Warnings about "celebratory gunfire"


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parsimonious_instead
December 31, 2011, 08:24 PM
Firing into the air for celebratory or other reasons is just plain wrong, but I don't remember hearing and reading so many warnings about it in years past.
Anyone else think there's been an uptick in these "warnings?"

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FIVETWOSEVEN
December 31, 2011, 08:41 PM
If you think it's okay to shoot into the air, you have a low IQ. No other way about it.

Shawn Dodson
December 31, 2011, 08:54 PM
When I lived in California in the early 90's in remember hearing bullets "whizz" down the street as people fired into the air.

Outlaw fireworks? Well then some people will fire their guns into the air for noise makers like they do in third world countries.

The law of unintended consequences.

W.E.G.
December 31, 2011, 08:57 PM
The people who negligently discharge firearms in unsafe directins DO NOT care about your warnings.

If you get hurt, its just a bonus for them.

Strykervet
December 31, 2011, 09:00 PM
If you think it's okay to shoot into the air, you have a low IQ. No other way about it.
A low IQ, a disregard or ignorance of the most basic elements of ballistics, and finally, negligence with regards to the safety of your neighbors.

I'd like to thank the morons that are doing right now down the street. They think they are doing it safely by firing it over our homes (you can hear 'em crack overhead from time to time) but they impact in a another populated area down the road!

Wow, just wow. I'd love to go blow a few off in the backyard, and safely into a berm, we have a little bit of land. But you aren't supposed to around here and I respect that. I can go shoot to my heart's content not all that far away, and I'm member of a range I can go to anytime I want that is literally ten minutes away, if that.

Please, unless you live somewhere you can safely do it like the sticks of Nebraska or Montana or an area similarly remote and safe, DON'T DO IT! People have died from this all over the US; it happens more often than it should.

Besides, it would be infinitely more fun at night to shoot can-o-lanterns with tracer rounds, don't you think? And that way you can account for all your impacts. Can-o-lanterns by the way, are coke cans or food cans with holes cut out so you can stick a chem light down inside to illuminate the can to make a glowing target. You can get creative with the designs you cut out, and they are lots of fun, especially when you score a hit on the chem light and have a cardboard "backsplash".

Just celebrate safely. I like shooting as much, if not more, than the next person, and I'd love to shoot to celebrate, but I refrain out of respect for others, their safety, privacy, and sense of security in their homes.

Oh yeah, HAPPY NEW YEAR!

NavyLCDR
December 31, 2011, 09:03 PM
Solution:

Muzzleloader with tissue paper wad instead of a ball.

parsimonious_instead
December 31, 2011, 09:03 PM
I'm not in any way questioning the idiocy of firing into the air, or any other sort of rule 4 violation - I just don't recall so many repeated warnings about it in years past. Just curious if anyone agrees that there's been an uptick.

Zoogster
December 31, 2011, 09:17 PM
Well not watching tv I don't know what warnings you are talking about.

However I would presume the need is much greater than in past years due to the large number of new shooters. Not only many more firearms are in households now, but many more are in the possession of people that were not part of the shooting community until recently and have limited experience and wisdom concerning firearms.


Guns have become much more mainstream in recent years, and a lot more ignorant people with limited firearm experience have them. This undoubtedly means a lot more people will be firing them into the air in celebration as TV and movies have taught them to do, before they learn that they shouldn't.
This also means the risk of death is greater than in the past from lead falling and killing people.
We will undoubtedly be able to read about people that died from celebratory gunfire tonight over the next week.

bikerdoc
December 31, 2011, 09:18 PM
Yes it has been upticking here for several years. Not close but close enough to hear.
Bunch of room temp I Q,s in certain areas.

animator
December 31, 2011, 09:20 PM
I'm not in any way questioning the idiocy of firing into the air, or any other sort of rule 4 violation - I just don't recall so many repeated warnings about it in years past. Just curious if anyone agrees that there's been an uptick.
As the level of gun ownership rises, so does, unfortunately, the level of asshattedness that some people tend to do with them.


The few always ruin it for the group.

trex1310
December 31, 2011, 09:24 PM
When our police chief was on the local news condemning this
practice one of our African American city council members
responded that it was cultural practice and he saw no reason
to heed the police chiefs warning. :uhoh:

hermannr
December 31, 2011, 10:08 PM
I would much rather have someone load a BP rifle or a shotgun with a non-flameable wad and fire it off into the air, or even "ring the anvil" rather than use fireworks up here where I live. Fireworks up here would everyone in a panic. There are public fireworks on Lake Osoyoos, 1st and 4th of July...that is enough fireworks for me.

