Problems with new 1911


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ArthurDent
January 2, 2012, 01:26 AM
Hello all

I need some help! Any advice from 1911 experts would be appreciated. Please reply.

Last month I bought my first 1911. It is gorgeous! :-)

It is a Sprinfield "Loaded" Model PI9132LP. Here are some links for this model:http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=24, http://www.springfield-armory.com/assets/pdf/SPRINGFIELD_Book_armory_PI9132LP.pdf

I finally got to the range today, and immediately had problems with it. It did not make it through the first two magazines before I stopped and put it away.

The gun fired and had reasonable groups, but it did not cycle properly. I had 3 or 4 malfunctions in the first 12 rounds. A couple of times the slide would be blocked open by the spent casing. These were not stovepipes... the casing was still aligned with the bore, and the mouth of the casing was resting on the chamber. A couple of times the slide either didn't cycle, or else the brass didn't eject and the empty casing was re-chambered. In all cases, the brass (when I could find it) was exceedingly dirty on the outside, and the mouth seemed to have had a shiny edge rubbed into a ring around the edge, about 1mm wide.

I was using Winchester white box.

After I got home I did a field strip and ran across an interesting effect. Can some of you tell me if this is normal? (Sorry, I don't know... its my first 1911.) I took out the barrel and bushing and slide spring and guides and all. I just put the naked slide on the frame. It slid beautifully and freely up until it got to the sear disconnector. That seemed to block the slide, and it was about as hard to push past that as it was to cock the hammer with the slide... maybe harder. It is hard to move the slide in either direction. I tried testing the normal 1911 feature that If you have dropped the hammer and hold the trigger in while you cycle the slide it should hold the sear disconnector down inside the frame. This function does work on this pistol, but even with the disconnector held mostly inside the frame it is still very hard to move the slide over it. I'm wondering if this might have blocked the slide and prevented or slowed normal cycling.

Other than that, everything looks pristine. I don't have any snap-caps to play with chambering and cycling, and I'm not about to test it with live rounds. But the extractor and ejector look fine at first glance. Also, the slide spring seems awfully stiff, but I'm comparing it to smaller caliber guns so it might be just right for the 1911.

Here's a little more background information that probably has nothing to do with this problem, but I'll throw it in anyway. This gun was not "new" when I bought it, but it sure looked that way. I bought it from a local dealer who specializes in estate sales and downsizings. He seems like a standup guy. This gun had all the features I had been wanting, and I had not seen this model elsewhere. The 1911 looked brand new... never fired. The dealer said he suspected it had been bought and put away in the safe and never used. Before I took it to the range, I did a field strip and lubed everything well with Rem oil. I did not take apart anything on the frame. While I was doing the initial cleanup I did notice some dirt on the breach face that indicated it had been shot, at least at the factory. There was an outline of the base of a round, and a light ring around where the primer would have been. Other than that, the whole gun looked brand new.

If you're still with me, thanks for reading! I'd appreciate any help you all can offer.

ArthurDent

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918v
January 2, 2012, 01:45 AM
Is the gun all original? Could be the mag. Could be the extractor. Could be the recoil spring. Could be the slide stop. Does the gun feed rounds from the magazine when you hand cycle the slide? Does it eject them? Do the bullet noses hit the slide stop on the way into the chamber? Remove the slide- can you slip a round under the extractor easily? Remove the recoil spring, reasemble the gun, dry cycle it- does it hang up anywhere as the barrel locks/unlocks?

WWB is dirty, that's normal.

ckone
January 2, 2012, 01:48 AM
Almost sounds like one of the sear spring's legs are caught under the disconnector or something with the fire-control not being installed correctly...?

If you're familiar with 1911's, I'd detail strip it and then reassemble it to make sure it's right, or get someone who knows how to do it take it down and then reassemble it to be sure it's put together correctly, and I'd have them show you how to do it too so you'll know how, they're simpler than you may think...

Until you verify that the fire control is correct, looking at the extractor or recoil-spring is kind of pointless as they won't be doing or showing you what they're supposed to be doing if they're fighting a stuck disconnector (though most factory guns come over-sprung from the factory, going a few pounds lighter will only usually make it run better, ignore those who mention frame-battering as it's mostly an internet myth as I've seen dozens of excellent USPSA shooters with guns that have zinged 20,000+ rds through them using 14lb recoil-springs without the slightest sign of it).

Good luck.

