Reloading and homeowners insurance


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cberge8
December 26, 2011, 03:36 PM
I recently changed my homeowners insurance company; the new company has requested to do a walk through of the house. Has anyone else ever had any problems with reloading equipment and components causing problems for your insurance company?

I really don't want to have to disassemble my entire bench and pack it up in the attic, any info would be greatly appreciated.

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92GreenYJ
December 26, 2011, 04:19 PM
I can't say for sure but I am interested in the responses as the wife and I will be starting our house hunt after the new year.

I gotta wonder how many joe averages would even know what reloading gear is let alone what it is used for. I'd say stash your powder out of sight and your probably good to go

Revolver218
December 26, 2011, 04:24 PM
I wouldn't recommend you hide anything from the insurance company. Demonstrate you reload in a responsible manner (if asked, you may not be), proper storage of powder, primers and reloaded ammo. There also may be a limit on the amount of powder you can possess. They will be more concerned with any wood stove you use (a leading cause of fires) and storage of gas and/or propane, along with wiring, the condition of the roof, smoke detectors, etc. I doubt there will be a problem. How many fires/explosions have we ever heard of resulting from reloading or its components? I can't think of any.

kelbro
December 26, 2011, 05:56 PM
I would not let them see it. Insurance companies are in business (for the most part) to NOT have to pay claims.

ReloaderFred
December 26, 2011, 06:12 PM
You could take a picture of the powder display at a local store that sells to reloaders, and if there's a question, show them the picture and ask why if it's safe to sell powder off a shelf, then why would it be unsafe to have a smaller amount of powder in your shop?

If you're really concerned, you can build a powder storage container out of wood, which is the recommended way to store it. Fire departments don't like metal containers for powder and primers, preferring the insulating qualities of wood and the fact that a wood container won't blow from trapped gasses.

Hope this helps.

Fred

cberge8
December 26, 2011, 06:18 PM
kelbro, my thoughts exactly.

I do have a powder storage box, and a primer storage box that I made This sort of adds to the issue of "just picking all of the stuff up".

If they give me any hassle over it, I think I may just ask to sign a waiver disallowing any claims originating from reloading activities or power/primer storage.

Striker Fired
December 26, 2011, 06:49 PM
My agent knows I reload and my presses are even itemized on the policy like all my guns,computers, and other stuff that is worth $125-$150 or more .That way in the case of a fire most of my stuff is already listed as a predetermend replacement price and that is what I would get for them. They never said anything about the reloading supplies being a problem.

ny32182
December 26, 2011, 07:09 PM
Seems to me that the best way to build a case for not paying a claim would be if you are intentionally hiding something from them.

That said, the gas can in your garage, the liquor cabinet, and likely the chemicals under the sink are all more volatile than gunpowder. As far as I know my homeowners insurance doesn't know specifically that I reload, but they haven't asked either. I don't see why it would be a problem as long as you are not storing it in quantities that violate local fire codes, etc... If you are worried, asking your insurance is the best course of action, and trying to hide something is likely the worst course of action.

brickeyee
December 26, 2011, 07:17 PM
Just put it away.

Flash!
December 26, 2011, 07:22 PM
I don't know about the insurance part, but I'm refinancing my home right now.... the appraiser came and took pictures of every room including the spare bedroom where my reloading bench is set up.... all the pictures including one of my reloading bench was sent to the mortgage company.....not a word was said about it and my loan was approved......

leadchucker
December 26, 2011, 08:19 PM
Has anyone ever seen any wording in a homeowner's insurance policy that could be used to deny coverage or claims because of normal ammunition reloading going on in the home?

kelbro
December 26, 2011, 10:52 PM
To clarify, I based my opinion on the fact that I have way more powder and primers than I am supposed to.

I do not tell my auto insurance people that I occasionally drive over the speed limit either :)

leadchucker
December 26, 2011, 11:00 PM
The trouble with not being straight with the insurance company is that in the event of a fire or disaster, if they find evidence of "having more powder/primers than you are supposed to", or similar situations, that is the legal loophole they need to weasel out of paying a claim.

thorn-
December 27, 2011, 02:12 AM
My agent is aware of all the guns and components; it's not a problem whatsoever.

