Ive been looking at buying a AR-15 for a while now and once my tax return comes in im gonna by one.
Now im a AR-15 noob (have never owned one but shot a few) but i have narrowed it down to DPMS or Stag.
Specifically Dpms Sportical or Stag 3.
I really would like the Dpms 3G1 or the Stag 3g but the wife will castrate me if i spend $1400+ on a single gun.
So which would you buy?
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December 29, 2011, 12:35 AM
Of the two listed, I would buy the Stag. If I were making the decision, however, I'd build the lower myself, and put a Spikes or Bravo Co upper on it.
December 29, 2011, 12:56 AM
Another vote for the Stag...if choosing between the two you listed.
December 29, 2011, 01:02 AM
I like DPMS
December 29, 2011, 01:03 AM
Spikes Tactical or Palmetto state armory
Look at the reviews on Spikes and Palmetto state Armory. Also if you check their specs you will see they rate pretty highly. For around $700 PSA has Midlength with a Cold hammer forged barrel made by FN.
December 29, 2011, 01:05 AM
Of those two, the Stag would be my choice.
December 29, 2011, 01:20 AM
If you are open to suggestions I would highly recommend a Sikes Tactical, I just built one for 679 total. They are top level quality! You should go to their sight and look up their specs. Its very impressive. James Dunst is the VP and can sell you an M4 profile upper cheap like 479 (with CH, BCG, and a Sikes T2 Heavy Buffer). PM me if you want more info.
But if you are sentimental about those two brands Stag is better.
December 29, 2011, 02:02 AM
I'd say DPMS. Never had a single problem with mine
December 29, 2011, 02:25 AM
Whatever the respective prices are from where you are getting them, just make sure you can get more for less $$$. Lots of competition out there, some less controversial than others.
I personally own a Spike's. It's not the cheapest, but inside the $800-$900 range of ARs, it's arguably the best of that crop.
December 29, 2011, 02:38 AM
Dpms makes a quality gun, but with the things they took out of the sportical to drop the price, ( forward assist, dust cover, no rear sight, and no brass deflector) makes it a little less appealing. Besides, almost all the ar companies out there have an ar in the "sportical" price range with way more options. Of the two listed, i would choose stag. And, i would continue to shop around. Look also at smith and wesson. They have a sport modle for 650.00$. it has a 1/8 twist and comes with 1 or 2 pmags and comes with a rear magpul back up iron sight to boot! Shop around and really do your homework. It will really pay of in the end. Hope this helps, brian. Happy new year!
December 29, 2011, 05:49 AM
Since your wife is going to castrate you go with Smith and Wesson, first choice would be bravo company.
December 29, 2011, 08:55 AM
Another vote for doing more research and getting more bang for your buck with another company than the two you've narrowed it down to.
December 29, 2011, 09:01 AM
Ive been using DPMS for years.
December 29, 2011, 04:42 PM
Buy the upper and then piece it together, it'll come out cheaper. I just got my Stag 3G upper in last week and it'll soon be dropped onto a PSA lower. The 3G upper is a sweet little pkg. I'm really looking forward to breaking it in some time near the end of January if all goes well. Just have to pull together all of the rest of the goodies I want on the gun.
December 29, 2011, 05:42 PM
Of those two, get the Stag. A better option is to get a BCM, S&W, Spikes, or LMT - all higher-quality guns that should come in around $1k if you look for them.
December 29, 2011, 06:10 PM
Of the two, Stag. Look at Rainier Arms, they are local for me but compete with Bravo Company. They take pride in not selling junk and Stag is, I think, their cheapest.
LMT is better though if you can swing it. I got an M4 upper, 14.5", and it is better than the Colt I was issued in the army. A lot better, but it looks pretty much the same. LMT will let cosmetic flaws through QC so if that bothers you you should inspect the actual weapon you intend to buy. I was told LMT did this to keep costs down. Noveske will scrap or sell as factory seconds parts with light roll marks, etc., but that obviously increases costs. Noveske does make fine stuff though. Try to get 1/7 twist whatever you get unless you plan on using it for varmint hunting a lot. Bushmaster likes 1/9 and 1/8, which is useless on a fighting rifle, and 1/8 is real common. But the 1/7 does better with the 62gr. and up bullets, and stabilizes 55gr. just fine. Your barrel first and trigger second, that is how you select an AR. Everything else can be junk or near junk and it will still be a good rifle if you get a good trigger and barrel. Trust me here, I built my Grendel using fairly cheap parts, not junk but not great, however, I got my hands on a Satern barrel and that made all the difference in the world, and a tuned RRA two stage topped it off. Sub-MOA and just wicked to the core.
What I'd do is get the LMT M4 upper (or whatever floats your boat) and the lower of your choice with the trigger of your choice. I had Rainier blind pin an AAC Brakeout, they did a great job --the guy that does the work is a Boeing welder and he does great work. If you go through Rainier, they'll even assemble it for you if you like or don't have the assembly gear. This is really nice for someone that wants to build their own rifle but doesn't want to invest the money in all that gear. Anyway, you'd come out for a little bit more than $800, but not much. The upper is $400something and the lower is too (assembled, ready to go LMT lower with stock and 2 stage trigger).