Fire danger is way to high for fireworks...must be why they are banned.

BTW: No, I have never seen a local warning against celebitory firing of a firearm on the 1st or 4th of July, or New Years.

lloveless
December 31, 2011, 10:24 PM
Thank God I live in the country. I can shoot the shotgun and not hit any houses as the nearest one is over 700 feet away over a hill. Yippeeee, yahooooo. Happy New year. No I am not drunk!
ll

Ringolevio
December 31, 2011, 11:44 PM
It's not military vets, or NRA members, or members of this forum, or any other responsible and conscientious gun owners who are firing guns in the air.

It is, however, Third World people who have brought their Third World customs and lack of accountability here with them; or people who, despite having lived here all their lives, nevertheless have a Third World mentality.

An old friend in NYC recently informed me that the NYPD has been "instructed" to "look the other way" when members of a certain ethnic community in The Bronx (one of the world's most densely-populated areas) decide to emulate the way weddings and other events are celebrated in their native land, by firing AK-47s into the air.

Anything that the authorities might do to stifle this irresponsible and dangerous practice, you see, would be construed as "bigoted" and "_______-phobic".

saenzrich
January 1, 2012, 01:24 AM
+1 muzzle loader and paper wad....somethings gotta go boom

Happy New Year 2012

12gaugeTim
January 1, 2012, 01:46 AM
Straight up in the air? Isn't there this thing called terminal velocity?

Dr.Mall Ninja
January 1, 2012, 01:55 AM
We just had a thread about the Amish girl who got killed 1.5 miles away with a BP rifle....

Twiki357
January 1, 2012, 02:28 AM
The more warnings, the better. The more prosecutions, the better.

When I lived in the slime pit (Oops, I mean Los Angeles) I spent every January 1st and July 5th for 30 years up on my roof digging out bullets and patching the holes. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who fires in the air deserves the same between the eyes. I'm just glad I don't have to deal with it anymore.

FIVETWOSEVEN
January 1, 2012, 02:30 AM
The more prosecutions, the better.

Shot Spotter systems are good for these events, usually the people doing it I would imagine would be at their house, thus easily caught for the the deed.

Bovice
January 1, 2012, 02:38 AM
Straight up in the air? Isn't there this thing called terminal velocity?

There's also a drag coefficient. How much drag do you think a bullet has? That terminal velocity is going to be pretty high.

Shot Spotter systems are good for these events, usually the people doing it I would imagine would be at their house, thus easily caught for the the deed.

I don't think those are up to the task of pinpointing shot locations yet. All they have to do is hide the gun and say "wasn't me!"

Zoogster
January 1, 2012, 02:45 AM
I don't think those are up to the task of pinpointing shot locations yet. All they have to do is hide the gun and say "wasn't me!"

Actually they have installed similar permanent systems through several large cities and it can pinpoint to house location pretty well.


A couple even make the data publicly available.


They use microphones placed all around the city to triangulate the sound. Once they learn the specifics of the city and how a few areas bounce sound a little different then adjust the software accordingly the results are quite accurate.


They do little for violent crime because the shooter was not at their address typically, and they already know where the shooting took place anyways. So investing in the system does little for crime in most cases.
However it can be used to go after residents firing guns from their residence.

More attractively they give more control to those that want it. There is a lot of power in knowing immediately wherever any citizen fired a gun.

Crex39
January 1, 2012, 03:54 AM
A friend of mine on shift at the East Cleveland Fire Dept. took a video on his smart phone last new years eve. It sounded like Mogadishu out there. You could hear the difference in calibers and sounded like there was automatic fire. As long as they thin their own herd...

animator
January 1, 2012, 04:03 AM
A friend of mine on shift at the East Cleveland Fire Dept. took a video on his smart phone last new years eve. It sounded like Mogadishu out there. You could hear the difference in calibers and sounded like there was automatic fire. As long as they thin their own herd...
The last couple of years, I've spent New Year's at a buddy's place in Oak Cliff, Dallas. Anyone not familiar with the area, let's just say it can be a "rough" area. Every year we sit around a fire pit in the back yard listening to the gun shots, trying to determine calibers, with the occasional fireworks mixed in.


With a few non-gun people among us, it was fun to point out that those 15 pop-pop-pop sounds you just heard was a full magazine from a 9mm. Heard a lot of .22 and a few .45acp mixed in too.

cyclopsshooter
January 1, 2012, 04:17 AM
Solution:

Muzzleloader with tissue paper wad instead of a ball.

