What causes muzzle flip/rise


PDA






Skribs
December 29, 2011, 09:03 PM
I was just wondering what causes muzzle rise in a firearm.

If you enjoyed reading about "What causes muzzle flip/rise" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
matrem
December 29, 2011, 09:06 PM
The point of contact with the shooter being below bore center.

M-Cameron
December 29, 2011, 09:07 PM
"every action has an equal and opposite reaction...."


so essentially.....there is a force being put on the bullet by the gun.....and there is also a force put on the gun by the bullet in the opposite direction....

since the location of that force is above your hand( which acts as a fulcrum)...the barrel rises.

PRD1
December 29, 2011, 09:10 PM
geometry. The recoil of typical firearms in which the center of the bore is located above the support (grip or buttstock) causes the arm to rotate about the lower point - the muzzle rises above the original line of fire.
PRD1 - mhb - Mike

rcmodel
December 29, 2011, 09:11 PM
Recoil, and to some extent, muzzle gas acting like a tiny rocket motor..

Recoil is centered on the bore line.

Your hand grip on a handgun, or stock against your shoulder on a long gun is below the bore line, so the recoil force pushing back forces the muzzle up.

Pretend you are pushing a child's swing.

It rotates around the axle at the center line of the support. (where the chains are attached at the top)
But you push it at the bottom away from the centerline of the support, (recoil) and it rotates away and up.

rc

matrem
December 29, 2011, 09:18 PM
If you turn your gun upside down,yet hold it correctly, you'll get "muzzle drop'.

J-Bar
December 29, 2011, 11:17 PM
I don't think it has anything to do with the gun being held.

It has everything to do with the line of the bore not passing through the gun's center of mass. The tangential recoil force will cause the gun to torque around its center of mass. A gun is essentially a pinwheel.

Picture a gun free floating in space...fire it remotely. It will still rotate even though it is not held. In fact, holding a gun keeps it from rotating as much as it wants to during recoil.

Skribs
December 29, 2011, 11:29 PM
I read the wikipedia page about 2 seconds after I posted this, but thanks for the answers.

It has everything to do with the line of the bore not passing through the gun's center of mass. The tangential recoil force will cause the gun to torque around its center of mass. A gun is essentially a pinwheel.

I think it's more based on the contact points, because the gun isn't pivoting around itself, it's pivoting around where you hold it.

The main reason I asked is because for some reason I thought it had to do with the hot gasses trying to escape up, and I wondered how that would apply to a gauss rifle or rail gun. Apparently it has nothing to do with that, though.

NavyLCDR
December 29, 2011, 11:54 PM
Here's the cure for muzzle rise:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/7six2/homeboy_night_sights.jpg

J-Bar
December 29, 2011, 11:57 PM
I read the wikipedia page about 2 seconds after I posted this, but thanks for the answers.



I think it's more based on the contact points, because the gun isn't pivoting around itself, it's pivoting around where you hold it.

The main reason I asked is because for some reason I thought it had to do with the hot gasses trying to escape up, and I wondered how that would apply to a gauss rifle or rail gun. Apparently it has nothing to do with that, though.
Interesting hypothesis...NASA must be wrong then in having tangential jets for rotating space capsules!

Any force not directed through the center of mass will cause torque and rotation. Basic physics.

Did you ever put english on a billiard ball? Off center hits with the cue stick make the ball rotate, right? But no one is holding the ball.

HDCamel
December 30, 2011, 12:39 AM
A gun fired in mid-air without any contact will rotate around it's center of mass unless said CoM is in line with the bore which would result in it going straight back.

However, adding a human arm (or two) into the equation completely changes the system. Contact points add fulcra to the system, each one acting as a pivot point in one direction or another.

So it's both.

Iramo94
December 30, 2011, 02:03 AM
Here's the cure for muzzle rise:
Would it then be called muzzle left? :rolleyes:

Metal Tiger
December 30, 2011, 03:10 AM
Interesting points JBAR and Camel. Glocks grip higher and closer to the barrel bore than most other autos. Another big plus for the Glock. Just a thought from a Sig Sour owner.

MistWolf
December 30, 2011, 03:16 AM
Part of it is from the bore being above the the butt. Part of it is from how the body reacts to the recoil. Part of it is from the reciprocating mass of certain self loading rifles being above the bore. Some of it is from the reciprocating mass being forward in the rifle.

The AR is one of the best designs for reducing muzzle rise and helping the shooter control the recoil. It's bore and reciprocating mass is inline with the bore which is just below the comb of the stock. It's reciprocating mass is also located to the rear of the rifle between the shooter's hand and shoulder.

The stance of the shooter can be adjusted to help control muzzle rise and get back on target for a follow-up shot faster

Sav .250
December 30, 2011, 06:58 AM
For every action.........there`s a re-action.

Tigersteel
December 30, 2011, 03:06 PM
What would the reaction be shooting a Rhino revolver.

youngda9
December 30, 2011, 03:58 PM
less muzzle rise.

gamestalker
December 30, 2011, 05:18 PM
I have magnum wheel guns that obviously produce a good bit of flip/rise. But I also have some that are compensated, and those don't jump up nearly as much. So in this respect, the gases are helping to reduce this reaction. The same is achieved with high powered rifles, such as those with compensated barrels in which recoil is reduced significantly. Another recoil reduction system that works well is mercury tubes being installed in the stock, or another spot that is latteral to the barrel.

Cokeman
December 30, 2011, 05:35 PM
Serious?

Owen Sparks
December 30, 2011, 05:38 PM
I saw a demo once where a man put on a welding glove and shot a long barreled .44 Magnum while holding it by the barrel. It went straight back with no rise at all.

JohnKSa
December 30, 2011, 05:45 PM
Recoil, and to some extent, muzzle gas acting like a tiny rocket motor...Recoil and recoil. ;)

Rocket motors work on the principle of recoil (conservation of momentum). It's just that recoil in a rocket motor is from the movement of gases. Mass is mass when it comes to conservation of momentum. Makes no difference what state of matter it's in at the time.

Millwright
December 30, 2011, 06:20 PM
Physics and geometry, Sir ! >MW

BobOfTheFuture
December 30, 2011, 07:54 PM
If you look at more modern guns: The AR type rifle or the KRISS V for example, you can see the bore becoming lower and lower to be more in line with your sholder/hands. On these weapons the only muzzle rise is basically from your body being pushed back (recoil) and being pivoted on the fulcrum of your feet on the ground, or you bending at your waist. Pretty interesting stuff.

VT Deer Hunter
December 30, 2011, 07:57 PM
Yep, and to put it simple the gases coming from the barrel under pressure push on you and your hand unless on top of the gun like a folcrum push it up. I put 4 fingers on the scope to prevent this and it works wonders.

If you enjoyed reading about "What causes muzzle flip/rise" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!