Longziz #2. Is it just a magazine for 7.62X39 AR?


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aerostar
December 31, 2011, 03:33 PM
Happy new year everybody!

This is a prototype accessory I made for AR15 rifle, and it is the second prototype I made related to AR15. The Longziz #1 story can be found here (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/554275_Longziz__1__a_new_way_to_use_an_AR_lower_receiver.html). also here http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=627618

If you have an AR15 in 7.62X39 caliber, I hope you would like it. If you don't, may be now there is one good reason to have one. :cool: Please let me know what you think. :D

My lawyer managed to file the patent application before the USPO close for the year. So it is ready to be shown to the public, and here you go for the video.

Longziz #2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i160RyAB2ow&context=C3417542ADOEgsToPDskKw3A-CH_FHN4IQ-0sUpnc7)

For those who are expecting Longziz #2 as another firearm, sorry if this disappointed you. Longziz #1 took almost three years to be finished manufacturing, while longziz #2 only took 2 days. So it is not hard to accept that #2 is just an accessory.

However, in terms the sequence the concept came into my mind, Longziz #2 is way earlier than Longziz #1. As you may know, the first AR I have ever bought is 7.62X39 caliber, and it was in the year 2006. The reason I didnít buy the 223 caliber is simple, my first rifle was a SKS and I donít have any other rifle in 223 caliber. To simplify ammo storage, I choose the 7.62X39 caliber instead. When I bought the rifle, I know the high capacity magazine is hard to find. A friend of mine also has AR in this caliber and he managed to collect almost all possible magazine for this caliber. However, none of them work flawlessly. By then, the Cproduct LLC was claiming developing 30 rounds magazine for this caliber. However, that claim lasted for more than two years. While waiting, I bought two Cproduct magazines, one in 6.5 Grendel caliber and one in 6.8 SPC caliber. One is with a blue follower and the other is with a black follower. They are not made for M43 rounds so I experienced a lot of jam when used on my 7.62X39 AR15. While waiting impatiently for the dedicated M43 magazine to come, my mind started to work in gear of what I can do to ease the frustration.

The idea is very simple. The M43 round will introduce far more tilt inside of the STANAG magazine comparing to other calibers. If a non-tilt follower is used, the rounds can have a nose dive if certain amount (very small) of ammo is inserted, hence more prone to induce jam. If a tilt-able follower is used, the follower tend to tilt too much if a large amount of ammo is inserted, such that the follower would slide into the gap between the round tips and the front magazine wall and cause the ammo tail sink into the cavity the follower left behind, which also introduce jam. So I thought, maybe I can use a two piece follower approach, one that is non tilt, while the other is tilt-able. This way, the follower assembly would be stable inside of the magazine, while the tilt-able piece to accommodate tilt introduced by the ammo.

I canít remember exactly why I didnít prototype this idea by then. Maybe it was only in 2006 and I had not felt the pressure of graduation yet. Or perhaps because I thought it was too expensive to make a prototype since all magazine followers are made by injection molding. Or partly because I thought that Cproduct will have the M43 magazine out soon so my design may have no use.

In the end, it took Cproduct more than two years starting from the first time they claimed to have the magazine out in a few weeks. By then, it is already 2008 (if I remember correctly), and I have already known that I was going to move to Germany, so that magazine did not mean much anymore, since I have to get rid of the AR. Besides, I had started the Longziz #1 project, so the follower idea was put into my back shelf, until I came back to the States to finish Longziz #1 for the last time. After all, I found out that after five years since the Cproduct had started to make the magazine for this caliber, we are still in the situation of not having the right magazine for this caliber. And I canít believe that no one else have come up a similar idea to address this. And for the two years that I was living in Germany, I have time to develop the idea even further. However, longziz #1 was still the priority, until now.

Range Report

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8cG-H0Fl2s&context=C3417542ADOEgsToPDskKw3A-CH_FHN4IQ-0sUpnc7

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ugaarguy
December 31, 2011, 04:30 PM
That's very innovative. It may not have the cool factor of Longziz #1, but I think Longziz #2 may prove quite profitable for you. Let us know when you get either followers or complete magazines into production, and thank you for sharing your efforts with us.

aerostar
January 1, 2012, 04:48 PM
Thanks for your kind word ugrarguy. I will try my best.

Guys, I need you help on testing Longziz #2.

Whoever lives in Chicago area, that either have an 6.8SPC upper and/or 6.5 Grendel upper, and willing to help, please contact me. I will ask a friend of mine to meet with you to use Longziz #2 on your rifle, to see if it can feed those caliber efficiently without any problems. Your help will be highly appreciated, and you are welcome to ask for return. Thanks!