Skylerbone
January 2, 2012, 02:11 AM
Concentrating on what is known, that spent brass is not being ejected consistently, I'd recommend first ordering a new 14 lb. recoil spring so you know what's in there and check extractor tension. If that does not work I'd consider checking the chamber to insure it isn't too tight.

Don't touch that disconnector, at this stage it's above your pay grade. Good luck and enjoy that Springer.

ckone
January 2, 2012, 02:24 AM
Oh, wanted to add: pretty sure those Springfields have an Intrnal-Locking-System built into their main-spring housings... if yours has one, I'd make sure that sucker is 100% disengaged as that might muck up an otherwise "mechanically sound" 1911.

Magnumite
January 2, 2012, 02:28 AM
Seems like an extractor issue. Typically brass left in the gun like that is the extractor not maintaining control of it back through ejector striking event. The lower round is pushing case up off the extractor because of insufficient tension.

Take the pistol to the range. Load up a mag, insert it in the pistol, then remove it. Shoot the pistol. Monitor the brass ejection with your periphial vision. It should be tossed out about 3-6 feet. Run a couple mags through it like this. If it dribbles out or falls through the mag well, then your extractor needs tensioning (and maybe tuning). You can remove the slide from the frame and insert a loaded round into the breech of the slide. It should remain there given a nice nonviolent shake. It won't if its dropping case through the mag well when shooting as described above.

What you are feeling with the disconnector on the slide is normal. It wouldn't cause a problem unless it is completely flat on top, with is highly unlikely. If you installed a stronger than stock mainspring you could be causing the pistol to short stroke, i.e. not cycle completely back. This would cause the malfunctions you are experiencing. So would underpowered ammo, though I haven't experience that with WWB.

ckone
January 2, 2012, 02:32 AM
Don't touch that disconnector, at this stage it's above your pay grade.

Ridiculous, I cannot agree. In the age of YouTube and Google, or resources like Brownell's "Gun Tech" videos out there, most anything assembly/reassembly-wise on a 1911 short of cutting a sear or recutting hammer-hooks or building one from the ground up from a raw frame/slide/barrel is very do-able for someone who's fairly bright and mechanically inclined.

Skylerbone
January 2, 2012, 08:45 AM
Playing with fire control parts is dangerous and is not part of the solution here. If YouTube dispensed worthwhile advice, wisdom and ability I'd wager no one would be typing here but as it does not I vote for safety.

The factory mainspring weight for a Springfield with the ILS is (depending on source used) 28 or 30 lbs. Unlikely anyone opted to change it out with a heavier one but used can come with stranger alterations than that.

ApacheCoTodd
January 2, 2012, 08:59 AM
I would suggest before you go messin' about with the hard parts that you give another ammo and a different shooter or two a shot at it first.

Not poohin' on any of the above suggestions, just saying: new gun, one type of ammo (WWB at that) and a single shooter. I've never had a semi auto anything that I did not anticipate break in functioning issues relative to the firearm, ammo and myself.

Fleet
January 2, 2012, 09:05 AM
It sounds to me like it's being limp wristed.

ApacheCoTodd
January 2, 2012, 09:33 AM
It sounds to me like it's being limp wristed.
That was just one of the bushes I was beating around myself. Point being - don't go dickin with it till you remove a couple of variables first.

rellascout
January 2, 2012, 10:13 AM
Don't be a bubba.... LOL. If you do not know what you are doing messing around with the fire controls of any gun is not smart IMHO. YMMV It has been my experience that when you are having feeding issues in a 1911 the first 2 places you go are the mags and the extractor.

First what mags are you using? I suggest using Chip Mcmormick Power mags, Metalform, Checkmate, Wilson or Tripp Research. The key is to test your gun with a mag that is known to to be 100% in a functioning 1911.

You said the extractor looks ok but did you test the tension? Here is a good video from Wilson on how to check it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_ybp51lx6w

Here is a detailed write-up http://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm

This is easy to do and you are not in any danger of buggering the pistol . If you feel that you understand the concepts of how the extractor works if it is incorrectly tensioned you can adjust it accordingly.

Next step is to have an experienced 1911 shooter shoot a couple of rounds with the WWB and another ammo brand like RWS to see if it could have been shooter error.

If you have stoppages take pics. Cell phone are perfect for this. Post those pics here and people like 1911tuner will be able to tell you what is going on.

