home made laminate stock


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matt 7mm
December 22, 2011, 11:25 PM
I have a left hand savage 116 300 win mag.I am considering trying to make my own laminate stock by glueing some birch plywood together for a blank then cutting the stock out of that.was curious if anyone has tried that sort of thing and how it worked out and what sort of glue would be best.I have made a stock out of solid maple for a savage 93 22wmr but never tried a laminate or a heavy recoiling centerfire before.

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Ranger30-06
December 23, 2011, 12:31 AM
That sounds interesting. In addition to gluing, I would run at least a half dozen 1/2" or 3/4" dowel rods through the core boards to make sure it stays together and doesn't send a receiver through your shoulder. Let us know how it works out!

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
December 23, 2011, 01:09 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IazSIAqvoM&feature=bf_next&list=HL1324616233&lf=mh_lolz

I'm working on the same thing here, only, for another rifle. That dowel idea is pretty nice. I might do the same. Or find a way to finagle them in there, lol!

matt 7mm
December 23, 2011, 01:19 AM
that dowel thing sounds like a good idea! thats my biggest fear is the stock delaminating! Im not sure if a regular wood glue like you would get at a place like home depot would do the job or not

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
December 23, 2011, 01:22 AM
I'm making my first attempt with Titebond III. I'll let you know how it goes. Or you could keep up with it through the thread entitled "Would You Like to See These Stocks on the Market?"

Gdbyrd
December 23, 2011, 01:31 AM
I wouldn't use plywood though, unless it's a marine variety. Too many voids in the wood. If you look around for DIY 10/22 stocks, there are a variety of threads on rimfirecentral about guys making their own stocks, some of which are laminates. It's a LOT of work, but not impossible(It's impossible for me though I will admit, hehe).

Good luck and keep us updated on your progress.

Ranger30-06
December 23, 2011, 10:46 AM
that dowel thing sounds like a good idea! thats my biggest fear is the stock delaminating! Im not sure if a regular wood glue like you would get at a place like home depot would do the job or not
I would skip the traditional wood glue and go with the heavy duty stuff you can get that you put in a caulk gun to apply. That stuff is really, really, strong. Combined with the dowels, I think you'll be fine!

Like another poster said though, skip the plywood. There are other types of sheet wood available that in addition to being a little denser, will also look neater.

doubleh
December 23, 2011, 11:29 AM
IF you do the job correctly Titebond III will give you a joint that is stronger than the wood you are gluing. I've done four stocks, two from plywood and two from 3/4" boards. Two were glued with Titebond and two with Gorilla Glue. I can't tell any difference between the two glues except the cost difference. You really can't tell any difference between the laminated stocks and a solid wood one when working them. One plywood stock was finished clear and I filled the few voids well enough that they aren't noticable. The other was painted so I used body putty on the few voids because it'd much quicker and easier than the other way.

I used no dowels except to attach the fore end tip and grip cap that I used on a couple of the stocks and that is standard procedure. I don't believe you need dowels for strength any more with a laminate stock than you do with a solid stock. Use a lot of clamps and get them TIGHT. That is very important with either glue.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
December 23, 2011, 01:30 PM
IF you do the job correctly Titebond III will give you a joint that is stronger than the wood you are gluing. I've done four stocks, two from plywood and two from 3/4" boards. Two were glued with Titebond and two with Gorilla Glue. I can't tell any difference between the two glues except the cost difference. You really can't tell any difference between the laminated stocks and a solid wood one when working them. One plywood stock was finished clear and I filled the few voids well enough that they aren't noticable. The other was painted so I used body putty on the few voids because it'd much quicker and easier than the other way.



It's good to hear of some success in this venture. I'll be doing my thing today, getting 'em clamped and what not.

Ranger30-06
December 23, 2011, 03:13 PM
I used no dowels except to attach the fore end tip and grip cap that I used on a couple of the stocks and that is standard procedure. I don't believe you need dowels for strength any more with a laminate stock than you do with a solid stock. Use a lot of clamps and get them TIGHT. That is very important with either glue.

