Shiny brass doesn't shoot better but......


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usnmars
December 23, 2011, 10:58 AM
It seems like it may last longer. I am anal about my reloads and the guys laugh at me at the range because my brass supposedly could win a beauty contest. I get told all the time that shiny brass doesn't shoot any better than dull. So I did a little test, I made a couple of 7.5 Swiss reloads. One batch was just wiped down with no tumble or polish then loaded. The other batch was prepped with my OCD polish. All cases were trimmed to the EXACT length prior to loading had the EXACT powder charge and the EXACT bullet and COAL. I went shootin yesterday and here are the results. The clean brass held a uniform length and only stretched a negligible .003. The dirty brass stretched .008. The stretch was pretty much consistent on all cases so I just averaged them. So my thoughts are that maybe the dirty cases "gripped" the chamber walls and stretched a hair on extraction? I really am stumped on this one but it seems with some expensive brass calibers it may be worth polishing them up so they dont stretch as much and your brass will last longer. Whats your thoughts on this?

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Grumulkin
December 23, 2011, 11:17 AM
Make no apologies. I also like bling.

I'll bet my brass is prettier than yours.

Walkalong
December 23, 2011, 11:17 AM
Like oiling/lubing cases. I would think that yes, the cleaner slicker (Especially when using polishing agents that leave a bit of wax on the cases) brass moves back towards the breech face/bolt a little more than drier, stickier, "dirty", thus stretching a bit less. Seems feasible.

Striker Fired
December 23, 2011, 11:21 AM
Did the some of the brass act like a greased round and alowed the brass to stretch more? I think several more tests would be required to come to a definative conclusion.
I also like my brass to be clean and shinny.Just my preference.

GCBurner
December 23, 2011, 11:27 AM
Clean brass makes it easier to spot cracks and potential case failures; the cracks show up as dirty lines on the shiny case.

gamestalker
December 23, 2011, 11:41 AM
Although I haven't done any comparisons per say, but this might be kind of contrary to your results, but in opinion only. I don't use polish on my brass, I just tumble it until it's completely clean and new looking. With dirty brass, I would think there could be soot and other surface residue including case lube residue that could interfere with necessary case sieze during firing, which I feel would increase case stretch? Where as a clean surface that is completely free of any residue, including polish that may even transform to some extent when pressures and heat present during firing, may interfere with case sieze. Yes, no, maybe?

Hogpauls
December 23, 2011, 11:54 AM
I'm in the same boat. Shiny brass make me :D. Shiny brass also makes inspection easier, dies cleaner and makes for faster aquisition with the sun shining off them when they hit the ground.

flashhole
December 23, 2011, 02:30 PM
Clean shinny brass puts less wear on the dies ... plus it looks nice. One of the things that pays big dividends for rifle load accuracy is cleaning the inside of the case neck. Greatly reduces runout when using a FL sizing die.

Grumulkin
December 23, 2011, 03:52 PM
I use stainless steel media to clean my brass. Talk about CLEAN!

i did one time check for accuracy with different cleaning methods and found that different cleaning methods can result in different bullet impact points.

blarby
December 23, 2011, 04:05 PM
The heck it doesn't !

AlliedArmory
December 24, 2011, 03:31 AM
Couple of the RSO's at my local range were asking how my ammo got so shiny lol! I told them stainless media.

Who knows if it is more accurate (I doubt it), but sure looks pretty.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5189/5756179099_5849cc3eb9_z.jpg

Uniquedot
December 24, 2011, 03:50 AM
Clean brass makes it easier to spot cracks and potential case failures; the cracks show up as dirty lines on the shiny case.

This is the only plus IMO for having shiny brass.

FROGO207
December 24, 2011, 08:46 AM
Pride in ownership of any item is paramount and brass that shines is ALWAYS a pint of pride when going to the range. I will state to others that my ammo is reloaded by me and is more accurate. Then proceed to show them that it without a doubt, is.:D Some of the brass that I reload over and over at the range to develop a load will not get cleaned nor will a pile of it that I will use and load and use the next day. All other brass will be cleaned before reloading, besides the reloaders conduct code of ethics requires it.:neener:

If I think that the brass shoots better when it shines like the sun then it DOES shoot better.:D

35 Whelen
December 24, 2011, 09:30 AM
I always throw my brass in the tumbler after sizing. One, to shine it, and two to get the case lube off it. I too like shiny brass. My 7.5 Swiss brass I try to get very bright as I shoot High Power and at the end of rapid fire strings it's much easier to find shiny brass than dull.

