Least expensive place for Texas Weapon System (or other low AK) rail?


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Deus Machina
December 28, 2011, 02:43 AM
I got money for Christmas. :D Now it's time to put down a bit for a proper optic mount for the Saiga.

I like the TWS rail, but as a student, $140 plus the peep sight is a bit higher than I want to spend, if I can help it. If I can't, I'll just dig deeper into the wallet.

So, anyone seen these for less anywhere? Or other, less expensive low-and-center mounts that attach to the side rail?

I'd be happy enough to modify them to add a peep sight, but I don't want a reflex sight so high my cheek weld involves my chin. Especially with the AR-centric market on sights, right now.

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JHenry
December 28, 2011, 03:44 AM
Well i dont want to tell you what to buy but dust cover mounting systems have a horrible reputation for bouncing around and losing their zero. IDK if they did something special to make it more stable(for $140 i certainly hope so).

They do make a rail that runs the length of the dust cover that attachs to the FSB and rear trunion. It makes your ak a pain to disessamble and the cheek weld gets pretty bad but it is pretty solid for optics.

Personally if it were me, i would just keep the AK stock because optic mounts were a bit of an after-thought for the design. Start saving for a flat top AR, or some other battle rifle that had optic mounts as part of the design process, they much more accesory friendly and you can by-pass the side mounts/unstable dust cover mounts.

wally
December 28, 2011, 07:59 AM
They do make a rail that runs the length of the dust cover that attaches to the FSB and rear trunion.

The TWS rail is one of them.


It makes your ak a pain to disassemble

Not really it has a quick release that mounts to the rear trunion so the rail flips up making it easy to remove the cover and bolt carrier.

wnycollector
December 28, 2011, 10:17 AM
other, less expensive low-and-center mounts that attach to the side rail?

This will save you a few $$$ compared to the TWS http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=433

I'm also looking for a red dot mount for my converted 7.62x39 Saiga. I think I may go with the ultimak M1-B for my TRS-25 red dot. The cost is below $100 plus most reviews say that you can actually get a cheek weld with the ultimak.

Rob G
December 28, 2011, 10:45 AM
You actually have several options but mostly they're all expensive.

1. TWS Dog Leg Scope rail (you already know that one)

2. Parabellum Armament AKARS mount - pretty similiar concept to the TWS mount just done differntly.
http://www.parabellumarmament.com/pasite/akarshome.htm

3. MI mini dot mount - About $80 but limited to only working with a few specific red dot sites. Really nice though
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=421

4. Ultimak rail - not bad although I don't like that the optics mount so far forward, but that's a personal thing.
http://ultimak.com/M1-b.htm

5. The MI side rail that a previous poster mentioned.

These are all pretty good options that have been tested and shown to hold zero and aren't horribly complicated to install. Good luck and have fun with your AK!

wnycollector
December 28, 2011, 12:07 PM
MI mini dot mount - About $80 but limited to only working with a few specific red dot sites. Really nice though

I wish they offered this mount with a standard 1913 Picatinny Rail rather than the just optic specific. For $80 is is a steal.

Cal-gun Fan
December 28, 2011, 12:12 PM
The TWS mount is great. It has the most mounting space of any AK mount, mounts it the lowest, and adds no weight to the rifle. Its built like a tank too.

AK103K
December 28, 2011, 02:23 PM
Ive had Ultimaks mounted on a couple of AK's since they first came out, and have yet to find anything better. They are well made, rock solid, and so far, the only mount Ive found that will allow you to cowitness a red dot to the factory iron sights.

The rifle shoulders and shoots just like it does with your iron sights and with the same cheek weld. With the sight mounted forward, its out of the way of both handling and your field of view, and makes fast shooting very easy and natural.

Rob G
December 28, 2011, 02:42 PM
the only mount Ive found that will allow you to cowitness a red dot to the factory iron sights.

The TWS dog leg, MI midi dot, and Parabellum AKARS also allow for this, depending of course on exactly which red dot you're using. They also all sit just below the rear sight so you can get a good cheek weld.

wally
December 28, 2011, 08:27 PM
Ultimaks ... the only mount Ive found that will allow you to cowitness a red dot to the factory iron sights.

The TWS dog leg, MI midi dot, and Parabellum AKARS also allow for this

How do you figure since they replace the factory rear sight?

The TWS has an optional peep sight that is actually quite nice, the MI has a factory-like rear built in(minus the elevation adjustments), as does the AKARS (from the photos, not actually seen one yet).

But to say they allow co-witness is wishful thinking -- maybe lower 1/3 but lower 1/5 is more like it, and the selection of red dots that allows it is very very limited.

