Which 308 precision rifle?


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marksman13
January 1, 2012, 08:25 PM
I've got an LR-308T that I bought as a long range hunting rifle. Bottom line is that it does not like my preferred hunting load. It's probably accurate enough to kill a deer at 300-400 yards, but it's just not accurate enough to meet my standards for a confident shot at 400-500 yards. On top of that it's just a heavy, bulky rifle. I have other hunting rifles, so this is a purpose driven rifle. It will be used strictly in the corn/bean/hay fields that I occasionally hunt.

So, I'm pretty sure I'm going to sell my barely used LR-308 and buy a heavy barreled bolt gun. That should leave me $1000-$1100 to play with. In that price range I'm looking at a Remington 5R or FN-PBR. Anybody have experience with both and want to shed some light on which you prefer.

After-market support is not much of a concern. All I plan on adding is a piece of glass. The most important feature is accuracy. I realize that a new rifle still may not like my hunting load, but it will at least be a leaner, easier rifle to carry.

Thanks in advance.

Steven

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sgtstryker
January 1, 2012, 09:12 PM
Are you really going to sell a decent rifle because it won't accurately shoot one particular load? Is this a handload you have generated? Can you try a 175 gr Match to see how it shoots ? Or at least the 168 gr. Either are great hunting loads,IMO, not much difference in the Matchking and the Gameking. Just a thought. However, to answer your question, I would lean towards the Remington. Are you staying with the .308 ? However you choose, good luck.

langenc
January 1, 2012, 09:16 PM
I expect the Mississippi deer are on the small side. Try some 150 or max 165 gr bullets... remington Core Lokts is a good place to start. Dont go for the max velocity-they are never the most accurate.

sgtstryker
January 1, 2012, 09:24 PM
I bet those Mississippi deer are rather puny, lol..I went heavy to have retained energy at the distance he wanted to hit. Around here I go with the 150 core-lokt, a proven deer killer.

mshootnit
January 1, 2012, 10:10 PM
I thought 5r was a rifling type? If I was going long range it would be the 10FP Savage or the Savage long range hunter 6.5X284
At one time the FN police rifle was chrome lined. Clearly for me it would be more of a novelty and more interesting than a remington.

Also a little more expensive but really cool is (was?) the Cooper phoenix 6.5X284

I would look for a 20 moa base if you want to go really long.

marksman13
January 1, 2012, 10:12 PM
I use a 168 grain Sierra Game King in a handload. It's the only bullet I will use on deer. It's what I like and it has proven itself again and again.

SgtStryker, it's not just the fact that it won't shoot that load. It's that I just don't like the rifle. I've shot several loads through it, both factory and handloads and nothing shoots better than a 1 1/2 inch, 5 shot group at a hundred yards.

That accuracy is acceptable for deer hunting, but with the extra bulk and weight of the LR-308T I would like better accuracy. I'm sure the gun could be tinkered with and made to shoot better, but I don't have the desire to tinker with it.

My personal opinion is that Match Kings are not great hunting loads. I know they will kill deer and have used them before, but the Game King gives much more reliable expansion in my experience.

I am sticking with 308. That's what all my deer rifles are chambered in. I have no qualms with the 308.

sgtstryker
January 1, 2012, 10:16 PM
I understand perfectly. Thanks for the reply. The difference in the two rifles you mentioned is primarily barrel length, if I'm correct. So, on that note I chose the Remington. Good luck in this thing. Wish I had something to trade you...

marksman13
January 1, 2012, 10:18 PM
Mshootnit, I don't have any desire to get into a wildcat cartridge. I really don't plan on shooting at deer past 500 yards. The 308 will do all I need it to do.

I'm not really sure about the Savages. Remington makes a model 700 called a 5R. I know it's a kind of rifling, but I thought that Remington was marketing a copy of the Army's M24 that they named the 5R. I could be completely wrong.

mshootnit
January 1, 2012, 10:38 PM
I thought 6.5X284 was a factory load. My boss has one and the round looks pretty cool. 308 is good too. I am more of an old school and I like 30-06 too. Never underestimate a Mod. 70 super grade in 30-06. I had a relative that would take a 30-06, sight 4 inches high at 100 yds and kill deer out around 450 yds. He also fought all the way across France so I am guessing he had some practice. (and owned his own ranch)
SAVAGE accuracy:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d14/rizbunk77/riz2/target-1.jpg

marksman13
January 1, 2012, 10:59 PM
I don't doubt that Savages are accurate. I've owned several Savage rimfires including a 17 HMR that would out shoot anything in it's class. I know it's subjective I just think Savages are ugly and the last few I handled felt kind of...cheap.

