Jeep-mounted machine guns

I, being a WWII fanatic have spent lots of time around the old warhorses of the past. A lot of times I will see a Willys Jeep with, most commonly, a Browning M1919 gun mounted up top. This led me to wonder, is it possible that those guns are fully- functional firearms, or they semi-auto or possibly even fake or disabled guns? Also, what would the rules be if I wanted to sometime in the future mount a gun on a Jeep? I mean, the gun is "in plain sight" isn't it? Thanks.

Many of the guns you'd see mounted on (civilian-owned) military vehicles in parades are "DEWAT" guns (deactivated war trophy) that can no longer function. Or, they are original machine gun parts kits built on a dummy receiver that can't load or fire ammo. That's the cheapest way to have the right look without legal hassles.

Some may be semi-auto rebulds of the original machine gun. In that case, the standard rules for any Title I "other firearm" apply. Whether you can roll down the street with one openly mounted on your vehicle is going to depend on state law. If you can possess a firearm in public and carry it openly, then you should be legal -- so long as you don't in any way interact with it that might be seen as threatening someone else and/or "brandishing" that firearm.

In a few cases, collectors of "NFA regulated Title II" machine guns do participate in various demonstrations and public displays. Except for the form 5320.20 to cross state lines, the same basic rules usually apply as to carrying around a Title I firearm, except the stakes tend to be a lot higher if you're accused of screwing up somehow. Losing a $40,000 WWII original machine gun to the police evidence locker because someone claimed you did something inappropriate with it ... would SUCK.

I've taken registered, live MG's (modified to fire blanks) to WWI and WWII reenactments. As Sam1911 stated, this requires an approved ATF Form 5320.20 if the event is in a state other than your home state. (These permissions are routinely granted.) In addition, some states (including Virginia and Maryland) have something called the "Uniform Machine Gun Act," which creates a (rebuttable) presumption of illegality if a machine gun is possessed off-premises. http://law.onecle.com/virginia/crimes-and-offenses-generally/18.2-291.html A reenactment or organized shoot is a legal use that rebuts this presumption, but you still have to be careful. Mounting the MG on a jeep on the way to the event might be considered brandishing and thus fall outside the scope of the exemption. Once there, you're safe mounting the MG. (I once did this even in the District of Columbia, with advance written ATF and DC Metropolitian Police permission. Believe it or not.)

Most MG's seen at historical military vehicle events are non-shootable dummies, although some of them look quite realistic.

Wow, this helped out a lot guys. Haha yeah, people might decide you are "brandishing" the weapon esp. in the city where liberals roam. But I bet you would never get anyone cutting you off in traffic with one of those suckers up there. Ken W.- I also have Combat! season 1, and am looking to buy season 2 sometime as well.

Don't forget about the dewats that are converted for blankfire only
you can put a belt of blanks in them, but the they are usually modified in a way that using live rounds is dangerous to deadly.

[Anything else on the actual question? This isn't OldTVShows.com ... ;)]

The "Tired Iron" (military vehicle) displays I have seen at a local air show and a few years at the local fun fest used non-gun relicas. Accurate repros but non-firing.

Legal and intelligent are very different things.
There is many entirely legal stupid things to do many places.
People that make a habit of doing legal stupid things often encourage other people to outlaw the activity.


If you are one of the first to do something legal and stupid, expect cops that deal with you to be unsure if it is legal and act accordingly. If there is no case law reiterating the definition, expect some prosecutor to make up their own law by interpreting something already on the books in a way that outlaws what may be legal, with statute that originally meant something entirely different.
It may get nowhere, it may get overturned in appeals or sadly sometimes a made up interpretation actually is ruled in favor of by some higher court establishing it as a correct interpretation of the law.


Putting a gun on a turret in your vehicle is either going to cause people to ignore you thinking you are military, maybe get you charged for impersonating if your vehicle is the right look and color of an official vehicle, or think you are a criminal or organized crime (the cartels make armored vehicles in Mexico) and act accordingly.
If you survive the initial encounter, and the activity is determined legal, and the police become informed that it is legal, they will leave you alone from then on in that local jurisdiction.
However people will be working to outlaw the activity if you continue to drive around that way, or others follow your example and begin to. They would probably succeed within a couple years of passing legislation that made it a crime.

However playing devil's advocate:
I can certainly see a turret with a mount or mechanism that locked the gun in a fixed position being technically legal in some jurisdictions, at which point in all honesty it would be no different than a gun rack. Just more exotic looking. Now if someone started playing with it that would change.

