NRA worthless?


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springwalk
December 31, 2011, 09:21 PM
Like the ACLU, I get bombarded by e-mail or regular mail by these two D.C. based special interests ALWAYS asking for money. When I was young and dumb I use to give to the NRA, especially when Clinton was occupying the Whitehouse, but when they still cried wolf when Bush was Prez I figured they were just another business looking for money. Do you give the NRA money today? why? Obama hasnt done anything bad I'm aware of except for the bogus ATF Fast and Furious plot that didnt work . I figure if the 2nd Amend cant stand on its own then we are all screwed anyway. What do you think?

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floorit76
December 31, 2011, 09:25 PM
I lost my job 7-8 years ago, and was going to school while trying to get by. The NRA called one night looking for a donation. After I explained my situation, the caller said that even a small donation would be appriciated. I asked how much a "small" donation was. She said that even as LITTLE as $500 would by fine. I hung up, and let my membership lapse.

Yo Mama
December 31, 2011, 09:28 PM
Ok, number 5 anti-NRA bashing thread this week here we go! Thanks OP.

If you want to enjoy your gun rights on the backs of those that support the largest progun lobby then at least show some respect. Sorry they bother you by asking for your financial support.

Obama hasnt done anything bad I'm aware of except ... Hey how are those 2 new Supreme Court Judges working out? Wake up.

M-Cameron
December 31, 2011, 09:30 PM
Do you give the NRA money today? why? Obama hasnt done anything bad I'm aware of except for the bogus ATF Fast and Furious plot that didnt work . I figure if the 2nd Amend cant stand on its own then we are all screwed anyway. What do you think?
hahaha....im sorry, i had to laugh...

"well obama hasnt done anything bad......other than aid drug cartels in smuggling illegally obtained weapons over the border, leading to the death of at least one American, and countless Mexican citizens..........but other than that, nothing bad..."

22lr
December 31, 2011, 09:30 PM
If you have any idea how congress works you know that the NRA is one of the largest and most powerful organizations in DC. Yes the requests for money can be annoying, just call and ask to be taken off the mailing list.

hso
December 31, 2011, 09:31 PM
Since the value of the NRA has been discussed several times before I'll provide the synopsis of those discussions and how this one will go.

Yes

No

Sometimes

I figure if the 2nd Amend cant stand on its own then we are all screwed anyway.

Like the 2nd stood on its own during the AWB or in DC or in Illinois or New Jersey or in NYC or ...? You have to defend your rights or they'll be taken by those that think they know better than you how you should live.

M-Cameron
December 31, 2011, 09:35 PM
If you have any idea how congress works you know that the NRA is one of the largest and most powerful organizations in DC. Yes the requests for money can be annoying, just call and ask to be taken off the mailing list.

the thing i dont get is why people find the "junk" mail to be so infuriating........?

its only a letter for goodness sake.....its not like it costs you anything.....you dont want it, throw it out and be done with it.....

i mean, are these people actually ragging over the fact that they got a letter.....or are they just trying to justify not joining?

Yo Mama
December 31, 2011, 09:35 PM
Since the value of the NRA has been discussed several times before I'll provide the synopsis of those discussions and how this one will go.

Yes

No

Sometimes



And can we please close the thread now. :)

JohnKSa
December 31, 2011, 09:35 PM
I figure if the 2nd Amend cant stand on its own then we are all screwed anyway. What do you think?I think you don't remember the 1968 GCA.

I think you don't know what things were like between the passage of the 1968GCA and the 1986 FOPA.

browneu
December 31, 2011, 09:35 PM
I lost my job 7-8 years ago, and was going to school while trying to get by. The NRA called one night looking for a donation. After I explained my situation, the caller said that even a small donation would be appriciated. I asked how much a "small" donation was. She said that even as LITTLE as $500 would by fine. I hung up, and let my membership lapse.

I'm a member but this type of situation is one of the things that bothers me about the NRA. The way they write some of their correspondence is the other. However, I firmly believe that we would have more of our 2A rights restricted without them.

springwalk
December 31, 2011, 09:43 PM
Taking the "highroad" excessively can lead one to be a stooge or unrealistic fool. The NRA needs to moderate the shakedown process of gathering funds. Its does no good to rally folks with redmeat when all is well on the homefront. It does a huge disservice when the time comes we really need them in dire situtation as some may question the previous "cry of wolf" motive and not aid when in need. Like the ACLU, NRA is useful at times.

JohnKSa
December 31, 2011, 09:46 PM
NRA is useful at times.So what do you suggest they do during the times you think they're not useful?

A large and effective organization, particularly one that needs to maintain a network of contacts to be functional, can't just shut down to save money for years at a time until they're needed.

The bottom line is that if you want them to be useful "at times" they have to be funded ALL the time. You can't just send them into hibernation when you think they're not needed.Taking the "highroad" excessively can lead one to be a stooge or unrealistic fool.But fortunately you're above all that, right? :rolleyes:

jcwit
December 31, 2011, 09:49 PM
Just another worthless NRA bashing thread.

RNB65
December 31, 2011, 09:58 PM
I love the NRA. Am I a member? Yes. Do I give them money? No. But I do love them! :)

rcmodel
December 31, 2011, 10:00 PM
All I can tell you is, the NRA is the ONLY reason we are setting here tonight on a gun board bitching about & defending them.

Were you able or willing to remember what all went on after 1962, you would know we would not be able to own guns today were it not for the NRA.

So we wouldn't even be on a gun board talking about it now.

Yes, I agree they and the ILA beg, whine, and beg some more, way too much.

But it is all we have, so join and get used to it.

Like the old guy said:
As gun owners, We either hang together, or we hang separately.

rc

JohnBT
December 31, 2011, 10:01 PM
"I figure if the 2nd Amend cant stand on its own then we are all screwed anyway. What do you think?"

I got another mailing from the NRA and I was going to toss it. But no, because of you I'm going to send them the $350 to upgrade my membership to Benefactor.

Thank you.

Whatever your objective was with your post, it backfired. :neener:

col.lemat
December 31, 2011, 10:01 PM
I have been a 1966 life member as a Christmas present from my father. You needed a sponcer back then and a neighbor sponsered me in 1965. The two times that I requested semple help and imformation they let me down. Maybe they help me in some way that I dont know about. At least I hope so.

Liberty1776
December 31, 2011, 10:02 PM
Yes I donate, but rarely. I'm also a Life Member. I also support SAF and GOA along with the NRA. Why? Because they are more effective in fighting the fight in D.C. than I am...

JohnBT
December 31, 2011, 10:03 PM
"Its does no good to rally folks with redmeat when all is well on the homefront."

What the hell country do you live in?

Geez, I might send them some extra bucks too.

lloveless
December 31, 2011, 10:06 PM
I sometimes give money to the NRA. I am a Life Member. With 70 million gun owners and only 4million of them members of the NRA, it is a wonder that we have any rights left. If you wish to bash the NRA I respectfully ask you to sell your guns.ll

Evil Monkey
December 31, 2011, 10:07 PM
NRA ain't doing much to combat GCA and its prohibited person clauses. That's the main issue. Not AWB's, not permits, not licenses, or open carry bullcrap.

The main issue is how easily you can end up a prohibited person, and the NRA isn't doing anything about it.

JohnBT
December 31, 2011, 10:08 PM
A year ago he was bragging that he'd quit voting.

Man, how old were you when you were "young and dumb"?

Larry Ashcraft
December 31, 2011, 10:12 PM
She said that even as LITTLE as $500 would by fine. I hung up, and let my membership lapse.
I call BS. Membership is $35 per year.

I own a business and talk to fundraisers at least once a week. Most will ask for $50 and settle for $35 (or in my case, nothing).

NONE insist on, or even ask for, $500.

floorit76
December 31, 2011, 10:14 PM
It wasn't a membership, I was already a member. She was looking for a donation. Please don't call me a liar.

springwalk
December 31, 2011, 10:17 PM
I think theres more need to give the NRA cash when all the stubborn GOPers vote in Romney than a need to give during Obama. Either way, if the 2nd cant stand aon its own then as I said we are all screwed. NRA isnt that vital.

Walkalong
December 31, 2011, 10:21 PM
All I can tell you is, the NRA is the ONLY reason we are setting here tonight on a gun board bitching about & defending them.
Absolutely.


NRA bashing befuddles me. Are they perfect? Heck no, but they are the best thing going for us.

Get in the game and start supporting people and organizations that protect our 2nd Amendment rights.

I also find it hard to believe she would ask for $500 under the circumstances. Never say never though. You could have gotten an idiot on the phone.

545days
December 31, 2011, 10:32 PM
The NRA is powerful because it can mobilize votes. The purpose of all that junk mail is to keep their membership energized. If you really want to support the second ammendment, act on every piece of junk mail they send. Answer the polls, call you politicians, send the cards to your representatives, etc.

When they send you the mailing you can expect them to also ask for a donation. If you are too lazy to bombard your elected representatives with reminders that the second ammendment is important, then you should send a check.

Otherwise plan on having a "boating accident" at some time in the future.

jcwit
December 31, 2011, 10:35 PM
Can't do politics so we complain about the NRA every week.