However, as leadchucker pointed out: don't hide anything from your ins company. If you are not within the specs of your contract, they DONT have to pay if it's determined your dishonesty was a factor in the insurability of the claim under the agreed terms.

thorn

cvo
December 27, 2011, 03:42 AM
Yea show them everything, even find some extra powder containers to sit around. Tell the inspector if your house catches on fire it will make a one mile crater. :neener: Seriously, put things away.

Bovice
December 27, 2011, 06:06 AM
What Mama don't know won't hurt her. Put everything away.

hvychev77
December 27, 2011, 06:36 AM
i've always felt like honesty is the best policy. i'd sure hate to think that if something did happen to my house such as a fire, or theft, and i go to make a claim they deny it because they didn't know what was in there. i am positive my insurance company works just as hard as i do to cover their butts. so, i'd be up front with 'em, and if they don't want to cover you because of it then it's their loss............just my .02 cents...........

crooked stripe
December 27, 2011, 06:59 AM
We had a panel box fire 2 years back and I heard-found it before it did to much damage. The insurance co. was great fixing and paying for everything. My reloading bench and powder cabinet are about 20' from the panel box. The appraiser and state fire Marshall made their inspection before everything was fixed. My reloading bench is like my work bench, a mess most of the time. Powder and primers where put away as always. Not a word was said by either one as they did their inspection and they looked at everything. I have never heard of reloading being an issue with insurance. A commercial venue might make a difference though. I will add, my insurance never went up either. Hope this answers some questions.

twohightech
December 27, 2011, 07:26 AM
Out of sight is what i would do. I would leave the work bench out. I keep most of my stuff "put up" when i'm not using it anyway. Unless you have alot of money in your set up and you want to be sure it is covered. Poeple get new things everyday

Yoffione
December 27, 2011, 08:46 AM
I have been an insurance agent for 20 years. You will have no issues on a home inspection and the reloading supplies. I would not worry about it. As for coverage on your reloading equipment, it is covered as personal property with no specific value limits. If you have replacement cost ( make sure you do ) it will apply to the reloading stuff.

beatledog7
December 27, 2011, 08:46 AM
Insurance is just a game, but a game where your opponent can afford to pay the referee. As with any such game, you can't win by playing precisely by the rules.

Put your components away. And once you're cleared and insured, use good sense. As somebody above said, the chances of reloading activities creating a claim situation are pretty low.

psyshack
December 27, 2011, 10:38 PM
I wouldn't hide a thing. When we paid our home off, the shack that it is. We had to get new ins. Several company's didn't need to see in the house, just a fast drive by. Others wanted to inspect the inside.

Of those that did a walk through and a quick attic peak nothing was said concerning the reloading bench, safe or guns. Other than what are they worth on the market and what are they worth to you? Same with the fish tanks and other hobby / improvement to life items in the house.

It all worked out great and all bids were within $100 a year. With contents being worth three times what the house is worth.

It's basic show them who you are and how you live, run and maintain your home. Then if they balk sue the crap out of them.....

It also pay's in the long run to be with a co. you have a positive history with. We ended you going with our agent that has taken care of our auto ins. for years. She has seen to it that our policy for auto is at local rates. As if we work in the town we live in. Small town America. Truth is we drive 100 to 150 miles a day round trip to Tulsa. More times than not we carpool in together. But there are times we run both cars in and back. We get the good deal. :)

Deavis
December 27, 2011, 10:59 PM
As with any such game, you can't win by playing precisely by the rules.


So by that logic, since big banks can pay the ref, it's okay if I tell a few lies to extort money from them. That's okay right? No? Okay, well if they give me $1000 in error, its okay if I don't tell them about the mistake because its better to hide it. They don't pay enough interest anyhow. Right....

Be upfront and honest. Take the highroad and ignore the advice about hiding things, lying by omission, or anything else that could cause you trouble down the road. Your insurance company will probably not care as long as you are following applicable fire code for your area. If they do, a simple phone call can solve the problem, afterall NFPA was recently updated to allow much more reasonable amounts of primers and the powder limitation is still pretty high for normal reloaders.

