Something's going on...


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Yoda
December 26, 2011, 11:22 PM
So, I'm at an office party, surrounded by my liberal anti-gun co-workers, and for once I've decided to avoid guns and politics because I really don't want to do anything except bail out and go home early, but...

One by one, each of my co-workers, plus one VERY liberal Democratic-operative wife of a co-worker, all approach me and ask if I would give them a concealed carry class. For years, they've all made disparaging comments about guns and gun owners (including me), but now they all want training for concealed carry. And they didn't just a vague promise to conduct a class sometime in the indefinite future. They got together and got me to commit to a class two weekends from now.

A few days later, I'm at a Christmas party with about 45 in-laws and other members of my extended family. This is a normal annual event, but THIS time, several fathers and one mother approach me and ask if I would give a concealed carry class to their daughters. My wife's cousin also asks for a class.

And an old friend called me out of the blue and asked what sort of gun he should get for concealed carry. He said he had been considering getting a gun for years, but now he's ready.

I think I'm seeing the symptoms of a general unease. Is anyone else seeing this?

- - - Yoda

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floorit76
December 26, 2011, 11:28 PM
Yes, very much. Not in the same way, but I have seen alot of people who are starting to get nervous about the current state of affairs.

guyfromohio
December 26, 2011, 11:29 PM
Not to that extent, but I've taken more first-timers shooting these past three months than ever before. Something is simmering.

Drail
December 26, 2011, 11:35 PM
I think for whatever reason a lot of people (especially women) who simply never thought about violent crime are slowly waking up to the possibility that they are actually responsible for their own personal protection. It was not so much that that they were pro or anti, they just hadn't spent much time worrying about their personal safety or didn't consider that something bad could happen to them. I used to be an NRA instructor and we taught a lot of women's personal protection classes in Illinois where no one is ever going to be allowed to carry a concealed weapon. Yet once a month we would run a class of perhaps 50 women who had decided they wanted to take control of their safety when their husband was not available. They had either had a frightening experience or knew another woman who had. The thing that amazed me was the fact that even though we knew and all of these women knew that they could not legally carry concealed every one of them planned to do so anyway. I also knew a lot of LEOs who knew what we were doing and approved in spite of the law. I was so proud of every single one of these women. You could see a change come over them when they realized they could take care of themselves. Good luck with your class. Teach them to be safe above all.

gunnutery
December 26, 2011, 11:51 PM
I'm sure there are lots of reasons for people turning round to SD including the economy, global protesting and overthrows, and perhaps even congress passing a national carry reciprocity bill. But one of the things that could be hitting home is all of the murder/suicide coverage. I'm only 31, so I can't say if this trend (or the media's coverage of it) has been only in recent years or has just been quite common over a long period of time. But it does seem to be reported much more than I remember in years past. It seems like a day doesn't go by that we don't hear of some little girl going missing or some nut killing a bunch of people then offing himself.

Perhaps this is only a small part of it, but I'm glad to hear so many people are finally seeing the light.

The_Next_Generation
December 26, 2011, 11:54 PM
My dad just talked to me about the possibility of stockpiling food, ammo, etc. He is pretty liberal, I was shocked.

I agree, something is up.

- TNG

signalzero
December 26, 2011, 11:57 PM
I've found that guns and politics are not always mutually exclusive. Good that they've identified you as a reliable source. Most people lose their preconceived notions about guns once thy have proper education.

dcarch
December 27, 2011, 12:00 AM
I have taken more first time shooters this year than any other time in my life--- put together. I definitely feel like something's up too.

Drail
December 27, 2011, 12:02 AM
I have noticed that there are a lot more shows on television discussing the economy and the 2012 thing and the future of this country. It's interesting to see the looks on the reporters faces when the survivalists tell them that when if system collapses those with guns will be better off than those without. The other night a show had reporters talking to various "experts" and someone asked how long it would take for civilization to completely break down if fresh water and food and medical care started getting scarce and he quickly replied - "four days". The reporters seemed stunned. You could almost hear the gears turning in their little heads.