Now if all of these check out call SA and send it back to them. They will fix it even if you are not the original owner and as long as there are no aftermarket parts or mods causing the issues.

moxie
January 2, 2012, 10:19 AM
Ditto what Fleet said!

Last range trip I let a guy shoot my Commander, which is 100% reliable with me shooting it. Wouldn't shoot two rounds in a row. Jams like the OP described. Figured he was limp-wristing. I took it and it shot just fine. That would be my first guess. Try a firm two-handed hold and see what happens. Also check to see, with the muzzle pointed downrange of course, that it will feed and eject several rounds in a row, just manually cycling the slide. If it won't cycle and won't shoot with a firm grip go to a gunsmith. You will save money in the long run, IMHO.

xx78
January 2, 2012, 10:29 AM
If the 1911 is brand new I would field strip it, clean, and lube the pistol. Then take it to the range and shoot at least 100 rounds through it. If the pistol still malfunctions then find the problem and repair. A few of my 1911s did the same thing until it broke in.

WC145
January 2, 2012, 10:36 AM
That was just one of the bushes I was beating around myself. Point being - don't go dickin with it till you remove a couple of variables first.
+1!

Magnumite
January 2, 2012, 10:41 AM
A model such as the SA Loaded shouldn't be magazine sensitive. It should feed with virtually any good magazine. If it doesn't, then there is a gun problem. Also, feeding is not an issue here, extraction/ejection is.

ArthurDent
January 2, 2012, 10:43 AM
Thank you!

Good advice, one and all. (Even when the advice differs, I see the merits of both sides.)

The first thing I need to do is get some snap caps in 45 to try these experiments. I also remembered a friend who had offered to help me build a 1911 from pieces/parts. It might have been a little cheaper and more fun, but then I wouldn't have this lovely Springfield. I need to get with this friend and compare differences with his 1911s

It was a personal goal of mine to buy a copy of this masterpiece by Saint John Moses Browning during its 100th anniversary year. Springfields are one of my very favorite makers of this model. 2011 was one of the worst years of my life, but at least I got the 1911. :)
Don't touch that disconnector, at this stage it's above your pay grade.I have studied the 1911 for a couple of years now and I think I have some understanding and can give a basic explanation of every part of it, including the fire control section. However, there is always a lot more to learn! Also, I do know to never do any work on the trigger section myself! If any gun needed that kind of work I know of a good gun smith. So I do realize that there is stuff here that is well over my pay grade, even though I may think I understand it.

918v: as far as I can tell, the gun was un-shot and un-modified, just as it came from the factory. I even have the shipping ticket.
ckone: yes, it does have the integral locking system on the main spring. It's the one feature I don't like. I should look into that, even though I didn't notice a problem with primer ignition.
What you are feeling with the disconnector on the slide is normal. It wouldn't cause a problem unless it is completely flat on top, with is highly unlikely. If you installed a stronger than stock mainspring you could be causing the pistol to short stroke, i.e. not cycle completely back. This would cause the malfunctions you are experiencing. So would underpowered ammo, though I haven't experience that with WWB.Thank you for that! The disconnector holds back the slide more than anything I've felt on any other gun, but it does have the proper, two-sided "wedge" shape on the part that sticks out.

ApacheCoTodd / Fleet: I like the idea of getting a different shooter and ammo. I've seen plenty of strange things happen here. I doubt I'm limp wristing, but it is possible. This was slow, deliberate fire, two-handed, and my fore-arms were rested on a bench with my wrists locked. I normally have absolutely no problems with limp wristing and I've shot 1911s before. However, the springs on this gun are a LOT stronger than what I was expecting.

rellascout: Heh! I definitely do NOT want to be a bubba on this! One time I helped Mom buy a used Seecamp from a reputable dealer that had been "bubba-ed" so badly it had to go back to the factory. Both the shop and I missed it until I took it apart after the failures on the first range trip. The insides were hideous! Larry Seecamp and company fixed it right up. I can't say enough good things about them!

The magazines that came with the gun do not seem first rate. I knew this going in, and other folks on teh interwebz have commented about it.

Since Magnumite said the disconnector sounds normal, I'm thinking the extractor should be my main focus. I'll try your experiments.

Thanks again! :)

I'm still listening...

rellascout
January 2, 2012, 10:48 AM
However, the springs on this gun are a LOT stronger than what I was expecting.


This statement sort of jumps out at me. Are you referring to the recoil spring? It is heavier, harder to rack the slide, than other 1911s you have shot?