Do I detect some logic here?

kimbernut
December 31, 2011, 10:40 PM
Remove the rose colored shades! There is never a time when our rights are safe! If we do not remain forever vigilent we will most certainly lose our second amendment rights. The NRA is our friend whether you see it or not. Are their donation pleas annoying? Sometimes, but 4 million NRA members out of 80 million gun owners nationwide. We need help carrying the load folks.

floorit76
December 31, 2011, 10:45 PM
I have been considering a life membership since they have been selling them so cheaply lately. I believe the NRA does good things. But at the time, considering how little money I had to play with, and the bad taste from the condescinding woman on the phone, I never renued. I have been a member of the IRA/ILA (IL), and attend the IGOLD concealed carry/gun rights rally/march every year. And contribute what we can while there.

rcmodel
December 31, 2011, 10:47 PM
There is never a time when our rights are safe!
And if you don't believe that?

Wait till after the next presidential election when the incumbent wins again.

Four more years without a third term possible?

We for sure are going to need some help carrying the load then.

Cause it's gonna hit the fan folks!
You can bet on it!

rc

AK_Maine_iac
December 31, 2011, 10:49 PM
NRA member: YES

Donate: Yes

I give what i can. When i was going through my battle with cancer all i could afford was a check for $25.00. They cashed it, and sent me a thank you letter.

Browns Fan
December 31, 2011, 10:53 PM
Some of you guys kill me with your lame excuses why your not an NRA member. If you own a gun, or even if you dont. If you care at all about freedom, you should join the NRA and donate when you can.

One day you will wonder what happened to our 2nd amendment rights and blame the NRA for that, too!

Happy New Year!!

Carl N. Brown
December 31, 2011, 10:57 PM
I have followed the gun control debate since the days of Carl Bakal's scare mongering "This Very Day a Gun May Kill You" in the late 1950s. Bakal claimed the only obstacle to the utopia of all guns being rounded up was the NRA. The politicans who wanted the 1968 GCA to be far more restrictive all blamed the NRA for blocking their plans. The gun prohibitionists blame the NRA for blocking them. Enuf fer me.

DeepSouth
December 31, 2011, 11:01 PM
Do you give the NRA money today?

Yes.


why?

Because without them we would have fewer gun rights, and without our money they wouldn't exist.


Just Facts, like them or not.
DS

Browns Fan
December 31, 2011, 11:09 PM
I also dont understand the rudeness and hanging up on the call from the NRA. These people are VOLUNTEERS doing their part to support our freedoms. They at least deserve a little, if not a lot, of courtesy.

I give when I can, if I cannot, I tell them. It is as simple as that.

jcwit
December 31, 2011, 11:13 PM
I also dont understand the rudeness and hanging up on the call from the NRA. These people are VOLUNTEERS doing their part to support our freedoms. They at least deserve a little, if not a lot, of courtesy.

Not to sure about them being volunteers, more than likely they're working for a fund raising company which it attempting to make money and the NRA receives a portion of the proceeds.

floorit76
December 31, 2011, 11:15 PM
I didn't say I was rude, but I did say she was very condescending. If I know me, I said thanks but no thanks and hung up. If that is the rudest call she had that day, it was a good day.

gym
December 31, 2011, 11:18 PM
The NRA is necessary, don't think you can do without them. It's the other organizations that somehow get your email or number, that send out the scary solicitations, asking for money for faxes to congress and the senate, on a weekly basis, and several new ones that I just send to "junk mail" that have suddenlly jumped in for so called contributions. Make sure it's the NRA that's sending you mail and not some scammer.
I got 2 from national gun rights, today asking for money.

medalguy
December 31, 2011, 11:24 PM
I guess some folks look at the NRA like the military. The are a necessary evil in times of need, but all the rest of the time, stay out of the way and don't be seen or heard. Remember what it was like right after Vietnam? Mililtary bad, hippie good. Fortunately times do change.

NRA life member since 1965
Texas State Rifle Assn life member since 1982

And yes I still donate to both.

stickhauler
December 31, 2011, 11:36 PM
I think theres more need to give the NRA cash when all the stubborn GOPers vote in Romney than a need to give during Obama. Either way, if the 2nd cant stand aon its own then as I said we are all screwed. NRA isnt that vital.

OK, that's about as uneducated a statement as I've ever seen. So electing Romney will kill the 2nd amendment, but re-electing Obama won't? Clearly you are not paying attention.

NRA ain't doing much to combat GCA and its prohibited person clauses. That's the main issue. Not AWB's, not permits, not licenses, or open carry bullcrap.

The main issue is how easily you can end up a prohibited person, and the NRA isn't doing anything about it.

Oh, so protecting our rights, like preventing a new issuance of the AWB, or trying to get concealed carry an option every American can choose isn't the real problem? Of course, ending the prohibited person classes the GCA put into place is the true struggle?

So which group of prohibited persons should have their rights restored?


(1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

(2) is a fugitive from justice;

(3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));

(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;

(5) who, being an alien, is illegally or unlawfully in the United States;

(6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;

(7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship; or

(8) is subject to a court order that restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child, except that this paragraph shall only apply to a court order that --

(A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual

notice, and at which such person had the opportunity to participate; and

(B)(i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or

(ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or

threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child

that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury.

Gee, seems to me like people like that should be prohibited from owning firearms. But maybe that's just me. Somehow, it seems people are willing to claim grave injustices as a result of the NRA allowing these sections to stand, but refuse to understand that IF NOT for the NRA insisting sections be changed in the act, you wouldn't see handguns even manufactured today, let alone sold. And trust me, the public opinion of handguns at that time would have allowed them to be forever banned in America.

A question was asked in this thread asking if some folks would use anything to justify them not being a member. I'd say that pretty much covers it!

Evil Monkey
December 31, 2011, 11:57 PM
1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year

Extreme amounts of non-violent, victimless felonies and misdemeanors exist that can revoke your 2ndA rights permanently and have thousand of dollars worth of your firearms confiscated.

3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act

Terrible clause. A man in ohio called the police after a firearm was stolen. They came and arrested him for felony firearms possession because years earlier, he had a marijuana citation and in the state of ohio, ANY drug violation, no matter how small, gives you permanant loss of 2ndA rights.

(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;

Involuntary committment is abusable and people have lost their rights when it was unneccessary. You don't even have to be judged "mentally defective" to lose your rights because the first thing that must happen is get involuntarily committed. The whole point of involuntary committment is observation, but you lose your rights in the process.

(8) is subject to a court order....

The most abused of all. I don't even need to go into detail.

Gee, seems to me like people like that should be prohibited from owning firearms.

You make me sick.

Art Eatman
December 31, 2011, 11:59 PM
EvilMonkey, what should the NRA do against the GCA, etc.?

To sue against any agency's regulations, there must be standing and even then only when there is liklihood of winning--which means a knowledge of precedent. And insofar as laws proposed in Congress, the NRA can only lobby, not give orders--and if you don't have the votes the best you can do is pray for a favorable compromise.

IOW, not one pro-gun organization has been effective in repeal of any GCA. N.O.N.E.

springwalk, the idea is to build up a war chest during quiet times of lesser drain on the NRA treasury so that it can quickly get to work in the event of a legislative or regulatory-agency problem. That's why the unending "dunning" for money. Why worry about it, though, since if you don't care to donate, the circular file is always available. Phone calls? "Not at this time, but thanks for calling." No need to be rude to anybody.

stickhauler
January 1, 2012, 12:36 AM
Quote:
1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year
Extreme amounts of non-violent, victimless felonies and misdemeanors exist that can revoke your 2ndA rights permanently and have thousand of dollars worth of your firearms confiscated.

Quote:
3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act
Terrible clause. A man in ohio called the police after a firearm was stolen. They came and arrested him for felony firearms possession because years earlier, he had a marijuana citation and in the state of ohio, ANY drug violation, no matter how small, gives you permanant loss of 2ndA rights.

Quote:
(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;
Involuntary committment is abusable and people have lost their rights when it was unneccessary. You don't even have to be judged "mentally defective" to lose your rights because the first thing that must happen is get involuntarily committed. The whole point of involuntary committment is observation, but you lose your rights in the process.

Quote:
(8) is subject to a court order....
The most abused of all. I don't even need to go into detail.

Quote:
Gee, seems to me like people like that should be prohibited from owning firearms.
You make me sick.

Well, at least we have a dialogue going. Of course, the thousands of people who were found to be insane since that law passed really should have their right to own guns, right?

1 January 2012 will be the first anniversary of the shooting of a Clark County Sheriff's Deputy, gunned down by a prohibited person who got a shotgun through his girlfriend's father. This prohibited person lost his gun rights because he had murdered a person about 20 years ago, but got off the murder charges because he was adjudged criminally insane.

And of course, we should restore all people who lost their rights because of domestic violence convictions, shouldn't we? You NEVER hear of someone who is so manly that they get off on beating women going the extra mile and bringing a firearm into the equation, do you?