Did that just a bit ago with a flintlock pistol :)

scaatylobo
January 1, 2012, 10:47 AM
Not just "plain stupid" but SPECIAL stupid.

And of course you just know that consumption of drugs and or alcohol are involved.

"Stupid is,as stupid does" is the quote from Forest Gump = fits this subject all too well.

Rail Driver
January 1, 2012, 10:53 AM
I notice you're all assuming that everyone's firing into the air. I know quite a few people that rang in the new year by firing into a sand bucket or a (safe) backstop.

The Sarge
January 1, 2012, 11:15 AM
I am guilty. I shot a hog yesterday at dusk. I celebrated by shooting him again.

wlemay
January 1, 2012, 04:24 PM
Why do idiots have to shoot into the air (I know the answer; hence idiot)... there is this great stuff all over the place called "dirt" that stops bullets.

In my city we had all sorts of warnings about using illegal fireworks and shooting guns on new years yet, when 12:00 hit the town sounded like a warzone. I heard way more gun shots than fireworks; people are going to do it whether it is illegal or not. they might as well sell blank rounds at gas stations or the sheriff might as well rent a back hoe make some berms & set up designated shooting areas so people can safely go bang off a few then go home. Or they should at least advise that "if you do it" go buy a barrel & fill it with dirt or sand & shoot at that.

Sure it's not ideal as there would probably be drunk people shooting at the "designated ares" but they can always have a deputy with a breathalyzer going around; it is better than drunk people shooting wildly into the air. Besides with the amount of gunshots I heard last night it is impossible to enforce the law; you would need a few cops with patty wagons on every single street!

Not that I am condoning the practice: but instead of just saying dont do it; they should at least advise how to do it safely so others will not get hurt by the masses of people who do shoot.

Bovice
January 1, 2012, 04:54 PM
And of course you just know that consumption of drugs and or alcohol are involved.

That demon rum! It must be to blame!

groundsclown
January 1, 2012, 07:39 PM
12 year old hit (http://www2.tbo.com/news/breaking-news/2012/jan/01/1/police-ruskin-boy-wounded-by-holiday-gunfire-ar-342703/)

1911Tuner
January 2, 2012, 07:40 AM
Shooting live ammunition into the air?

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e243/1911Tuner/stupid.jpg

Friendly, Don't Fire!
January 2, 2012, 07:56 AM
I laid in bed, hearing all the popping and cracking of all manner of noise-makers, including people obviously shooting. I was going to get up, get warm clothes on and take the 12 gauge out where I have a berm in my lawn that I was going to shoot against.

Then I remembered how the lady just two houses away gets all freaked out, and I thought "why waste my ammo just for that?"

Then I thought of my 500 Magnum (4" barrel), with some W296 loads I have worked up. The thing will shoot a ball of light the size of a small car! Then I thought "naaah, my shoulders and chest were sore already, why make them worse?"

So, for about 40 minutes (20 each side of midnight), I got to hear the people all making noise. I told my wife that thirty years ago, you might have heard one or two people shooting or setting something off, sometimes none! Thirty years later and there must be an awful lot more people than thirty years ago as the banging was far and close and was non-stop!

I agree, shooting a rifle, handgun or shotgun on an angled-shot into the air is a recipe for distaster.

steelerdude99
January 2, 2012, 09:16 AM
When our police chief was on the local news condemning this
practice one of our African American city council members
responded that it was cultural practice and he saw no reason
to heed the police chiefs warning. :uhoh:

This is an example of the worst kind of stupid: Condoning a crime as a "cultural practice". It put's a seemingly official okay on a negligent criminal act. In addition, it undermines police creditability.

Chuck

HankB
January 2, 2012, 10:26 AM
As a kid growing up in Chicago, there seemed to be a distinct difference in what you'd hear between the 4th of July and New Year's Eve: fireworks on the former, gunfire on the latter. (Despite Chicago's fireworks ban, it sounded like D-Day all evening - and much of the afternoon - on the 4th.) I remember seeing tracers arcing over the city on New Year's. :eek:

Firing a shotgun with small birdshot into the air is a minor hazard; I mean, it has NO place in an urban environment, but small birdshot will only go a couple of hundred yards at most and will shed so much velocity it will be harmless unless it hits someone in the eye. (Which CAN happen in a crowded city, especially with people looking up to see what's going on.)

