Parents - do your kids own guns?


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12gaugeTim
December 30, 2011, 11:52 PM
If so, what type of firearm is it and how old is the child/teenager (under 18 or experiences regarding an individual that at the time was under 18)? I'm 16, I hunt, and I have the tools for the job. They aren't my dad's; I will own them when I turn 18. I shoot on a regular basis and am responsible in my handling. But what I want to know is, do you let your children own firearms? Shoot while not under supervision? Request or fund new purchases?

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Deltaboy
December 30, 2011, 11:55 PM
I was given a single shot 410 at 7 and I got a 12 gauge for my 16th. I bought my first Marlin 60 at age 18.

Adamsstreet
December 30, 2011, 11:57 PM
I bought my son a Ruger Charger for his 8th birthday. He had already mastered the BB gun from last year.

12gaugeTim
December 30, 2011, 11:59 PM
Almost matches my story to a T except I think I got my .410 at 8. It was my first. Maybe I'll buy a Marlin at 18 too, ha

Josh45
December 31, 2011, 12:02 AM
While Im not a parent myself,

I did get my brother who is 13, A .22 LR rifle.
My other brother wanted a BB Rifle so he got that.

They both only shoot while supervised by me, other brother who is 20 or by father. Yes, We let them USE them while at the range and such but not actually OWN it until they are of age. Even if the gun was bought for them.

Yes, They request new purchases sometimes and we will do it if the funds allow at the time.

12gaugeTim
December 31, 2011, 12:17 AM
What if the minor in question provided half or even all of the money needed to make a new purchase?

Bovice
December 31, 2011, 12:19 AM
What if the minor in question provided half or even all of the money needed to make a new purchase?

You are walking a very thin line. That's a straw purchase, which is highly illegal.

The only legal way to do it is to buy it for them as a gift, and allow SUPERVISED use until they are 18.

Bobson
December 31, 2011, 12:21 AM
Until age 18 is reached, none of children will ever "own" anything - firearms or otherwise.

There will be specific firearms bought specifically for my kids' use; and there absolutely will be firearms gifted at age 18; but I'll make it very clear to my kids that they own nothing - including the clothes on their backs - whether they buy it with their own earned money, or I buy it for them.

My parents (who were far more lenient than most other parents I knew growing up) did this with me and my siblings, and I think it worked very well. It helps a developing child/teen understand his role in the household, and the level of respect he needs to display flows naturally (when combined with other parenting applications, of course).

Bovice
December 31, 2011, 12:27 AM
Yikes. That's harsh. I was taught as a kid that if I worked for and earned something, it was mine. I was given things too, but even those given things were mine. I was taught that I should take care of the things that are mine, because it's good to have nice things and I should keep them that way.

12gaugeTim
December 31, 2011, 12:30 AM
Under my state law even purchases that I make with my own money are not in my possession and can be confiscated at any time by my parents, who will forever legally own literally everything I see as in my possession currently. However my parents are not the kind to suddenly yank thousands of dollars worth of firearms and the like out from under my feet just because they legally can. When I say it's mine I mean I clean it, I shoot it, and I grant permission for others to shoot it in rare circumstances. Does that make it mine? Legally, still no.

Bovice
December 31, 2011, 12:33 AM
Under my state law even purchases that I make with my own money are not in my possession and can be confiscated at any time by my parents, who will forever legally own literally everything I see as in my possession currently.

The law says a lot of things, that doesn't mean it's always the right thing to do. I should hope that there aren't parents out there who are power-tripping on their kids, citing law, and taking away their stuff for fun. What kind of message does that send?

Bobson
December 31, 2011, 12:34 AM
Under my state law even purchases that I make with my own money are not in my possession and can be confiscated at any time by my parents, who will forever legally own literally everything I see as in my possession currently. However my parents are not the kind to suddenly yank thousands of dollars worth of firearms and the like out from under my feet just because they legally can.IMO, that's something every minor should fully understand. I'm not saying I think it's okay for a parent to unjustly punish his kids by denying the use of certain items at will. But when punishments are necessary, denial of certain privileges the child has come to enjoy can be effective (though may not always be) - and it's very hard to do so if the child believes he owns certain things.