The 6.5x284 may be a factory load, but I've never seen a box of ammo on a shelf.

I don't intend to rag on Savage rifles. I like them. I just don't know if I'm willing to drop a thousand dollars on one yet.

I guess I could/should feel the same way about the FN. I've never shot one before.

SgtStryker, the Remington Model 700 Mil-Spec 5R is a semi custom gun. Not listed in their catalog and produced in relatively small numbers. I had to google it.

PowerG
January 1, 2012, 11:07 PM
No experience with the PBR but the 5R is an excellent choice for what you're going to do with it.

marksman13
January 1, 2012, 11:20 PM
PowerG, I honestly think that is the direction I'm leaning in. I've shot a buddy's 5R and liked it.

PowerG
January 1, 2012, 11:41 PM
A friend of a friend owns one, I've went down there and shot with them a few times and the rifle is impressive. As I understand it they are somewhat hard to come by.

arizona98tj
January 1, 2012, 11:58 PM
If you say Savage is ugly, so be it. I didn't buy mine to make love to it. :eek:

That being said, it shoots (http://www.stu-offroad.com/firearms/karsten/karsten-6.jpg)....and better than I do.

During load workup.....
http://www.stu-offroad.com/temp/savage-6.jpg

At my precision rifle course last month....
http://www.stu-offroad.com/firearms/fs-pr1/fs-pr1-4.jpg

I took the factory rifle, added a cheek piece and installed my optic. I can't ask much more from a factory rifle.

mfcmb
January 2, 2012, 12:10 AM
FYI, here's the Sniper Central review of the Remington 5R:

http://www.snipercentral.com/milspec5r.phtml

DRYHUMOR
January 2, 2012, 07:00 AM
I've had 2 5R 700s through the years. Both shot well. I've also had 2 PSS rifles that shot just as well. I tended to like the PSS rifles more- black and 26", vice stainless and 24". I had one 5R when they were "batching" them a few a year; that I had to fully relieve the barrel channel to float the barrel. Remington QA at it's best.... kind of pissed me off.

Depending on when made, some of them have the older trigger, some the Xmark trigger. User preference on that. I've changed out the factory triggers for Rifle Basix triggers, on one PSS and another LTR in 223. Good triggers for the money.

You mentioned the PBR, you may also want to look into a pre FN Stealth in 308. The new ones have the MOA trigger, which I've never pulled, so I cannot comment on it. Though the new ones do have the claw extractor, which is nice. The older M70's and I believe the PBR/SPR lines are still using the old style M70 trigger. Brownells has an Austrian made M70 set trigger on sale for a smokin hot price.

I've seen some M700 LTRs with 40X triggers on GB lately, yet another option. If I wasn't 308 poor, I prob would have already bought one.

MistWolf
January 2, 2012, 08:04 AM
You don't need a heavy barrel profile to shoot deer at 500 yards. A good sporter weight- heck, even a lightweight- barrel will do just fine. The barrel may not hold a sub-moa group past 5 shots but cold bore accuracy will be consistent and even as it heats up, accuracy will be good for humane shots on deer. I have made plenty of hits on jackrabbits out past 300 yards using rifles with sporter weight and lightweight barrels. No reason to carry a 10-12 lbs rifle when a 7-8 lbs rifle will do the job just as well

marksman13
January 2, 2012, 10:38 AM
Mistwolf, I realize that I don't need a heavy barrel for those shots. I've got a semi custom Browning A-Bolt with the standard pencil barrel that will shoot with any rifle out there for three shots.

This rifle will be a deer rifle, but I'd also like to use it to shoot a friendly match once in a while.

johnmcl
January 2, 2012, 12:01 PM
Steven,

You will find there's a number of production guns in bolt actions that are serious enough for that minute of deer accuracy at 500 yards. This really is the golden age of production rifles. I believe today's out of the box guns are what people sent rifles in to gunsmiths for 20 years ago.

