ok...its tv but why is there a hog problem!


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janobles14
January 2, 2012, 03:23 AM
fine...i was wathcing "hogs gone wild" on tv. all i hear about is this huge hog problem across america. well if you havent seen the show then ill nutshell it for you.

1. client calls because they are scared of a pig infestation for one reason or another.
2. "professionals" go in and want to trap these things...and half the time just knife them.
3. yeah! the coast is clear and the world is right!

ummmmm............i read so many threads on here about how hogs just overrun this and that. i have hunted these things on farms that have had problems and after a few weeks there are about ZERO pigs left. i know of a ranch in texas that developed a pig issue but thought it would be better to make it a less expensive add on to the deer schedule...didnt work.

damn...these things are not hard to hunt or kill! so why is there such a hog issue? if you have pigs that hurt your land, crop, or herd...kill the bastards! believe me, there are enough of us out there who will do the job for you AND give you pork chops.

maybe im missing something. if so just let a brother know. if not...call me, i have tons of ammo.

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Saakee
January 2, 2012, 03:55 AM
Because they have a prolific rate of breeding. No matter how many you kill, you MISSED that one pregnant sow.

tarosean
January 2, 2012, 03:59 AM
damn...these things are not hard to hunt or kill! so why is there such a hog issue? if you have pigs that hurt your land, crop, or herd...kill the bastards! believe me, there are enough of us out there who will do the job for you AND give you pork chops.

Not enough like minded people nor hunters in general to put a dent in the populations....

wyohome
January 2, 2012, 04:30 AM
I wish we would develop a hog problem in Wyoming. I have time, ammo, and love smoked pig meat.

newbuckeye
January 2, 2012, 04:36 AM
Because they have a prolific rate of breeding. No matter how many you kill, you MISSED that one pregnant sow.

Very common for a sow to have 3 or more litters a year in warm climates....

janobles14
January 2, 2012, 04:49 AM
i get all of this, but i have personally been part of a team that has completely eliminated three pig populations. prolific rate of breeding or not it is a combatibile problem. like i said...give me a call! its me and three SWAT members with NVG and FLIR gear. it doesnt take that long! maybe i am naive but i still dont get it.

SimplyChad
January 2, 2012, 04:50 AM
they also can eat anything and are rather adaptable

wyohome
January 2, 2012, 05:16 AM
Very common for a sow to have 3 or more litters a year in warm climates....
Not that many, but maybe 2.5 litters per year.

JohnKSa
January 2, 2012, 06:09 AM
...i have personally been part of a team that has completely eliminated three pig populations.How did you verify how many there were before you started killing them so you could tell when they were all dead?

How were these areas isolated to prevent hogs from coming and going at will? What I'm getting at is, how did you prevent any from escaping to other areas where they could repopulate and come back? And how can you be sure that more won't move into the area later?

From what I can tell, when hogs are pressured in one area, they just move to another area (or maybe become much more wary) until things cool off. Then they come back. And if you really do get them all, more move in. If the first batch found a way to get there, the next batch will too...

alsaqr
January 2, 2012, 10:51 AM
Not enough like minded people nor hunters in general to put a dent in the populations....

Most folks will not shoot wild hogs while deer hunting for fear it will ruin their chance to zap old mossyhorns. They fail to realize the presence of those wild hogs is quickly decimating the deer population. You can't put a feeder or game plot anywhere in southern OK without attracting wild hogs.

You can't eliminate wild hogs in any given large area. Trapping is the most effective wild hog control.

In OK the hog hunting "ranches" are a big part of the problem. They buy hogs for their clients to hunt in their spot and stalk areas. Those hogs get out and multiply like rats. It is also fashionable for Okies to release domestic hogs in the wild: It's illegal but no one enforces it. Some of the hogs i trap and shoot look like dirty show pigs.

Carl N. Brown
January 2, 2012, 11:25 AM
I wish we would develop a hog problem in Wyoming. I have time, ammo, and love smoked pig meat.

No you do not (to the first part). Feral hogs are a pestilential foreshadowing of the Apocalypse, the death of all that is good and wholesome.