Could the original owner have swapped the recoil spring for a heavier one?

1911Tuner
January 2, 2012, 10:54 AM
I just put the naked slide on the frame. It slid beautifully and freely up until it got to the sear disconnector. That seemed to block the slide, and it was about as hard to push past that as it was to cock the hammer with the slide... maybe harder.

Reassemble the gun and hand-cycle it again...this time with the trigger pulled and held.

Is the slide harder to move than with the trigger not pulled?

If it is, it sounds like the center leg of the sear spring is bearing on the disconnect at a lower point than it should. Check the center leg for a slight kink about 1/8th inch from the top. Also look at the disconnect where the leg bears on it to see if it looks "dished."

ArthurDent
January 2, 2012, 10:57 AM
Yes, I was talking about the recoil / slide spring. It is a lot stronger than those on the polymer frames I've been messing with. I have no problems at all with any of the polymer frames I've played with, but this slide is so stiff that I almost have a hard time racking it.

It has been a while since I've shot a 1911, though, so perhaps their springs are stronger than I remembered.

The main / hammer spring is also strong, but I expected that.

1911Tuner
January 2, 2012, 11:00 AM
Arthur...See the above post.

Another indication of the sear spring binding up the disconnect is easing the slide forward with the trigger held back until it touches the disconnect...then releasing it. If the disconnect holds the slide until you release the trigger...that may be your bug.

ArthurDent
January 2, 2012, 11:18 AM
1911Tuner, Thank you for the detailed information! I'll check on that as soon as I can get to the gun. :)

ckone
January 2, 2012, 11:31 AM
I think 1911tuner and I are thinking the same thing, what it sounds like the OP is describing when he says: "I just put the naked slide on the frame. It slid beautifully and freely up until it got to the sear disconnector. That seemed to block the slide, and it was about as hard to push past that as it was to cock the hammer with the slide... maybe harder." - is the disconnector getting bound up by the sear spring pushing under it's base rather than resting against it's base as it's supposed to, this happens from time to time when guys reinstall either the mainspring-housing and/or grip safety and accidentally bump the sear spring out of position.

Earlier when I said that most things on a 1911 can be tackled through using resources on the internet like YouTube, Google, and Brownell's "Gun Tech" vids, I was in no way advocating having novices poke around and dinking around with fire-control parts in any way that could be potentially dangerous (and if you re-read my post I think it's pretty clear), at no time was I talking about introducing files, stones, sandpaper or anything else, never once mentioned changing anything other than simply tearing the gun down and then putting it back together... Now, with that said, this notion out there that disassembly/reassembly is only to be handled by a qualified gunsmith is complete hogwash, 1911's are about as simple as it gets, only a Glock is simpler, and every 1911 owner can and should know how to take his or her gun down soup-to-nuts and put it back together without a problem Acting like understanding the inner workings of a 1911 is some hard to attain power that a novice's feeble mind cannot handle is just dumb, and acting like all gunsmithing tasks are a form of rocket science left only to the clinically trained is equally so.

Firearms are relatively simple devices, but of course they can be dangerous, so if one doesn't know how to correctly safety and function check a firearm to see that it's 100% operational and safe before loading up live ammo, than they shouldn't mess with it, period. But what's also true is the simple fact that when it comes to firearms, most of the crowd who will strongly advocate staying away from any form of detail stripping are just saying so as they do not know how to do it themselves, period.

red rick
January 2, 2012, 11:36 AM
It's a Springfield ( lifetime warranty ) send it to them.

rellascout
January 2, 2012, 11:41 AM
Firearms are relatively simple devices, but of course they can be dangerous, so if one doesn't know how to correctly safety and function check a firearm to see that it's 100% operational and safe before loading up live ammo, than they shouldn't mess with it, period. But what's also true is the simple fact that when it comes to firearms, most of the crowd who will strongly advocate staying away from any form of detail stripping are just saying so as they do not know how to do it themselves, period.

I completely disagree with you. Think about the number of firearms sold in this country. Over 16 million were sold in 2011 alone. I am willing to bet that less than 25% of those guns will ever be detailed stripped by their owners. the vast majority of gun owners would not know where to begin. On 1911s tons of people have trouble field stripping the pistol without marking the frame.

I know how to detail strip my pistols but I do not tinker with them. I can diagnose minor isues with the help of people like 1911Tuner but I still advocate someone who just picked up the 1911 to be very cautious about what they are doing. More 1911s are buggered by kitchen table bubbas than any other platform because people claim they are so simple and anyone can work on them.