Now that said, minute of deer accuracy at 500 yards is some serious shooting. You're on a bipod with rear rests, serious glass, a trusted load, a rangefinder, and hours of practice behind you. At that distance, a deer shot is as much due to the rifleman as anything. You can do it, but please be as serious on getting ready as anything in your life. That 500 yard shot is well, well beyond accepted standards for deer hunting.

On your thoughts on an R5, I have one. I find it to be as serious a production rifle as anything that's out there. I like the weight and the stock a lot. HS did their homework. I replaced the bottom metal with a detachable magazine. I could not reload as fast or as reliably as I wanted.

The R5 is no Accuracy International, but then its not meant to be. As I said, it is a serious production rifle, one of many.

Good luck on this project, and keep us updated.

marksman13
January 2, 2012, 12:14 PM
John, the distance is not a problem. This isn't my first rodeo. I've killed several deer past the 400 yard mark.

I agree with you that this is the golden age for production rifles. That's part of what is making this so difficult. There are several rifles in the thousand dollar range that shoot very well. It's hard to know which direction to go.

The other issue is that most local stores don't carry precision/tactical style bolt guns. Or they don't have them in stock anyway, so it's hard to get a feel for which one I like best.

dprice3844444
January 2, 2012, 12:20 PM
dealing with some rifles are like dealing with women.sometimes
you just need to keep trying different manufacturers/loads to see which the old girl spits out better.
http://www.teludynetech.com/home-hunting/

have you tried the federal premium?me personally,if i was me , i would find what works best of the factory available ammo 1st.then,if i wanted to possibly improve,handload.
by doing it this way,should i run out of handlads ona hunt,or lose the ammo somehow,i can purchase locally and be sure of it's accuracy ability in the weapon.
http://www.snipercountrypx.com/p-499-remington-700-ss-5r-milspec-308-with-5r-m24-type-rifling.aspx

velvethunter
January 2, 2012, 03:39 PM
I have a 5R and it is riduculously accurate with factory Federal GMM 168's. It shoots most other loads well too, but I thought the fact that the 5R had a slightly faster twist would mean it would tend to like the heavier 175's and up. It shoots those just fine(about 3/4" at 100), but the 168's I can consistently get under .5" for 5 shots on a calm day. And this is a 5R with no mods other than lightening up the trigger to ~3lbs.

War Eagle
January 4, 2012, 10:03 AM
I compete, in F-Class, with this 5-R (http://gunzoo.com/vault/Mac/75). I handload my bullets (175gr SMK, Lapua Brass, Fed Match Primers, 43 grains of Varget, 2700fps) and I can out shoot most guys on the line. I'd buy the 5-R and not look back.


...

kludge
January 4, 2012, 11:43 AM
Bottom line is that it does not like my preferred hunting load. It's probably accurate enough to kill a deer at 300-400 yards, but it's just not accurate enough to meet my standards for a confident shot at 400-500 yards. On top of that it's just a heavy, bulky rifle. I have other hunting rifles, so this is a purpose driven rifle. It will be used strictly in the corn/bean/hay fields that I occasionally hunt.



Just one man's opinion...

A) Most hunters shouldn't be attempting shots on deer past 300 yards... a lot more of them shouldn't be attempting shots past 400 yards.

B) However if you are one of those people who is good enough... handload... BUT I don't think the .308 Win as a cartridge is up to snuff for hunting deer past 400 yards. I'd go with a 7mm WSM, .270 WSM, 7mm RM.

C) I with you on the heavy part. Check out the Savage Long Range Hunter.

jmr40
January 4, 2012, 03:46 PM
I have the FN. I think in terms of pure accuracy the Remington will probably be a little better, but either rifle is better than I am. I just wanted something different from everyone else's Remington or Savage.

Either will be a lot heavier than I'd want to hunt with. I only use the 10+ lb FN at the range. For hunting my Kimber in 308 weighs under 6 lbs including a scope and mounts. It shoots 1/2" 100 yard groups and I'd have no problem taking a 300-400 yard shot using it. If you are going to hunt with it, buy a hunting rifle.

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