Apple a Day
December 27, 2011, 12:02 AM
2012: elections, Nostradamus, economy,zombies... People are nervous.

wvshooter
December 27, 2011, 12:17 AM
My personal take is that the financial picture has people worried. No need to list all of the problems. They're talked up on TV every night.

I'm assuming having a way to defend yourself and having some stocks of supplies on hand is one way to alleviate some of the anxiety. It probably all boils down to the fear of social unrest.

welldoya
December 27, 2011, 12:22 AM
I've had several people at work show interest in learning to shoot and buying a gun, especially women.
I think it's due to increased crime and the increased availability of concealed weapons permits.

Twmaster
December 27, 2011, 12:25 AM
Something is afoot. I can feel it in the way people talk. The attitudes I encounter. People are scared.

mokin
December 27, 2011, 12:33 AM
"Interesting" times indeed....

Zundfolge
December 27, 2011, 12:33 AM
Aside from people getting nervous, I also think the anti gun movement is dying on the vine.

Its amazing just how much people are manipulated by media and with the decline in the anti gun movement their voice in media is diminishing ... and guns are becoming popular with groups that used to hate them.

Have you noticed just how many pro-gun tv shows there are all of the sudden? Have you noticed that virtually every "reality TV" series has devoted an episode to visiting the range? I think the knee jerk anti gunner attitude in most media is starting to fade.

Guns are actually starting to become chic.

No telling if the trend will continue or reverse at some point, but that could be part of the equation.

bpsig
December 27, 2011, 12:42 AM
I agree something is up. The money and world problems have started to set in and wake people up. The trips to the stores, shopping ,food costs Seems to have jolted them again. The final straw has been many places laying off cops and basically saying your on your own. when not distracted by the bs on tv and papers about hollywood they have an oh shi realization. So many will dive in and try to change. Others will continue burying their heads and deny. listening / chanting to the everything is fine speech right up until the buses show up to collect them for saftey relocation . Just means more people trying to get stuff like us.

Lonestar49
December 27, 2011, 01:55 AM
...

Besides the due date of Dec/21/2012, and the hard times/economy still heading further south, right after the Christmas/Holiday temporary hiring ends, all one need do is watch the nightly news, read the daily papers, and see crimes of hate, hate you because of the nice car you're driving, hate you because of the nice house you live in, hate you just to hate, kidnap your kids for your money, take you hostage while your other goes to bank and withdraws all your money or else your kid, wife, gets it. The unrest at many of our Colleges, churches, anywhere there is a crowd, unrest is not far away these days.

Besides the out of control road rage and short tempers of many due to hard times, drugs or booze while driving, hell, just walking around us, and whatever crime, no matter how violent or senseless and how lives have been getting ruined over the decades - closer and closer to where one lives or has tp drive past or to and they've realized, finally, a known fact that the PD's arrive only after the crimes or events have already taken place and people are now understanding - one cannot, or should not, depend on one's PD or someone like yourself, those of us that are part of this forum, etc., to be there as well to help them - rather

It's an awakening to the fact of "taking responsibility for one's self or family" has a deeper need to be fulfilled, prepared for, and possibly a close friend or neighbor or someone you don't even know - but you know a/o they may realize, in foresight, that such a person in harms way and there is no time for the wait a/o the wait time if one makes a 911 call first.. if time for that.

It's the simple code of good vs bad and self responsibility in a time, past, now, tomorrow, next week, next year, and on, that may not get any better rather - far from it, and "being to late" has meaning to them - now

*The truth always finds a way to those who refused to see or hear it while they've read and seen, daily, bad, terrible, scary, news events via any news source for a long time, up until "now", thinking "it will never happen to me or my family" or a close friend or neighbor - and now "it just could and I need to be prepared in the best way I can" - enter the_gun SD/HD use and its true meaning we've known for a long time "and" -

As my Godmother always told me - "there's nothing new under the sun" as it's the same today, as will be tomorrow, as it was, way back when, with the founding Fathers and their struggles for freedom way back then and to keep those freedoms each day forward, including today, "modern times". Thus the 2nd Amendment and one's Right to own and bear arms -

OMMV,


Ls

Hypnogator
December 27, 2011, 01:57 AM
each of my co-workers, plus one VERY liberal Democratic-operative wife of a co-worker, all approach me and ask if I would give them a concealed carry class. For years, they've all made disparaging comments about guns and gun owners (including me), but now they all want training for concealed carry.