Your example of the guy in Ohio who had lost his right to bear arms because of a drug charge years ago has been solved. Ohio changed the law this past September to allow prohibited persons to get criminal charges that placed them into the prohibited status expunged from their record. Surely this guy had to know his gun rights were revoked by his "citation."

Most any law passed ends up hurting someone through the unintended consequences of a provision painting with a broad brush, instead of zeroing in on specific situations. But completely throwing out the clause is preferable to you, since you can cite a few examples of people who fell through the cracks.

So I make you sick? Stay classy guy!

Evil Monkey
January 1, 2012, 01:09 AM
So I make you sick? Stay classy guy!

You can spin your argument any way you want. The reality is, there are many innocent people who have unjustly lost their rights, whether due to an uneeded involuntary committment or domestic violence conviction because the woman beat herself up to get the man arrested.

All efforts must be focused on eliminating these asinine clauses. The only people that needs to lose their rights are violent criminals convicted of hardcore felonies.

N003k
January 1, 2012, 01:25 AM
My only complaint about the NRA so far is that they somehow got my Grandmothers number, and called there trying to get me to some survey, and donate.

And when I happened to be there when they called, and asked why that number was listed for me, they couldn't answer, and just kept trying to get me to take the survey, despite being told it's not my actual number, and offering to GIVE them my actual number.

That was a serious *** moment.

Other than that, don't blame them for trying to get donations, they need them to continue operating, and they NEED to continue to operate even when there aren't any current direct threats to the 2nd Amendment, otherwise they won't be able to do anything when there IS a threat.

Fred_G
January 1, 2012, 01:32 AM
I see these threads all along in forums. Is the NRA perfect? NO. I am a member, I do sometimes buy stuff from them. I do receive notices about how my membership is about to expire, need to renew.. But it expires in March. Other than that, no phone calls or excessive mailings.

I think overall they are a good group to be a part of. The people who oppose the 2A are relentless. In my opinion, they WILL take any opportunity to snag even the smallest right away from the 2A if they get a chance.

platform
January 1, 2012, 01:47 AM
@springwalk
Obama hasnt done anything bad I'm aware of except for the bogus ATF Fast and Furious plot that didnt work . I figure if the 2nd Amend cant stand on its own then we are all screwed anyway. What do you think?


The above is a 'consequence' of the successful work that NRA and other gun rights organizations do.


If NRA is reading this -- I would definitely prefer a member ship option with 'no contact'. In other words, no calls, no permanent records, no junk mail, nothing.

Evil Monkey
January 1, 2012, 01:47 AM
If 1 million people gave the NRA $10 a year, that equates to 10 million dollars a year. That's alot of money. Then again, I don't know how much lobbying costs.........

If it costs less than 10 million a year, the NRA is banking big time because I'm pretty sure they're getting a hell of alot more than that.

JohnKSa
January 1, 2012, 02:00 AM
They do a lot more than lobby.

Why don't you look into everything they do--based on your comments, it sounds like it might surprise you.

JShirley
January 1, 2012, 02:38 AM
Taking the "highroad" excessively can lead one to be a stooge or unrealistic fool.

You know, not only is this an untrue and foolish statement, your entire post sounds like you're trying really, really hard to sound wise. You don't.

John

Sav .250
January 1, 2012, 07:35 AM
Ok, number 5 anti-NRA bashing thread this week here we go! Thanks OP.

If you want to enjoy your gun rights on the backs of those that support the largest progun lobby then at least show some respect. Sorry they bother you by asking for your financial support.

... Hey how are those 2 new Supreme Court Judges working out? Wake up.
Everybody asks for money. Give, don`t give but at least be a member.

+1

TheProf
January 1, 2012, 07:48 AM
Support and join the NRA. This organization has done more to support the "Right To Bear Arms" than a thousand critics combined!!!

I just don't get it why some gun people criticize this group. While not perfect....they have done A LOT of good for our cause.
Can you think of any other individual/group that is doing more to advance 2nd amendment rights?

The Lone Haranguer
January 1, 2012, 07:51 AM
If you don't want to receive mailings or calls, I'm sure there is a box you can uncheck somewhere. :scrutiny: And to say they are not really "needed" just because there is a momentary "lull" at the federal level at this time ignores the fact that there are 50 states trying to introduce or pass anti-gun and anti-hunting legislation at a given moment. (Yes, 50.)

jad0110
January 1, 2012, 07:54 AM
I also find it hard to believe she would ask for $500 under the circumstances. Never say never though. You could have gotten an idiot on the phone.

Me too. Dare I say, sounds like the OP may have experienced an attempted fishing scam. You know, where a "representative" of such and such reputable organization calls and asks for a credit card donation, or your "bank" calls asking for your account number and PIN because they lost it. Turns out to be some low life scumbag that empties your bank account.

I donate every now and then, but I don't do it when I'm called. I'll always look up the phone # myself, or go to the website directly.

whalerman
January 1, 2012, 08:08 AM
The NRA is our best and strongest advocate. A strong NRA is in our interests. To say Obama hasn't done anything negative towards gun rights is completely foolish. Those Supreme Court appointees will hurt liberty for a generation. And Fast and Furious was a set up towards much deeper and draconian gun laws. The program just didn't work as The Great One intended. Very disappointing OP. Open your eyes.

redneck2
January 1, 2012, 08:21 AM
After reading some of the "wisdom" here, my sig line appears to become more and more relevant...

bikerdoc
January 1, 2012, 08:42 AM
I'll stand by the NRA, despite minor warts and all.

alsaqr
January 1, 2012, 08:55 AM
i've been an NRA member for over 50 years. If there were no NRA you could not own an air rifle in the US today. Each NRA funds drive nets about one million dollars. Only about ten percent of NRA members ever contribute one cent to the ILA or PVF.

i just love it when gunowners break bad on the NRA. They complain about the threats to their "gun rights" but refuse to contribute the price of a premium six pak of beer to help secure those rights: Go figure.

Nce
January 1, 2012, 09:00 AM
Iam a legal alien residing in the US and come from a country where legal gun ownership is nearly impossible. I feel very fortunate to call America home and appreciate the rights that are extended to me. I also happen to be more of a liberal than most(can't vote so I am harmless). The NRA is one of the few organizations that I contribute to. My appreciation of an organization that defends rights that I enjoy outweighs my somewhat liberal leanings.

Skyshot
January 1, 2012, 09:15 AM
No other country has the NRA. No other countries enjoy the firearm freedoms we have here in the USA. No one MAKE'S you contribute or join. So you people who think the NRA membership is not worth the price of a box of ammo, move to another country and see how you like thier rules and regulations.

LKB3rd
January 1, 2012, 09:19 AM
I'll never join the NRA. I noticed at a certain point that they participate in writng anti gun legislation. This has several problems, the first one being obvious- they should be fighting this legislation, rallying their members. I realize they claim to "soften the blow" but I reject this explanation.
The second, and bigger problem, is that they act much like unions "bargaining on our behalf" except that I , as a gun owner, never joined, and don't want to join, and I don't want them bargaining away my rights for me. The politicians then get to claim that "The NRA endorses this legislation" which is a HUGE enabler for them to do this sort of thing.

i just love it when gunowners break bad on the NRA. They complain about the threats to their "gun rights" but refuse to contribute the price of a premium six pak of beer to help secure those rights: Go figure.

This reminds me of another problem. Many people think that sending a check to the NRA ="fighting for our rights," as if this is the only way to do so. I encourage people to get out and personally take action. And due to the reasons mentioned above, I believe that you are actually contributing to a group that diverts your energy that could be used in better ways.

I think they are a "Judas Goat." (google it)

gwarslayer
January 1, 2012, 09:23 AM
all i got to say on all of this is wow lolololololololololololol

JimPage
January 1, 2012, 09:25 AM
Springwalk:

If it were not for the NRA, you wouldn't have a gun to talk about on this forum. You need to read more. If you don't like the solicitations, throw them out.

I figure you're a young person and don't remember the major attacks on your rights. It's too bad. I feel sorry for you, and for those who listen to you.

You are not the first person to be exercising your right to bear arms and shifting the cost to people like me.

Proud Benefactor Member of the NRA and gun owner.

LKB3rd
January 1, 2012, 09:34 AM
If it were not for the NRA, you wouldn't have a gun to talk about on this forum. You need to read more. If you don't like the solicitations, throw them out.


This is absolutely false. We very possibly wouldn't have the 1968 legislation that they helped write, because without their (eta replacing endorsement with)involvement the politicians would have had a much harder time getting away with it.

Oh crud, am I in a forum argument now? I didn't want to do that :/

jon_in_wv
January 1, 2012, 09:36 AM
I would say the way the left gripes and complains about how much influence the NRA has in Washington shows it is at least doing its job. That is worth the price of admission to me. Defending out rights against a government that historically doesn't want us to have them is hardly, "crying wolf" as the OP would have you believe. He conveniently ignores the fact we have had democrat controlled Congress with republican Presidents and republican Presidents who have cut deals at our expense with those Congress. There have been NUMEROUS attacks on the 2nd amendment during the Bush years and every single year. The OP needs to do his homework.

matrem
January 1, 2012, 09:57 AM
I'm aware of two reasons to not join N.R.A.