I've been told by some of the guys with whom I compete, that technically brass that's a little dingy or dirty is actually easier on the rifle because when fired it grips the walls of the chamber better thus decreasing bolt thrust.

35W

cfullgraf
December 24, 2011, 09:40 AM
If clean and shiny brass makes you feel better about your reloads, you will shoot better. Therefore, your clean and shiny reloads are more accurate for you.

I like my brass clean and shiny.

Captaingyro
December 24, 2011, 09:50 AM
I have a Thumlers waiting under the tree. The stainless pins are on the bench, ready to go. (BTW, the folks at PelletsLLC couldn't be any nicer, or better to work with).

I don't much care if shiny cases shoot better or not...I like good looking guns and good looking ammo. Homely women can be just as enthusiastic as beautiful ones (don't ask me how I know), but given the choice...

dnmccoy
December 24, 2011, 09:53 AM
You didnt mention but did you trim the dirty brass? I would figure if you didnt trim it that would cause variances as well

mmorris
December 24, 2011, 10:33 AM
All cases were trimmed to the EXACT length prior to loading

OP first message.

flashhole
December 24, 2011, 10:35 AM
.... besides the reloaders conduct code of ethics requires it.

It's the code of the west ... south ... east ... and north ... it's the code. Everyone has to have a code they can live by ... even reloaders.

dnmccoy
December 24, 2011, 10:36 AM
I thought he was refering to his "OCD" case prep group, not both

rondog
December 24, 2011, 11:13 AM
Shiny brass makes me happy, that's all that matters to me.

amlevin
December 24, 2011, 11:20 AM
That's why I use the Stainless Media now. I don't worry about crud buildup inside the case affecting powder capacity or burn.

Every case is a "fresh case".

jcwit
December 24, 2011, 11:59 AM
Pride in ownership of any item is paramount and brass that shines is ALWAYS a pint of pride when going to the range. I will state to others that my ammo is reloaded by me and is more accurate. Then proceed to show them that it without a doubt, is. Some of the brass that I reload over and over at the range to develop a load will not get cleaned nor will a pile of it that I will use and load and use the next day. All other brass will be cleaned before reloading, besides the reloaders conduct code of ethics requires it.

If I think that the brass shoots better when it shines like the sun then it DOES shoot better.
__________________


My thoughts precisely.

ljnowell
December 24, 2011, 01:10 PM
I dont care what anyone thinks, I like my brass to be super shiny and look like new. I know a lot of guys that say "its too much work." Thats just plain lazy.

rondog
December 24, 2011, 01:28 PM
You guys that use the stainless and a rotary tumbler...it really works that well?

Only thing really holding me back is I don't know how much brass the Thumler's Model B will handle at once, with the water and media too. I'm very interested, but if it will only do a couple hundred at once, seems like a lot of time. How much can you really do at one time?

Master Blaster
December 24, 2011, 01:31 PM
I take pride in my ammo and I always polish my brass till it shines.

918v
December 24, 2011, 02:26 PM
You guys that use the stainless and a rotary tumbler...it really works that well?

Only thing really holding me back is I don't know how much brass the Thumler's Model B will handle at once, with the water and media too. I'm very interested, but if it will only do a couple hundred at once, seems like a lot of time. How much can you really do at one time?


It will do 200 9mm. I tumble them overnight and they come out looking unfired. 4 hours is not enough. Seven seems ideal, but I sleep more than that.

gspn
December 24, 2011, 03:40 PM
What are you guys using to get your brass clean? A quick look around shows me vibratory/media rigs, rotary with stainless pins and liquid, ultrasonic...maybe more.

I have a vibratory tumber with corn cob media that really doesn't do anything other than get big dirt off the outside of the brass...it never comes out shiny (although i might need ot get new media).