303tom
December 31, 2011, 12:44 AM
Only one of my four boys is interested in hunting/shooting & yes he owns several firearms. The other three don`t care one way or the other, I don`t think they are related to me. LOL

Bovice
December 31, 2011, 12:44 AM
But when punishments are necessary, denial of certain privileges the child has come to enjoy can be effective (though may not always be) - and it's very hard to do so if the child believes he owns certain things.

Punishment is one thing, but holding it over their head constantly is not a good idea. Remember who will most likely be handling your end-of-life care! It's your kids. Torment them and they'll remember it forever.

back on topic.

No, you can not legally take money from a minor to buy a gun for that minor. As far as "giving" them guns as a gift to teach them how to use and maintain a gun, I think that is a great idea. They'll have to be supervised, but it's a good way to teach them to be responsible and take care of their things. By making them believe that they have NOTHING and it isn't theirs by any stretch of the imagination, why should they care? You can threaten them with disciplinary action (whatever that may be), but giving them a sense of ownership gives a sense of pride, and they'll learn to be responsible and take care of stuff. Same thing with cars.

I would only be inclined to invoke the "you own nothing" mantra if after trying to instill a sense of ownership, they were not taking direction and doing as they should.

12gaugeTim
December 31, 2011, 12:45 AM
Not just denying the use of - completely confiscating even after the individual in question is over 18 years of age. There was a big lawsuit about it in my state, the mom won. But back on topic, should responsible minors be allowed to "own" a gun?
Edit: Bovice's most recent post hit the nail on the head as far as ownership goes.

Serenity
December 31, 2011, 01:18 AM
Our 38 special is my son's gun. He saw it and fell in love with it at the gun store and it was our first gun purchase. I own it legally, of course, but I have my OWN gun when we go to the range. We cross train but when we get home we clean our own guns. It is understood that possession will turn over to him at some point but I doubt it will be at 18; it just depends on if he's ready or not, and what his living circumstances are (living in dorm, with irresponsible roommates, whatever). And yep, I decide when he's ready.

Shooting isn't something that is with held as punishment at our house; it's exempt, like visiting Grandma.

snakeman
December 31, 2011, 01:20 AM
well mine's 3 so it'll have to wait till next year:neener:

seelawyer
December 31, 2011, 01:31 AM
Not withstanding the debate of a minor's "legal ownership," my oldest son "owns" a Glock 45 (not a fan of the plastic and couldn't tell you more, though I am coming around) and an AR-15. My middle son "owns" a 20 gauge and a 30-30, and wants a first generation SIG P220. My youngest son is 2 and "owns" a couple of orange plastic relvolvers and is required to treat them as functional firearms based upon his comprehension at his age.

My sons "own" their weapons though most were acquired by the auspices of my good fortune and desire for their happiness. And are theirs PROVIDED they abide the rules of safety which is the singular requirement of ownership in my household. I have never had reason to ever revoke, or even threaten to revoke, a weapon, as they each must show mastery of all safety rules before my charity sees fit to bestow upon them a weapon.

Other disciplinary issues are handled within the scope of the rule broken. Punishments, such as "grounding," deprive them of time to use the weapons, but "ownership" of the weapon never comes into issue. Breaches of firearm safety, however, are simply not tolerated and should one occur, swift and immediate revocation is the applicable punishment. Since they believe me to be a man of my word with respect to safety, I have, as yet, to invoke the penalty.

I support responsible "ownership" of firearms for my children without regard to the legal age of "majority," for many of the reasons stated by Bovice.

shiftyer1
December 31, 2011, 01:45 AM
My son is 15, he'll be 16 on jan 10th. He's had a .22 rifle since age 12, it is the one my dad bought me, also a .410 the same year and at 13 he got a 22 revolver. If he saved up enough $$$ and I thought it was a good idea I would buy him whatever gun he wanted. I don't care what the law says. Keep in mind behavior and responsibility has alot to do with this.