Charlton Heston described the same phenomenon, with his ultra-liberal gun-hating Hollywood neighbors, who were for every anti-gun piece of legislation until the Watts riots, then came to him asking, "Hey, Chuck, could I borrow one of your shotguns for a few days?"

Still, it's an opportunity to educate some folks, and as others have pointed out, "there's something in the air out there."

Inebriated
December 27, 2011, 02:16 AM
My parents both are asking me to take them to a CCW class when I go (I'm 20). I'm glad to see that they're finally seeing why for the last few years, I've walked softly and carried a rather large, pointy, steel stick.

Fishslayer
December 27, 2011, 02:18 AM
Maybe you saw one of the several articles re this Black Friday's record gun sales?

Here in The People's Republik an FFL told me that Kalifornistan had sold more guns by 0900 than they usually did ALL DAY!:D

The range I go to is an indoor, sorta "family oriented" place. I see women shootists in there all the time. Not just the "drag alongs," though there are also plenty of those. These gals are putting in serious practice. ;)

People are reallizing that things are gonna get a lot worse before they get better. I was told there were 9 armed robberies in a two week span along Main St. of my little town. :uhoh:

Hopefully enough people in San Diego will want CCW enough to oust our anti gun Sheriff.

Ignition Override
December 27, 2011, 03:08 AM
Possibly the tragedy in CT months ago, where the two thugs broke into a very nice house in daylight and murdered almost the entire family (the doctor/father survived), along with a huge number of crimes repeated so many times on '24 hour tv' are a factor. Even when people feel threatened and some manage to make a 911 call, what call can stop a bullet or a knife?

Maybe that single, highly-publicized tragedy infiltrated those anti-gun peoples' subconscious thinking, and made it up into the conscious awareness? Women often realize how vulnerable they are.

Images of ongoing major demonstrations -violent or not- in some Euro Zone countries, some of which will default on huge loans, plus violent unrest in several UK cities, but specifically, how widespread the strategic US "Occupy Wall Street" movement became, might be 'sinking in'. Warm spring weather will mark another season, with the smaller, tactical "Flash Mob" possible due to cell phones.

On a much more subtle note, a friend and I sat in front of his semi-rural home months ago on a nice day. This is south of Olive Branch, MS, not far from Memphis.
Two guys walking down the road were checking every driveway, and were not carrying anything visible. Their 'look' exactly resembles that of the Shelby County convicts who maintain the trail network at Shelby Farms.

When I left ten minutes later, both guys were squatting at a road intersection, and when one saw me look their direction from the stop sign, he quickly turned his face away.
This was in the middle of a sunny afternoon. Who would notice them strolling by at night? County roads have almost no street lights.

Paris
December 27, 2011, 10:29 AM
Definitely more people shooting these days.

I used to go shooting at an indoor range down the road from work in the middle of the week on my lunch hour. So, Wednesday or Thursday, noon to one'ish. The place was always dead. I was always the only guy in there shooting. There would be five or six gun counter guys standing around (fairly large attached gun shop). That was six years go or so.

Recently I started going during lunch again. The first time I went I had to sign in and be put on a waiting list. All the lanes were full! Each time I go now the place is busy, and this is in the middle of a work day!

Crime is down overall. That's proven. People's perceptions are hard to change though. If someone you know and trust tells you "things are getting rough" you are inclined to believe it. Toss in a few anecdotal stories and you are convinced. Then you go and tell someone who trusts you, and so on, and so forth.

Paris
December 27, 2011, 10:39 AM
Zundfolge, I think you nailed it. Guns are becoming trendy for a lot of people. The media definitely are giving guns a wide birth compared to what they were. It used to be the only "gun" shows on TV were old war documentaries on History or A&E, but now we have lots of them and even mainstream shows are incorporating them.

I think it also has to do with the boomers starting to wind down. Boomers were the biggest group of anti gunners but subsequent generations seem to have less issue with them. Yeah, they are out there but not in the same numbers from what I can see.

scaatylobo
December 27, 2011, 11:03 AM
I too have seen a change.