While dowels may not be absolutely necessary in the beginning, I would but them in for longevity's sake. Laminate wood is a lot more susceptible to warping and cracking with moisture than any hardwood. Besides, drilling holes for them and tapping/gluing them in is a 1/2 hour process at a very small additional cost that will be better for you in the long run.

doubleh
December 23, 2011, 04:37 PM
Actually laminate, aka plywood, is much more warp resistant than solid wood.

Rutlands doesn put dowels in the laminated wood sheets they make and the laminated stock manufacturers don't add dowels either.

Ranger30-06
December 23, 2011, 05:35 PM
Actually laminate, aka plywood, is much more warp resistant than solid wood.

Rutlands doesn put dowels in the laminated wood sheets they make and the laminated stock manufacturers don't add dowels either.
Well honestly in experience with guitars, laminate can be better or worse than hardwood, all depending on the finish applied and the conditions it is subject to. If laminate wood is warm and quickly subjected to cold air it'll pull right apart where it is glued together.


Like I said in my last post, It's an extra 1/2 hour of work that can very well prolong the life of the stock. Your call though :)

Fred in Wisc
December 23, 2011, 05:53 PM
The plywood to look for is BS1088 Meranti. It's used for boat building. No gaps in the layers, rot resistant and beautiful. Ain't cheap though.

I'd glue it with epoxy. Not the kind in the little tubes, get some bulk stuff it seems way stronger. System 3 Slivertip is generally regarded as the best stuff.

They make yachts out of the stuff above and they last for decades in the ocean. Should be fine on a stock.

Cheap guy thought: How about a Microlam beam? Already laminated up for you.

dfariswheel
December 23, 2011, 08:09 PM
I have a friend who makes his own laminated wood for non-gun projects.

He uses a standard water-proof wood glue applied in a smooth, even coat over the entire surface.
One trick he uses to get maximum strength is a vacuum clamp system.

He applies the glue to the sheets of wood then quickly puts them in an extremely thick, heavy plastic bag. He hooks up an air pump and pumps the air out of the bag.
The vacuum presses the wood together much harder than any mechanical wood clamp.
He lets the glue set up fully and has a water proof really tough laminate that won't de-laminate even when pretty wet.
Certainly no more than an AK-47 laminated stock which aren't known for coming apart.

BrocLuno
December 24, 2011, 01:00 AM
TightBond III is impressive stuff. It's usually stronger than the wood being glued, once it's fully cured. And, I agree with the cross dowel idea too.

What we don't know is how well the original thermo set plywood adhesive or the TightBond III will stand up to gun cleaning chemicals over time. So, when the stock blank is shaped, trimmed and fitted, I'd soak the whole thing in penetrating epoxy to really seal the pores and keep all the gun chemicals out of it.

TrueOil or any number of varnishes will bond to penetrating epoxy and they will produce a fine finish right over it. I've done this on boat bright work and on gun stocks and it works fine :)

And about the cross dowels - it can't hurt. the other course is cross bolts which get installed on all sorts of magnums and anything bigger than an 06. Point is spreading the loads around is a good idea as long as you have the time and materials.