1. One is not interested in, or even against true freedom.
2. One is naive and doesn't realize what they do, and what's really at stake.

jcwit
January 1, 2012, 10:04 AM
I'll never join the NRA. I noticed at a certain point that they participate in writng anti gun legislation. This has several problems, the first one being obvious- they should be fighting this legislation, rallying their members. I realize they claim to "soften the blow" but I reject this explanation.
The second, and bigger problem, is that they act much like unions "bargaining on our behalf" except that I , as a gun owner, never joined, and don't want to join, and I don't want them bargaining away my rights for me. The politicians then get to claim that "The NRA endorses this legislation" which is a HUGE enabler for them to do this sort of thing.


Quote:
i just love it when gunowners break bad on the NRA. They complain about the threats to their "gun rights" but refuse to contribute the price of a premium six pak of beer to help secure those rights: Go figure.

This reminds me of another problem. Many people think that sending a check to the NRA ="fighting for our rights," as if this is the only way to do so. I encourage people to get out and personally take action. And due to the reasons mentioned above, I believe that you are actually contributing to a group that diverts your energy that could be used in better ways.

I think they are a "Judas Goat." (google it)


I suppose its all right to feel the way you do. So far there has been enough of us to carry those that feel the way you do on our backs and with our moneys without your support.

When this fails to be the case, you will turn in or register your firearms just as the rest of us will do.

Till then, enjoy the freedoms we provide for you.

PowerG
January 1, 2012, 10:08 AM
I certainly disagree with some of the things they've done, and they have had me completely exasperated at times, but there are other times when they have been absolutely vital in preserving 2A rights. Definitely worth a membership.

lloveless
January 1, 2012, 10:54 AM
LKB3rd, GCA was in 1968. The people who headed up the NRA then are gone. GET OVER IT. It was a long time ago. This is now and for the last 30 years at least they worked tirelessly to gain rights. Such as ccw in most states now. I respectfully request that if you don't like the NRA or contribute to another 2nd amendment organization that you go a head and turn in your guns. YOU DON'T DESERVE THEM. You are either with us or against us. Your choice.
ll

porchdog
January 1, 2012, 11:23 AM
Maybe if you follow this website you will not be as likely to make stupid posts about the value of the NRA.
http://www.nraila.org/

GEM
January 1, 2012, 11:31 AM
Read the NY Times editorial page. That would be the view without tireless advocacy for the RKBA. Only O/U shotguns for the rich and famous to play birdie hunter.

Recall the during the administration before the current one, the President was for signing a renewal of the AWB. It was grass level pressure on the Congress that insured the bill didn't get to him. That pressure comes from the NRA and good state organizations.

The Lone Haranguer
January 1, 2012, 11:54 AM
I would say the way the left gripes and complains about how much influence the NRA has in Washington shows it is at least doing its job.
This is a good point. Other than the generic term "gun lobby," the NRA is the only gun rights organization they mention by name. That shows how much they hate and fear them.

sgtstryker
January 1, 2012, 12:05 PM
Happy New Year to all. If you are a gun owner, you should be an NRA member. I've been a member since 1976, even through my active duty years when pay wasn't too high. I'm up to the Benefactor level now, thank goodness. They aren't perfect. But they stand for EVERYONE's right to own a firearm in this country. Never under estimate the enemy. The present administration is the enemy in this fight. A second term will show you nay sayers..please pay attention to what has been said on this thread.

USMC8541
January 1, 2012, 12:07 PM
What would life be like today without the NRA? WOULD THIS FORUM EVEN EXIST?

357 Terms
January 1, 2012, 12:07 PM
If it were not for the NRA, you wouldn't have a gun to talk about on this forum.

My membership is paid up , but even I know thats not true.

When Clinton introduced all the AWB crap in his first term the American public voted, turning congress into a majority for the GOP, leaving him toothless in his second term.
80 million (voting) gun owners can speak alot louder than the NRA.

jcwit
January 1, 2012, 12:12 PM
My membership is paid up , but even I know thats not true.

When Clinton introduced all the AWB crap in his first term the American public voted, turning congress into a majority for the GOP, leaving him toothless in his second term.
80 million (voting) gun owners can speak alot louder than the NRA.

Ever occur to you what prompted the masses of folks to go out to vote? Perhaps the mailings and work by the NRA getting people to do it.

Yup 80 million "not sure just where those numbers you got came from" can do alot when they are informed by the NRA.

sgtstryker
January 1, 2012, 12:12 PM
Ain't it the truth. Complacency is fact of life. This country seems to thrive on it, at times..

CajunBass
January 1, 2012, 12:16 PM
It doesn't matter if it's the NRA or something else. People who want an excuse to have someone else carry the load will find some justification for it.

It's ok. Those of us who do, do it willingly. I can't speak for anyone else, but I figure those who don't want to get into the fight, probably wouldn't be worth much in the clutch anyway. Just stand aside and don't get in the way.

jcwit
January 1, 2012, 12:16 PM
I only wish folks would get this passionate about voting.

Owning firearms and then kicking the guy in his jewels for supporting his rights just doesn't make sense.

But then the older I get I find the dumber I get.

Well put CajunBass

brickeyee
January 1, 2012, 12:19 PM
The NRA-ILA is supported completely by donations.

It does not get money from NRA dues.

It IS the political lobby arm of the TAX EXEMPT NRA.

It must be separate or NRA loses the tax exempt status.

ljnowell
January 1, 2012, 12:22 PM
Well, at least we have a dialogue going. Of course, the thousands of people who were found to be insane since that law passed really should have their right to own guns, right?

1 January 2012 will be the first anniversary of the shooting of a Clark County Sheriff's Deputy, gunned down by a prohibited person who got a shotgun through his girlfriend's father. This prohibited person lost his gun rights because he had murdered a person about 20 years ago, but got off the murder charges because he was adjudged criminally insane.

And of course, we should restore all people who lost their rights because of domestic violence convictions, shouldn't we? You NEVER hear of someone who is so manly that they get off on beating women going the extra mile and bringing a firearm into the equation, do you?

Your example of the guy in Ohio who had lost his right to bear arms because of a drug charge years ago has been solved. Ohio changed the law this past September to allow prohibited persons to get criminal charges that placed them into the prohibited status expunged from their record. Surely this guy had to know his gun rights were revoked by his "citation."

Most any law passed ends up hurting someone through the unintended consequences of a provision painting with a broad brush, instead of zeroing in on specific situations. But completely throwing out the clause is preferable to you, since you can cite a few examples of people who fell through the cracks.

What a way to take things to the extreme and imply things a person didnt say! Congratulations.

BCCL
January 1, 2012, 12:30 PM
In all my years as an NRA member, I have never received a phone solicitation that asked for an amount as high as $500.00.

Typically $25.00-$50.00 is the amount discussed, and I'm talking about donations, not membership renewals.

buck460XVR
January 1, 2012, 12:31 PM
The NRA is good at a lotta things. Subtle fundraising is not one of them. It's a necessary evil. Part of the problem is the folks they contract to do the fundraising. Just yesterday I got a call from them. The caller's English was so bad I could barely understand what she was saying. It was readily apparent she was reading a script and had no idea what the 'ell she was talkin' about. She told me the call was a followup about the new membership card that had been mailed to replace my old one. I told her I had not yet received it. She then told me they needed more money(I knew this was coming) to take back the country that had been taken away from us. When I asked "what country?" and "how has it been taken from us?", she went silent for a while and then went back to reading her script. Don't know what she said after that, cause I hung up.

Fundraising is primarily sales. Pressure tactics in sales work well for those sitting on the fence. Since there are many fence-sitters when it comes to gun control, it is a popular tactic for the NRA. The solution is pretty easy, give or hang up. Mail in another check or file the latest junk mail in the garbage. To dwell on it is foolish.

gp911
January 1, 2012, 12:40 PM
I don't know how the NRA subs out the phone solicitations, but the asking for a large amount tactic is common in that arena. It's the door-in-the-face technique, applied poorly in this case. You ask for an unreasonable amount then suggest a much lower amount afterward. It's actually a proven technique, a friend of mine many years ago had to use it when fundraising for his alma mater and he was shocked how often it worked.

I'm a Patron Member myself & l still donate. If you choose not to then don't cry about incrementally losing your rights state by state and city by city. If you think the NRA is worthless you aren't paying attention. They are our voice in DC and in the state legislature. If one lousy fundraiser call & some junk mail infuriate you to the point you can't resist telling the world how the NRA has failed you then you weren't that interested in protecting the 2nd Amendment to begin with.