Landowners, their family and tenants in Tennessee can kill any feral hogs encountered by any legal hunting means but without regard to seasons or bag limits. A landowner can get a permit for himself and up to ten designated persons to use any illegal hunting technique (bait, nightlights, etc). TWRA TN wildlife resources agency regards wild pigs as a target for extermination, and does not advise relocation of pigs. All trapped pigs must be killed by law.

They are a pestilence to be eradicated. You do not want to develop a wild hog problem. Count your blessings.

Problem is with the TWRA approach, licensed sport hunters are not allowed to kill wild pigs, since it was canned sports shooting that encouraged people to release wild pigs in many areas in the first place.

der Teufel
January 2, 2012, 12:31 PM
Not that many, but maybe 2.5 litters per year.

According to Texas A&M researchers, the actual number is around 1.5 litters per year with 5-6 piglets per litter. This was reported in an article published in Quality Whitetails magazine, the journal of the Quality Deer Management Association. Check the June-July 2011 issue, or read the specific article at http://feralhogs.tamu.edu/files/2011/05/Chumming-for-Hogs.pdf

The author, Dr. Billy Higginbotham, has written a number of articles on the topic of feral hogs. They're well written and easy to read, as well as being very informative. I give this article two thumbs up!

41
January 2, 2012, 01:42 PM
Where I hunt wild hogs, it is absolutely so thick in the woods, that you can go very few places off of the roads. It is also a fairly large piece of land. There is no way you could kill all of the hogs on this land, and if you did kill all of the hogs on our property, there are still thousands on the surrounding properties to re-invade our land.

MCgunner
January 2, 2012, 02:33 PM
Simple, the natality rate of cottontail rabbits, but the infant survival rate of a grizzly cub. What's hard to figure out about THAT? What I wonder, often, is while we've had pigs around for a long time, their population just exploded about 10 or 15 years ago. But, I figure it's probably just reached the point in that J growth curve where the slope of the curve is increasing exponentially, just my theory. You wildlife biologists will understand that, I reckon. Even cottontails have a classic J population growth curve, and that's with high predation and lower infant survival. I would think the curve is even steeper for something that will kill you if you mess with their babies. :D

Carl N. Brown
January 2, 2012, 03:54 PM
Recent population explosion may be explained by introduction of exotic species like Russian boar for sport hunting where there were previously no pig population.

nathan
January 2, 2012, 03:57 PM
Texas has so much agricultural lands and crops are perfect food for hog explosion.

MCgunner
January 2, 2012, 05:32 PM
Recent population explosion may be explained by introduction of exotic species like Russian boar for sport hunting where there were previously no pig population.

European wild boar were introduced into Calhoun County in the 30s. They've not been a problem until the last 15 years when they just exploded. There were no feral hogs in this county at the time the Powderhorn Ranch brought in the boars from the San Antonio zoo. All surrounding ranches, including mine, are the beneficiaries of the Powderhorn's wisdom...:rolleyes:..., but they're pretty good eating and fun to shoot.

To my knowledge, there have been NO introductions of wild boar anywhere near my home county in the last 40 years and there were virtually NO areas in Texas not populated with feral hog or wild boar for the last 40 years, so your explanation would not hold water here.

DeepSouth
January 2, 2012, 06:01 PM
i get all of this, but i have personally been part of a team that has completely eliminated three pig populations. prolific rate of breeding or not it is a combatibile problem. like i said...give me a call! its me and three SWAT members with NVG and FLIR gear. it doesnt take that long! maybe i am naive but i still dont get it.


I swear I don't mean this in a rude way but, yes, you are naive. I seriously, seriously, doubt you "eliminated three pig populations" what you most likely did was MOVE them. Which is great for one land owner and bad for another. They are smart, believe it or not, and when you kill a couple they'll be gone for a while but they will return eventually. I shot 3 out of about 15 in one of my pastures about three years ago and I haven't seen them again, but my neighboring land owner has them all over his place he just doesn't care.