My brother [ a bit younger,62 ] just informed me that he is getting his CCW.

Now this is a man who voted for Obama and who I would classify as a 'bit' liberal.

AND his wife who is flaming liberal,want to learn how to shoot the pistol too.

I am very hesitant to sign CCW's for those I know.

But three very close and good men asked me and I did sign for them.

They then asked me to train them,I agreed as I want them safe and good .

I do see a change.

JoeMal
December 27, 2011, 11:13 AM
I don't think the (R) and (D) aspects play as big of a part as they used to. And just because you are (D) doesn't mean you HATE and are totally opposed to firearms. Just sayin'

It's a weird place we live in today...people are taking it upon themselves. And for good reason.

If anything, it shows people are sick of the media influence of "I shouldn't own a gun because...". People see and understand that guns are beneficial in more ways than not.

DammitBoy
December 27, 2011, 11:24 AM
My personal take is that the financial picture has people worried. No need to list all of the problems. They're talked up on TV every night.

I'm assuming having a way to defend yourself and having some stocks of supplies on hand is one way to alleviate some of the anxiety. It probably all boils down to the fear of social unrest.

This +12

Politics don't mean squat when you are worried about a collapsing economy and world unrest.

armarsh
December 27, 2011, 11:25 AM
One fairly recent development, aside from all the usual chaos, is the game "Knock-out King". http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_THRILL_ASSAULTS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-12-24-10-28-42

If ever there was a reason to carry, this is it.

Professor Gun
December 27, 2011, 11:50 AM
I am an NRA pistol instructor and have had similar experiences over the past year. I think people are watching what is happening in places like Greece and England as money for "entitlements" runs out and they are thinking that is likely to happen here.

Next are thoughts of protecting your family and yourself.

Black Knight
December 27, 2011, 12:53 PM
They may be seeing the light. With the economic times and governments trying to cut back services as little as possible, police services is one area that will be cut back. The old saying " when seconds count, police are minutes away", may turn into "when seconds count, police are hours away". They see the rise in crime due to the economy and realize that the police can't be everywhere. I hope I'm wrong but I'm afraid things may get worse before they get better.

mljdeckard
December 27, 2011, 01:01 PM
Don't mind me, I'm just looking for my tinfoil hat.

Ky Larry
December 27, 2011, 01:15 PM
In the 1960-70's, life in America was so mundane and boring that people took drugs like LSD to make life seem different and weird. Now, life in America has become so weird and crazy that people take drugs like Prozac to make life seem "normal." People used to say thngs like "Wow.Far out, man." Now they just say "Whatever." I have no idea if there's a social observation here or not.

I think Katrina opened a lot of peoples eye to the fact that the "gubment" cannot take care of large groups of citizens in an emergency. When the lights go out and your family is hungry, you're on your own.:uhoh:

nazshooter
December 27, 2011, 01:21 PM
The local Wal-Mart started carrying storable food and AR style rifles. I think that pretty much says it all about public attitudes.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Ghost Tracker
December 27, 2011, 01:55 PM
"We have nothing to fear...but fear itself" Winston Churchill Don't intend to sound like I'm preachin' but I'm surprised we've gone 32 posts on this subject without any mention of (any) God. Since we've already opened the political discussion, let's go ahead and throw religion (or rather - spirituality) into the mix. Great spiritual teachers (pick your favorite) are universal in their insight that we always (ALWAYS) get what we "ask & believe". I would suggest that, with the instances noted in these posts, there is a LOT of people asking & believing for chaos, upheaval & disaster. So that's what we're gonna' GET. And if it happens in the timeframe & at the level that society seems to "believe" (*please see above) it's coming, then any form of gun/ammo preparation is, at best, a very short-sighted plan. I have always very much enjoyed owning, shooting & reading about firearms yet to imagine them as a hedge against global collapse is like citizens prior to Noah's flood seeking good swim training.
Please prepare as rapidly & throughly as you feel prudent for your circumstances. But know that churches of all religions are experiencing the same "symptoms" as the ones we are relaying in this thread, yet the suggested preparations are "slightly" different. We are not human beings trying to have a spiritual experience. We are (ALL) spiritual beings currently having a HUMAN experience. If enough of us "ask & believe" to remember only THAT, then this anticipated upheaval becomes more like Chicken Little's warning of "The sky is falling, the sky if falling!". If we simply "ask & believe" for abundance, tranquility & peace and behave like that's what we expect...we can CHANGE what's coming. It's always been that way. God (or whatever you call him) Bless us ALL!