I like the look of the shiny brass but when I read about draining liquid, then rinsing, then drying on a towel it sounds like a lot of time invested just to get it shiny.

Besides buying new brass...what is the fastest and most convenient way to get your brass shiny? Or is there no easy way?

cfullgraf
December 24, 2011, 03:52 PM
For dry cleaning, I generally use walnut shells. For cleaning, just he walnet shells, for polishing, I add some polish. Generally only the outside gets polished as the insdie will still be blackened.

I think corn cob cleans better than walnut shells and walnut shells polishes better but I might have that backwards.

Wet tumbling with stainles steel pins will clean and polish the cse like new both inside and outside. Even the primer pockets are cleaned. The case looks brand new.

Wet tumbling is a bit more labor intensive. With 15 pound capaciyt Thumler's Tumbler you only get to do about two pounds of cases. The rest is water and stainless steel pins.

A bit more labor intensive and the cases are out of service for longer due to drying time. I am still woring on reliable, and dry, way to separte the pin from the cases without losing too many pins.

Dry tumbling does an adequate job the quickest not counting the actual tumbling time.

gspn
December 24, 2011, 04:07 PM
Would a magnet work?

GLOOB
December 24, 2011, 04:14 PM
It will do 200 9mm. I tumble them overnight and they come out looking unfired. 4 hours is not enough. Seven seems ideal, but I sleep more than that.
Uggh. That's a long time for a small load of brass. If I leave that many 9mm cases in my vibratory tumbler while I sleep, they come out way shinier than steel pins can ever achieve.

The pluses for stainless steel are
1. primer pockets and interior of brass are cleaned
2. don't need to replace media
3. no dust. I would rather have a wet tumbler in my basement/garage than a vibratory. I leave my vibratory outside.
4. Even when shiny, handling of regular tumbled brass leaves dust/residue on your hands. Stainless tumbled brass is truly clean.

Pluses for vibratory:
1. can be used to dry cases
2. My cheap Berry's tumbler can do more or less exactly 700 9mm cases when loaded to capacity.
3. Can wax the brass so it stays shinier, longer.
4. No pins stuck in flashholes!!!
5. Don't have to dry cases after tumbling!

jcwit
December 24, 2011, 04:17 PM
I was thinking the same thing. I would think these rare earth magnets "Neodymium" should work. I know for a fact they stick to any S/S knife I own.

I'll quit now as any more thinking on my part will only cause harm.

4. Even when shiny, handling of regular tumbled brass leaves dust/residue on your hands. Stainless tumbled brass is truly clean.

Hey wait! Only time I've EVER experienced this is when way to much polish is placed into the media or when the media itself is long since worn out.

Walkalong
December 24, 2011, 04:32 PM
I would think these rare earth magnets "Neodymium" should workDepends on the quality of the SS. I have some my rare earth magnet won't attract in the least, I have some that the magnet will hold lightly, and some that slams against the magnet it pulls it so hard. I wonder what the pins are made of. Someone should be able to tell us if a magnet will attract them.

Only time I've EVER experienced this is when way to much polish is placed into the media or when the media itself is long since worn out. Yep, or you let it get too dry. A sprinkle of water here and there will fix that.

JohnM
December 24, 2011, 04:40 PM
The way to rinse and recover that SS media is through a big screen mesh into another tub with water. Then you have your media captured safely in a bucket without loss.
An old food drier works great for drying cases. I tried it out, works like a top.

I was going to try that stuff since I already had an old antique Thumlers rotary, but finally decided, why?
Walnut does all I need, no sense in going all fancy.

918v
December 24, 2011, 05:13 PM
Uggh. That's a long time for a small load of brass. If I leave that many 9mm cases in my vibratory tumbler while I sleep, they come out way shinier than steel pins can ever achieve.

It's not about the shine, but about being clean inside and out. Wet tumbling gives you new brass essentially. It has a better purchase on the bullet. You will see smaller ES numbers.