Now, if you are confident enough in your elimination abilities to offer a money back guarantee if they come back then there will be people beating down your door to pay you for your skill set. Who knows, maybe you can do what thousands of other people wish they could do, and if you can you could make yourself a wealthy man, farmers across the country will be throwing money at you.


Just think of them like roaches, if you see ten then theirs a thousand of them. If you kill twenty, then there's two thousand you didn't see.

MCgunner
January 2, 2012, 06:10 PM
They've made shootin' 'em from helicopters legal in Texas, now. Seems a more effective technique, but it's still an uphill battle.

Flintknapper
January 2, 2012, 06:14 PM
^^^^^^^ There's your answer folks! (DeepSouth) I concur.


Unless the hogs were under high fence AND a survey done afterward, then what happened was, THEY MOVED.

Words or phrases such as "Eradicate, Wipe Out, Completely Removed, etc" should NEVER be used in the same sentence as "Hog". ;)

Not gonna happen.

Yes, some folks are better at killing pigs than others. I am happy to hear of success stories and applaud those who make the effort, but it is naive (at best) to think you solved the problem or that hog hunting is "easy".

Shadow 7D
January 2, 2012, 06:16 PM
um kinda, until you count how much the heli cost to run an hour ($1000 ish after required maintenance which is something like 2 to 1)

MCgunner
January 2, 2012, 06:26 PM
Lotsa BIG, wealth ranches down here. :D Capitalism still rules, here.

T Bran
January 2, 2012, 06:28 PM
There is so much private land that no one is allowed to hunt on. Not saying that it's wrong I get the liability thing but as long as there are these little sanctuaries spread hither and yon you will never kill them all. Heck there is lots of public land in Fl. that you cant hunt on. So no matter what you do you get reinfested eventually it is like fumigating only half of the house.
T

Sam1911
January 2, 2012, 06:36 PM
So no matter what you do you get reinfested eventually it is like fumigating only half of the house.


Actually, based on everything I've read here and elsewhere, the situation is more like having a house full of roaches, and the folks who get out and shoot them are the equivalent of killing a couple of roaches, in one closet, in the basement, in a shoebox.

Bobson
January 2, 2012, 06:53 PM
believe me, there are enough of us out there who will do the job for you AND give you pork chops.

maybe im missing something. if so just let a brother know. if not...call me, i have tons of ammo.
No kidding. I know a number of people who would be happy to do it for free, and split the meat with the property owner, to boot.

I wish we would develop a hog problem in Wyoming. I have time, ammo, and love smoked pig meat.
I know a whole lot of people who wish the same thing for AZ, and I'm just one of em.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
January 2, 2012, 08:36 PM
Originally Posted by janobles14
believe me, there are enough of us out there who will do the job for you AND give you pork chops.

maybe im missing something. if so just let a brother know. if not...call me, i have tons of ammo.
No kidding. I know a number of people who would be happy to do it for free, and split the meat with the property owner, to boot.

Quote:
I wish we would develop a hog problem in Wyoming. I have time, ammo, and love smoked pig meat.
I know a whole lot of people who wish the same thing for AZ, and I'm just one of em.

An old saying comes to mind here..."Oh the fools, they no not for what they wish"

Another one "Be of cautious mind when you speak of wishes"

Another one "Be careful what you wish for"

Another more popular one when on this subject "Like HELL you wish for them!" :D

Carl N. Brown
January 2, 2012, 09:54 PM
"Great Smoky Mountains National Park battling hog infestation ..." Jan 24, 2010
www.timesnews.net/article.php?id=9020055
"Hogs in the park date to the early 1920s, when a herd of European hogs escaped from a game reserve on Hooper’s Bald in the mountains of Graham County, N.C. The wild hogs moved into the park by the 1940s.... the park’s wild hogs tend to look more like Eurasian wild boar than feral pigs."

Maybe isolated at one time, but now reported present in 70 of Tennessee's 95 counties. Recent reports have it that officials believe hunters have helped spread wild hogs to promote hog hunting. I suspect an additional problem is that people have trapped nuisance hogs and took them to "remote" areas for release not having the heart to kill them, plus escapees from canned hunting preserves.