With my TWS rail I chose to use "see under" mounts for my Vortex Strike-fire, while not "perfect" it is serviceable should the batteries or sight be dead -- which with my old eyes, even handicapped by the see-threw mounts, I find I do a bit better with than with the factory notch.

Cal-gun Fan
December 28, 2011, 08:30 PM
No-a raised section connects to the rear sight. The top of the rail for the TWS mount is the same level as the top of the normal dust cover.

R.W.Dale
December 28, 2011, 08:49 PM
Like the op I was dissatisfied with my optic mount options for my saiga 308

My soultion was to weld some Weaver mounts to my gas tube.

Works great and was stupid cheap

http://img.tapatalk.com/a6cd0b60-c6ff-ac6f.jpg

Pre camo job so disregard the silver

posted via tapatalk using android.

AK103K
December 28, 2011, 08:54 PM
After looking at the TWS site, I see they have made a couple of changes for the positive. The rail I saw must have been an earlier model, as the rail sat higher, and the rear latch looked very bulky and painful if your accustomed to shouldering and shooting an AK using the iron sights. The new latch looks a lot better, but they could have still rounded things off some. I dont like the looks of those sharp edges.

Personally, I still prefer the sight forward, and out of the way, but thats me. l like them like that on most things, including my AR's, which I have mounted forward on their flattops, on cantilever mounts. having less junk in your face makes for less distractions and a lot better view.

I suppose if youre using a scope the TWS would be the way to go, but I dont see the point of a scope on something like an AK, so its not something Id be interested in. I dont have a problem with the stock AK sights either, and find them better for fast, close to mid range shooting over a peep. So that option really isnt an interest either.

Cal-gun Fan
December 28, 2011, 09:13 PM
The AK works great with scopes. Don't put a 4-12 or something on it, but a simple 1-4 or 2-7 is great.

AK103K
December 28, 2011, 09:28 PM
Just not my cup of tea. :)

I dont like them on my AR's either, although I do have a 1.5x5 on one of them.

To me, a good red dot makes the most sense for both.

Deus Machina
December 28, 2011, 11:06 PM
Well, it looks like I may have found a TWS used. Just fine by me. :)

I've seen them on rifles, and the second-generation ones do look better and are probably a little more stable. The first-gen ones looked fine--and I could have copied it well enough if I fired up the mill, but it would cost more than just buying it after the trial and error--but were blocky behind.

The reason I prefer the TWS style is because I press my cheek solidly to the stock, and thus have a fairly low line of sight. Even the view on an Ultimak is a bit high if the dot is anywhere near center. I'm also just not a fan of mounting optics so far up, especially on a rifle that's already a bit frontheavy.

I don't have anything against the stock AK sights, but I do prefer peep sights. This will be getting one, and may be meeting up with the milling machine to get something special custom-made for it.

RIATAC45
December 28, 2011, 11:45 PM
My wife bought me a MI mini dot mount and a primary arms mini dot for Christmas. I haven't got a chance to go zero it yet, but so far I like it. It has good height for proper cheek weld, and cowitness. I have seen some reviews saying that it is not the best for rough service, but for most range duty it should be fine. I plan to use mine for range/hog duty.

AK103K
December 29, 2011, 08:10 AM
Well, it looks like I may have found a TWS used.
Let us know how it works out and what you think of it once you get to shoot it.

JHenry
December 29, 2011, 02:19 PM
nevermind

Cal-gun Fan
December 29, 2011, 02:26 PM
There is no gen 3? The Gen 2 is the current one.

JHenry
December 29, 2011, 02:33 PM
your right, my eyes decieve me. But on there website looks like its an entire dustcover but on google images i can see where it is just an rail that runs over it.

http://texasweaponsystems.com/id1.html

Cal-gun Fan
December 29, 2011, 02:35 PM
Yeah, I believe that the rail that went over the receiver was the first design, then they found that they could incorporate the rail into the dust cover itself. Doing so allows the lowest possible mounting position, making for a great cheek weld.

Rob G
December 29, 2011, 02:46 PM
There will probably be a Gen 3 TWS mount soon. The guy who designed it is an active member on AK47.net. There's a 77 page thread over there that starts years ago with the concept for the first generation and you can pretty much follow the evolution of the design over time.

Anyway, recently it's been active again and apparently he's working on incorporating a rear sight in to the design that'll sit where the factory one does. It'll also be of a similiar shape as the factory sight. There's a picture of the prototype up and it looks pretty nice.

wnycollector
December 29, 2011, 03:45 PM
he's working on incorporating a rear sight in to the design that'll sit where the factory one does.

I like the Gen 2 rear peep option. You get a peep sight PLUS an extra 9" of sight radius. I just wish the peep was adjustable for windage and elevation...similar to the Tech-Sight TRS200.

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