Falling bullets, on the other hand, can be quite deadly - especially if they're not fired straight up. Look at most news footage of people shooting guns in the air, and you'll see that frequently they're at a 45 degree angle - or less. Definitely deadly when they come down - which makes it criminally negligent behavior.

robMaine
January 2, 2012, 10:36 AM
I can't believe that this is so common where a lot of you are from. Fireworks I am totally fine with, but if my neighbor started popping rounds off into the air or otherwise I would be pissed. Maybe I would send some "celebratory" gunfire their way... :evil: For all of the safety nazis, that was joke.

armoredman
January 2, 2012, 11:11 AM
I posted my warning poster on several gun forums, best I could do. When I went outside at midnight, I heard some firecrackers, which we legalized in 2010, and very, very few gunshots.
"Joy bullets" may be a "custom" in some other countries; here in AZ it will get you prison time.

Ringolevio
January 2, 2012, 12:45 PM
I frankly don't care how "safe" you make it (dirt-filled barrels, berms etc.); to me, "celebration" is under no circumstances a valid reason to discharge a firearm.

The only valid reasons should be:
A) Practice/Training/Shooting Sports/Competition
B) Hunting/Varmint control
C) Defense
D) Signaling (e.g. when help is needed)

There's a mindset that says that "unless we're buzzed/drunk and playing music deafeningly loud (or otherwise making lots of noise) we're not really having fun". Maybe it's just 'cause I'm an old fuddy-duddy, but I neither subscribe to- nor sympathize with that mindset.

Serenity
January 2, 2012, 12:54 PM
People always save some fireworks for New Year's and WA state allows pretty big ones. One of our neighbors has been doing a pretty good show every NY for 10 years. We have a newer neighbor up the block who started shooting for the first time (he's lived here for about 5 years now). I don't know if he was shooting into the air or into the ground and wasn't about to go discuss it with him. :rolleyes: And yeah, he's definitely the guy who brings down everyone else's property value.

Think Twice
January 2, 2012, 01:12 PM
HOLY CR@P!!! Where do some of you live? Ill put them on my list of "places not to move to". Around here if you hear a gun shot someone is usally dead. I can't say I've never done that ( celebratory shooting) but it was in western wisconsin on acreage and NEVER into the air.

WALKERs210
January 2, 2012, 01:31 PM
It was my intentions that if I was up around midnight to let loose about 100 rounds of 7.62 x 39 BLANKS. Back a few months ago I ordered what was suppose to be 100 rounds and with my dyslectic in full force wound up with 1000 rounds. No problem grand kids have a ball with them. But true to form when the NEW YEAR came around I was already sawing logs. Firing up into the air is about as dumb as re electing our current president.

Zoogster
January 2, 2012, 02:25 PM
I wouldn't shoot blanks either.

While safe, others do not know they are blanks and it adds to the apparent acceptance of firing into the air.
Which encourages others to bring out live ammo and join you, then or in a following year/holiday because you helped make it appear to be a normal thing to do.

It increases the overall number of apparent shooters, adding both apparent acceptance of the act and anonymity for those firing real rounds into the air.


So your safe or blank firing are encouraging the moron that wants to shoot their gun to do so, without any of the safety precautions you may have taken. Giving them confidence to just join the apparent crowd of shooters.

animator
January 2, 2012, 02:32 PM
Local news article had a story about a bullet landing through someone's roof and going through their ceiling. While probably not deadly at that point, it's still a PITA factor of having to patch the holes.


Guess the next time it rains, I'll find out if any bullets landed through my roof... :rolleyes:

Dnaltrop
January 2, 2012, 06:41 PM
Black powder Thundermugs, No projectile, just Sound. ;)

http://www.pyrocreations.com/salute_cannons

Next door neighbor's youngest daughter caught a round through the top of her foot years back. A trajectory can be a scary thing. Most of these rounds aren't fired at a perfect 90 degree angle from the earth.

Zoogster
January 2, 2012, 07:05 PM
Most of these rounds aren't fired at a perfect 90 degree angle from the earth.

The mythbusters show did a huge disservice to society with their conclusion. I views based on its conclusion repeated over and over.


Not all bullets tumble when falling when shot straight up, many retain spin stabilization and fall base first with a much higher terminal velocity and are actually still dangerous even shot at a 90 degree angle.


Heavier bullets are even more dangerous because they retain more momentum and energy, a shotgun slug fired straight up, and large bullet weight pistol and rifle calibers fall with deadly force even shot at a 90 degree angle. Its only the lighter bullets that don't retain enough energy while tumbling back down to be real dangerous.