Another possiblity is that the old "shoot, shovel, shut up" philosophy died out in recent generations allowing the pig population explosion. Of course we could always blame climate change.

Double Naught Spy
January 2, 2012, 09:55 PM
Recent population explosion may be explained by introduction of exotic species like Russian boar for sport hunting where there were previously no pig population.

The Russian boars are the exact same species as the domestic hogs we have here. "Russian boars" and "wild boars" (same thing) have been introduced several times into the US by various indiviuals and the problem didn't materialize (as noted previously) until just recently...or did it? Well, the current problem is new, but being overrun with hogs isn't.

There are some other species of hogs that have been brought to the US, but we don't seem to have a problem with bearded pigs or warty pigs.

In OK the hog hunting "ranches" are a big part of the problem. They buy hogs for their clients to hunt in their spot and stalk areas. Those hogs get out and multiply like rats. It is also fashionable for Okies to release domestic hogs in the wild: It's illegal but no one enforces it. Some of the hogs i trap and shoot look like dirty show pigs.

For the last few years, I have read various accountings of hogs being introduced into the wild, the tie to the first Spanish releases, unintentional losses, the apparent and highly celebrated subsequent introduction of known Eurasian stock for hunting, etc. Somehow, the distribution of hogs, population, etc. seems difficult to account for even with their long history in the US and long period of occasional escapees.

A few weeks ago, I was chatting with my father who grew up outside of Cooper, Texas. He was responsible for the raising of pigs and part of his daily chores were to unpen the pigs in the morning and turn them out to the bottoms so that they could free range all day long. In the evening, he would have to round them up again. Over time, they would lose a few hogs, gain a few, and occasionally have to get with neighbors who did the exact same thing and return errant hogs. In short, the program meant that the hogs could be fed on the cheap by letting the hogs find most of their own food, kept the amount of hog refuse in the pen down to what accumulated overnight, and kept an active breeding program that prevented inbreeding. No doubt it also meant that there were free range hogs that simply opted to never go home. Let's face it. Folks have enough problems keeping penned and fenced hogs from escaping and so you know there would be losses, er, escapes from free-ranging hogs. That was back in the 1930s and 1940s.

Go back nearly 100 years. Hogan in "The Republic of Texas" (1946, p. 34, UT Press) talks about this same process where hogs were "raised in the woods in great abundance" with no corn except a little to help keep them gentle. In other words, people basically kept free range hogs using corn to keep them from straying too far, not keeping them fenced or penned at all.

I certainly don't doubt that the free-range raising of hogs has been commonplace throughout the south with a long standing tradition that undoubtedly would have contributed significantly to likely establishing in many areas, maintaining, and certainly expanding feral hog populations. In fact, free-ranging of hogs appears to have been a dominant norm historically across many parts of the US and even back in the 1600s, the problem of free-range hogs going feral and the population exploding was noted (see Virginia below).

Other references...
Free-ranged swine in New York in 1842 (pp. 384-385)
http://books.google.com/books?id=d6rNAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA384&dq=raising+swine&hl=en&ei=ZztJTuCyKMemsQKc1OCHBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=raising%20swine&f=false

New London Company's importation of hogs in Virginia in 1600 that were allowed to free range had resulted in the colony nearly being overrun by 1627 as they had become wild feeding in the woods (p. 63). Free-ranging was also noted in several other colonies at this time. Page 64 also refers to native hogs of the west, the description being of feral hogs from various earlier settlements.
http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=bwGP2onSFioC&printsec=frontcover&output=reader

In this 1812 report, swine in Louisiana are common and raised without expense by allowing to [free] range in the woods. See pages 168, 185-186, 229-230, 379.
http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=HikVAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader

Free-ranging mentioned in this 1888 volume on page 252.
http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=YtBCAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader

Free-ranged swine in New York in 1842 (pp. 384-385)
http://books.google.com/books?id=d6rNAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA384&dq=raising+swine&hl=en&ei=ZztJTuCyKMemsQKc1OCHBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=raising%20swine&f=false

More feral hogs addressed here in 1897, p. 1134.
http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=VxhOAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader

1881 notation of free-ranging of hogs in Texas and efforts to keep them from going feral as they turn feral quickly.
http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=HF5JAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader

Page 62 of this 1858 Texas Almanac noted hogs subject to running wild in Denton County, but there were losses attributed to bear that were aplenty, and also to wild hog claimants.
http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=mFtNAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader
I currently reside in Denton County, Texas and we don't have bears here anymore.