I also reserve the right to take away any item or priviledge I see fit to accomplish my goal which is to raise a responsible, trustworthy, and respectable young man.

The_Next_Generation
December 31, 2011, 02:02 AM
My parents allow me to possess a Rem. 740 in 30-06, and a CZ452 in .22lr. I would like to make another purchase, but I am unsure how that would go over :rolleyes:

And yes, it is understood that both rifles will leave with me.

hermannr
December 31, 2011, 03:35 AM
When I was 12 my dad bought me a Marlin SS 22, then when I showed responsibility with the ss (and physically grew a bit) I got a Marlin 80 which I still have now well over 50 years later.

I took my own money and purchased a Reminton 700 (no dad was not with me) at age 16..(this was all well before the GCA68). I purchased a Ruger Bearcat a couple years later, then in 1967 my FIL gave me a Colt 38. (still have)

Life was different then...

gamestalker
December 31, 2011, 04:48 AM
I started hunting with a pellet gun when I was 7 or 8 yrs. old and began hunting with a 22 when I was around 10 or 11 yrs. old. My parents weren't gun owners, or had ever even shot a gun. My Dad was more or less an anti and associated guns with violence, so he knew nothing of my huntng. My Mom knew and allowed me to sneek out early mornings and managed to keep it secret from Dad. As it turned out, my Sister was the only other one in my family to own and in fact carry, which is a story for another time.

My children were raised with guns. I had them pulling the trigger as young as 2 yrs. old and bought my children (5 boys,1 girl) their first gun at around age 6.

jonn5335
December 31, 2011, 04:57 AM
I was bought a 30/30 and 22lr by my father who was not a hunter/shooter when I was 13 I still own them and would never sell them and purchased several other firearms before I turned 18

garyr
December 31, 2011, 07:06 AM
My children have their own firearms. They stay in my safe under lock and key until we go to the range or go hunting.

12 yo: Sears and Robuck Model 41

9 yo: Rossi Interarms Model 62 SAC and CVA Scout in .243 (hunting)

USAF_Vet
December 31, 2011, 10:44 AM
I've gotten each of my step kids a bb gun.

My step son has taken to shooting more, so he has his own .410 single shot. I'm looking to get him either inserts to fire .22s or an actual .22 rifle next year.

The guns are all locked up, only handed out under supervision. They can request all they want, but at ages 8 and 10, their priorities aren't leaning toward guns as much as mine. They can fund their own purchases as long as the purchases are approved by their mother and me.

rbernie
December 31, 2011, 10:49 AM
My 16yo has a Ruger 10/22, a Ruger 22/45, and a Remington 870 20ga. He does not ever use them outside of the presence of an adult, since we have to be there to drive him to a range. :)

My 8yo and 10yo do not yet own any firearms of their own, although that's fixing to change for the 10yo.

Naterater
December 31, 2011, 11:00 AM
I am one of these children with an extended privilege.

I owned the following guns:
Massberg 500 @ age 12
Ruger 10/22 @ age 13
Remington 700 .308 @ age 15
Reloading equipment for shotguns and rifles @ age 15

I do not need supervision from my parents, as they are now less experienced than me with firearms. My father was never a big shooter.

Most guns are partially paid for by my parents at Christmas time or my Birthday. I have invested in reloading early, so I hope to (not save), but shoot more for the same amount of money!

3KillerBs
December 31, 2011, 11:31 AM
We purchased a 12 gauge for our oldest son when he was 16 or 17.

We purchased a Hi-Standard revolver for our daughter when she was about 14 (the same year).

And at the same time we purchased a Crickett rifle for the then 7yo.

While I have no clue about the legal status of these guns, we have always considered the first two as definitely owned by the then children, now adults of 18 and 20. The Crickett, however has, like the bike of the same era and other outgrown items, been passed on to the youngest child, now 5. So when finances permit we will buy the now-11yo a new gun which, depending on when this occurs and whether or not its something he will physically outgrow, may or may not be his in the sense that the then teens owned their respective firearms.

AK103K
December 31, 2011, 11:33 AM
Each of our boys got a Chipmunk .22 when they were born, a Spanish FR8 and a Winchester 1200 when they were around 10, and a High power when they were 12. They were "their" guns.