FROGO207
January 1, 2012, 01:43 PM
I've been a NRA member for years. Yes they are not always doing what I WANT them to do. Still they are doing the best they can within ALL THE MEMBERS COLLECTIVE WISHES. If you want to help change the way they operate become a life member and get your vote counted in the organization. As stated the NRA and the NRA-ILA are separate and you can choose where your donation goes for the most good. FWIW I opted out of the mailings and phone contact 7 years ago. To date I have not received one--That's NADA-- call or mailing from them at all. I still do donate as I can and they do not ever beg me for more than I care to give.
Anyone who thinks things with respect to the 2ND amendment are going to continue status unchanged without the NRA's help has their head in the sand all the way to their ankles IMHO. You would also believe that the US illegal drug problem will go away if you ignore it long enough I am also willing to wager.:banghead:

Gaffer
January 1, 2012, 03:39 PM
I didn't read all the posts so I may have missed some but one thing the NRA does is give grant money to start up clubs and clubs that are sponsoring junior shooting. I am Treasurer of my small club and they have given us several thousand dollars to buy target rifles and jackets for our Junior Rifle program. Those who are NRA opposition will be the first ones to squark and hollar when the going gets tough but they never give as much as the NRA does for these programs.

mingo
January 1, 2012, 03:57 PM
If the NRA was to disappear...SO WOULD YOUR GUNS PERIOD!

mingo

Pilot
January 1, 2012, 04:00 PM
Obama hasn't done anything beyond Fast and Furious? How about the two anti 2A Supreme Court judges he appointed?

Read this:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/12/28/president-obamas-anti-gun-agenda-shows-no-sign-stopping/

mes227
January 1, 2012, 04:16 PM
So what do you suggest they do during the times you think they're not useful?

A large and effective organization, particularly one that needs to maintain a network of contacts to be functional, can't just shut down to save money for years at a time until they're needed.


The VAST majority of the money goes to either legal expanses or political campaigns. Which absolutely means they can - an should - scale it back (or ramp it up) as circumstances dictate. I dropped my NRA membership almost 20 yrs ago because, in part, of this fundraising strong arm tactics. I rejoined recently as they do more good than harm. But they lose a lot of peoria like me because they don't moderate.

TCB in TN
January 1, 2012, 04:55 PM
I am not a huge fan of the NRA, in large part because there have been times where the NRA's stance has seemed to be more concerned with self perpetuation than with protecting the 2nd. Over all I think the ACLU has been far more successful in its impact on protecting a number of civil rights than the NRA has been with protecting the 2nd. IMHO we as gun owners would be far better off supporting the ACLU and molding their agenda to match ours than expecting the NRA to really protect us. If I remember right the ACLU has only about 50k member were the NRA has over 4 mil.

One issue is that the NRA has a much broader purpose, and I freely admit that there are a number of programs that the NRA does a great job with. But again I believe that there are better organizations when it comes to protecting our 2nd Am rights.

Tiberius67
January 1, 2012, 05:08 PM
Obama hasnt done anything bad I'm aware of except for the bogus ATF Fast and Furious plot that didnt work.

Most people would consider that deliberately arming Mexican drug cartels to bolster thier argument for more gun control to be enough, but that's just part of what he's been up to.

Obama has:

-Named two virulently anti-gun judges to the SCOTUS
-banned import of rifle barrels for "assault weapons"
-reversed State Department regs by the previous Administration that would have allowed importation of all the M-1 rifles and Carbines in storage in South Korea
-banned the importation of semi-auto shotguns like the Saiga 12
-put in ATF mandates to force FFLs to report purchases of mutiple rifles in the SW US.
-tried to stop the sale of used brass to civilians
-tried to ban possession of firearms on public lands that had been used for hunting and shooting for decades.

That's just what I can think of off the top of my head...no doubt there is more.

leadchucker
January 1, 2012, 05:22 PM
Yeah, the NRA's cheesy barrage of junk mail gets on my nerves. Losing my second amendment rights would get on my nerves even more though.

Like it or not, the NRA is the only entity capable of effectively resisting the efforts of Chucky, Babs, Hil, Diane, Barry, and the like.

AlexanderA
January 1, 2012, 05:35 PM
I've been a life member of the NRA since the 1960's, so joining or not joining is not an issue for me.

I'll never forgive the NRA for throwing machine gun collectors under the bus in 1986. They should have pulled the plug on the FOPA rather than let this Hughes amendment poison pill go through. I'm still waiting for the NRA to make a push for its repeal.

stickhauler
January 1, 2012, 05:35 PM
Quote:
So I make you sick? Stay classy guy!
You can spin your argument any way you want. The reality is, there are many innocent people who have unjustly lost their rights, whether due to an uneeded involuntary committment or domestic violence conviction because the woman beat herself up to get the man arrested.

All efforts must be focused on eliminating these asinine clauses. The only people that needs to lose their rights are violent criminals convicted of hardcore felonies.

OK, let me get this visual straight. A woman beats herself up to get her spouse arrested? Sure, happens all the time, just like Jim Carey in "Liar, Liar."

Funny, most cops I've ever known hate to respond to DV calls, because many times when they start "hooking up" the husband, the wife attacks the cops. Suddenly, they turn into lovebirds, and the cops are arresting the old man without cause.

There are many innocent people not allowed to enjoy their right to defend themselves without breaking some asinine law a city has imposed as well. And they have never had a criminal charge against them, or been placed in a mental health facility.

I'm not spinning anything, you're the one who said fighting the fight against idiotic politics that restrict law abiding people from practicing their 2nd amendment rights shouldn't be the focus of the NRA.

stickhauler
January 1, 2012, 06:00 PM
If it were not for the NRA, you wouldn't have a gun to talk about on this forum. You need to read more. If you don't like the solicitations, throw them out.
This is absolutely false. We very possibly wouldn't have the 1968 legislation that they helped write, because without their (eta replacing endorsement with)involvement the politicians would have had a much harder time getting away with it.

Oh crud, am I in a forum argument now? I didn't want to do that :/

Oh man, even more uneducated comments than earlier. Every time I think I've seen one that's really bad, someone has to up the ante a little bit.

I take it you weren't alive in 1968. I was, and the anti-gun crowd had the votes to pass their initial agenda, a complete ban on handguns, registration of long guns, etc. Pretty much your shooting options would have been a single shot shotgun and a small caliber rifle. Remember, there are still some states that refuse to allow hunters to use a high caliber rifle for hunting, Ohio is among them. Deer hunting with modern firearms means you use a shotgun and slugs.

The public perception at the time was that law abiding citizens had NO need for a handgun, and hunters needed nothing bigger than a 12 gauge shotgun and a .22 rifle.

The NRA did not "help" write the law, they fought to keep certain things out, like the registration process for long guns and the handgun ban itself. That's the best deal they could work at the time. Congress was controlled by the Democrats in both houses of Congress, the Senate had 67 Democrats during the 90th Congress. The House was 247 Democrats/ 187 Republicans.

You're wrong, the Gun Control Act of 1968 would have passed as the initial version had it not been for a helluva lot of work by the NRA to get rid of at least some of it.

stickhauler
January 1, 2012, 06:11 PM
Quote:
Well, at least we have a dialogue going. Of course, the thousands of people who were found to be insane since that law passed really should have their right to own guns, right?

1 January 2012 will be the first anniversary of the shooting of a Clark County Sheriff's Deputy, gunned down by a prohibited person who got a shotgun through his girlfriend's father. This prohibited person lost his gun rights because he had murdered a person about 20 years ago, but got off the murder charges because he was adjudged criminally insane.

And of course, we should restore all people who lost their rights because of domestic violence convictions, shouldn't we? You NEVER hear of someone who is so manly that they get off on beating women going the extra mile and bringing a firearm into the equation, do you?

Your example of the guy in Ohio who had lost his right to bear arms because of a drug charge years ago has been solved. Ohio changed the law this past September to allow prohibited persons to get criminal charges that placed them into the prohibited status expunged from their record. Surely this guy had to know his gun rights were revoked by his "citation."

Most any law passed ends up hurting someone through the unintended consequences of a provision painting with a broad brush, instead of zeroing in on specific situations. But completely throwing out the clause is preferable to you, since you can cite a few examples of people who fell through the cracks.
What a way to take things to the extreme and imply things a person didnt say! Congratulations.


Your opinion. Not mine, but you have every right to it. He said the prohibited persons clause needed ended, and that should be the focus of the NRA instead of issues they're currently working on. I fail to see how focusing on something we're not going to see, instead of something that we could see progress on, makes sense.

For every person prohibited based on mental health issues like the person I offered as an example, we have likely hundreds or thousands who are under the radar. The government doesn't keep records of any and all contacts with them regarding mental health issues, nor do they keep a data base that would contain the names of people who should certainly be prohibited. Just like the young man charged with shooting Congresswoman Gifford.

I never said people didn't fall through the cracks using the broad-brush methods used in defining the law. But IMHO, throwing out the entire clause is akin to throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Patriotme
January 1, 2012, 06:16 PM
1) Clinton gave us the Assault Weapon Ban and the Crime Bill. Shortly thereafter the Republicans took back the House and Senate. The NRA played a large part in this. Just say thank you.
2) Why do you think that Bush let the AWB expire? Again, thank the NRA.
3) Why are there Blue Dog Democrats? They fear losing office due to gun owning voters. It's the NRA that constantly remind the voters who our friends are. Without the NRA we'd be relying on Factcheck and the MSM for info on a politician's record on guns.
4) Obama nominated TWO ANTI GUN justices for the Supreme Court. This is a lifetime position. These justices can do a lot of harm over the next few decades.
5) Many of our gun friendly Blue Dog Democrats supported the nomination of these anti gun Supreme Court Justices. The NRA will remind us of this in every election that they participate in.
6) If you don't like the NRA or chose not to support the organization then that's fine. Don't however pretend that we gun owners have nothing to worry about. Do not pretend that we would be enjoying our 2nd Amendment rights without the NRA.