Its been my experience that people are far more interested in a tour than giving me grief when they inspect and see my setup. You may make a new shooting buddy, there are more of us than you think.

AABEN
December 27, 2011, 11:07 PM
Jest DON'T tell him you reload for any one! To reload for your self is OK. I reload in my garage and that is OK it is not hook to the house.

snakeman
December 27, 2011, 11:30 PM
Just organize it and consider moving it to a shed. I'm an adjuster in training and a gun nut. That said they if the fact that you are storing explosives in your home isn't disclosed and you have a fire someday in which the powder or primers is even involved you could lose your donkey quick because they will not pay.

beatledog7
December 27, 2011, 11:45 PM
So by that logic, since big banks can pay the ref, it's okay if I tell a few lies to extort money from them. That's okay right? No? Okay, well if they give me $1000 in error, its okay if I don't tell them about the mistake because its better to hide it. They don't pay enough interest anyhow. Right....

I did not advocate lying. I suggested it might be prudent to exercise a degree of control over what information you volunteer.

What you suggested above is blatant theft. Huge difference.

ny32182
December 27, 2011, 11:58 PM
It wouldn't be any different if you could force them to pay in a situation that was outside the contract, but likely, you can't.

What are you gaining by hiding something? The point is to be insured. If you are not, what is the point of buying insurance in the first place? Who gets the "last laugh" if the 100lb of powder in your closet cooks off, you make that mile wide crater, and your insurance policy has some clause about fires caused or exacerbated by reloading supplies not being covered? (probably an extremely unlikely hypothetical... but really... the "hiders" in this thread need to seriously ask themselves about what they are expecting to get in return whenever they send the ins. co a check). For me, it strikes me as an incredibly bad time to play games or dick around with wondering if you are in compliance with the contract when hundreds of thousands of dollars are potentially at stake. But maybe that is just me.

beatledog7
December 28, 2011, 12:12 AM
The typical house/garage is full of stuff that's potentially far more explosive than reloading supplies, but I've never heard of a case where the presence of undisclosed paint/stain cans, aerosols, cooking oil, etc. were an issue in a claim.

The point is to be insured, sure. But hypothetically, would you rather be insured and at great risk, or uninsured and at minimal risk.

ny32182
December 28, 2011, 12:15 AM
Do you plan to hide the paint cans, cooking oil, etc if insurance co. wants a picture of the room they are in?

beatledog7
December 28, 2011, 12:28 AM
No, but I wouldn't plan on having them scattered about. I'd plan to have them properly stored. "Put it away" does not equal "hide it."

And I wouldn't plan on notifying my insurance company if I buy paint. Would you? Would anyone?

BeerSleeper
December 28, 2011, 08:20 AM
I would be completely honest to any question asked, but I would probably also put away the equipment in the hopes of not inviting the question.

It's somewhat beside the point, but my equipment is mounted to plywood that I c-clamp to the bench when using it, so my equipment takes down pretty quick.

kelbro
December 28, 2011, 08:24 AM
Just organize it and consider moving it to a shed. I'm an adjuster in training and a gun nut. That said they if the fact that you are storing explosives in your home isn't disclosed and you have a fire someday in which the powder or primers is even involved you could lose your donkey quick because they will not pay.

Primers are explosives. Smokeless powder is not.

Putting your reloading materials 'up' for an inspection may or may not be required to get coverage. I don't know as I have never had an ins. company ask to do an inspection. I think that if they did, I would probably find another company. Is this common now? Like Progressive wanting you to put that 'tattler' in your car to get you 'better rates'?

Besides, not disclosing your equipment/materials or even hiding them would have no more of an effect on a claim being paid than would starting reloading after the inspection. Unless they specifically exclude that activity in your policy, you would be covered.

crooked stripe
December 28, 2011, 09:16 AM
Inspections are becoming more common than you think. I have heard this from a few people. A couple people where dropped with no reason that they know of, then had to go through with the inspection routine. I have 2 friends who had roofing claims and the insurance co paid then dropped them. Things are changing, more people wanting to get into my business to dictate how I live. I sure don't like it.

