What's the Dealer's responsibility?


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BigN
December 28, 2011, 07:19 AM
I bought a new handgun in March of this year. It's now disabled again and heading back to the manufacturer for repair, for the 4th time this year. This time, in addition to locking up at the range, the firing pin blew out and hit me in the face. I'm done with the gun. What's the dealer's responsibility for a replacement for this gun? By the way, it's a Taurus Tracker in 44 mag and it's been a nightmare. I don't want the gun back but I do need a 44 replacement, of another brand. Should he take this back as new? Give me credit for another? I want to know what my options are before I go back to his shop.

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heeler
December 28, 2011, 07:50 AM
Zero.
My dealer clearly has a sign on the wall that problems with a firearm is between the buyer and the manufacturer.
A good dealer may help in sending it back for repairs to keep the cost down to you if the maker wont send you a prepaid shipping label.
I ran into this issue with my Diamondback 380.
Fortunately DB's customer service is really great and they sent me the prepaid UPS labels three times.
Not sure about Taurus.

Remllez
December 28, 2011, 07:58 AM
The dealer may act as an intermediary on your behalf but I'm not sure he's legally obligated to do much of anything....He isn't the manufacturer, just a reseller so unfortunately you may be stuck with the Taurus warranty department.

AABEN
December 28, 2011, 08:00 AM
Sounds like you were using hot loads.

BigN
December 28, 2011, 08:04 AM
There were no hot loads. When all this lock up started, I was using 240 gr with mid range loads. I figured I'd get some 180's and try some mild loads, that's what I was using yesterday. It won't even shoot those.

Hk Dan
December 28, 2011, 08:10 AM
Man, I hate to be harsh, but you bought a Taurus.

Complaining about trips back to the factory is a little like buying a Lorcin and complaining about reliability and fit and finish. Mine went back 3 times before I deemed it "right" and sold it.

No, the dealer doesn't have any responsibility in your situation. You bought a turd and are complaining that it smells bad. Now the dealer knew that it smelled bad and if he didn't give you an olafactory warning ahead of time I wouldn't buy from him again, but his job is over once the gun is in your hands. Now it's between you and the turd maker.

Davek1977
December 28, 2011, 08:20 AM
I'm sorry about your situation, but the dealer has no real obligation here. He certainly isn't obligated to buy it back at full price, or at any price.

Bubbles
December 28, 2011, 08:28 AM
While the dealer has no obligation to take it back, there is at least one distributor (Davidson's?) that will let dealers return firearms with problems for a free replacement. So, it may be worth checking to see if your dealer purchased it from them. Otherwise you need to work it out with the manufacturer.

BobTheTomato
December 28, 2011, 08:43 AM
As others have suggested, a good dealer will be a go between with the mfg. This service would be the benefit of buying local.

Sam1911
December 28, 2011, 09:17 AM
There are two threads on Taurus guns right now ("What's Wrong with Taurus?" (closed) and "What's Right with Taurus?" (open)) where members are sharing their Taurus customer service experiences.

One of the members who posted carried the fight way up the chain and got the company to make good on a situation like yours. He might have some advice to share.

I'll try to find his posts so you can learn from his work.

(Found it: http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7811537&postcount=126)

JohnJak
December 28, 2011, 09:32 AM
Dealer sold it, Taurus made it.

Loosedhorse
December 28, 2011, 10:06 AM
Zero.+1

Most dealers like customers, and out of courtesy will help in whatever way they can--call the manufacturer rep, etc. (Like most of us, his motivation to help may suffer if he receives a lot of "what you need to do" attitude from the customer.) Some dealers have more pull than others. But it is the manufacturer that warranties the product.

Used guns can be different, with the shop sometimes offering a brief "test" period (if it doesn't work, they reverse the sale); and less often selling the gun "as is" (translation: you're stuck, sucker--caveat emptor).

Paris
December 28, 2011, 04:20 PM
Those saying strictly no might not be completely correct.

