Slower burning powder's


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Beak50
December 25, 2011, 07:00 PM
If I switch from BLC-2 to BMG-50 is it to slow burning for 8x57 or 7.5x55 cartridge's.What is the difference from slow to fast powder's Performance wise ect..?And why don't re-loading chart's have every powder on them?

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rcmodel
December 25, 2011, 07:03 PM
Because every powder won't work in every caliber.

Listed data from any published source contains only the powders that will perform satisfactorily in each caliber.

If you can't find it, don't try to use it.

And no, BMG-80 powder will not work in 8x57 or 7.5x55.

rc

kingmt
December 25, 2011, 07:23 PM
RC that isn't true except most 50 powder isn't idal for you. It will still get a bullet down range but leaves trash in the barrel.

rcmodel
December 25, 2011, 08:21 PM
Wooden safety match heads will get a bullet down range and leave trash in the barrel too.

But that doesn't mean you should use them if you can't find at least one reliable source listing data for them.

rc

NCsmitty
December 25, 2011, 10:45 PM
Like rcmodel said, if you cannot find load data for a powder/caliber combination, then you shouldn't consider using it.
If you consider substituting unlisted powders, then you need to take the time to educate yourself as to powder burn rates and the relationship to case volume and geometry. The information is available in books and brochures written by experts far smarter than many here.


NCsmitty

USSR
December 25, 2011, 10:58 PM
...if you cannot find load data for a powder/caliber combination, then you shouldn't consider using it.

That's a pretty broad statement, and there are certainly cases in which a savvy reloader can do load development without published load data for a particular bullet and powder.

Don

rcmodel
December 25, 2011, 11:31 PM
But the OP apparently isn't a savvy reloader, or he wouldn't have ask that question.

That is why he got the perhaps too simple and blunt an answer from me.

Sometimes I just don't see the broader picture others do.
Usually I try to respond to a question at the same experience level it was ask.

Sometimes my mind wanders too.

rc

gamestalker
December 25, 2011, 11:50 PM
Unless you have an extensive background in load developement to the extent of using non published applications, don't mess around, you'll get hurt or at the least ruin a gun. Trash in the barrel is the least of your concerns, when you suddenly have converted your firearm into a hand grenade!

When referring to slow burning powders it should be considered in proper context as to applications for a given cartridge that are published. I'll bet I could get any powder to push a bullet out the barrel, but by what guidlines if none exist? Reloading is already inherently risky just because we work with propellant's. But to just grab a canister of powder and wonder if it will work for this or that cartridge with unsupported data, requires transducer's and test barrels, bottomless financial resources, not to mention a degree in physics raletive to working with propellant's.

Sorry, but it this type of thinking that gets people hurt, and can give reloading a bad reputation.

beatledog7
December 26, 2011, 12:32 AM
With so many reliable sources containing load data for umpteen powders for just about every cartridge, why would a reloading novice want to experiment with other powders?

Got something to prove? Prove you know what you're doing and are smart enough to follow proven procedures and recipes. A major part of wisdom is being capable of recognizing what you don't know and admitting that you don't know it.

Metal Tiger
December 26, 2011, 02:08 AM
With so many reliable sources containing load data for umpteen powders for just about every cartridge, why would a reloading novice want to experiment with other powders?

A major part of wisdom is being capable of recognizing what you don't know and admitting that you don't know it.
Maybe its threads like these that make me appreciate this forum so much. I almost skipped reading through it. Thanks guys.

ArchAngelCD
December 26, 2011, 06:01 AM
Can you even get enough BMG-50 powder in a 7.5X55mm case to get the bullet out of the barrel? And if so how far will that bullet travel?

Willfully Armed
December 26, 2011, 06:15 AM
That's a pretty broad statement, and there are certainly cases in which a savvy reloader can do load development without published load data for a particular bullet and powder.

Don
Don ... dangerous territory there.

By the same trail of logic -

Hydrochloric acid will remove printing ink from your hands.

Does that mean its safe? Or should you just use Gojo handcleaner, that's been used for decades, and is intended for that use. ..

Beak50
December 26, 2011, 08:55 AM
No I'm New to Re-loading as all I have loaded is 8x57,7 Rem Mag and want to start loading the 7.5x55.I just figured slower burn rate means faster bullet speed.I have only used listed load's.I know alot of you guy's are much more knowledgable in Every aspect, that is why I posted this I would never try to do something crazy I'm just curious about all the different powder's and performance compared to them.thank's Beak

Walkalong
December 26, 2011, 09:50 AM
all I have loaded is 8x57,7 Rem Mag and want to start loading the 7.5x55.I just figured slower burn rate means faster bullet speed.
Up to a point, yes, same as faster means slower, up to a point, with plenty of middle ground where powder speeds and velocities over lap.