exavid
December 24, 2011, 01:48 AM
Strength wise I'd use Titebond or epoxy. I've built two wooded ultralight aircraft (Fisher FP303) using both types of glue. In large area joints Titebond and in very small joint using T-88 epoxy. Either is plenty strong for a gunstock. There's nowhere near the stress on a gunstock as there is on a wing spar. I'd second the suggestion to use marine plywood, that's the only kind that uses full plugs in the core wood. A-C grade stuff will have voids and holes are only filled with wood putty nowadays. Best bet if you really want to have an unusual looking stock with the maximum strength and warp resistance possible with wood is to use Aircraft Plywood. That is made of very thin laminations with no holes and glued to pass the one hour boiling test. It isn't cheap you would look great. Google Aircraft Spruce and Specialities to look at the stuff. The most important thing about laminating wood is the layup and clamping. You don't want a thick layer of glue between layers, just enough to insure wetting out the surface. A thin layer on each face of the joint is the best way. using a wide putty knife or some other such tool to spread the glue to eliminate any thick or bare spots is important. It's vitally important to provide even strong clamping. Use lots of clamps with strips of hardwood to spread out the pressure. You want to see some glue, not much but some squeeze out all around the layup which proves proper wetting out. With aircraft plywood you could design internal spaces like lightening holes to make the stock lighter without sacrificing strength. It would be necessary to keep the sides thick enough so as not to sand away through all the wood in the thinner areas. Sounds like an interesting project to me. With decent lamination there's no need for cross dowels, they would only help provide a path to wick up moisture. You've never seen those in a custom laminated stock. They aren't used in wooden aircraft propellers which are under a lot more stress than a gunstock.

bejay
December 24, 2011, 03:24 AM
maybe it defeats the purpose of you making it, but have you considered just buying a blank from boyds or maybe even an a uninleted stock if you have the glue and good marine plywood already it might be worth a shot but if you have to go buy it might as well just buy a blank made for it.

Moose458
December 24, 2011, 10:33 AM
maybe it defeats the purpose of you making it, but have you considered just buying a blank from boyds or maybe even an a uninleted stock if you have the glue and good marine plywood already it might be worth a shot but if you have to go buy it might as well just buy a blank made for it.
+1 This makes a lot more sense. It will be cheaper and look/work better.

Still Shooting
December 24, 2011, 02:07 PM
My experience is with milled hardwood; specifically, ash and mahogany in 3/16" thickness (boat parts). For steam-bent tillers, I was able to get hold of some 2-part Weldwood Resorcinol, and laid in a stock of the stuff. It was originally developed in WW II and used to glue up the plywood PT boat hulls. The stuff is water- and oilproof, has a color similar to mahogany, and sticks like grim death!

VenisonGitr
December 24, 2011, 02:21 PM
I cannot imagine why you would want to use these plywoods. Unless you find something that uses the same species all the way through, you will never know if it is sound or not until you have hours of sweat into it. Also, the laminated stocks have all plies running in the same direction-not perpendicular like in plywoods. It will suck to chisel against the grain, and the glues in plywood are hell on cutting edges. If I were to try it, I would make my own lamination of wood I knew was good and all plies running the length of the stock. At that point, unless I was gluing up something exceptionally unique, it would be more cost effective to just buy a blank of nice walnut....IMHO.

win71
December 26, 2011, 12:45 PM
I was able to get hold of some 2-part Weldwood Resorcinol,It is still available. I use it on both boats and furniture. Mixed properly and used on a tight joint it is tuff as nails.

Marine plywood is good stuff but I would not use it for gunstock work for the reasons already stated. Pictured is 3/8" mahogany 7 ply marine plywood. No interior voids and will take quite heavy bending stress.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w140/win71/portsidepannel001.jpg

kb58
December 26, 2011, 06:24 PM
He applies the glue to the sheets of wood then quickly puts them in an extremely thick, heavy plastic bag. He hooks up an air pump and pumps the air out of the bag. The vacuum presses the wood together much harder than any mechanical wood clamp.
It's called vacuum-bagging and is common when creating composite parts. What vacuum-bagging does is apply a uniform pressure to the entire piece, but since it's a vacuum, it applies only about 15 psi. So technically, clamps can apply more pressure, but it's only localized. For large parts, vacuum-bagging is the only way to go due to how many clamps would otherwise be required, but for small part's its not as big a deal.

ball3006
December 26, 2011, 09:58 PM
Plywood will not last as a gun stock. You need to laminate solid wood. I learned this in gunsmith school a long time ago.....chris3

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