Once they had "jobs", Id buy what ever they wanted, and did buy a couple of things for them.

As much as many seem to like to throw it out there, the straw purchase thing doesnt apply to parents and "gifts".

While we mostly always shot together, I didnt have a problem with our kids being around the house with their guns on their own when in their early teens. By then, they had more experience then many, if not most adults, and were mature enough to handle it.

HankB
December 31, 2011, 12:13 PM
No, you can not legally take money from a minor to buy a gun for that minor. I strongly suspect this is the most common form of "straw purchase" there is. (Junior is a good kid. Junior earns money - paper route, bagging groceries, whatever. Dad takes Junior to the gun shop and fills out the paperwork for Junior's new gun; maybe Junior even forks over the $. So long as Junior doesn't do anything nefarious, this is a family transaction which will never come to the attention of any law enforcement agency.)

Is there any statute of limitations on this type of "straw sale?"

AK103K
December 31, 2011, 12:26 PM
This is from the ATF's website.....

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#gca-unlicensed-transfer

"Q: May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)?
Yes. However, possession of handguns by juveniles (less than 18 years of age) is generally unlawful. Juveniles generally may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e.g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting.

[18 U.S.C. 922(x)]"

FIVETWOSEVEN
December 31, 2011, 12:31 PM
You are walking a very thin line. That's a straw purchase, which is highly illegal.

The only legal way to do it is to buy it for them as a gift, and allow SUPERVISED use until they are 18.

AK103K posted part of it but as I recall, it's not a straw purchase if it was bought for your child.

sting75ray
December 31, 2011, 02:48 PM
I have twin daughters that will be 15 next month. They have both had Ruger 10/22s since they were about 7 years old. At 12 I bought each of them a TC Encore for deer hunting. They both now have about 10 guns each. For Christmas this year I gave them both a Ruger BH 357. All of their guns stay locked up in my safe until we go to the range out back or on a hunting trip. All of my guns are in a photo album with the girls names on the ones they now have and which ones they are to get when I am gone. Each year for their birthday and Christmas I give each one of them another gun out of my collection. I do not shoot them as much as I used to so there is no reason waiting until I am gone before they get to enjoy most of them.

Gunnerboy
December 31, 2011, 02:54 PM
I was one of them children with a arsenal, in my 17th year alone i bought 1 handgun, 2 shotguns, and 9 rifles mainly old mil-surps.

Steve CT
December 31, 2011, 03:00 PM
My son took his NRA class at age 16 (paid for the class himself, asked me to drop him off in the morning and pick him up that evening). His first gun was a Ruger MK II, he is a very accomplished shooter with handgun, shotgun, and rifle.

He is currently a Gunner's Mate in the USCG, and came home from a year in the Persian Gulf and Iraq a year ago.

Sam1911
December 31, 2011, 03:33 PM
AK103K posted part of it but as I recall, it's not a straw purchase if it was bought for your child.
It isn't a straw purchase if it is bought as a GIFT.

It IS a straw purchase if you're taking someone else's money and buying a firearm on behalf of them. Even if it's your child. Son who is 16 works a part time job and saves up for a rifle. Gives money to Dad. Dad goes to store and buys the rifle and gives it to son.

Dad is committing a federal felony as this is unquestionably a straw purchase.

If you change the terms a little and Dad goes to the store and buys a HANDGUN and gives it to the son, then Dad is committing another federal felony in providing a handgun to someone under 18 years of age outside of very specific and/or closely supervised circumstances.

Now, Dad knows son has been pining for a new Remlinchester .389 Magnum and goes to the store and buys one as a gift for his son, that's fine. But he still can't do that with a handgun until the son is at least 18.

damford
December 31, 2011, 03:40 PM
all 3 of my boys got there "own" guns for there 12th birthday
all have 22s and been shooting since they were old enough to hold guns

my 19 yr old has a siaga 410,22, 270 and a single 410 from his grand dad
my 16 yr old has a moss 500, 22 and a pump 410 from grandpa
my 12 yr old has a 22, a single 20 and a 38-40 model 94 winchester from grandpa.