Canuck-IL
December 24, 2011, 08:27 PM
I've found 3/4 gal in the Thumler Model B does as good a job as a full gal - both run for 4 hours. Here's a table with some common calibers to calculate the brass it'll hold, using the 15# suggested max weight.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e346/Canuck-IL/Thumler_brass.jpg

With 3/4 gal H2O, you can load 3.75 lbs of brass ...

/Bryan

cfullgraf
December 24, 2011, 08:46 PM
Some stainless is magnetic, some is not.

300 series stainless is not magnetic. 400 series stainless is magnetic.

I am not sure off hand what kind of stainless the pins are. I have not really paid attention.

Shrinkmd
December 25, 2011, 01:07 AM
I'll have to try the 3/4 gallon method and see how it comes out.

I am definitely hooked on the stainless steel method. No more wondering if the primer popped out when resizing, and it looks like new ammo. Nothing like taking disgusting, mud caked range pickups and turning them new again.

I've also discovered that less is more with the lemishine and dawn detergent.

The simplest way to dry the cases? Big fluffy towel. After you shake off as much water as possible from whatever colander you are using, then dump the cases on one end of the towel, fold it over and rub them back and forth. Then open the towel and pour them to the other, dry end of the towel. Then fold the other dry half over and rub them again for a bit. By the time your next load is done (4 or 5 hours) the cases are dry enough not to get weird water stain spots all over. Except maybe on the inside or in a primer pocket, but it's good enough. No heat lamps or other energy using devices.

jbradley
January 21, 2012, 10:14 PM
I have the Tumbler's Model B and love it.

I am doing some testing for a company that specializes in media (Yes it is a known company here on the board).

In my testing, I have gotten down to only using a Nyquil cap of the compound (think it is 30ml), and about 20 ounces, or just a little more of water.

I have actually ran at least 500 cases of 9mm with no problem.

Time tests on the first compound were run from 15 min to 10 hours and saw no significant improvement after 2 hours.
I have to run the same test on what looks like the compound they will go into production with as it seems there may be a differece in the results.

Coming from the jewelry industry and using magnetic tumblers (also wet method), the smaller amount of water seemed really odd at first. For me, the results have sold me on it.

Seedtick
January 21, 2012, 11:26 PM
Thanks John, that sounds pretty good.

Keep us updated.

Seedtick

:)

cfullgraf
January 21, 2012, 11:34 PM
You guys that use the stainless and a rotary tumbler...it really works that well?

Only thing really holding me back is I don't know how much brass the Thumler's Model B will handle at once, with the water and media too. I'm very interested, but if it will only do a couple hundred at once, seems like a lot of time. How much can you really do at one time?

With wet tumbling with stainless steel pins, the cases really come out looking like new inside and out. Yes, they are that clean, I mean really, really clean. Inside, outside and primer pockets.

The offset is that wet tumbling is more labor intensive and slower (smaller batches) than dry tumbling. I find I have to run the wet tumbler for 4 hours plus to get the cases clean, although I do not wet tumble every cycle so my cases are very dirty. After tumbling, the cases have to be rinsed and dried.

With dry tumbling, the outside of the cases are clean and bright, but the insides still show some powder blackening.

For wet tumbling, the Thunbler tumbler will hold about two pounds of cases for each cycle.

1SOW
January 22, 2012, 01:33 AM
For pistol rounds, I've convinced myself shiny slippery brass performs smoother in the mags and feeds better into the chamber.

I find ways to further justify anything I like.

Does washing and waxing your car make it get better gas mileage and go faster? It works that way for aircraft. :D

Fishslayer
January 22, 2012, 01:45 AM
Shiny brass makes me happy, that's all that matters to me.


Mmmmmm.... Ammo Pr0n! :D

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn215/THE_Fishslayer/OSR/Ammo%20Pr0n/100_1451_edited.jpg

Arkansas Paul
January 22, 2012, 02:11 AM
One of the things that pays big dividends for rifle load accuracy is cleaning the inside of the case neck. Greatly reduces runout when using a FL sizing die.


I always do this, but never knew if it actually helped anything or not. Good to know.


I dont care what anyone thinks, I like my brass to be super shiny and look like new. I know a lot of guys that say "its too much work." Thats just plain lazy.