I think the OP is getting good advice and hopefully he will be able to fix the issue or back to SA it will go.

wford
January 2, 2012, 01:27 PM
It could be many problems so I would just send it back to the manufacturer if your problems continue.

ArthurDent
January 2, 2012, 11:16 PM
I tried rellascout's extractor test... no problems... flying colors.

per ckone, I looked at the ILS... seems fine.

I tried 1911Tuner's test. Now things get interesting... The answer seems to be "maybe," and more investigation is required.

With the trigger held, I ease the slide forward and rest it on the disconnector. As I slowly release my hold on the slide, the disconnector holds the slide back as long as I am barely holding the slide. When I let go completely it slams forward. With the trigger released, it doesn't hold back much.

The slide moves more freely with the trigger released than when it is held.

Also, if I lock the slide back, hold in the trigger, manually push the disconnector down completely into the body and then unlock the slide, it moves much more freely.

The tip of the disconnector is already starting to show some wear on one side from my exercising of the slide.

I can't get to my punches right now, so I can't take down the frame to look at the leaf spring. Maybe I'll buy another set.

Also, I still don't have snap caps to test cycling. I'm not about to risk cycling live rounds in my quiet neigborhood. I'll try to pick those up tomorrow.

I'm definitely not planning to "Bubba" the gun, but I'd like to have some idea of a diagnosis before i seek professional help.

Thanks for the excellent guidance!

Skylerbone
January 3, 2012, 12:01 AM
Ck, editing what you said won't change what you said. What I said was directed to the OP who stated it was his first 1911 and he was not very familiar with it. I did not tell him to avoid a detailed strip due to the magical prowess needed to reassemble.

Suggesting that was my aim is poor form, even poorer is suggesting I do so because I lack the ability to strip one myself.

ArthurDent
January 3, 2012, 12:19 AM
Hey... Both of you... play nice! :)

It's hard to convey subtle shades of meaning even under the best of circumstances. There's a big difference between a detailed strip and taking a power drill to your receiver. The key is to know your limitations, but that doesn't always come across in print.

Both points are well taken... look on eweTube on teh interwebz for information, but also be careful not to get in over your head.

And as always, we all should know to leave trigger changes to the professionals.

1911Tuner
January 3, 2012, 08:01 AM
Since you can manually push the disconnect down into the frame with the trigger pulled, you probably don't have a problem with the sear spring or the reset angle on the back of the disconnect being worn. Now it's time to look at the head of the disconnect. How far above the frame does it protrude? Does the angle need to be a little less steep in order to let the slide cam it down easier?

This is where the mystical, magical stuff becomes an issue. Removing material from the top of the disconnect generally leads to other problems. Changing the angle should be carefully done, and the disconnect should be constantly checked for proper function.

You should also be aware of the possibility that it can't be altered enough without causing it to malfunction...and you'll need to get another disconnect and start over. Then, you may discover that no within-spec disconnect will work, and that the problem is with the sear pin hole location...which means a bad frame.

All this requires that you know what to look for as you check the disconnect for function.

And...even if you get it right, you may find that it's not the source of your other problems. It may not be the source of any of them.

ArthurDent
January 3, 2012, 10:05 AM
1911Tuner,

Thank you for your reply!

I think I understand everything you say here. It is starting to sound like this is massively "over my pay grade," and that I am likely to end up sending it to Springfield to get it fixed.

It is also starting to seem like my $1000 homage to Browning's masterpiece might end up being "stupid tax."

Still, I'd like to understand the problem, 'cause learning about this stuff is most of the fun for me.

I'd be willing to drop in some high-quality replacement parts and smooth off some rough edges in non-critical regions. I'd never try to reshape a sear or shave any metal in the trigger section. Even if it was done right, doing that would certainly cause tremendous legal problems in a carry gun. I plan for this to be only a range gun, but I'd still leave the trigger up to someone else.

I suspect that if the gun was made with looser tolerances that none of this would be a problem. The thing is virtually water tight. It is a work of art, but right now it doesn't work. :(

The disconnect seems to be in exactly the right place, as nearly as I can tell. It is activated at just the right place to prevent out-of-battery firing.