ALL guns in my house, even the ones my 19 yr old owns stay in my safe locked up. only my wife and i know the combination.

AK103K
December 31, 2011, 04:15 PM
Dad is committing a federal felony as this is unquestionably a straw purchase.
By the "letter" of the law, your probably right, but good luck proving it in court. At best, its a gray area in reality.

If you change the terms a little and Dad goes to the store and buys a HANDGUN and gives it to the son, then Dad is committing another federal felony in providing a handgun to someone under 18 years of age outside of very specific and/or closely supervised circumstances.
Again, good luck proving anything in court, unless the kid is caught outside running around with it off the property.


Not really related here, but it is in a way. We used to do a lot of hiking/camping on the Appalachian Trail and similar places as our kids were growing up. We all carried handguns, including the kids when they were older. While having a discussion with a friend in law enforcement, and touching on the subject, I asked that if since they were my responsibility until they are 18, why coudnt they carry their handguns "concealed" under my permit. That started a big ball of worms. :)

In the end, I ended up in a long series of run around phone calls and emails to PA's Attorney Generals office trying to get an answer to it, and they never would give me an answer, even unofficially. Seems that was a scary question.

wannabeagunsmith
December 31, 2011, 04:28 PM
I wish my parent would let me....

USAF_Vet
December 31, 2011, 04:28 PM
Buying a gun for a kid with the kids' own money does sound like a straw purchase, but a lot of it depends on where that money originated. My kids get an allowance, which is money their mom and I give them for doing chores. more often than not, it's money they have on credit, and rarely cash in their pocket. If they have earned enough allowance money and want to buy a gun, as long as we approve of them having it, I don't see a problem buying it for them. In which case, the money is technically theirs, since they have earned it, but lacking any sort of physical or electronic banking transfer, the money is technically still mine, too. When the kids get older and get real jobs, I honestly won't feel any different about buying a gun for them with the money they earn. It'll be kept in my house, in my safe, under my care and supervision until they move out on their own. By all intents and purposes, I am the legal owner of the firearm. that's how it is with my step-sons .410. I bought it, legally I own it. The 4473 even says as much. I mean, technically since my wife and i have a joint checking account, if she deposits money in the account for a gun i buy for her, is that a straw purchase? Only the most anal of ATF agents would think so.

j tice
December 31, 2011, 04:30 PM
my 13 y/o has a cricket 22, my 15 y/o has a mossburg semi auto 22 and my 18 y/o has a mossburg 500 12 gauge pump, are they owners of the guns?, yes ! are they in their possesion, no, only when at the range or hunting. my wife dont care for them to have them so we compromised. they stay locked in the gun cabinet we go to use them. i got my first gun when i was 16. did some trading with my uncle and got 2 winchesters. a 67 a 22 single shot bolt action and a single shot 20 gauge.

chiappa1911
December 31, 2011, 04:32 PM
My son is 13 and has 8 guns and has alot of experince from me and his grandpa

Zach S
December 31, 2011, 06:31 PM
Yes, my four year old daughter has a little pink cricket in the safe. I haven't gave it to her yet, but its there for when she's ready.

surplus-addict
December 31, 2011, 06:50 PM
I'm not a parent, but I AM a minor who LEGALLY owns long guns. A minor can legally own a long gun, they just can't BUY them (or ammo). I have manufactured and own an AK-74 receiver (Don't have a parts kit yet to finish it), I own a Winchester model 94, and a Savage model 64 rifle. All the finished rifles were at one time my fathers, and he transferred them to me after he got "bored" with them (who can be bored of a gun?!?!). Mind you, a minor can't own a handgun until they are 18 at the earliest, cause that's when you can do a inter-family handgun transfer (at least here in Cali). So yes, as a minor, I can/do own guns. And so do my sisters.

UpTheIrons
December 31, 2011, 07:11 PM
I had a Mossy 144 LSB by the time I was 12 (for 4-H shooting sports), a Mossy 500 (12 ga) the next year (after I "graduated" from the single-shot .410), and free access to the several other .22s and shotguns in the house. I had been shooting for several years by then.