Going faster or slower than the main powders used for a caliber can work up to a point, but then you will get to powders too fast or too slow to be useful, and eventually be hazardous (Too fast) or completely unusable (To slow).

I have only used listed load's
Absolutely nothing wrong with that. 99% of us did just that at first, and many for quite a while, before tackling anything outside the books. One could stick with the books for a lifetime and be just fine.

USSR
December 26, 2011, 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USSR View Post
That's a pretty broad statement, and there are certainly cases in which a savvy reloader can do load development without published load data for a particular bullet and powder.

Don


Don ... dangerous territory there.

By the same trail of logic -

Hydrochloric acid will remove printing ink from your hands.

Does that mean its safe? Or should you just use Gojo handcleaner, that's been used for decades, and is intended for that use. ..

Not really, and you're not very good with logic. I stated that the savvy reloader (not the neophyte) can go outside of published load data if he is looking for something that the reloading manual gods think is outside the realm of normal loads. For example, years ago, a friend and I on Sniper's Hide both had this idea of shooting 190SMK's out of a .30-06 at 2900fps (for those that don't know, this is the same velocity as Gold Medal Match .300WM ammo). I cannot begin to tell you how much flack we took for this. "Too much pressure", "you'll blow your gun up", "Just get a .300WM", we heard it all. What we did was, we took a look at Quick Load software and found that RL22 should get us there and remain under the 60k pressure level. It worked well, got us the velocity we wanted, and now there is no controversy about this load.

Don

kingmt
December 26, 2011, 10:39 PM
RC
I agree with you. I never thought about useing matches tho. Are you sure they would work.

I use a 50 cal powder tho in 223, 243, 30-06, & 410 but it is much faster then 50 BMG.

Walkalong
December 26, 2011, 10:50 PM
I used to make home made "fire crackers" from match heads when I was a youth. I have never tried to make a gun shoot with them though.

MATT .45-70
December 27, 2011, 12:04 AM
If you are somewhat new to reloading stick with powders listed on the load charts for the caliber you are loading, For 7.5x 55 I just use 4064 it is a good all purpose rarely ever lets you down in any caliber type of powder. It may not get the best groups everytime but it is a go to powder.

Also dont get into the mindset that faster is better, every barrel of every rifle has its own speed at which it will perform the best, you can take two identical rifles and one may shoot better at 500FPS slower than the other. All you can do is test and keep records of every load and results and conditions,

And remember your not so much as finding out what works, but more so what does not work.

res7s
December 27, 2011, 02:47 AM
I used a match head for a primer with a '51 Colt clone once. It worked.

There is data to be found using surplus 50 BMG powders,similar to 50BMG BUT they ARE NOT from the powder or bullet manufacturers. They may work, but before I tried ANY of these loads(or anything not from a reputable source or three) I'd put in a call to Sierra bullets and talk to one of the "Bulletsmiths". 1.800.223.8799 They can help you more than most of us can. After all, that's their job. Study your manuals and follow the safety rules.

kingmt
December 27, 2011, 11:03 AM
I have used pulldown powder that is close to 50 BMG burn rate in .223 & 30-06. You can't get enough in the case to hurt anything but it is trashy. It sounds cool, low recoil, & makes grate groups in 30-06 but it is trashy. It is subsonic in a 30-06 with a compressed load.

Galil5.56
December 27, 2011, 11:58 AM
Talk about what seems an impossibly slow curve relationship of propellant to caliber; check out older (late 70's-1990 manuals I have) DuPont/IMR .44 Mag data... They list the entire IMR series at the time in the data (aside from 7828 in the 90 manual), to include IMR 4831 (NOT a typo) in the data under the rifle section. Many, many propellants can function at some level of safe performance, optimal, "best", or to your needs is a call you have to make.

Beak50
December 27, 2011, 05:43 PM
I was using BMG-50 as an example since I noticed it was the slowest burning powder I know of. I was just trying to see hypothedicaly speaking if slower burn rates mean more power ect..

kingmt
December 27, 2011, 07:00 PM
Slower means more speed until it gets to slow to get it going.

USSR
December 27, 2011, 07:37 PM
When using slower than normal powder, case capacity is crucial. One load development experiment I took on about 6 years ago involved slow burning powder for a 190SMK in .308 Winchester. If you use powder in the 4895 burn rate range, you bump up against high pressure before you can get good velocity. If you use most 4350 burn rate powders, you simply cannot get enough powder in the case to get good velocity. Again, with the help of Quick Load software, I thought that VihtaVouri N550 might work. It did, and I was able to get 2700fps from my 26" barreled FN SPR, while remaining within SAAMI pressure specs.

Don

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