ShotSpotter Gunfire Alert System


PDA






Whacked
December 22, 2011, 04:43 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/12/22/sniper-detectors-coming-to-americas-heartland/

ShotSpotter relies on wide-area acoustic surveillance and GPS technology to triangulate the source of gunshots. Sensors are fixed to buildings and poles to provide coverage over a fixed area. With audio-analysis software, it can identify whether a shooter is stationary or moving -- meaning police officers can be equipped with information on the speed and direction of, say, a vehicle from which a shot was fired.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/12/22/sniper-detectors-coming-to-americas-heartland/#ixzz1hIXnbu9e

Pretty interesting but I really wonder how effective it really is.
How does it handle suppressor equipped firearms?
What about shots fired inside a vehicle or structure
echo's from allyways etc.
what about fireworks? the nearby sensors may be able to detect the difference, but others, after the sound has rebounded a few times may record a false positive on gunfire.

If you enjoyed reading about "ShotSpotter Gunfire Alert System" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Ryanxia
December 22, 2011, 04:45 PM
I can just see the near future. Walking down the street chewing gum, blow a bubble and it pops, police show up thinking you fired a gun because their system (to protect you of course) went off. 20 minute interrogation ensues..

lateapex31
December 22, 2011, 04:46 PM
We have the same crap in most of the big dump cities in MA. Stringent gun laws and shot spotter system and yet still they have a problem with 'gun violence'. More knee jerk reactions to problems with people aimed at inanimate objects. I think the whole thing is a bunch of crap and the $ would be better spent on training and arming the good citizens....errr subjects of our state.

usmarine0352_2005
December 22, 2011, 04:47 PM
.

We've had it here for awhile.





It works well to show up to a scene where a guy fired a gun a short while ago but now he's gone. Or arriving and finding a body with no one around.

.

RightCoastBiased
December 22, 2011, 04:49 PM
We have it here in new haven and I've wondered about its effectiveness. I've looked for articles and it all seems very hush hush. I've talked to cops about it. Their responses range from indifferent to scathing. This is from rank and file to upper brass.

I'd be really interested to read some objective reports on shotspotter's effectiveness.

velojym
December 22, 2011, 04:52 PM
Sounds like a prime opportunity for monkeywrenchers to wreck the signal/noise ratio.

2WheelsGood
December 22, 2011, 04:58 PM
They're trying to bring it to Detroit too. And the fact that Detroit is flat broke doesn't seem to be stopping them.

Whacked
December 22, 2011, 05:00 PM
Just thought of this,

target practice for the 'bangers once they see the sensors
and more taxpayers $$ down the drain.

I see traffic cameras that get banged up and spraypainted over from time to time

Pyzik
December 22, 2011, 05:00 PM
Here in Michigan I know they have this installed in Flint. I don't live in the area and I am not LEO but I have heard it doesn't do much good.

The idea to install it in Detroit just got shot down a few weeks ago. Pun intended.

ETA: TwoWheelsGod, you got to it before me. At least I thought they scrapped the idea.

steveno
December 22, 2011, 05:02 PM
I believe that they just put some in Omaha.

mgmorden
December 22, 2011, 05:07 PM
Columbia SC implemented a similar system a few years ago. I spoke with some of the people in the IT department who did it and from what they've said it was actually pretty accurate. It was fine tuned enough that holidays didn't pose any problem as it could differentiate between fireworks and gunfire.

2WheelsGood
December 22, 2011, 05:10 PM
Here in Michigan I know they have this installed in Flint. I don't live in the area and I am not LEO but I have heard it doesn't do much good.

It's coming to Flint next year I believe. It's currently in Saginaw.

Pyzik
December 22, 2011, 05:15 PM
It's coming to Flint next year I believe. It's currently in Saginaw.
Well there you go. Clearly I have no idea what I am talking about.

psyork22
December 22, 2011, 06:00 PM
Author: EDITORIAL The York Dispatch
Date: July 30, 2010
Publication: York Dispatch, The (PA)

If York City's ShotSpotter worked as intended, the $600,000 gunfire detector system might be a powerful law enforcement tool, as well as a deterrent to violent criminals.

But it doesn't.

The finicky network of 40 sensors and eight cameras activated hundreds of times last year because of construction work, car backfires and even firecrackers -- but completely missed seven of that year's nine gunfire homicides.

Lots of data and articles from the York PA area that show the spotter is not worth the money. I could not link the article because I am not registered with YDR.com

JohnD13
December 22, 2011, 06:49 PM
They have it up and running in Troy,NY, but I have not heard how successfully. The demo for the system was special though. They fired an M1, at least it looked like one on TV, into a city truck full of sand, and surprise, the system picked it up! For the taxes we pay in NY, I hope it works.

belercous
December 22, 2011, 11:14 PM
St. Louis has this system in some areas for a couple of years now. No idea if it helps though.

velojym
December 22, 2011, 11:19 PM
...and if some kid sets off the system near your house, I'm pretty sure a lot of bureaucrats and their pet thugs will find that 'reasonable suspicion' and enough to search your house. Considering that we all probably commit felonies every day without even knowing it (even lawyers don't have the Federal code memorized in its entirety), there's no telling what sort of shenanigans could ensue... selective enforcement has a long, sleazy history with those types.