I went with a Noveske lower on my last build and will likely use them from now on. I used to think that lowers were lowers, but after getting a cheaper but decent Aero Precision and a Noveske side by side, I can say the Noveske has much closer tolerances. The fit has no equal. If you build the rifle, the extra $50 for the Noveske lower is definitely worth it in my opinion.
Lots of good options today, this is the era of the AR. It truly has become the All American rifle, like it or not, and we have a plethora of parts to choose from. Just keep away from the junk and you'll be okay.
As far as DPMS, they are okay. Not great, not bad, just okay. I had a LRR in .308, one of the first ones, and it wasn't anything to write about. I sold it. But others swear by them, and I have used their parts --my favorite rifle, the 6.5G, it uses a DPMS upper and lower small parts kit. But now I use JP Ent., they make the BEST lower parts kit and they come without the hammer and trigger (and the absolute best bolt carrier on the market, bar none, their "Tactical" bolt carrier, I'll never use another one but).
I can say for a fact to stay away from Olympic Arms. They are just right down the street from me and I don't ever go there. They make junk, they know it, and they don't care. I couldn't even get them to make some small changes on parts for an entire infantry brigade to upgrade our M4's and make SDM rifles (they were close, so why not, and they did get the contract to test the SOPMOD gear, although I'll never know how). Their barrels were junk, their gas blocks blew off after 2000 rounds, and their FF rails system just can't stand any real abuse. These rifles are popular with newbies and Oly even has its own forum and the most popular thread is "why do people hate Oly so much?" and "how do I get my rifle to function reliably?". Enough said about them.
Colt ain't bad and I hear a lot of good stuff about Palmetto. If you want 3gun, go look at JP Ent. They cater to the 3g crowd. Now they will be out of your price range, but you can build similar rifles for less.
I have a LOT of AR building experience and I was one of the original SDM instructors in the army and we used M4's to 600m. I learned a lot about working on 'em, tweaking them, etc. Kind of became my thing. If you have specific questions, PM me. But go check out Rainier Arms, they have a good selection at good prices. Just make sure to check their prices against others, they aren't always the cheapest.
December 29, 2011, 08:49 PM
Personally I would take a hard look at http://www.superiorarms.com/
December 29, 2011, 09:58 PM
buy the one with the best deal, we have 4 DPMS AR's in the family and they all work just great.... nothing wrong with Stag but DPMS is in the neighborhood for me ....
December 29, 2011, 11:14 PM
I have a couple of AR15s. One is built up to be a varmint rifle with a DPMS stainless fluted tight-chambered free-floated barrel on a double star lower. It is scary accurate but very picky about what it will chamber. The other is a SHTF rifle. PSA upper, 20" A3 sights, Bushmaster lower, *always* goes bang (at least so far ;)) and will chamber anything.
The first is fun to blast ground squirrels, the second is for serious social interaction should it ever become necessary.
I have had 2 DPMS rifles since before there were all the choices on the market today. Both have been great rifles. In light of the choices out there today I might not own these today...be sure to shop.
The DPMS or Stag will both work but I'd probably purchase a BCM, DD, Colt, Spikes, Etc etc if I was buying today.
December 30, 2011, 05:36 AM
I would choose anything other than Olympic Arms over DPMS.
Do yourself a favor and do some more research. You will find that neither of those brands are the most cost-effective options. You will be much happier in the long-run buying something higher quality now. Otherwise, you'll just end up buying another one of higher quality later on, thereby spending more.
Others have mentioned Palmetto State Armory already. They sell a complete rifle for just over $600. It has all the "right" specs; HPT/MPI bolt (DPMS doesn't), properly staked gas key (this is critical, and DPMS doesn't), and others.
December 30, 2011, 10:09 AM
I have a Stag 2011 model 3,only change was add a Geissele ssa-e trigger it gives me less then 1.0 groups at 100 yards,no problems, staking all good, they have a new 3g gun for competition comes with geissele trigger.
I would not hesitate in buying another Stag.
The AR is IMO one of the most difficult firearms to research when buying as you have your mall ninjas,Zombie hunters and many getting ready for battle and yet most AR's will never see battle other then in the minds of there owners. Buy what you can afford plus a good warranty and your good to go for thousands of rounds of "fun".
December 30, 2011, 10:14 AM
This is a no brainer stag all the way.....
December 30, 2011, 10:17 AM
Since cerberus holdings got its hands on bushmaster, dpms, and marlin there quality has gone down......thanks remington
December 30, 2011, 11:34 AM
I'm a big fan of DPMS - Bang for your Buck (IMO) they're one of the best.
The DPMS Oracle is only about $30 more than the Sportical and it has the dust cover, forward assist and shell deflector. It's a great gun to get you started and shouldn't cost you any more than $650.
December 30, 2011, 05:44 PM
If you haven't all ready, do some reading on AR15.com or M4Carbine.net about both brands/models you're thinking of.
Better yet, do some reading about the other brands that are being suggested in this thread, too.