Valid concerns, Zoogster, but I think the OP is asking about vintage military hardware (and period-correct firearms) for use in parades and demonstrations. Not just adding a pintle mount to his '95 Wrangler to cruise the mall with a Barret on top.

...Right?... :scrutiny:

The

Also, what would the rules be if I wanted to sometime in the future mount a gun on a Jeep? I mean, the gun is "in plain sight" isn't it? Thanks.

Caused me to think he may also be considering the legality of mounting his own gun on his own jeep at some point. Perhaps on a newer model jeep, and/or with civilian colors.

Well...yeah...that might just fall into the category of "well, duh"!

Caused me to think he may also be considering the legality of mounting his own gun on his own jeep at some point. Perhaps on a newer model jeep, and/or with civilian colors.



Pssh..... Those new Jeeps? Never. Those things are luxury cars. I never want to touch anyjeep older than a '45. So yeah, I just would want to mount a gun (unloaded, of course) on a Willys and call it good. I was wondering if it would be legal to do so. Oh, and FYI I am not sure if anyone would think I am military cause they havent used the Willys since WWII (unless you count the Fords of Vietnam) and I don't think drug smugglers would use a historic collector's item for their dirty work. LOL.

I will be putting a pintle for my live Vickers on the roll bar of my '48 Willys...don't plan to drive down the street that way though, just for fun shooting it on my own property.

That's nice man. Don't (old) Jeeps and guns go so nice together? Is your Vickers full-auto?

Early military jeeps (WWII - M38 - M38A1) have a machine gun mounting plate on the frame. Look underneath the vehicle, under the rear floor, and there should be a round or square plate welded to a frame crossmember. This may or may not have holes pre-drilled. It's for bolting the M25 - M31 - M31C post mounts. Unless an MG was previously mounted, you'll have to drill the holes through the floor sheet metal. Repro post mounts are available. Then you have to add a cradle on the top of the post.

Pssh..... Those new Jeeps? Never. Those things are luxury cars. I never want to touch anyjeep older than a '45. So yeah, I just would want to mount a gun (unloaded, of course) on a Willys and call it good. I was wondering if it would be legal to do so. Oh, and FYI I am not sure if anyone would think I am military cause they havent used the Willys since WWII (unless you count the Fords of Vietnam) and I don't think drug smugglers would use a historic collector's item for their dirty work. LOL.
Willys made the Korea-era M38 and M38A1, which were the end of the flat fendered military jeeps (small 'j').

Ford and Willys both made jeeps (G503) during WWII. Ford called their models "GP" and "GPW." Willys called theirs, "MA" and "MB." They made something like 280k and 330k, respectively.

I have a 1944 GPW, delivered on July 12, 1944, which makes it late production.

Ford made later jeep-like version, like the M151 mutt. Interestingly, the jeep, stamped verticle bar grill was designed by Ford, who had to use a horizontal bar configuration on the M151 because, by then, Willys had trademarked the verticle WWII version.

Here in AZ I have seen many armored vehicles with machine guns mounted, but I always assumed they DEWAT or replica non-guns, as they were parked outside, and nobody leaves that type of investment outside. The funniest was the liquor store on 1st Ave in Tucson, where the owner collected military vehicles. He would have a Greyhound outside with Ma Deuce mounted, and big Budweiser posters hanging on both sides. The worst was some unknown 105mm SP gun, British, I am thinking, that he parked with the main gun pointed right at a local spaghetti shop, kitty corner across the intersection. Business..ahem..."suffered" slightly.

Willys made the Korea-era M38 and M38A1, which were the end of the flat fendered military jeeps (small 'j').

Ford and Willys both made jeeps (G503) during WWII. Ford called their models "GP" and "GPW." Willys called theirs, "MA" and "MB." They made something like 280k and 330k, respectively.

I have a 1944 GPW, delivered on July 12, 1944, which makes it late production.

Ford made later jeep-like version, like the M151 mutt. Interestingly, the jeep, stamped verticle bar grill was designed by Ford, who had to use a horizontal bar configuration on the M151 because, by then, Willys had trademarked the verticle WWII version. Sorry, I messed up my facts....I was tired, you know ;). That is cool you own a jeep. As long it is made before Korea, it is a JEEP! LOL, I am getting off topic....the mods are gonna get me for this!