7.62 Nato
December 22, 2011, 11:26 PM
Here in Michigan I know they have this installed in Flint. I don't live in the area and I am not LEO but I have heard it doesn't do much good.

The idea to install it in Detroit just got shot down a few weeks ago. Pun intended.

ETA: TwoWheelsGod, you got to it before me. At least I thought they scrapped the idea.
What good will installing it do? You already can't get a police response calling 911. The only ones interested in installing it are the ones that will benifit directly. Follow the money. It's not about fighting crime.

Saakee
December 22, 2011, 11:50 PM
It's a great system in [metaphysical] Hollywood.

duck911
December 22, 2011, 11:55 PM
Politics, cost, and other newsquips aside, I can tell you that the system works. It works, and it works WELL.

--Duck911

Tim the student
December 23, 2011, 12:38 AM
Politics, cost, and other newsquips aside, I can tell you that the system works. It works, and it works WELL.

You seem to be pretty familiar with it. Can you enlighten us as to what it can actually do? How well does it actually learn?

For one thing, the article implies that it can determine the speed and direction that one solitary shot is fired from. I would think that it would need more than one to have any hope of doing that.

Twiki357
December 23, 2011, 01:29 AM
It was installed in some of the high crime/gang areas in Los Angeles a good 15+ years ago. There were a few news reports in the following months, but never heard anything after that. No idea how well in actually worked.

7.62 Nato
December 23, 2011, 01:35 AM
Politics, cost, and other newsquips aside, I can tell you that the system works. It works, and it works WELL.

--Duck911
But the system can only be as effective as the people running (using) it. It could be used to fight crime, or it could be used just to collect "statistics".

Jeff F
December 23, 2011, 01:59 AM
From what I heard quite awhile back is they can pinpoint where a shot came from to a 100 foot radius. Its probably even better then that with newer technology. I remember as a kid, screwing with the cops in our town with a gross of bird bombs and a few packs of cigarettes. Had em going around in circles while we were sitting in taco bell eating burrito supremes.

Steve Raacke
December 23, 2011, 02:25 AM
They are here in Baton Rouge and work fairly well. BRPD and Sheriff's Office respond to multiple Shotspotter reports each night. Some are false alarms such as a resturant employee letting a dumpster lid slam behind a business but many are true reports. The problem, as someone else already posted, is that often officers will arrive to find nothing in the area.

Tim the student
December 23, 2011, 02:35 AM
How often do they find anyone just hanging out after having shot at someone? Has one of these ever been involved in an arrest and conviction that wouldn't have taken place without one being there?

olafhardtB
December 23, 2011, 02:45 AM
sounds like a good idea to me and all kind of cameras to. There will be bugs to work out. I don't see how a person has a right to privacy to something the do in public.

Steve Raacke
December 23, 2011, 03:15 AM
Tim,
The system is good for telling the officers WHERE a shot was fired. "Respond to the area of North and Acadian. Shotspotter reports 2 gunshots fired from the rear of the house on the northeast corner of this intersection." With that sort of accuracy responding officers can go right ot the area instead of depending on citizens calling in reports with vauge info about a gunshot "somewhere" in the neighborhood. If an officer is near the location he has a better chance of getting there in time to see someone running away form the scene and apprehending them. No, it's not likly that a shooter will just blast away at someone but with Shotspotter the officers know where to go and the criminals know that if they fire a gun there's a good chance the shotspotters will pinpoint the location and in a matter of a few seconds a broadcast is going to go out to every police car in the area. They know the cameras are going to spin over to the sound of the gunfire and be vidoe taping everything within sight. That's a deterrence right there.

2WheelsGood
December 23, 2011, 12:01 PM
With that sort of accuracy responding officers can go right ot the area instead of depending on citizens calling in reports with vauge info about a gunshot "somewhere" in the neighborhood.

I totally agree. In a place like Detroit where gunfire is so common, people usually don't bother calling it in until they find a body.

If this helps get thugs who use guns illegally off the street, I see no problem (other than cost). If nothing, that helps us. The harder it is for criminals to use guns for illegal activities, the better responsible gun owners look.

As for the privacy issue... I don't get the argument. These aren't microphones that are recording everyone's conversations, and they're not taking pictures. In fact, unless you fire a gun, the system is completely ignorant.

And velojym, how is it worse than the current system? If anything the accuracy will make them less likely to have reason to search random places than they do now.

I really think other than the money factor (and that is a big one), there isn't much to worry about.

eye5600
December 23, 2011, 01:28 PM
because of construction work, car backfires and even firecrackers

Car backfires? Cars don't backfire anymore. Someone's quoting some old detective story.

velojym
December 23, 2011, 01:50 PM
It isn't the system so much as the people running it. Think 1984.