JohnJak
December 28, 2011, 11:20 AM
Just put it away.

RevolverDan
December 28, 2011, 11:20 AM
I didn't read through every response, but if it's any consolation I actually asked my agent about the OPs question when I started reloading a few years back. I wanted to make sure there wasn't some other rider or extra fire coverage I needed. I get my insurance from State Farm. Their reply was that having the materials would have not change the outcome of a legitimate claim (ie - the materials needed to be stored properly) and there would be no additional coverage required.

35 Whelen
December 28, 2011, 11:42 AM
Don't say anything, don't move anything. If they won't insure you because of your reloading hobby, there's another company out there hungry enough to insure you.

35W

RustyFN
December 28, 2011, 02:33 PM
I would have everything where it belongs and neat but I wouldn't hide it. Being dishonest just isn't me. If the insurance company has a problem with it then goodbye, next.

jmorris
December 28, 2011, 02:51 PM
Never had an agent want to walk the place, they just ask me how much coverage I want.

I wouldn't "hide" anything but I would put up just like I do when any guests come over.

Saguaro6
July 19, 2013, 03:31 PM
I agree it is best to be honest and upfront. However, I have heard rumors that the fire department, when hearing ammo cooking off, will back off and let the place burn for firefighter safety reasons. Don't know if its fact, tho. If that was the case, I would think the insurance company might get ticked.

Sweet Agony
July 19, 2013, 04:15 PM
If nothing else I would remove all the excess powder and primers so they know you are a responsible reloader to keep the fire risk as low as possible.

jmorris
July 19, 2013, 04:57 PM
I have heard rumors that the fire department, when hearing ammo cooking off, will back off and let the place burn for firefighter safety reasons.


Pretty old thread but likely more on topic now everyone has four lifetimes worth stockpiled.

The powder and ammunition I have (and I have "a lot") would be nothing compared to one or two of my acetylene tanks lighting off. Ammo in a fire is pretty uneventfull, cases giveway like popcorn. Might be a bit more of an issue with my 50 BMG API ammo but I have never burned any of it.

2@low8
July 19, 2013, 05:44 PM
Why guess?

Instead of buying the policy first, just tell them that you want to see a complete copy of the contract to see what they will cover and what they wonít.

If there is any exclusion that you donít like; see if you can purchase the additional coverage or buy elsewhere. You donít want to get in a position where any recovery from the insurance company will be negated by what you do that is contrary to the policy endorsements.

floydster
July 19, 2013, 08:37 PM
Insurance company's are like bottom feeding lawyers, that should tell you something--you will pay one way or another.

Reloadron
July 19, 2013, 09:07 PM
My opinion is just to leave things out in a neat orderly fashion if they want to do a walk through or inspection. That does not include for example leaving 10 pounds of black powder laying out with EXPLOSIVE plastered all over it. Use common sense.

Just My Take
Ron

Honest John
July 19, 2013, 09:15 PM
Don't lie to your insurance company. Why give them an excuse to screw you out of everything? :banghead:
Find out what the local fire code requirements are for primer and propellant storage, and follow them.

jack44
July 19, 2013, 09:37 PM
Put it away they look for any excuse to raise your rates! its just like having a boiler inside your house HIDE ALL YOUR STUFF.

Bush Pilot
July 20, 2013, 12:21 AM
My agent wasn't half as concerned about my reloading as he was my meth lab.

Honest John
July 20, 2013, 12:47 AM
If you think professional investigators understand less about determining the progress of a fire than you do, please try to keep your criminal career to a minimum.
If you are complying with fire codes and your insurance company is treating you inequitably, try a different company.

Kuyong_Chuin
July 20, 2013, 08:21 AM
You guys do realize this is over a year and a half year old thread that someone dug up and posted they agreed with what was said on a earlier post?

wgaynor
July 20, 2013, 08:29 AM
Let them see it. If they give you grief, fire them and get a different company.

HexHead
July 20, 2013, 09:30 AM
I'd leave out 1000 primers and a couple of 1lb jugs of powder. Few hundred pieces of brass and some bullets.