The questions to answer are: Did the dealer offer a warranty outside of what the factory offers? What is the dealer's exchange policy?

You need to find those things out.

Robert
December 28, 2011, 04:28 PM
Should he take this back as new? Give me credit for another?
No. The return policy is probably something along the lines of X days AND unfired. Both of which has long since passed. Now if he is a reasonable seller he will assist in working with the manufacturer to get the issues resolved, but he really does not "owe" you anything.

dev_null
December 28, 2011, 04:38 PM
Out of curiosity, anyone know if lemon laws apply to the mfg here?

bigfatdave
December 28, 2011, 04:57 PM
why should they?

do you really want big daddy government to step in and deal with every industry?

MistWolf
December 28, 2011, 05:15 PM
This is not the dealer's fault. But it wouldn't hurt to talk to the dealer in a friendly and professional manner. Who knows, the dealer might work out a killer deal with you.

Put the pressure on Taurus. Tell them you want a new pistol. You can then sell the pistol or see if the dealer will give you a good trade-in on it. (It's likely that the price they give you for trade-in will be significantly less than what you paid. They have to make money on it when they re-sell it)

essayons21
December 28, 2011, 07:53 PM
While the dealer has no responsibility, it won't hurt to bring to them the issues you are having. They may be upstanding and help you out, whether with a refund, exchange, or maybe just some help with the Taurus warranty department.

InkEd
December 28, 2011, 08:10 PM
Contact them and tell the manufacturer you want a new gun. You may be able to get a different model from them. The dealer owes you nothing.

NavyLCDR
December 28, 2011, 08:58 PM
Dealer's responsibility =




Note: there is nothing past the equal sign.

BigN
December 29, 2011, 10:09 AM
I sent the gun back to Taurus yesterday. When it comes back repaired, it'll be traded in on whatever strikes my fancy.

Ryanxia
December 29, 2011, 04:03 PM
Dealer responsibility is zero.

I'm surprised, I hear these horror stories of Taurus but have owned several and never had any real issues with the exception of sending something in twice and having it come back flawless (take that as you may but that's pretty good in my book).

Hit_Factor
December 29, 2011, 04:51 PM
If the dealer is a factory authorized repair center (like a new car dealer) they will be reimbursed for the repair by the manufacturer.

If they are not, everything the LGS does for you is more than required.

You may ship your gun in for service without involving an FFL holder.

If you involve the Dealer in the problem resolution he will incur some kind of costs. To recoup those costs he might have to charge a little more for the items he sells.

For the vast majority of LGS the buyer has a warranty with the manufacturer, not the dealer.

If the manufacturer ends up sending you a new gun it will require transfer to you. So offer to pay the transfer fee. The dealer will have paperwork time, and a lifetime of storing that paperwork. Not to mention he has a business (one of several gaols is to make money), license to help you, maybe an SBA loan to pay, rent, utilities ect.

Remllez
December 29, 2011, 06:26 PM
BigN,

Please tell us that Taurus is at least paying the charges to send this thing back all FOUR TIMES! I would be adamant they sent me a new gun, if they can't get it right after three times plus it injured you the last time that's the least a decent company can do.

BigN
December 29, 2011, 07:49 PM
The first 3 times I returned it through the LGS at their expense, and this time I called Taurus directly and they sent me shipping labels for FEDEX at their expense. So, I didn't pay for shipping for any of these trips.

USAF_Vet
December 29, 2011, 08:01 PM
I don't want the gun back but I do need a 44 replacement, of another brand. Should he take this back as new? Give me credit for another? I want to know what my options are before I go back to his shop.


Not gonna happen. Caveat emptor. As said, the dealer is not the manufacturer and offers zero warranty unless otherwise stated. I've never seen a dealer offer additional warranty unless it was for gunsmithing work, and then the warranty would cover that work only.