Paris
December 27, 2011, 01:59 PM
I have to agree Ghost Tracker. I think more than anything, certain people WANT to believe something is going to happen and Lord knows, when people WANT something bad enough, they will find a way to make it happen. I see a lot of that kind of thinking in this thread. It's not healthy. It's not productive. More than that, it's just not reality. This goes back to my last post about people's perceptions.

Does violent crime happen? Yes. Do food shortages happen? Yes. Is the economy cyclical? Yes. Is the world ending? No. Are certain people acting like it is? Yes. Are these people acting rationally? No.

Hoppes Love Potion
December 27, 2011, 02:00 PM
All kinds of signs, some subtle and others crystal clear.

I will be talking to my banker today after receiving an Arbitration Agreement that says if there's a "dispute" with the bank, I am not entitled to a jury trial or even a trial in a public court. i am also not allowed to join other injured parties in a class-action lawsuit. My only recourse will be in "binding arbitration" which is levied under Federal rather than State jurisdiction.

So they are saying if we take your money you can't use the existing laws of the US or your State to get it back. You have to abide by the decision of a Federal arbiter who is certainly in the pocket of the Big Six banks.

What good are banking laws if you can't use them in a dispute with your bank?

Paris
December 27, 2011, 02:04 PM
Arbitration agreements cannot be used as a defense against illegal activity including fraud. If your bank defrauds you personally, you can bet an arbitrator won't be involved but a judge will, despite any agreement you may have signed. Additionally, for civil disputes in many cases these agreements have proven themselves to be unlawful and do not hold up in court. Just because you sign an agreement doesn't make it lawful.

Skribs
December 27, 2011, 02:12 PM
I think a lot of it may have to do with all the Black Friday violence, too. How many people were pepper sprayed (not because they deserved it, but because the sprayer wanted to cut in line), beaten, stabbed, or shot at Walmart on Nov 25 this year?

Hoppes Love Potion
December 27, 2011, 02:25 PM
I didn't sign any agreement; there is nothing to sign. It goes into effect on Feb 15 as a condition of having an account there. If my account is active on that date, I have implicitly agreed to those terms.

Ask the customers at MF Global how those banking laws are working out for them. Someone has stolen their cash and gold. Maybe with a brace of expensive lawyers and years of court actions they can get "some" of their property back.

The laws aren't rigged for the little guy.

Ghost Tracker
December 27, 2011, 02:26 PM
I think a lot of it may have to do with all the Black Friday violence, too. I think that's more of a symptom than a cause. But as more (and more, and more) folks look for reasons to reinforce something that they're already frightened about, the more "obvious examples" they're gonna' find. We're GREAT at connecting the dots. (Yet, the "dot connectors" may, indeed, BE RIGHT!)

Paris
December 27, 2011, 02:28 PM
You signed or verbally agreed to something when you opened the account, and that included the right of the bank to change terms and conditions on the account as they see fit. That's not the point though.

Wanderling
December 27, 2011, 02:29 PM
Sorry but I am really sick & tired of labels like "Anti-Gun Liberals" or "Conservative Republicans".

I am a moderate with both liberal and conservative views (depends on subject). I refuse to be molded into a pre-fabricated set of ideas that each party sells.

The biggest and most idiotic assault of the basis of free Republic just came from a Republican Newt G., who basically said that as a President he should be free to disregard the Supreme Court rulings he disagrees with, or even send the US Marshals to arrest any judge he feels like. That's basically giving President dictatorial powers - the ability to decide what the law is without consulting anyone else.

George W Bush was a free-spending, law ignoring, freedom bashing big government Radical.

Jimmy Carter, arguably the worst president in recent history, was a Democrat.