I started hunting deer around age 13, too, but didn't have my own rifle until a couple of years ago. I "inherited" my dad's Win 94, and also hunted with his .50 CVA muzzle loader.

My son got a Crickett for Christmas when he was 7, and he earned a Browning Buckmark this past May (at age 8).

My daughter got a Savage Cub (with the pink laminated stock, naturally) for her 9th birthday, and this Christmas, at 11, she got a Walther P22.

The only reason she didn't get any guns any earlier is because she wasn't as interested as my son.


Good luck!

viss
December 31, 2011, 09:59 PM
I bought my son a mossberg 500 .410 for his 12th birthday.

At 16 he got a Remington 1100 12 ga.

When he graduated highschool his gift was an 1187. ( his idea, too heavy

for my liking)

When he graduated colledge he recieved a Remington 700 in 223.

When he moved to his own home I gave him a S&W Sigma as a housewarming gift. Now when he wants to go hunting or shooting he still comes and borrows guns from my safe.

FIVETWOSEVEN
January 1, 2012, 01:32 AM
If you change the terms a little and Dad goes to the store and buys a HANDGUN and gives it to the son, then Dad is committing another federal felony in providing a handgun to someone under 18 years of age outside of very specific and/or closely supervised circumstances.

Now, Dad knows son has been pining for a new Remlinchester .389 Magnum and goes to the store and buys one as a gift for his son, that's fine. But he still can't do that with a handgun until the son is at least 18.

You can't own any gun under 18, it's not just handguns.

12gaugeTim
January 1, 2012, 02:35 AM
Happy New Years everyone! OP here, earlier today (or I should say yesterday) my uncle, sister, cousin, and I grabbed a few handguns and went to shoot into the new backstop the uncle pushed up at some pumpkins. Apart from the uncle, we were all fairly young, me being the oldest and the sister and cousin coming in at 13 and 12, respectively. Surprisingly, the sister, with the least amount of experience out of us all, hit a pumpkin dead center on her first and only shot with the 44 mag. Repeated hits afterwards with a MKII. Probably at ~25 yards. A remarkable display of marksmanship from someone with virtually no experience. She displayed the same talents a few weeks earlier with the 357. Again, one shot, dead center.
Have any of your gun toting/owning/possessing children displayed similar natural fortes such as the sister's?

Sam1911
January 1, 2012, 03:33 AM
You can't own any gun under 18, it's not just handguns.
This is not correct.

Minimum age for ownership of rifles and shotguns is regulated by your state laws. You may not buy from a dealer until you are 18, but federal law does not limit you regarding ownership except in the case of handguns.

http://www.nraila.org/issues/factsheets/read.aspx?id=43

...Many of these regulations impose greater restrictions upon persons below certain ages, with age cut-offs ranging from as high as 21 years of age to as young as 12.

cooldude14
January 1, 2012, 04:09 AM
Im 14 and I have 6 guns, but ive had to pay for 4 of them the other too were gifts

Chris-bob
January 1, 2012, 04:28 AM
Well, last summer I bought at a garage sale a Stevens Model 87B by Savage for my recently turned 6 year-old as a present for this fall when he joined Cub Scouts as a Tiger Cub. We are refinishing it together as a father-son project. When he turns 8 he will be getting a .410, at 12 he will get his choice of a deer rifle, and when he gets his Eagle Scout, he will get a pistol.

My daughter that is 4 will go along the same route as she grows up, and so will my 1 year-old son.

If they have the money for an additional firearm, I will be more than happy to purchase it for them.

ChileRelleno
January 1, 2012, 06:16 AM
Last year for Christmas I picked up a Daisy Buck BB gun for my youngest boy of 5yrs, to prove himself on. Prove he could practice the 'Golden Rules' of safe handling/shooting, he did extremely well.
This year for Christmas he received 'His' very own Crickett .22lr rifle, it is his property as far as I'm concerned... He is 6yrs'ol.
His rifle/ammo stays locked up with Mommy & Daddy's firearms and he shoots under direct supervision.
He wants a shotgun, I foresee one for his 7th Birthday.