IMHO at your price point (the "well below $1400" point!), there are better brands that are more respected than the two that you are looking at. IMHO $600-$800 is a sweet spot for a high-quality economical "consumer grade" AR from one of the reputable vendors.
December 30, 2011, 06:54 PM
I'll echo others and say that between the two I'd get a stag. However, I would not buy either. If I were trying to keep the price down I would get a Palmetto State Armory or a BCM upper on a lower I'd assembled. In fact this is what I am going to do for an SBR build I am waiting on a tax stamp for.
December 30, 2011, 07:04 PM
I have a DPMS Oracle. I paid $575 OTD for it brand new. I am getting close to the 1,000 round mark with no issues. About all my rifle has seen is Federal bulk pack and Tula/Wolf steel case.
I know I could have gotten a better rifle for a little more money but at the time that was the money I had available and I felt comfortable with the purchase. I had never shot an AR before buying mine so I wasn't even sure this was a platform I would enjoy.
Now that I know I really enjoy shooting AR's I am looking at getting a new/ better rifle but I will hang on to my DPMS b/c it has been a dependable gun.
December 30, 2011, 08:18 PM
Let me add again that there isn't anything wrong with the DPMS rifles I have owned two for 8 years now. No they aren't Mil Spec but my parts are well built and the rifles run great. The lowers and uppers have been reliable and very accurate - I have some mileage on them. Only wear items that I've needed to changed have been the gas rings in both and one weak extractor spring.
Despite the favorable review of the DPMS rifles I own if I were spending my money today on a complete AR-15 it would be something like the BCM Mid 16 Mod 2
December 30, 2011, 11:16 PM
I own DPMS among two AR's and would not buy again if I had researched carefully like I should have. Check out this updated comparison chart of all the major AR manufacturers. I believe DPMS is one of two that chose not to submit their specifications.
So is Bushmaster a bad rifle too? I have DPMS LR-308 and it is an amazing rifle.
December 31, 2011, 12:19 AM
I don't think any of the rifles mentioned are "bad." Some are better than others, and certainly better rifles can be had for the same price as those of lesser quality. Why not shop for the best gun for the money? See, nobody's feelings got hurt. :-)
January 18, 2012, 04:19 PM
Looks like I'm a couple of weeks late to the party, but I'm chiming in because for my latest completed project AR, I decided to go with a complete Stag Model 1H upper assembly, rather than build from scratch. Both of my buddies used DPMS uppers to complete theirs during the same month, and they are both jealous of the value and quality the Stag offered. Since I have to deal with NJ AWB restrictions, the compensator Stag uses on their post-ban unit is top-notch.
If I decide to employ a completed upper assy on an up-coming project, I am considering the Stag 3G, with the Dueck sights.
January 18, 2012, 04:35 PM
I'd go for the Stag if that was all i could choose but i think for the cost of those you can do better. You didn't say exactly what price you can pay and still retain the fellas but you can get a colt 6920 for under a grand and this is the best AR value on the market.
January 18, 2012, 04:59 PM
I'm going to give another vote for building the lower and buying the upper. You can build your first lower while watching a re-run of Law & Order. Get a stripped lower, a parts kit, and maybe do a little homework to see if there are a few parts you would like to switch out. (Like the trigger. Order the free AR parts catalog from Brownell's for ideas.) Then I would look ar Palmetto State Armory, BCM, Noveske, etc. to buy an upper. Building an upper isn't too difficult either, but honestly it isn't as cost effective these days. You could build a rifle EXACTLY like you want it, and it wouldn't cost too much.
Having said all that, I think you could buy a DPMS or a Stag, shoot the heck out of it, and it will be fine.
January 18, 2012, 06:37 PM
I have a DPMS Lo Pro Classic in 223. It is an accurate and reliable firearm. This was purchased prior to the acquisition and merger with the company that acquired Remington, Marlin and Bushmaster. At this point, my confidence level in DPMS has diminished based upon current purchasers of this product. I would vote for the Stag.
January 18, 2012, 08:06 PM
I say the Stag has nicer fit and finish, but in defense of the DPMS. I put and Oracle flattop on a plumcrazy plastic lower and we have shot the crap out of it. Well over 2000 rounds now and it hasn't burped. I say get the best you can afford but get one for sure.
January 19, 2012, 11:27 AM
I just Traded a universal M1 carbine w/ammo for a bushmaster XM15 E2S A3 flattop with a fixed stock, 5.56 1:9 twist H Bar Chromed lined, 1 10rd & 2 20rd mags, Mako mag grip, CQB combat sling, Carry handle and A.R.M.S Rear BUIS.
The guy said he put less than 200 through it. When i pulled it apart the lower was spotless! The upper needed to be wiped down, there is no noticeable wear on it.
I think i got the better end of the deal... the M1 was kinda beat up and i couldn't get it to group well. My best supported group was 10rds in coffee can lid at 50yards (about 4.5inches)!
When i get my tax return back i'm going to build a mid length.
January 19, 2012, 02:12 PM
Between those two, Stag.
January 19, 2012, 08:05 PM
I own a DPMS Oracle. Good dependable and accurate rifle. My best friend has a Stag and it is a really nice rifle as well. Really not a bad choice either way you go.
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