I'd put the rest of the "consumables" away. That way you seem "reasonable".

baz
July 20, 2013, 09:37 AM
To clarify, I based my opinion on the fact that I have way more powder and primers than I am supposed to. What does that mean? How much are we "supposed to" have? Is that a question like "how many mags per firearm" should you have? Or "what caliber for elk?"

LeonCarr
July 20, 2013, 10:05 AM
Don't lie...ever. There are enough liars in the world today. The Spetsnaz Commander in the movie Red Dawn said, "Lies have the stench of cowardice and defeat". Don't be a liar or a coward. There are enough of those in the world today also.

Store your powder and primers separately and store them to DOT specs and you should be ok. You can find the DOT powder storage guidelines online or in just about any reloading manual. Per DOT smokeless powder is a flammable solid, not an explosive.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

kestak
July 27, 2013, 09:50 AM
Whooaaaa! Some bad advices here.

First, your insurance agent, your insurance company ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. Never.
You insurance agent will be a tell-taler to avoid to lose his contract with the insurance company if he has too.

I worked for years for a auto/property/bonds insurance company insuring all East Coast states. My job made me work cleely with the adjusters.

Do not lie. But hide EVERYTHING. Don't even have your dogs present when the 'safety' inspection occurs. You have to list your dogs breed, if they are mutts, make them lab-mix.
Cover your fireplace wood piles or split them and you just burn a little bit of wood for comfort and not 5 cords per year. Just have the chimney swept each year by a pro and keep invoice.

Certainly NEVER display on wall , while the inspector cones, firearms or even answer a question about it. Do not have anything firearm related that he can ever see. He will report even if he sees a gun magazine on the living room table.

An insurance company cannot refuse to pay to replace a damaged roof or stolen goods because you did not divulge you have guns.

Umbrella are another thing. Personally, i have an umbrella because we have a vackyard lake and we expect floaters and the issues arising with it. As of now, no floater landed on our shore. But the umbrella is from a different insurance company than my house and car. A little bit more expansive, but safer .

i was part of the pilot team who implemented the first major credit scoring attached to your insurance premium with a major insurance company. The correlation was incredible. When we did the R&D, it was 95%. So, do not think the insurances companies dot not have R&D about firearms owners, pet owners, even the kind of underwear you wear I would guess. When I left the company for another sector, we just signed a contract with a major datawarehousing company and establish a data contract betwwen a credit card company and the insurance company to do correlations betwen customer claims and buying habits.

Elkins45
July 27, 2013, 09:59 AM
What does that mean? How much are we "supposed to" have? Is that a question like "how many mags per firearm" should you have? Or "what caliber for elk?"
There's a fire code limitation on gunpowder storage. If you ever pick up one of the loading brochures the powder makers give away it usually has information on safe storage and fire code limits somewhere in the front. Reading one of them was the reason I built a powder storage magazine with 1" wood walls. I wanted to be 100% in compliance with the fire code in case there ever was a problem.

FWIW my powder storage box is located directly under where the ABS plastic water line enters the house. I have the hope this might act as sort of a primitive sprinkler system on the remote chance I ever have a powder fire. If the fire got hot enough to melt through the line then maybe the deluge of water would either cool the powder fire or at least disperse it. It may be dumb but it didn't cost anything to do.

orionengnr
July 27, 2013, 02:45 PM
You guys do realize this is over a year and a half year old thread that someone dug up and posted they agreed with what was said on a earlier post?
And yet again by a first time poster....:banghead:

kestak
July 27, 2013, 03:08 PM
ROTFLOL

i did not realize the thread was so old. Oh well. It is Saturday!

Jcinnb
July 27, 2013, 07:28 PM
I would opine that just opening this thread, you need 100% disclosure.

You have no idea where people work, etc. your user names could be subpenoed in a big enough claim, and searches done. Plus NSA already has this recorded.

I doubt reloading would affect premium, but if it did, several dollars a month rather than a denied claim.

oneounceload
July 27, 2013, 08:09 PM
You can hide the powder, but what are you going to do about your gun safe? Guns typically require a rider for coverage anyway

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