The disconnect does not stick up much. I need to get out my calipers to measure it, but I'd guess it sticks up about 0.07" in the resting position, and no more than 0.02" when pressed in by the slide. However, the part of the slide that interfaces with the frame is tight, and you can barely see light through the gap. I don't know what to call this part of the slide. I'd guess that there is about 0.005" gap between this part and the frame. (All numbers +/- 10.000" 'cause I'm guessing! ;) I'll post updates when I have actual measurements.)

As far as angles... those look fine but I don't know how to tell.

Some metal is naturally being worn away by cycling parts, and maybe it does just need to be "broken in."

And, as you say, maybe the problem is somewhere else entirely.

I'd still like to try better ammo and a different shooter or two before I send it back.

Thanks again!

ArthurDent
January 8, 2012, 12:12 AM
Hey all, Here's a quick update.

I met with a buddy who's quite good with 1911's. He thinks that the disconnect is just fine, thank you.

He thinks the problem is with the extractor. He suggested ordering a new extractor from Brownells. He also suggested some polishing that I could do on the extractor after I had a replacement part in hand. I had noticed that there seemed to be an excessive gap between the breech face and the extractor hook, and he confirmed that this gap was larger than normal.

I bought snap caps and a spare magazine. Playing with those, my friend was able to exactly duplicate the feeding problem by "slow cycling" the slide. He said the problems were due to the extractor not working well enough.

He also suggested that I might be limp wristing. Hmmm...

I couldn't make it to the range to try out anything (it's an hour away :( ) but I'll get parts and go soon.

Thanks again for the help! :)

ArthurDent
January 14, 2012, 10:30 PM
I bought a new extractor, smoothed the edges a bit, adjusted the tension as best as I could, and put it in.

Made a range trip today with my 1911 buddy.

More ejection failures. :(

It failed for everyone. Friend looked at things closely and decided that the frame-to-slide interface was not good, and that it was binding over the magazine well. Whatever was binding things, it got worse as the gun got warmer. He suggested a little lapping compound to let the slide move more freely.

He also said that he thought the gun was not nearly so new as the dealer and I thought it looked. He thought someone had run several boxes of ammo through the gun before I got it and had actually tried to tune it and failed. I couldn't see the signs, but he knows a lot more about this than I do.

Since I doubt the dealer would take it back at this point, I'm down to two courses of action:
1) try the lapping compound. If that doesn't work, send it back to Springfield.
2) skip the hassle and go straight to Springfield.

I wanna LEARN, but I don't want to mess the gun up any worse than it already is.

Oh... about limp wristing... I ran several magazines through his 1911s, even one-handed, without any problems. Its still possible, but he thought my form was fine.

Thanks,

ArthurDent

P.S. I'm beginning to wonder if this wasn't "a gun too far." I'm not sure what the lesson is here, but there's got to be one. I just wanted a nice 1911, dammit! :(

1911Tuner
January 15, 2012, 05:40 AM
If the slide is making full travel, it sounds like your extractor isn't releasing the case. It may be too long from the tensioning wall to the tip of the claw. I like to see about .035 inch, with the top and bottom corners lightly radiused.

red rick
January 15, 2012, 09:14 AM
I would have called Springfield CS before I changed anything.

Springfield is known for a good warranty, you might have voided it.

Good luck.

WC145
January 15, 2012, 02:54 PM
Springfield will fix your gun under warranty, if you let them.

conhntr
January 15, 2012, 04:55 PM
Ya id send it back to brazil so "springfield" can fix it

Striker Fired
January 15, 2012, 06:12 PM
Yet Another reason why I never buy used, unless it is so cheap that anything that can go wrong will still be covered.Way to many people (Gun shops also/especially?) don't even hesitate to pawn something defective on the next,even though they could have sent it in under warrantee.
Unfortunatly for the OP,many things can't be known defective by sight,it has to be found out after the fact.Sorry to the op for getting this issue and it sounds like the person that had it before him did more to "void" warrantee than him.Either way,Springfield has a good rep for fixing stuff under warantee even with mods.
Good luck and I probably wouldn't go back to that dealer any time soon.

WC145
January 15, 2012, 06:26 PM
Ya id send it back to brazil so "springfield" can fix it
Springfield warranty repairs are taken care of here in the States.

ArthurDent
January 15, 2012, 07:27 PM
I don't think I've done anything that should void any warranties, but I can't speak for the previous owner. The 1911 is made to be detail stripped and reassembled. I have swapped the extractor, but I can put the original one back in and it is no different than if I had only done a detailed cleaning.

I haven't done any filing or polishing at all... just shot it a few times and cleaned it.