On the other hand, Harry Truman (D), Ronald Reagan (R), George Bush Sr (R), and even Clinton (D) were not bad presidents - granted they each made their own share of mistakes, but overall I think these guys knew what they were doing.

Sorry for the rant !

Paris
December 27, 2011, 02:32 PM
Wanderling I share your political landscape views (and disagree on the Presidents) and I think that most people actually are independent centrists, as am I. The truth is the far radical left and right shout louder than everyone else, even though combined they are the minority. Anyway, that's enough of that lest the mods lock this baby up, which may be inevitable.

heeler
December 27, 2011, 02:41 PM
I personally think something is very definitely on non gun owners minds.
My point in case was Christmas day.
I was with my Daughter and girlfriend celebrating and after the presents were opened I was served a nice roast dinner as Christmas is also my birthday and my girlfriend informed me her preacher and his wife and kids would be dropping by.
Next thing I know I am in a gun conversation with the preacher(he knows I love hunting,but has never thought to highly of firearms) and he's asking me for help in choosing a home defense gun.
He lives in a far better area than I do but here lately they too have had their share of home burglaries and home invasions,which by the way are quite common in Houston,so after talking with him I convinced him to take a NRA shooting course or find a reputable trainer and to take it from there.
Since the guy is nearly forty years old and has never even owned a gun,let alone fired one,I certainly felt it best he gets a decent teacher to get him where he needs to be.
Wonders never cease.

Paris
December 27, 2011, 02:52 PM
These anecdotes are hardly scientific - actually they aren't at all. I'm not one to put down a person's personal experience, on the contrary it is most valuable in the right context. Having said that, to draw conclusions from these separate and unrelated incidents, however similar, is certainly a flawed prospect.

People like order and organization. It's human nature. We like to understand things. We like to see problems and solutions. We like to know that events have a purpose. Sometimes though, we try to apply order to naturally randomized environments, and despite our advanced knowledge and intelligence, we do it upon instinct. One has to step away and examine a situation and recognize what it really is, not what we want or need it to be to satisfy our desire for order, understanding and above all else - conclusion.

Rail Driver
December 27, 2011, 02:58 PM
These anecdotes are hardly scientific - actually they aren't at all. I'm not one to put down a person's personal experience, on the contrary it is most valuable in the right context. Having said that, to draw conclusions from these separate and unrelated incidents, however similar, is certainly a flawed prospect.

People like order and organization. It's human nature. We like to understand things. We like to see problems and solutions. We like to know that events have a purpose. Sometimes though, we try to apply order to naturally randomized environments, and despite our advanced knowledge and intelligence, we do it upon instinct. One has to step away and examine a situation and recognize what it really is, not what we want or need it to be to satisfy our desire for order, understanding and above all else - conclusion.
Paris, a society is measured by behavioral patterns. The increasing awareness of self defense as shown by the anecdotal evidence noted here is only unscientific because the sample is loaded... we're on a gun forum. The thing about it is that any one of you can go to CNN, ABC, NBC, New York Times, Myspace, Facebook, or any other news, media or social networking site and you can see the pattern of increased awareness of crime, violence and the increased desire to defend against such.

All in all, while our evidence here is hardly a scientific sampling, there is evidence all around you of this. Refusing to see it, or acknowledge it doesn't change it.

crazyjennyblack
December 27, 2011, 03:04 PM
I found it interesting a couple of weeks ago that my parents will be taking a concealed carry class in January. My mom is ok with guns and has a rifle and a pistol in the house for defense, but my dad has always disliked them. He has a revolver, but never shoots it. They both pooh-poohed me for a while about me getting my license, but now they are both determined to take the class. Neither one will tell me what has changed, and that's what has me curious.

Dad normally isn't the kind of guy to even care where his revolver is, but a week before they announced their intention to get their licenses, he started asking me "So where do I keep that thing anyways?" :uhoh: I'm just glad that I put it safely in a lock box with ammo in an easy place for him to find, but it worries me that I've had to remind him of its location 3 times in the last year...

I agree that something is up. I've had a couple of people I know at work randomly start conversations about getting a carry license "just in case, you know..." And I live in a nice small town area, too....

