You are going to think I'm nuts, but...


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armoredman
December 28, 2011, 03:33 PM
I may, (fingers crossed), be able to finally get the rifle I want, a DSA FAL 18" barreled carbine in 308. What does this have to do with hunting? Easy, the guy who's doing the transfer, if I get it, wants me to go bear hunting with him. AZ bear, little guys, not Kodiaks. My only other rifles are either a CZ 527M in 7.62x39mm or a vz-58 in the same caliber. Needless to say, I seriously doubt the wisdom of deliberately trying to hunt bear with that caliber!:what:
So, as I cannot afford any other rifles this year, but MIGHT be able to get a CZ 712 Utility 12 gauge auto shotgun, given ONLY these two options, nothing else, would the FAL with a 5 round mag, (and a few spares!), or the 712 18" barreled shotgun with some high quality slugs, (Brenneke?), be a better choice? Or should I simply beat myself over the head with a baseball bat and get it over with now. :):banghead:
Obviously, I am not normally a hunter, but this guy is a good guy, maybe I could play rear guard in case we get jumped by the bear. :eek:

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W.E.G.
December 28, 2011, 03:37 PM
New FAL's can have teething issues.

If you are buying this gun in anticipation of taking it on an important hunting trip right away, buy a different gun.

Sam1911
December 28, 2011, 03:40 PM
What is the expected hunting scenario? Close-in brush country with short shots, or longer-range?

A .308 will kill smaller bears easily. Many black bears here on the east coast are killed with .30-'30s. I'd almost certainly use the .308, unless you think you're going to be VERY close and might need to anchor that bear asap, in which case the slug would be beneficial.

armoredman
December 28, 2011, 03:41 PM
No, W.E.G., wouldn't be until it was broken in, sorry for not being clear about that. :) I am buying the FAL for different reasons, but the gent wishes me to go with him on a hunting trip.
Sam, I am thinking shots of 75-200 yards by the description from the experienced hunter.
Also going to relaod for this beats, but what would be good factory rounds in .308 for bear? This is all speculation at this point, of course.

CoRoMo
December 28, 2011, 04:09 PM
...7.62x39mm... I seriously doubt the wisdom of deliberately trying to hunt bear with that caliber!
It'll do.

MCgunner
December 28, 2011, 05:27 PM
Nothing wrong with 7.62x39 on black bear. It's got about as much thump as a .30-30. Wolf 154 soft point works rather well, too. Nothing wrong with a .30-30, either.

The FAL is HEAVY. Me, I'd go with my little Remington M7 Stainless in .308. It's light, it's handy, it's 3/4 MOA accurate, and it'll kill anything that breaths in the lower 48. For ammo, I use handloads, but any good 150 - 180 grain factory load that works on deer will work on black bear. They ain't wearin' kevlar.

armoredman
December 28, 2011, 05:57 PM
That's a great choice...one I don't have. :) In 7.62x39mm I have the bullet choice of 125 grain spire point, 129 grain cast lead, or 160 grain cast lead.
I do have to say my CZ 527M is a very light little carbine that I am very fond of, 5 round detachable mag, and I have extras, mini Mauser bolt action. Will be wearing a Redfield 2-7 scope by that time, but has backup irons.
I'd have thought nobody here would recommend that rifle for this type of work.
I've never owned an FAL, been lusting for one for 25 years...just never got one.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 28, 2011, 06:22 PM
Them AZ black bear are little fellas. Your 7.62x39 would be more than capable of downing one of them with efficient ease. As others stated, the old 30/30 has put down many of them in the Eastern states as well as everything else on 4 legs everywhere else. 7.62x39 pretty much has the same terminal ballistic abilities as the 30/30 with the advantage of spire point bullets for better BC and down range velocities.

Im also in agreement with MCgunner in the fact that that FAL is going to be a beast to carry. And since you will most likely be spotting and stalking (in other words a hell of a lot of walking) it would be about my last choice to carry for a bear hunt.

firesky101
December 28, 2011, 07:47 PM
7.62x39 will do fine as others have said. I have a buddy that hunts with dogs and a .22mag revolver. Well he did anyways until a bear decided he didnt want to wait at the top of a tree to get shot in the head. He dropped on top of my buddy and the idiot shot himself in the left forearm in the confusion. But up until that point he successfully harvested more than one bear with it.

armoredman
December 28, 2011, 09:07 PM
Did the bear then harvest him?


OK, so if I use the 7.62x39mm, what load? I handload this caliber, any suggestions with the aforementioned bullets?

firesky101
December 28, 2011, 09:18 PM
No he didn't have a scratch on him except for the hole in his arm, but that was his story. I do suspect sometimes that he accidentally shot himself, and that was his excuse. But I do know for a fact he had hunted with a .22 mag before. As far as bullet selection I would guess any heavy soft point would do, but I dont really enjoy the taste of bear so I have no first hand experience shooting them.

goste
December 28, 2011, 09:28 PM
Do you still have the Enfield Dave?........The 303 british is a good round...

788Ham
December 28, 2011, 09:32 PM
The 7.62X39 will suffice fine, my grandpa shot several black bear with a .250 Savage, never had any complaints about not enough gun!

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 28, 2011, 10:44 PM
First question on reloads for those 7.62x39's you have. Have you slugged the barrels to determine if they are .308 or .311? Your non American makers have a tendency to make them .311 such as most your .303 Brit Enfields. .308 will work in them but not nearly as well as a .311 will if in fact they are .311. The only loads I ever worked up for my old 7.62x39 was with some 125gr Sierra Pro hunters with 24.5gr of H4198. If I remember right (it's been a while since I pulled the old girl out) it was cooking off around 2350fps or so. Without looking, I think I used Winchester LR primers.

CoRoMo
December 29, 2011, 09:52 AM
...125 grain spire point...
Yes, if you can heat this one up above 2,300fps, it will make good medicine for a black bear.

armoredman
December 29, 2011, 10:55 AM
Freedom, it's .311, been loading for it since I got it. :) Light and accurate little carbine.
I can get 2300 FPS, a max load of AA# 1680 gets 2400 FPS according to data - no Chrony to double check with.
goste, the Enfield went away to New Jersey over a year ago. Buyer still owes me $5.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 29, 2011, 08:28 PM
Well, with that in mind armored, I'd take that puppy if it were me. Them FAL's are just too heavy to hump around in the woods after Bear. Load up some 125-130 grain Sierra's and go Bear hunting with one of them 7.62x39's! Personally, I would leave that FAL for some over bait hunting for Hogs. Nice fast followups and, with the right bullets loaded up, may get you some 2 for 1's! I just got me an ASI made AR10 in 7mm.08 just for that very reason! It's a beast to carry at 12.5 pounds without scope or ammo so I doubt very much that I will be humping it around too very far. By the time I get her wearing a scope and loaded up it will be right at 15 pounds.

armoredman
December 30, 2011, 12:29 AM
Yikes, and the CZ 527M is 6 pounds soaking wet with rocks in her pockets. :) Yeah, I'll stick with what I know. ;) Thanks.

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