Libs run around tearing their hair and gnashing their teeth about how guns are evil (well, unless they're being wielded for their own ends), and we try to explain the error in their logic. Well... that error happens in a lot more areas than just firearms. Almost anything that is controlled, banned, or otherwise demonized is usually done so due to the actions of a few unwise individuals and not the object/material involved, or even the majority of those enjoying it.

On the "bright" side, a real tyrant needs as much local information as possible in order to put down a messy uprising. "Total Information Awareness" or something like that. Hitler woulda loved it. As would King George.

FIVETWOSEVEN
December 23, 2011, 04:37 PM
I don't see why you guys would be concerned unless you are the people that shoot in the air to ring in the new year. These are being put in Cities where there are no outdoor shooting ranges so you wouldn't be shooting. It's not like these can see who owns guns and who doesn't.

2WheelsGood
December 23, 2011, 04:54 PM
Hitler woulda loved it. As would King George.
You're giving the system way too much credit. It's not tracking guns, it's tracking gunshots. Huge difference. How exactly could Hitler have used it to collect all the guns? Of course, in the end he didn't need it. The sheep did it for him.

There are plenty of real things for law-abiding citizens to worry about when it comes to the 2nd Amendment, but I really can't see how this is one of them.

PedalBiker
December 23, 2011, 05:05 PM
Car backfires? Cars don't backfire anymore. Someone's quoting some old detective story.

They don't?

A guy driving an older picklup went down the road just two days ago banging away with a backfire every 1/2 minute or so. I don't know what was wrong with the vehicle, but you could smell the unburned gas as well. Hopefully he can get it fixed pronto.

Even newer cars can have computer or injector or valve problems.

velojym
December 23, 2011, 07:23 PM
Oh, I'm not saying it does track guns. I'm just saying that when you want to *rule* over a population, you want as much information as possible. If they thought they could get away with TSA portals on every street... how many politicians do you think would turn their noses up?

2WheelsGood
December 23, 2011, 09:06 PM
If they thought they could get away with TSA portals on every street... how many politicians do you think would turn their noses up?

I agree with that. But I guess there's no way around the risks that come with giving the government power. I mean, unless you're a true anarchist, you must believe that the police and military play a role in a well-run free society. Yet the military and the police - just like this ShotSpotter system - could be used by an out of control government looking to control its people. Hence the 2nd Amendment.

The Sarge
December 23, 2011, 09:20 PM
All you gotta do is follow the barking dogs.

Hossfly68
December 23, 2011, 10:16 PM
Ok, which one of you guys did I hear talking about this on Andrew Wilkow's show today?

eye5600
December 24, 2011, 02:20 PM
A guy driving an older picklup went down the road just two days ago banging away with a backfire every 1/2 minute or so. I don't know what was wrong with the vehicle, but you could smell the unburned gas as well.

LOL. Happened to me with a Volvo 144, back about 1971. Something was not quite right in the distributor, and when the car revved too high, the voltage in the capacitor got high enough for the spark to jump to ground, rather to the spark plug.

Still, the "was that a gunshot, I thought it was a backfire" business hasn't made much sense since the 1950's.

Shovelhead
December 24, 2011, 05:40 PM
What ever happened to a cop on patrol?

This system seems to me to be just another way to 'police' an area from a safe bunker miles away and send the cops in to a crime scene long after the bad guys are gone, to get the police tape up and the chalk outline round the victim's body before the media shows up.

cassandrasdaddy
December 24, 2011, 08:05 PM
i hate to interject reality but its been used to corroborate stories as well as help give starting point for searching for weapons abandoned after a crime. its apparently accurate enough to tell caliber. one case i remember was a cop returned fire on a kid who had stolen the cops minibike. the kids gun vanished from crime scene but shotspotter backed up his account on number of shots etc.

cassandrasdaddy
December 24, 2011, 09:07 PM
http://www.shotspotter.com/resources/case-studies

Hossfly68
December 24, 2011, 09:20 PM
As long as it's city,county or state doing it, no problem. If the Federal govt ever does it, then there's a problem.

Neverwinter
December 25, 2011, 03:13 AM
As long as it's city,county or state doing it, no problem. If the Federal govt ever does it, then there's a problem.
Why? Does doing so violate the Tenth Amendment?

Sent using Tapatalk

bottom shelf
December 25, 2011, 09:35 AM
Car backfires? Cars don't backfire anymore.

But motorcycles sure do.

Black_Sheep
December 25, 2011, 10:24 AM
Minneapolis has them too, it helps Police locate the bodies in a timely manner...

FIVETWOSEVEN
December 26, 2011, 01:53 PM
just like this ShotSpotter system - could be used by an out of control government looking to control its people. Hence the 2nd Amendment.

These are being put into cities, the only time you would shoot you gun is in a self defense situation and you would want the police there as fast as possible. The only people to regularly shoot guns in the city are criminals. Are you a criminal?

If you enjoyed reading about "ShotSpotter Gunfire Alert System" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!