Paris
December 27, 2011, 03:22 PM
Paris, a society is measured by behavioral patterns. The increasing awareness of self defense as shown by the anecdotal evidence noted here is only unscientific because the sample is loaded... we're on a gun forum. The thing about it is that any one of you can go to CNN, ABC, NBC, New York Times, Myspace, Facebook, or any other news, media or social networking site and you can see the pattern of increased awareness of crime, violence and the increased desire to defend against such.

All in all, while our evidence here is hardly a scientific sampling, there is evidence all around you of this. Refusing to see it, or acknowledge it doesn't change it.

The fact that this is an uncontrolled compilation of data on a gun forum is only one small reason this idea that some societal pressure valve is near bursting is unwarranted.

People paying more attention is good and as would be expected, more discussion exists due to this fact, more conversations, as noted in this thread.

That does not mean however that the frequency of these events or probably of greater events to occur is increased at all. There is no evidence for this. As we know, from correctly gathered data that violent crime is decreasing. The number of educated people on the planet is increasing. The supply of food is increasing and so on and so forth.

Again, stating the "evidence is all around" does not serve as substitute for a factual argument for this line of thinking. It just doesn't. Based on this, to draw some kind of conclusion that the world is headed for spiral free fall some time in the near future because more people are paying attention is just, well, foolish. No offense intended to you.

Rail Driver
December 27, 2011, 03:29 PM
The fact that this is an uncontrolled compilation of data on a gun forum is only one small reason this idea that some societal pressure valve is near bursting is unwarranted.

People paying more attention is good and as would be expected, more discussion exists due to this fact, more conversations, as noted in this thread.

That does not mean however that the frequency of these events or probably of greater events to occur is increased at all. There is no evidence for this. As we know, from correctly gathered data that violent crime is decreasing. The number of educated people on the planet is increasing. The supply of food is increasing and so on and so forth.

Again, stating the "evidence is all around" does not serve as substitute for a factual argument for this line of thinking. It just doesn't. Based on this, to draw some kind of conclusion that the world is headed for spiral free fall some time in the near future because more people are paying attention is just, well, foolish. No offense intended to you.
So simply by you stating that things are hunky dory makes it so? That makes me curious... How do you explain the hundreds of thousands of homeless in this country? The millions of starving people in countries around the world? What about the fact that our unemployment rate here is approaching Great Depression era levels? Do you have articles and studies you can cite that show a dropping crime rate that are conducted by objective organizations? At least most of us have cited personal experience or data that can be verified with little work... Where is the contradictory proof that you're talking about?

Go tell the Greek population that they have enough food and crime is down... Try doing that in London. I'm sure all the protests, riots and public outcry will simply cease when you enlighten these people with the "fact" that their problems are just in their imagination.

Paris
December 27, 2011, 03:37 PM
So simply by you stating that things are hunky dory makes it so? That makes me curious... How do you explain the hundreds of thousands of homeless in this country? The millions of starving people in countries around the world? What about the fact that our unemployment rate here is approaching Great Depression era levels? Do you have articles and studies you can cite that show a dropping crime rate that are conducted by objective organizations? At least most of us have cited personal experience or data that can be verified with little work... Where is the contradictory proof that you're talking about?

Go tell the Greek population that they have enough food and crime is down... Try doing that in London. I'm sure all the protests, riots and public outcry will simply cease when you enlighten these people with the "fact" that their problems are just in their imagination.

You're right. The world IS ending. I saw it on CNN, and ten people in the office who also saw it on CNN spoke to me about it, therefore it's happening.

Again, nothing I have said makes it so, just like nothing you have said makes it so, just like none of the stories in this thread make it so.

Increased visibility of events does not mean increased frequency or increasingly escalated events, it just means more people are watching, which you have admitted. Yes, that includes Greece. The fall of the USSR was by far a greater event than Greece is today, and guess what, with all their nukes and armies and issues which had a real affect on the planet - it kept going, and it will keep going.

It sounds like you really want this to happen.

Paris
December 27, 2011, 03:44 PM
I also find it hilarious that you're implying that because I don't agree we're going to hell in a hand basket that is somehow a denial that bad things happen, happen every day and will continue to happen. I find that connotation to be intellectually dishonest, but perhaps I've just mistaken your intent.