Feel free to take it back and offer it as a trade. Expect to get laughed at for wanting to trade it in as new. Once the gun left the store, it was used, just like a car. Doesn't matter it if has 70 miles or 70,000. The gun doesn't matter if it's been fired 6 times or 6,000, it's used. Expect to trade it in for about 40-55% of what it retails for new. Expect him to resell the gun for about 70-90% of new. I'm sure he would be happy to sell you another revolver, just don't expect any wild discounts just because you bought a gun from him that turned out to be a POS.

At this point, I'd be demanding that Taurus replace the gun. But yeah, your dealer only has one responsibility, and that is to not sell any guns to prohibited persons.

snubbies
December 29, 2011, 08:01 PM
I wonder what your responsibility is in trading it to a dealer or private party knowing the history of the gun and its frequent trips back to Taurus and repeated failures???

oneounceload
December 29, 2011, 08:07 PM
Get Taurus to fix it, sell gun with disclosure, buy new one of different brand from your local gun store and go enjoy

BlkHawk73
December 29, 2011, 08:19 PM
It's between the owner of the gun and the maker of the gun. Take it back as new?! WTH? Put yourself on the other side of the counter! At the worst, taurus will replace the gun and then maybe if working with the dealer, they can send him a new gun and you can opt to choose something else from him. That's entirely up to him though. That's when being a good, loyal customer can certainly pay off.

crazy-mp
December 30, 2011, 12:40 AM
I own several Taurus pistols and one rifle, I have had less problems with them than the Springfield Armory 1911 I bought.

Your dealer is in a tough situation, he did sell you the product but its not up to him to refund your money, but he should at least help you get your problem(s) resolved.

Remllez
January 5, 2012, 02:50 PM
I think Davidsons warrants the guns they sell to the point of replacement if they are found to be defective. Of course it's no help at this point but my be of help to the OP in the future.

Sav .250
January 5, 2012, 03:21 PM
The dealer is the middle man. Your beef is with the manufacturer.

PapaG
January 5, 2012, 04:45 PM
Our biggest complaint with Taurus and the guns we have to return to the "factory" or whatever it is they have in FL is that they often don't fix what is spelled out quite clearly and what often has been described over the phone to their technician. We've lost a lot of money returning Taurus guns for repair. Often, they will send us a shipping label. Sometimes not.
I have personally had a bunch of them over the years. The 85 I had shot 16" high at fifteen yards and had an atrocious trigger pull. The 94 had a horrible trigger. My Tracker 17 is wonderful, great trigger and way more accurate than any other revolver I've ever had. My Judge is "satisfactory". A 92 I had was fine with factory 9s but hated anything with lead. (A Beretta 92 I have now shoots anything).
In answer to your initial question...dealer sold you what you wanted. He should help you one time in getting it returned for repairs. He should not be asked to "buy it back". I'm pretty straightforward in telling people what we've experienced with the line. I recommend the big frame revolvers, the tracker series, and most of the autos.

Aiko492
January 5, 2012, 05:57 PM
Man, I hate to be harsh, but you bought a Taurus.

Complaining about trips back to the factory is a little like buying a Lorcin and complaining about reliability and fit and finish. Mine went back 3 times before I deemed it "right" and sold it.

No, the dealer doesn't have any responsibility in your situation. You bought a turd and are complaining that it smells bad. Now the dealer knew that it smelled bad and if he didn't give you an olafactory warning ahead of time I wouldn't buy from him again, but his job is over once the gun is in your hands. Now it's between you and the turd maker.
Yes, you are sounding harsh. Kick a man when he is down does not serve much use.

LT.Diver
January 5, 2012, 07:01 PM
The dealer should be ashamed of himself for selling anything from Taurus. They might as well start stocking Jennings, Davis, Bryco and Lorcin, and every other junk gun out there.

Sam1911
January 5, 2012, 07:31 PM
Enough already. Look, there are plenty of Taurus bashing (and even praising) threads here. The question of the dealer's responsibility seems to be answered.

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