Again, happy new year!

tyeo098
January 1, 2012, 06:52 PM
2 part follower... why didn't I think of that! xD

That, my friend is pure genius.

68wj
January 1, 2012, 08:17 PM
Nice concept! What mag bodies are you using the new followers in? I would think that a 5.56 mag's ribs would interfere, but the 6.5 or 6.8 mags would work well.

Drop by 68forums if you are still looking for Chicago testers. I am sure someone there would be ready to help. http://68forums.com/forums/forum.php

aerostar
January 2, 2012, 05:51 PM
68wj. As I said in the video, I bought two Cproduct mag, one is 6.8SPC, and the other is 6.5 Grendel. I forgot which one is which. The one I used in the video used to have the black follower. I tried my follower in the blue follower one also, and it worked the same, except I didn't take that to the range.

I will check out the 6.8 forum. Thanks!

68wj
January 2, 2012, 11:58 PM
Very good. I caught the purchase of the other mags, I just wasn't clear what the follower was being used in. Good luck with the development.

aerostar
January 5, 2012, 07:38 PM
It's been a week since I started the post and it seems to me that whoever figured out what the Longziz #2 really is didn't actually speak out. So let's cut the chase and reveal what the Longziz #2 really is.

The 7.62X39 has the most tapering casing among all AR calibers. If Longziz #2 can handle it with ease, theoretically it has the capability to handle any casing that its casing tapering is smaller than the 7.62X39. The #2 in this current configuration should be also feed 6.8SPC and 6.5 Grendel reliably without any changes. However, with my patent pending self adjustable mag shell design, the completed Longziz #2 is a universal magazine that can feed ALL AR15 double stack-able, center firing, rifle cartridges reliably.

I know, I don't have a video to prove that just yet. In last summer, I run out of time and production means so I didn't make the mag shell. However, if you have seen what I have shown, do you have the confidence to believe that what I said may very likely to be true?

:D:D:D

Hammerhead6814
January 5, 2012, 07:52 PM
No offense dude, but a Universal AR magazine? We'll have to see it to believe it. As in, we'll need to see the same magazine loaded up with 7.62x39, fired, then loaded w/ 6.8 SPC and fired (in an AR that's chambered for it of course), and then loaded w/ 5.56 and fired (in a 5.56 AR).

aerostar
January 6, 2012, 03:06 AM
That is exactly what I am trying to do here. Wait and see. :evil:

-v-
January 6, 2012, 05:02 PM
Looking a the 7.62x39 performance, I am very intrigued! Any chance of posting a video of how well it runs while shooting?

aerostar
January 6, 2012, 08:35 PM
what do you mean "runs", shooting when moving? Unfortunately my friend in Chicago do not have a range close by to do that.

Inebriated
January 6, 2012, 08:47 PM
I believe he means just how it works when actually firing.

If you get can show it putting 100 or so rounds flawlessly, I might have to get that 7.62x39 upper... Only thing stopping me is those ugly C-Products mags. Good luck!

gunnutery
January 6, 2012, 09:06 PM
Very cool. Good job on your innovations. I'm looking forward to seeing #1 in production (and hopefully at an affordable price).

aerostar
January 7, 2012, 05:55 AM
Well, by the end of the open post there is one video showing me shooting with it in the range. Here is the second range report.
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=DE#/watch?v=JHULHFcGZVE

And here is the third. But this one didn't show a full mag dump cause my camera memory card was full.

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=DE#/watch?v=oSX9N-WPzVU

aerostar
April 16, 2012, 05:09 PM
Hammerhead6814, you demand is my command. Here below is the link for the newest update. My friend Jimmy just helped me finished a crude mod on the mag and it now should be able to take any AR double stack-able caliber upper. However, Jimmy only have an 223REM and a 7.62X39 upper in hand, so for now I can only show him shooting 223 REM first and then shift to 7.62X39. Now we are waiting for the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC upper on order.

Stay tuned! There are more to come!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbRGzNjqijM&context=C4f0d59dADvjVQa1PpcFOBsPvWk1pZnUUX1BM1CD-NW5_G-qO4ky8=

-v-
April 16, 2012, 10:04 PM
So, when can we expect to see this product come to market?

gunnysmith
April 16, 2012, 11:18 PM
Very interesting project

If you enjoyed reading about "Longziz #2. Is it just a magazine for 7.62X39 AR?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!