The Sarge
January 1, 2012, 06:16 PM
You know from time to time I am critical of the NRA publicly. I get frustrated with them sometimes. After reading this entire thread I will not do that again. The NRA is standing between us and those that would destroy the Constitution. Others also are working hard (2nd Amendment Foundation etc.)...but the NRA is feared by those that wish to destroy the 2nd. I will hold my tongue going forward.

MADDOG
January 1, 2012, 06:19 PM
I am a member of the NRA. I pay my membership fees every 5 years. I donate when I can. I own and carry firearms everyday. I'm happy and satisfied with the whole organization. Join up and become a member, there are worst things out there to be part of.

Fred_G
January 1, 2012, 06:31 PM
I am a member of the NRA. I pay my membership fees every 5 years. I donate when I can. I own and carry firearms everyday. I'm happy and satisfied with the whole organization. Join up and become a member, there are worst things out there to be part of.
I am not totally satisfied with them. BUT, I am a member, and I think they do more good than bad for gun owners.

Matthew Courtney
January 1, 2012, 06:50 PM
I am the shooting sports committee chairman for Calcasieu Area Council Boy scouts of America. In the past two years, NRA has given just our little Council over $20,000 to build and improve ranges, conduct summer camp programs, ect. NRA supports many other youth programs: 4-H, Junior Deputies, JROTC, High School and College competitive leagues, ect. In the years since Hurricane Rita devestated area gun clubs, NRA has given thousands to rebuild area shooting facilities... The list goes on and on in just about every community in the United States. Anyone who thinks the NRA is only about politics is ill-informed.

sgtstryker
January 1, 2012, 07:15 PM
Thank you. "Nuff said" .

JohnKSa
January 1, 2012, 08:15 PM
The VAST majority of the money goes to either legal expanses or political campaigns. Which absolutely means they can - an should - scale it back (or ramp it up) as circumstances dictate.No, that simply can NOT work. In order to remain effective they MUST maintain a network of people inside the system who can help them do their job.

It's ridiculous to say that when things are going well they should scale back--the fact that things are going well is, in large part, due to the fact that the machine that is the NRA is working properly and it's working properly because it has the money and resources to do what it needs to do.

If you scale it back, it could literally take years to ramp things back up again when (notice I didn't say "if") it's needed again.

whalerman
January 1, 2012, 08:25 PM
I thought it was funny that one of the critics of the NRA lumped in the ACLU as a comparable example of annoying fundraising. What we have here is an unlabeled attempt at trolling. Anyone who values gun rights would not be making some of these claims. The $500 suggestion is another dubious account of what actually happened. I've been a member of NRA for 30 years. Never have gotten a call like that. Nothing close.

floorit76
January 1, 2012, 08:32 PM
You guys sure do know how to make a guy feel welcome. How many times in this thread has my honesty, if not my intentions, have been questioned? I sure am glad I came here and gave an HONEST account of what happened to ME. Maybe I got the new guy, maybe it was a scam, fishing for suckers, I don't know. But it happened. And I'm getting darn tired of defending myself about it.

whalerman
January 1, 2012, 08:41 PM
Well it's almost irrelevant if it happened or not. And if it did, so be it. What is more important is whether or not we continue to support our main gun rights defender or if we succumb to people who say that because things aren't perfect, we abandon the NRA. There are some undeniable facts. The antis, the Chuck Schumers and the Barack Obamas and the Pelosi types would like nothing more than to see support for the NRA wane. That way they can continue to chip away at our rights with little in way of a national organization to counter their propaganda. Our enemies include them, the teacher unions, the media, and the entire Obama administration. You have an Attorney General willing to lie to Congress and break the law just to forward his agenda. And don't think this doesn't come from the top. So we can fight, or we can fight amongst ourselves. I, for one, am amazed that we have gun enthusiasts, which I assume respect the Constitution, claiming Obama is not a threat to our freedoms. The world has been turned upside down.

floorit76
January 1, 2012, 08:49 PM
I can't say I disagree with any of that. Except for that part about "it doesn;t really matter if it happened or not". It matters to me, because if I have no credibility here, I have no reason to continue to come here. I have posted since that I believe the NRA does good things, and that I will probably join agian. But the original question is if I send them money, I posted why I don't.

langenc
January 1, 2012, 08:53 PM
To the original poster::

Talking about OBAMA et al--

How about the thousands of M1 rifles and maybe carbines that Korea wanted to give/sell back to the US.. Hillary and Barry said "NO IMPORTATION OF THE GUNS." You wont see that on the nightly news. Quit watching it..and the leftist NRP

whalerman
January 1, 2012, 09:08 PM
I understand, floorit. I apologize for the way I spoke of that. I can understand your feelings. I really do believe we get trollers here that package this NRA hatred in with their biases. I cannot understand how anyone can look at this administration and not be concerned. I realize the media has sway over people, but I think it's more a product of our government schools. But enough on that. I understand how you feel, Floorit, and I apologize for my part in piling on. Be safe.

floorit76
January 1, 2012, 09:11 PM
Thank you for the apology. Where I'm from a mans word is still a valuable thing.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
January 1, 2012, 09:21 PM
The NRA is a political machine and like ANY machine, it needs fuel. Money is that fuel. As stated in a few other posts, the NRA does MUCH more than political lobbying. It helps fund countless organizations geared towards firearms education for young people. It helps fund historical establishments geared toward education of the masses about the history of our great nation and what helped make it great. Another little known fact it seems is that the NRA also has a fund (one that is suffering greatly and needs our support) for legal aid for people that have had their rights infringed upon.

Does the machine need some work? Of course, every machine needs improvement. Nothing or no one is perfect and yes they have made mistakes. But to say that the NRA is simply not needed is, to put it mildly, naive at best.

I have lived a lot of places and now live in the most restrictive state in the country as far as firearm rights are concerned. The NRA has been working tirelessly for 40+ years to help overturn some of the crap that goes on here in Illinois and it is finally starting to make some headway. The Chicago "machine" has lost Daley finally! Now, if we could get rid of the rest of the rats, maybe the only armed people on the streets won't be just the criminals!

Proud supporter of the NRA for 30+ years

FROGO207
January 1, 2012, 09:50 PM
Another thing that the NRA provides is low cost insurance to shooting ranges. Ask your local range or club who insures it and I will bet 90% will say they are NRA charter members and have their insurance through the NRA. That alone should help you choose to support them. I have challenged many in the past to show me a better pro 2A group and I would send my money there instead. No one has even tried to challenge my statement with facts yet.:scrutiny:

john wall
January 1, 2012, 10:30 PM
Horse Hockey!

Uncle Wayne does a lot more than collect funds. Is the NRA perfect? No.

However, they are the best we have. They have the clout in court. The Friends of the NRA raises and dispenses a lot of funding for advancement of shooting, helping young athletes get started in a lifetime of shooting, and much more.

They also heavily fund training and shooting programs. Recently, I spent a week at the United States Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs. We had Coach Training, continuing education, and training for the National Coach Development Staff, all on Uncle Wayne's dime.

BTW, I have been a Life Member since the early 60's, and a Benefactor Member since the late 80's. I have not gotten a phone call from the NRA wanting money.

stickhauler
January 1, 2012, 11:28 PM
I have lived a lot of places and now live in the most restrictive state in the country as far as firearm rights are concerned. The NRA has been working tirelessly for 40+ years to help overturn some of the crap that goes on here in Illinois and it is finally starting to make some headway. The Chicago "machine" has lost Daley finally! Now, if we could get rid of the rest of the rats, maybe the only armed people on the streets won't be just the criminals!

Sadly my friend, I don't see the Daley family "replacement" as much of an improvement, I'd say it's more of the same. But keep chipping away at it, and the best of luck to you and your state.

SSN Vet
January 2, 2012, 12:14 AM
Perhaps you should investigate who backed the Keller and McDonald cases.

But hey, they're only the two most important 2nd amendment case victories in a century!

SSN Vet
January 2, 2012, 12:16 AM
And without the NRA underwriting gun club insurance, many (if not most) clubs would shut down overnight.

hso
January 2, 2012, 12:27 AM
Still not replying to the obvious fact that the 2nd hasn't stood on its own?

C'mon now. No one here is foolish enough to accept that you aren't fully aware of the facts. That somehow you've just awakened from a 20 year nap and know nothing of the efforts to take the right of the individual to keep and bear arms away is just unbelievable. What point are you trying to make when we all know that rights that are not jealously guarded are lost.?

Ignition Override
January 2, 2012, 12:39 AM
Because of the NRA's lobbying efforts and their influence years ago, not just on Al Gore's re-election results, I would prefer that the NRA has lots of cash available.