HankB
January 1, 2012, 11:46 AM
. . . It IS a straw purchase if you're taking someone else's money and buying a firearm on behalf of them. Even if it's your child. . . Absent some other aggravating circumstance (e.g., Junior is already a convicted felon), has anyone ever even HEARD of a straw purchase prosecution for this sort of transaction between a parent and a minor child?

Seriously, unless something is done to deliberately bring the transaction to the attention of law enforcement (for example, a sports writer detailing the action in his column in the local newspaper) how in the world will there be actionable evidence if both parent and child keep their mouths shut?

Sam1911
January 1, 2012, 12:49 PM
Absent some other aggravating circumstance (e.g., Junior is already a convicted felon), has anyone ever even HEARD of a straw purchase prosecution for this sort of transaction between a parent and a minor child?
Like a great many other federal firearms violations (interstate transfers between private parties for example, or 922(r) compliance failures, and so on) enforcement at the moment of transfer or absent any other mis-steps is difficult.

But, if you walk into a gun shop with your son, step up to the counter and say, "We'd like to buy a pistol," and your son points out his choice and hands you a stack of $100 bills for you to pay for it, the dealer absolutely should refuse the sale, immediately, firmly, and permanently. The ATF has been known to set up all kinds of stings, and they WILL yank his license for that kind of violation. If he's got his head on very straight, he'll be aware, and probably at least a little hot, that you just tired to get him to do something that may destroy his livelihood.

Fanky
January 2, 2012, 12:37 AM
I don't have any children yet, at least that I'm aware of.... But my dad got me my first shotgun when I was 12, and my grandpa gifted me about a dozen rifles shortly after that. Growing up, strangely enough, I was always in charge of storage and maintenance of all of our firearms once I showed interest in them. I learned how to clean a rifle at around age 5 after I spent a few days walking through the woods with my dad deer hunting. He taught me at a young age the safe use of firearms and how to appreciate and properly maintain them. I just wish more people from my generation had that same upbringing.

HankB
January 2, 2012, 10:55 AM
But, if you walk into a gun shop with your son, step up to the counter and say, "We'd like to buy a pistol," and your son points out his choice and hands you a stack of $100 bills for you to pay for it, the dealer absolutely should refuse the sale, immediately, firmly, and permanently. So I guess it would REALLY be frowned on if - hypothetically speaking, of course - a much, much younger version of myself had actually counted out the money to the dealer while Dad was filling out the paperwork . . . :eek:

Good to know . . .

Sam1911
January 2, 2012, 11:08 AM
So I guess it would REALLY be frowned on if - hypothetically speaking, of course - a much, much younger version of myself had actually counted out the money to the dealer while Dad was filling out the paperwork
Yes. Of course, these things happen. Especially in places/situations where the dealer knows you/your dad.

They may certainly be willing to commit a felony for you. Heck, if they REALLY know you well, they may invite you to come into the back room to smoke a doobie with them. Might show you how to make your Mini14 run full-auto. Might offer to sell you feathers off that bald eagle they shot.

Who knows what some folks will do for you, if they're willing to break the law.

My point was that most dealers WON'T.

mongo4567
January 2, 2012, 11:08 AM
My son got his crickett .22 rifle at 5 and a Remington 870 youth 20g at 7. He wasn't strong enough to hold the shotgun till he was about 10. He only uses them when I'm present.

He took his first deer at 9. He is 12 now and is comfortable with most any of my deer rifles.

Bovice
January 2, 2012, 11:17 AM
Only the most anal of ATF agents would think so.

It never ceases to amaze me how far the letter of the law is carried if they want to. Don't give them a reason to dig. Spending money that your kid earned mowing lawns to buy a gun is a straw purchase. You probably won't get caught for it unless the cash is changing hands in front of an ATF agent, but don't plan on using the "everybody does it" excuse as your defense.

Just buy it as a gift. Not everything has to be a lesson. Shooting is not an inexpensive hobby, so chances are you aren't hard-up for the money to buy the gun anyway.

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