Ghost Tracker
December 27, 2011, 03:47 PM
I'm, personally, not suggesting that anything is anyone's imagination. Hunger & violence are real. I just believe where ever anyone EVER finds them self, in ANY circumstances, that THEY have made a series of small, seemingly unrelated decisions & actions that's put them EXACTLY where they are. It's a universal truth, always active & in play. I would like us to imagine, discuss & evaluate what we might individually & collectively do to make a series of DIFFERENT decisions & actions to change the eventual outcome. We can and, I would suggest that, we MUST.

Paris
December 27, 2011, 04:07 PM
Agreed!

Friendly, Don't Fire!
December 27, 2011, 04:09 PM
Apparently, the magnetic polar shift is overdue by about 500,000 years. Add to that the possibility of an EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse) weapon used and it would wipe out the majority of anything that runs on electricity or uses electricity. Suddenly, no motor vehicles, everything dead in its tracks, no refrigeration, no computers, no communication. How long in big cities until people have no food at all? No McDonnnals, No Sudway, No Dunko-Donuts. People are getting hungrier by the minute. It would get to the point where people would eat anything. Suddenly, we would be in the stone-age, but with so many more people and all this junk around us that doesn't work.:confused:

Rail Driver
December 27, 2011, 04:15 PM
I also find it hilarious that you're implying that because I don't agree we're going to hell in a hand basket that is somehow a denial that bad things happen, happen every day and will continue to happen. I find that connotation to be intellectually dishonest, but perhaps I've just mistaken your intent.
First, assuming that I (or anyone you don't know) would want something like this to happen because I happen to be pointing my finger at things that are currently going on, that everyone can see for themselves is a faulty assumption. You're still not showing any studies, data or anything other than your own opinion (admittedly the only actual evidence I've shown are events around the world, but those are recorded in easy to find places) and you're attacking the person instead of the argument. Calling me dishonest in any fashion is something I take offense to for starters. It's rude, and I'm sorry that your parents didn't teach you how to speak respectfully. To clear that up for you, I never said the world is ending, going to hell in a handbasket, or even that it is in a downward spiral. I do agree that something is going on in the minds of the American people that has more of them preparing to, and defending themselves. I do agree that violent (and other) crimes are receiving more attention from the media than they have in the past (I also have an opinion on the reason for this, but that's for another thread). I don't agree that crime is declining. I don't believe that for a minute and public record will stand that. Go check out the docket for your local county circuit court and get an average number of cases per month, then go to the library and look for the average number of court cases through that circuit court for the same months 15 or 20 years ago and you'll see what I mean. While you're at it, go ahead and be thorough and get the monthly averages over those 15 or 20 years and make a chart. It's pretty likely that you'll see a marked INCREASE in cases. I did a research paper for one of my A.S. classes last year into crime rate trends, using Macomb County, Michigan as my example. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I think it was close to a 16% increase in violent crime from 1980 to 2010. That's 30 years. There are dips and rises, but the overall trend is an increase. Sure, that's just one area for one period of time, but then look at san francisco, just in the past 3 days there have been too many crimes to plot on the map. http://www.crimemapping.com/map/ca/sanfrancisco

But hey, it's alright. That 5.5% decrease in violent crime overall in 2010 only masks the fact that instead of being measured in the dozens and hundreds like they were in the 40's and 50's, crimes are measured in the hundreds and thousands now.

Ky Larry
December 27, 2011, 04:15 PM
Remember, the "news" we see on the networks is being provided by people who have lied to us for years. It's the same old "If it bleeds, it leads." IIRC, it's called spin. The news media frightened us for years with mad cow disease in our food supply .When all was said and done, 2 people in the entire world died from it.

The story about the world ending next December is like the story about all the airplanes falling out of the sky on Y2K.

America has been thru tremendous social, political, and economic changes before and, no doubt, will go thru them again. What happened to our American "can do" attitude? If you're afraid of our future, then change it. Let's start by throwing every politician at every level out of office next year. We have the means to do that readily avaiable to us.

Larry Ashcraft
December 27, 2011, 04:18 PM
This one went off the rails on the second page (last place I saw an on topic post).

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