After the last presidential election, the new "leaders" in the White House Executive Branch remembered the cost to Al Gore, and realized that their fresh political capital (then newly-acquired, but limited political power) should not Yet be frittered away on gun issues.

The NRA keeps both the White House and members of Congress focused on political positions which will get them re-elected.
If a certain presidential "flavor" becomes elected to a Second term, with much less to lose, maybe the NRA will need cash even more than now?

On the other hand, we could Stop supporting the NRA, and trust Senators Schumer, Feinstein, Boxer etc.

Some folks might search Youtube for "Suzanne Gratia Hupp", where she brilliantly described to a smug, arrogant Senator Schumer exactly Why she was forced to legally leave her handgun in the car before being present at the Luby's massacre in Killeen, TX, and how both of her parents and others died as a result. Her campaign helped introduce legal carry into that region. Do any of you guys/gals "carry"?
None of the Hupp, or the NRA legislation happened as a result of people sitting around and doing nothing.

Some US taxpayer and Brit./Euro cash (via the UN and several more organizations: "...Arms Control...") has already paid South Africa, Nigeria and other nations (who need cash) to destroy obsolete military bolt-action rifles, such as Enfields, Mausers....not just AKs. We know that war lords prefer to give their child warriors WW2 bolt-actions and heavy, long Garands...

A guy even witnessed Enfields being destroyed at govt. orders, in a S.A. gun shop. There are many more just waiting to be chopped, maybe even US property such as M-1s which were loaned to South Korea long ago, and might be returned, but are being blocked by our "leaders" in the White House. Please excuse the length, but these are just a few of the issues.

rskent
January 2, 2012, 05:39 AM
Why is it exactly that you think Obama hasn’t done anything yet? And how exactly
do you think the NRA can afford to keep fighting for YOUR second amendment rights?

JohnBT
January 2, 2012, 08:33 AM
"and the bad taste from the condescinding woman on the phone"

It surely doesn't take much to ruin your day if some telemarketer hired to make phone calls has this much of an effect on you. What year did this happen in and why is it still stuck in your craw?

leadchucker
January 2, 2012, 10:51 AM
Like the ACLU, I get bombarded by e-mail or regular mail by these two D.C. based special interests ALWAYS asking for money. When I was young and dumb I use to give to the NRA, especially when Clinton was occupying the Whitehouse, but when they still cried wolf when Bush was Prez I figured they were just another business looking for money. Do you give the NRA money today? why? Obama hasnt done anything bad I'm aware of except for the bogus ATF Fast and Furious plot that didnt work . I figure if the 2nd Amend cant stand on its own then we are all screwed anyway. What do you think?

Sounds like nothing has changed.

we are not amused
January 2, 2012, 11:19 AM
If you hate the NRA, then you hate gun ownership.
They are the 800 pound gorilla of lobbying.
I am proud to be a member, I donate as the need and ability dictate.
Is the NRA perfect? No, but we can't all be like the OP.:rolleyes:

http://www.dmoz.org/Society/Issues/Gun_Control/Pro-Gun_Rights/Organizations/

This is a list of pro-2nd Amendment groups. All or many of them deserve our support.

Belong to as many or as few as you wish-But BELONG!

Belonging to more than one organization is important, but belong to the NRA!

It is THE MOST effective gun lobbying group out there!

Other groups, such as the Second Amendment Foundation might have a better track record on court cases, but the NRA is the PREMIER GUN LOBBY!

Is their constant begging for money annoying? Yes it can be, that is why I have a trash can, for it and all the credit card offers. Doesn't mean I want to be deprived of either one! Just that I don't have to respond to everyone. Same goes for their telemarketing, my standard reply is that I don't make donations over the phone, (true, I don't to anyone) but that I will consider sending a donation through the mail.

No one on this forum has a legitimate excuse for not being a member of the NRA! Shame on you if you are not!

xfyrfiter
January 2, 2012, 11:30 AM
If every gun owner in the USA, were a member of the NRA, then our gun owners rights would be a lot safer. The power of sheer numbers would be on our side. And yes i am a life member, and i own a trash can.

Owen
January 2, 2012, 12:16 PM
I first joined the NRA when I was 11, so I could participate in smallbore rifle.

That would be 1986. I clearly remember the other shooters shunning people that showed up at the range with things like HK-G3s that are now widely coveted. If it wasn't WWII or earlier milsurp, a target rifle, or a bolt action hunting rifle, the owner was more or less a pariah at that club. Handguns were for shooting one handed at circles only.

I remember people talking about FOPA. At the time the reaction to the machine gun ban was "So-What?" This was an 100%NRA club. If that was the attitude at the time, I don't see why the NRA would have had much of a problem with the Hughes amendment, had it hadn't been a last minute addition. What the membership did care about was getting thrown in person for crossing state lines with a gun, ammunition registration (people were worried about their duck guns, remember?) As an organization that depends on members donations, it has to represent the membership. If the membership largely didn't care, why would the NRA?

Times have changed and so has the NRA. There is now ONE state that has no provision for concealed carry. In 1986, that number was something like 35 states forbade it. (I'm having a little trouble finding the map. THR should maybe host it if it can be located)

In 1986 gun owners were rightly worried about having their shotguns and deer rifles banned and confiscated. That possibility was regularly mentioned on the news, in newspapers, and magazines like Time and Newsweek. Now the immediate concern seems to be if its OK for the Federal government to require the states to recognize permits from other states, and the DOJ is running scared because they were found out in a bid to market some gun control. In 1986, they didn't need any marketing. Bit of a sea change no?

That's largely because of the NRA.

We are now well into rolling back encroachments that have existed for so long that they are almost cultural, and just assumed to be wrong. Like some of the other posters, I'd like to see the prohibited persons list reworked. For instance things like non-violent felonies should probably not be disqualifying. That said, things like the prohibited persons list, NFA, etc, are going to be very long hard fights. Its going to take a lot of money. When you have states where carrying a gun is illegal, and cities where owning a gun is practically illegal, those are going to be easier fights that restoring the rights of non-violent felons. Its also going to generate a wealth of caselaw to support those fights. The important thing is winning. Winning breeds winning. Fighting fights that the NRA is going to lose right now not only drains the bank account, but also generates a heap of caselaw that will be used against the NRA in future fights.

If you want the NRA to address your issues, join and donate. The NRA is a membership organization, and represents its members. You have the power to make your issue the NRAs issue by joining. Your membership and donations help the NRA win, and winning will move the NRA closer to your issues, faster.

jk2008
January 2, 2012, 01:13 PM
There has been a lot of debate in this thread about the effectiveness of the NRA in protecting 2nd Amendment rights here in the US. While the GCA, FOPA, and AWB have infringed upon these rights we still retain many more gun-ownership rights than our peers who live in the UK and Australia, where (as far as I know) they never had their rights codified in their constitutions (like we have with the 2nd Amendment) and where very harsh gun control laws have been enacted within the last 20 years.

I'd like to learn the following from our British or Australian friends:

1) Did an organization analogous to the NRA exist in your country when these laws were being enacted; and, if so, how common was membership among gun owners?
2) Are efforts in work to reverse the anti-gun laws, if so, by whom?
3) Do you have any lessons you learned during the fight to keep your gun-ownership rights that you would want to pass on to the rest of us?

leadcounsel
January 2, 2012, 01:16 PM
I'm sorry, but if you think the NRA is worthless you are out of touch.

How often do pro-2A individuals actually call or write their representatives, and how much weight do individuals have anyway? I venture the answer is rarely and not much.

The NRA is a very powerful lobby group that blocks legislation before it's introduced. They fight in local, state and national arenas. They have blocked a lot of crappy laws.

They were instrumental in key SCOTUS outcomes in Heller and McDonald.

We owe a ton of gratitude to the NRA.

And yes, I donate and am a lifer.

Dazen
January 2, 2012, 01:19 PM
You know I've been a member for 10 years now and still have yet to get these phone calls and spam mail that I hear about from some of you guys.

hso
January 2, 2012, 01:28 PM
more than likely they're working for a fund raising company which it attempting to make money

Nope. I've chatted with a few of them when they called and they were all member volunteers. Now, that limited sample isn't conclusive in determining that the NRA doesn't use a fund raising call-center, but it does put to rest the question of whether the person calling you is likely to hired for the purpose.

jcwit
January 2, 2012, 01:33 PM
You know I've been a member for 10 years now and still have yet to get these phone calls and spam mail that I hear about from some of you guys.

You know, I been a member most of my adult life, and im 68 years old now. Off hand I can't remember ever getting a phone call from the NRA, maybe I have a poor memory or they already know I'm short of funds.

I do get a few mailings from the them, maybe 10 a year at the most. Heck I get more mailings from our local HWI hardware store than that, and the ACE hardware is right behind them.

Wish I had a forum to complain about all their mailings, sure would make me feel better.

Now thinking deeper into the whole problem, just think how many folks we keep employed making all these mailings and all the taxes they pay because they employed.