I think it might be a warranty problem if I were to start polishing the rails, so I'm leaning strongly towards just sending it back. (But not if it's gotta leave the country!)

If this were a beater then I'd be trying lots of things, but I'd rather not mess up something this expensive.

1911tuner, my 1911 buddy is pretty sure that the slide is so tight that it is not making a full cycle. He thinks that the slide is never making it far enough back for the casing to hit the ejector. If you hand cycle it only part of the way you can duplicate the problem. If you hand cycle it all the way then feeding and ejection work perfectly. This is why I made my original conjecture about the disconnect... the slide is awfully tight. The other 1911s I've checked recently are much easier to cycle.

Thanks again for the help!

ArthurDent
January 15, 2012, 07:39 PM
Yet Another reason why I never buy used...It is definitely something to consider.
Good luck and I probably wouldn't go back to that dealer any time soon.I have a favorite dealer, but he's about an hour from here. Just about everything I have was bought new from this favorite dealer.

The shop where I bought this 1911 is a lot closer to home and work. I was just window shopping there... and they had this one gun... and it had everything I wanted... and... ;)

1911Tuner
January 15, 2012, 07:42 PM
Here's whatcha do, Arthur. Buy a 2-ounce tub of J&B Bore Cleaner and a small bottle of CLP Breakfree. Both are good products to use for other things as well...so it won't be money wasted.

Mix a little of the bore cleaner with oil until you get a soupy paste that just starts to sag off the tip of a screwdriver, but doesn't drip. Let it stand open overnight. Stir thoroughly and apply liberally to the rails. Wipe off the excess and hand-cycle it 50 times without the spring or barrel. Wipe the rails...reapply...and repeat another 50 cycles.

Clean, oil, and assemble the gun. The tight spot should be gone, and the slide should move like it's on buttered glass.

Test fire.

DRYHUMOR
January 15, 2012, 07:51 PM
^ +1

I would run it somewhat wet for awhile also, with something a bit better than "Rem oil". Try some FP-10 or Militec.

ArthurDent
January 16, 2012, 01:03 AM
Here's whatcha do...This is basically what my buddy wants to do, except he suggested using lapping compound. Do you think it would void the warranty to try this before sending it back?

I've already got a bunch of CLP... it's what I normally use to clean 'em.

The more I study this stuff, the more I feel like I need to learn how to work in a machine shop. Physics theory and equations are fun but there's just something to be said for the kind of brains you grow from getting your hands dirty.

1911Tuner
January 16, 2012, 04:39 AM
Do NOT use lapping compound. Use the J&B and the oil. Before J&B hit the markets, we used 606S Du Pont polishing compound.

Skylerbone
January 16, 2012, 11:08 AM
Have a look at your brass and let us know if it's dented from the hook of the extractor pushing it forward. You may simply need a shim to adjust the extractor length.

What lapping compound does that JB does not is embed itself into the metal and continue lapping long after you thought you wiped it off. I don't hold that lapping will solve the problem but it won't hurt it either.

Greg528iT
January 16, 2012, 01:19 PM
This may not be an issue with the extraction.. but you mention that you had to push the disconnector down and then the slide freed up. I just noticed on my NEW Springfield that the sear spring, (center tang) was cut at a slight angle. Not a clean 90 degree cut. AND that the angled face of the disconnector had a machine mark in it that the 3000 grit knife sharpening tape would not touch when polishing the bluing off. A new disconnector in, and that slight angled spring still wanted to make disconnector not move as freely as it should have. I just dropped in a new sear spring.
YES, I guess I could have contacted Springfield and they would have fixed both.
It did not affect it's feeding or ejecting.

ArthurDent
January 28, 2012, 02:09 AM
Hi all,

It's on its way back to Springfield for a factory service.

You can call me chicken, but I'd rather have it done right than void the warranty and mess things up.

Updates when I get it back and test it.

Thanks again! :)

moxie
January 28, 2012, 08:46 AM
You did the right thing!

iLikeOldgunsIlikeNewGuns
January 28, 2012, 03:10 PM
i agree with Moxie, hope it's everything you wanted it to be when you get it back!

and I can't resist... DON'T PANIC Dent Arthur Dent!

:D

ArthurDent
January 30, 2012, 10:24 PM
All, No news yet on my 1911. But, I thought everyone might enjoy this fun little turn of events.