Finally many people firing rapid fire at a '90 degree' angle will have several rounds let loose at something other than a 90 degree angle as recoil causes muzzle climb and/or they are casually compensating for recoil and the muzzle direction varies.

Dnaltrop
January 2, 2012, 07:08 PM
Haven't watched that show in a good number of years... but also true. Most of the naysayers tend to scream "terminal velocity" as gospel to claim that a falling bullet would bounce harmlessly off of someone. The truth is almost no round will be fired at a flawless perpendicular to the plane of the earth.

My usual example is the 45-70 round and the Rainbow trajectory. Insane drop, and people still were staying on target once they were sighted in.

Ala Dan
January 2, 2012, 07:45 PM
Birmingham, AL Police answered over 2,000 calls; mostly for celebratory
gunfire from 1500 hrs 12-31-11 to 0600 01-01-2012; but only 9 arrest
were made, and 9 guns confiscated. Sorry, but there is something WRONG
with this picture. A dude up the street from me aired out his Taurus 454
Casull; but he still owns the weapon~!

Powerglide
January 2, 2012, 08:57 PM
Well I live in the country and I shot into a berm.And I don't care who likes it, or not.

NavyLCDR
January 2, 2012, 09:07 PM
Well I live in the country and I shot into a berm.And I don't care who likes it, or not.

You...you...REBEL! :evil:

Pete D.
January 3, 2012, 06:12 AM
I can shoot the shotgun and not hit any houses as the nearest one is over 700 feet away over a hill. Yippeeee, yahooooo. Happy New year. No I am not drunk!

You don't believe that a shotgun has a range of two hundred and three yards?

About the AK-47's in the Bronx and the Police ignoring them......Have you ever been in the Bronx? On the Grand Concourse? Along Westchester Ave? In Morrisania? Any part of the Bronx?
I have no trouble believing that there are people stupid enough to shoot illegal weapons in to the air but an order to ignore?
I have a lot of trouble believing that what your friend told you is true.
Pete

StrutStopper
January 3, 2012, 09:49 AM
12 year old hit (http://www2.tbo.com/news/breaking-news/2012/jan/01/1/police-ruskin-boy-wounded-by-holiday-gunfire-ar-342703/)
I read about this this morning. I wonder what the chances are that somebody will be charged with the shooting.

hacksaw
January 3, 2012, 09:56 AM
Last month in Baghdad, Iraq played and beat Jordan in soccer/football. SOunded like a MAJOR firefight for about an hour....I was cringing wondering where all of those rounds were going to impact..

RangerHAAF
January 3, 2012, 10:07 AM
Well I live in the country and I shot into a berm.And I don't care who likes it, or not.
I agree with you, shoot em if you got em'.

Ringolevio
January 4, 2012, 01:48 AM
Pete D.:
About the AK-47's in the Bronx and the Police ignoring them......Have you ever been in the Bronx? On the Grand Concourse? Along Westchester Ave? In Morrisania? Any part of the Bronx?
I have no trouble believing that there are people stupid enough to shoot illegal weapons in to the air but an order to ignore?
I have a lot of trouble believing that what your friend told you is true.

That was my post. So I'm glad somebody actually read it. Or maybe you didn't; my signature indicates I grew up in NYC, so you really shouldn't have to ask me if I've ever been in The Bronx.

Yeah. In high school (in the '60s) I rode the subway to date girls on Fordham Rd., Mosholu Pkwy. and in Riverdale. And in the '80s I helped a friend drive his produce truck in and out of the Hunts Pt. Market (for those who don't know, that's the world's largest produce terminal, and a place you don't want to go alone or unarmed) night after night. That's in the 41st Precinct; their house used to be called Fort Apache.

You are of course free to believe or disbelieve anything you wish. But I could just as easily ask you if you know anything about the NYPD. Let's just say that on the job in NYC there's a lot of "looking the other way", but in this matter it came from the bosses.

The "celebratory shooters" belong to a particular ethnic community (from the Balkans) who have a "presence" in The Bronx (mostly along Lydig Ave. in Morris Park, in the 49th Pct). My friend knows whereof he speaks.

esquare
January 4, 2012, 03:57 PM
I have to look up the mythbusters thing - I don't believe it. A skydiver has about a 220 mph terminal velocity. That's 322 ft/s and I have to believe that a 158gr slug from a 38 is going to be higher than that. Even at 322ft/s, that speed will ruin someone's day in a hurry.

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