Such a Deal we have going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jimmyraythomason
January 2, 2012, 01:38 PM
I've been a member since 1973 (had to be sponsored then) and a life member since 1995. The ONLY phone calls I've ever gotten from the NRA during that entire time was to inform me about pending state or local legislation. I get about one piece of mail from them per month. Hardly excessive.

Black Butte
January 2, 2012, 01:57 PM
Obama hasnt done anything bad ...

WRONG! Obama and his administration are actively engaged in pushing the Small Arms Treaty at the United Nations which would negatively impact private gun ownership in the United States, it just isn't covered by the main-stream media outlets. Also, while not yet conclusively proven, odds favor the objective of the botched Fast & Furious gun-running operation was to flood Mexico with illegal guns that could later be blamed on our Second Amendment and used by the current administration as a propaganda tool to push for even more oppressive gun control regulations. Obama also appointed two anti-Second-Amendment Supreme Court justices.

Ryanxia
January 2, 2012, 01:59 PM
I still pay yearly for my membership and have only gotten a few pieces of mail and a monthly e-mail. Even if I got the ocassional phone call I wouldn't mind because it's an organization I belong to.

As many have said the NRA does a lot that we don't see unless we're actively looking. They do a lot on the State level as well.

Master Blaster
January 2, 2012, 02:16 PM
The NRA's most important function and what they devote 98% of their energy to is promoting the shooting sports. This means we have gun clubs to shoot at, competitions to train for and training at all levels in marksmanship, hunting, and firearm safety.
NRA certified instructors run the ranges at Boyscout camps, and at public shooting facilities and private clubs.
Without the NRA's efforts outside of the political arena, there would be far fewer gun owners who care and vote. Second the NRA's political power is not in the lobby aspect, it's in the members and gun owners who are not members being informed about legislation and politician's voting records. The real power is in 4+ million members and their families who do vote.

What exactly have you done to promote the shooting sports?, when have you changed your vote because you were made aware of a political agendaby the NRA? The strength of the NRA is its members and their vote.

19&41
January 2, 2012, 02:22 PM
I am also an annual member. I do so because I believe in the organization and see regularly the results of their efforts. The fact that it costs money doesn't deter me from membership.

chieftain
January 2, 2012, 02:55 PM
I started with the NRA when I began shooting competitively in the late 50's, as a Junior shooter with 22 rifles. We HAD to be members. I am now and have been a life member for a bunch of years too. Right after getting out of the Corps I wanted to be able to vote.

There are a lot of good groups in addition to the NRA that are fighting for our gun rights. Many different approaches, and different emphasis. Support the NRA and as many others as you can and/or agree with.

BUT!!!!!!

No one else also PROMOTES shooting to the public like the NRA. Competition, safety instruction, Law enforcement instruction, youth safety programs etc.... No one else is doing all that nation wide. In fact at times they go international.

I believe to many folks forget everything ELSE the NRA does. I don't like or agree with everything the NRA does either. But I find that true about my family members too.

The NRA is the oldest and largest civil rights organization in the world.

After your organization of choice has the longevity and effectiveness of the NRA, then we will compare notes. I don't like all the mailings either, but I understand.

I am more interested in getting a head of the gun control folks, and staying there. It will never stop, the fight will last as long as we have the republic.

Staying the course, is the answer. Not temper tantrums about technique and methods. Much to much like children in the school yard. Man up, join and work at changing what you don't like.

By the way, I have been a member since the 50's, and have only been called twice. I really don't mind an occasional phone call. It is the price of freedom. A lot less painful than the price I paid for freedom in Vietnam or our troops are paying today in Afghanistan.

Simply amazing. Wah Wah wah.

Go figure.

Fred

brickeyee
January 2, 2012, 03:35 PM
The VAST majority of the money goes to either legal expanses or political campaigns.

Bovine Scatology.

As a tax free entity the NRA is very restricted in what it can do with member dues.

The NRA ILA (Institute for Legislative Action) is the political lobby arm, and it needs to solicited its own money.


I am not a huge fan of the NRA, in large part because there have been times where the NRA's stance has seemed to be more concerned with self perpetuation than with protecting the 2nd.

We only won by 1 vote.

Close enough for you?


Over all I think the ACLU has been far more successful in its impact on protecting a number of civil rights than the NRA has been with protecting the 2nd. IMHO we as gun owners would be far better off supporting the ACLU and molding their agenda to match ours than expecting the NRA to really protect us. If I remember right the ACLU has only about 50k member were the NRA has over 4 mil.

It is a lot easier to get large donations when many members are attorneys.

I would note I know a few who shoot, and they are like a fish out of water with the other attorneys.


Posted by Floorit76
You guys sure do know how to make a guy feel welcome. How many times in this thread has my honesty, if not my intentions, have been questioned? I sure am glad I came here and gave an HONEST account of what happened to ME.

Also by Floorit76
I lost my job 7-8 years ago, and was going to school while trying to get by. The NRA called one night looking for a donation. After I explained my situation, the caller said that even a small donation would be appriciated. I asked how much a "small" donation was. She said that even as LITTLE as $500 would by fine. I hung up, and let my membership lapse.

Since you likely cannot even tell the difference between the ILA soliciting money and the NRA soliciting money, and no one else has ever heard of such a request, your entire account is subject to scrutiny.

JohnBT
January 2, 2012, 05:02 PM
"I got another mailing from the NRA and I was going to toss it. But no, because of you I'm going to send them the $350 to upgrade my membership to Benefactor." - me in post #16

I wrote the check today. JT

Pyzon
January 2, 2012, 05:02 PM
Believe it or not, even as an annual member if you asked to not be bothered by solicitations the solicitations will stop. Haven't had a single one for 5 years since I let my membership lapse because of the constant contacts and junk mail. Then, somebody called asking why I dropped out and after politey hearing me out they promised to stop all contacts if i would renew. Shaazam, no more begging !

Batty67
January 2, 2012, 05:05 PM
I'm an annual member, and besides too many emails, am happy with being a member.

Art Eatman
January 2, 2012, 06:10 PM
Six pages oughta be enough for this go-around; it's not as though it were a new subject. :)

I had a good day going. Slept in, watched football, read some of the new Harry Turtledove "What if...?" book.

Better than messing with contentious threads, for sure. :D

Ala Dan
January 2, 2012, 07:49 PM
"read my signature line"

N003k
January 2, 2012, 07:57 PM
I also want to post that my Fiancee decided on new years day that she wanted to join the NRA. With no prompting from me. I was rather happy and proud, she's now awaiting her membership package.

481
January 2, 2012, 10:57 PM
I'm sorry, but if you think the NRA is worthless you are out of touch.

How often do pro-2A individuals actually call or write their representatives, and how much weight do individuals have anyway? I venture the answer is rarely and not much.

The NRA is a very powerful lobby group that blocks legislation before it's introduced. They fight in local, state and national arenas. They have blocked a lot of crappy laws.

They were instrumental in key SCOTUS outcomes in Heller and McDonald.

We owe a ton of gratitude to the NRA.

And yes, I donate and am a lifer.

The NRA has done us more good than harm and without the NRA we'd have likely suffered the fate of the rest of the international community.

Been a "lifer" for years and while I've been a little remiss in continuing to donate, this thread made me remember why I joined so I got out my checkbook and dropped a donation to the NRA in the mailbox at the corner.

I hope others will remember and dig deep, too. It's worth it. :)

CharlesT
January 2, 2012, 11:19 PM
Hey, thanks I forgot to renew my membership.

willypete
January 3, 2012, 03:34 AM
I'm not a member but I still donate. Like many others, I got fed up with the requests for cash, especially considering that I'm going to college right now.

However, despite my non-membership status, I donate several hours a year to NRA programs. Time can be a lot more valuable than money in some instances, and I'm willing to donate mine when I can. Besides, not like I have a whole lot of spare cash lying about. If I did, I'd buy more ammo with it. :p

I also support a few other firearms-friendly organizations, such as JPFO, Pink Pistols, etc. Just not as much as the NRA.

Just because I don't like some few things that parts of the org do doesn't mean that the whole thing doesn't serve a very important purpose. That's gonna be the case with any large bureaucracy.

Davek1977
January 3, 2012, 03:48 AM
The NRA does a better, more through job of protecting my 2nd Amend rights than any other group. I have supported, and will continue to support, the NRA so long as I value my rights.

TexasBill
January 3, 2012, 04:57 AM
I am an NRA member. I think Wayne LaPierre is sometimes over the top and I disagree with a lot of their propaganda, but I realize that folks don't contribute if everything is peachy-keen.

I support the NRA for the simple reason that no other organization has done so much to promote gun rights, gun safety, and education than the National Rifle Association. I took my NRA hunter safety course 42 years ago. I learned to improve my shooting skills with an NRA instructor. Even without the defense of our gun rights, the NRA conducts worthwhile activities.

Show me another lobbying group that does as much for the American people. Most of them just want money which they plug back into raising more money.

TexasRifleman
January 3, 2012, 10:20 AM
OK, that is the NRA argument thread for January. If tradition holds there will be another one next month so just stick around....

If you enjoyed reading about "NRA worthless?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!