Tonight on my way home from a particularly frustrating day, I stopped at a Local Gun Shop, and saw:

My exact model...

Brand new in the box...

More than $100 cheaper than I paid for mine. :banghead:

To add insult to injury, the slide was as smooth as glass.

Oh well... C'est la vie. (le sigh.)


iLikeOldgunsIlikeNewGuns, I "Don't Panic!" (at least I try not to), and I always have my towel with me. :D Have you noticed that there's a DAdams, a Ford Prefect, and a Prosser on here also?
Be good, and try to avoid Vogon Poetry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogon#Poetry). ;)

Greg528iT
February 1, 2012, 11:49 AM
Shouldn't that read..
WAS brand new in the box... is now in my hot little hands at home???

Everything I've read tells me that when you get yours back form Springfield, it'll be good to go.

ArthurDent
March 11, 2012, 01:54 AM
The 1911 came back from Springfield about 2 weeks ago. No charge! :)

Life has kept me from getting to the range, but today I made a few hours.

Everything works beautifully! :D

I ran four different magazines dry, without any sign of a problem.

Now, 3-months after buying it, I can begin to use it and start trying to like it.

Thanks again, to all who have helped with this problem child!

iLikeOldgunsIlikeNewGuns
March 15, 2012, 07:31 PM
iLikeOldgunsIlikeNewGuns, I "Don't Panic!" (at least I try not to), and I always have my towel with me. :D Have you noticed that there's a DAdams, a Ford Prefect, and a Prosser on here also?
Be good, and try to avoid Vogon Poetry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogon#Poetry). ;)

hahaha, I have indeed noticed Ford Prefect, and DAdams, and I feel like I've seen one other Hitchhiker username, but it escapes me at this moment :D Glad to hear you have your towel x-)

The 1911 came back from Springfield about 2 weeks ago. No charge! :)

Life has kept me from getting to the range, but today I made a few hours.

Everything works beautifully! :D

I ran four different magazines dry, without any sign of a problem.

Now, 3-months after buying it, I can begin to use it and start trying to like it.

Thanks again, to all who have helped with this problem child!

3 months!? Jeeeez Louise! I understand that that's from the time you bought it, vs sent it out, but still! Well I'm really glad to hear she's runnin' like clockwork at this point!!! Enjoy!

I've been driving myself nuts waiting for a 1911 slide in the mail. I bought the gun mostly due to its gorgeous finish, and it was NIB, inspection confirmed this to be true, but after I got it home I noticed some subtle blemishes in the bluing, splatter marks basically from somewhere in between the de-greasing and the cooking process :(
After calling the manufacturer, and calling the finisher they put me in touch with, It's been sent out and at their shop for just about a month now, and I'm really missing having a 1911 for each hand! It only made it to the range twice before I sent it in for a re-finish. I wish they'd make a screw-up top priority to re-do, as far as their scheduled work goes, is that not how it's done, or do they have a months worth of re-do's!? man it stinks waiting for something that should have been right the first time! :cuss::banghead: I've been checking the mailbox every day like a mad-man, because they are very hard to get on the phone. I guess I'll try to distract myself and forget about it until it just shows up.

Anyhoo, rant over. Very glad to hear your 1911 is now working as it should! :)

SwampWolf
March 17, 2012, 07:22 PM
Everything works beautifully!

Just curious: Did Springfield inform you as to what was wrong with the pistol; or what they fixed to make it run right?

ArthurDent
March 20, 2012, 12:03 AM
iLikeOldgunsIlikeNewGuns, Yep, 3 months. There's a LOT going on in my life right now, so other things kept me from worrying about it too much.

I hope you get your refinished beauty back soon!

Springfield only took about a month to fix things. I think that's actually a pretty good turn around. It seemed like forever, but as I said, there were other wolves at the door to keep me distracted. ;)

SwampWolf, I got a page from Springfield describing the fixes. I'm told that they are typically quite terse in their descriptions of repairs and this was no exception. I can't quote verbatim because I don't have the page here with me, but it said two things: 1) refitted slide, and 2) polished surface scratches. That was about all that it said, other than addresses and such.

This last Saturday I got a rare trip to the range with 3 of my buds and we blew through a bunch of ammo. :D The 1911 was still flawless! :)

Sadly, my accuracy with it leaves a bit to be desired. I was doing much better with the polymer frames, so I think practice will help that. My friends found it to be quite accurate.

So now I have my very first 1911, and it works, and it's beautiful. :)

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