I agree. It's really no work at all. Turn the tumbler on. Come back in 2-3 hours and turn it off. If that's too much work for you, maybe you should just go watch tv or something.

Dnaltrop
January 22, 2012, 05:04 AM
I'm not lazy, I just don't want tumbler dust in my limited areas. :D

Ultrasonic using vinegar and baking soda solutions has worked wonderfully for me.

http://www.6mmbr.com/ultrasonic.html using this fellow's "Cheap and Clean" method. takes under an hour each batch. I can squeeze 50 .45 colts into my small cleaner.

I can't see myself in them but they squeak when you touch them. I usually load them 3 times before running the cycles again. They get a good wipedown otherwise before they are run through the dies.

Sport45
January 22, 2012, 05:13 AM
Shiny brass doesn't shoot better but......

It seems like it may last longer.

It lasts longer for me. The shiny stuff is easier to find in the grass than the tarnished brown cases. Someday I may have to try out the wet SS polishing...

XxBulletBendeRXx
January 22, 2012, 11:53 AM
I like my Brass Shined up Nice when time permits.. No tumbler here, I just clean with soap and vinegar, then hand polish my "match" loads anyhow,... When in need of a couple boxes loaded up for a quickie to the range.. dull is ok!! Shinny is preferred

amlevin
January 22, 2012, 12:08 PM
For the amount of water to use with the SS pins, my Sidewinder Tumbler only holds about 1/2 gallon of water. I load 5# of pins, 150 pieces of .308 Brass, 1 Tbsp. Dawn, and 1/4 Tsp of Lemi-Shine. After 4 hours the brass is ready for the next steps. I shake the brass dry after separating and rinsing, then trim while slightly damp. Something I can do while the brass is still slightly damp.

gamestalker
January 22, 2012, 02:29 PM
My purposes for keeping my brass looking good has little to do with appearance. It makes inspection after each shot easier to spot issues. I also don't use anything on my brass to polish it. I like my brass 100% free of anything that could interfere with case seize, especially since I load with slow burning powders and upper end pressures. I also wipe the outside of my brass off with a clean cotton patch with pure acetone to make sure it is free of any element that could interfere with case seize.
GS

XxBulletBendeRXx
January 23, 2012, 03:00 PM
After a long day at the range on Sunday.. Now I have a lot of brass to blean up... found some Lapua and hornady match 308 brass. Not to mention plenty of fed 308 brass. ... I love it when the older guys get lazy and leave some good stuff behind. anyhow.. Off to clean and shine up this brass, so when It comes time to load they are ready.....

Canuck-IL
January 23, 2012, 05:09 PM
I'd check inside the cases for incipient head separation ... sometimes when the old guys leave quality headstamped brass around it's for a good reason - like they've already been loaded to a practical limit of cycles.
/B

Walkalong
January 23, 2012, 05:23 PM
I never leave bad brass for some poor fellow top pick up. I usually scrap it and sell it, but if I am too lazy to take it home, the case mouth gets crushed before it is tossed in the trash.

It's the right thing to do. AC

Unfortunately, not everyone cares about the next person.

Canuck-IL
January 23, 2012, 10:14 PM
Unfortunately, not everyone cares about the next person.
Which is exactly why all gift horses should be looked in the mouth ... quite literally in the case of cases.
/B

Arkansas Paul
January 24, 2012, 12:13 AM
I agree with the last few posts about looking over range brass carefully. Which is all the more reason to make em shine. :)

XxBulletBendeRXx
January 24, 2012, 12:07 PM
No doubt. Look them over is ona my first steps... Should be yours as well.. LOL...

zeke
January 24, 2012, 07:39 PM
clean brass is easier to find on the ground.

Sport45
January 24, 2012, 08:29 PM
I love it when the older guys get lazy and leave some good stuff behind.

And I love it when the young guys scatter new brass and walk away. ;)

XxBulletBendeRXx
January 27, 2012, 03:40 PM
Yep.. Those young guys usally leave .223 and 40 sw or 9mm... Very popular where Im at... not to interested in those.. I have thousands of the small stuff... Not to many Young guys leaving 30-06 match brass or 308 Match brass thats for sure. :neener:

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