Experiment Idea


PDA






lizziedog1
December 21, 2011, 10:55 PM
There are many threads here arguing about who makes the best dies. Some say a certain brand is easier to use. Some say a certain brand is more precise. But has anybody ever done an experment to test this?

Here is my idea.

You get several rifles that are accurate. Each in a different caliber. Then you reload ammo for each of them.

You reload the exact same components. The same bullet, seating depth, powder charge, and so on. But you reload different batches using different reloading dies.

You mark the cases, but the shooters will not know which rounds were reloaded with what dies. You let them shoot from a bench at one hundred yard paper targets.

Then you measure the groups.

Like I said, I don't know if this type of test has ever been done.

Who thinks that a test like this will result in significant differences in accuracy depending on the dies used? Who think the difference will be minimal? Who thinks you won' be able to measure any differences?

If you enjoyed reading about "Experiment Idea" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Fleet
December 21, 2011, 11:02 PM
I think the test would be a total waste of time, because the statistical sampling of the # of dies used from any one manufacturer isn't significant. You'll only use one set, out of how many thousands of sets that they make? Could be a Friday set, or a Wednesday set, or a new reamer set, or an old reamer set, no way to tell. To have information that means anything, you'd need to sample in the thousands.

lizziedog1
December 21, 2011, 11:14 PM
You have a point.

But with the way some folks here respond to die arguements you would think that even a small sample should produce marked differences.

Maybe there would be large, significant differences.

Afy
December 22, 2011, 08:53 AM
For my accuracy loads, I tend to go with Redding dies. All my dies are RCBS, Redding or Forrestor and in one instanse Hornady (8x60S).

For a couple of calibers like my .260 Rem and 6 BR I have dies from both Redding and RCBS and have not noticed any difference in accuracy. Then again they are both competition die sets.

243winxb
December 22, 2011, 09:01 AM
Test a FL die without firearms. After sizing, the measurements nearest SAAMI spec. wins. Also measure the neck diameter, before & after sizing, with and without the expander. The die that works the neck the least, wins. (bushing dies)

Fleet
December 22, 2011, 09:33 AM
Lizziedog1 said:

But with the way some folks here respond to die arguements you would think that even a small sample should produce marked differences.
I think a large part of this is that people tend to get married to certain things, for whatever reason. Blue is better than green is better than red is better than orange, with no real thought or reasoning behind it. It just is. It may be what they first started with, or what was initially recommended by a friend they trusted etc. For an interesting experiment, go ask someone to justify why they use brand x motor oil instead of brand y. You'll normally get an answer like "it's what my Dad used", and nothing more.

Striker Fired
December 22, 2011, 10:23 AM
I can't speak for others but my own experiance,I do like RCBS,why? Because when I first started it was one of the highest recomended brands,but I also do own and like Hornady,along with some Redding.My travel into trying my first Lee set(because so many seemed to stand behind them)resulted in not being able to size the 30-06 cases that I bought them for(the neck sizing surface in the die was real rough causing the cases to seize),ok,it happens,just one that slipped through QC. A call to Lee,I was told flat out "if I wanted the die to work I should use Lee lube" (even though I had tried every other lube,with no difference whatsoever).I took them back and the dealer ,he promply seized his case in that die using Lee lube,so ,not a lube issue.He traded me for a RCBS set and I was done sizing the 100 case in 20min,no issues.That is why I don't care for Lee.

kingmt
December 22, 2011, 11:19 AM
I have Lee & RCBS dies & both work as they should. I have dealt with both in customer service because of something I did wrong(broke)(my dad told me I could tare up a anvil & die is pretty close) & they both went out of there way to replace them + send other free parts I asked to pay for. Both have customer service that is second to none. I prefer Lee dies first because of there style of lock rings, second being there collet, third the deprimeing pin works better with crimped primers, forth is the price.

I am a Lee fan but I can't say the load better ammo only that they work more how I perfer them to. Not sizing the brass as much is a big + also. I always thought my RCBS dies sized the cases a little to small.

rcmodel
December 22, 2011, 12:04 PM
even a small sample should produce marked differences. The way each person holds his mouth when he adjusts the dies will make more difference then different brands of dies.

rc

lizziedog1
December 22, 2011, 12:45 PM
The way each person holds his mouth when he adjusts the dies will make more difference then different brands of dies.



Brilliant!!!;)

Kevin Rohrer
December 22, 2011, 01:26 PM
There is no "best". There is what works and what doesn't, although some are better than others.

bigedp51
December 22, 2011, 01:59 PM
The quality of your brass with the most important being case wall and neck thickness uniformity means more. A experienced reloader with a bad set of dies and the right measuring tools will assemble better ammunition than an inexperienced reloader with the best made dies on the market.

NOTE: More inaccurate reloaded ammunition is loaded with excess bullet run out, due to the expander button/decapping rod being off center when tightened down than "ANY" other cause. The second biggest error is over resized cases by setting them up as per the instructions and being adjusted too low for your rifles actual headspace.

I have a Lyman .223 FL die that pushes the shoulder back .004 further than my RCBS, Redding or Forster dies. This is where a cartridge headspace gauge like the RCBS Precision Mic or the Hornady Cartridge Headspace Gauge Kit comes in handy for setting up your dies.

YES, I have four sets of .223 dies it started with the Lyman dies because that was all that was in the sporting goods store at the time and progressed through RCBS, Redding and then a Forster bushing die set. (and yes I have too much time on my hands) :rolleyes:

If you enjoyed reading about "Experiment Idea" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!