No doubt the Spanish released some hogs that went feral, but by and large, the feral hog population looks like it has been steadily and continually salted (pun intended), populated, and repopulated by the use of free-range ranching methods of domestic hogs from at least as early as the first part of the 1600s to at least the mid 1900s. And now as alsaqr is noting, people are still releasing hogs into the wild. I don't doubt that there are folks who still free range their hogs where they can as well. Free ranging and limited tending of domesticates has been common at least for the past 3500 years (based on early writings).

...i have personally been part of a team that has completely eliminated three pig populations.
I don't think those words mean what you think they mean.

janobles14
January 3, 2012, 12:01 AM
I swear I don't mean this in a rude way but, yes, you are naive. I seriously, seriously, doubt you "eliminated three pig populations" what you most likely did was MOVE them. Which is great for one land owner and bad for another. They are smart, believe it or not, and when you kill a couple they'll be gone for a while but they will return eventually. I shot 3 out of about 15 in one of my pastures about three years ago and I haven't seen them again, but my neighboring land owner has them all over his place he just doesn't care.

Now, if you are confident enough in your elimination abilities to offer a money back guarantee if they come back then there will be people beating down your door to pay you for your skill set. Who knows, maybe you can do what thousands of other people wish they could do, and if you can you could make yourself a wealthy man, farmers across the country will be throwing money at you.


Just think of them like roaches, if you see ten then theirs a thousand of them. If you kill twenty, then there's two thousand you didn't see.


ok well perhaps they just moved. but after the month it took us to shoot them, we havent seen or heard sign of them. and to the best of my knowledge none of the surrounding land owners have either.

...and its hard to offer money back on free! :)

baylorattorney
January 3, 2012, 12:54 AM
They breed exponentially and the destroy most things in their path and they scare off the game, such as deer. They are feral. An abomination IMO. we've killed 220 in 3 months and they keep coming.

Now is a good time to kill sows as they are pregnant.

Mark, esquire

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
January 3, 2012, 01:09 AM
Carl_N.Brown, Sorry to tell you this, but that is by far nowhere NEAR where the Hog populations started in Tennessee. Double Naught nailed the reason for about half the hog population in the state of Tennessee. The other half were stocked by places such as Catoosa Hunting Preserve in the Cumberland Mountains area (Where I was raised) and many others. Hog hunting has always been pretty popular in Eastern and Middle Tennessee. I grew up hunting the beasts. Most of the ones I took were feral, probably second and third generation. Some looked to be straight up Russian with absolutely no domesticated features whatsoever. They were generally stocked from trapped areas. But many were actually true Eurasian/Russian Boars that were brought over for breeding and repopulating the current sock.

My own personal opinion of how this got all so out of hand is that it was caused by a multitude of factors including, stocking, free ranging as DNS stated (damn we actually agreed on something DNS, call Ripleys!) and the heavy popularity that hog hunting gained in the late 80's and early 90's. With popularity comes money. As fast as these critters breed and grow, a low cost investment will have high gain returns in as little as 2 years. Pretty good business projection.

janobles14, trust me buddy, they just moved. A month is no time at all. Sorry to have to inform you but you in no way killed them all. They will be back. As long as there is a food source, they will eventually come back around or an entirely new sounder will creep in. You would think as many as Flintlock has killed off his property in the past 5 years that there wouldn't be any left in his county let alone on his property. Yet there they are still!

Art Eatman
January 3, 2012, 01:10 AM
DNS, back when I was a youngun I recall hearing and reading about "Piney woods rooters" in east Texas. And the Arkansas football team is called the Razorbacks for a reason. :D My understanding is that it takes about three generations for hogs to be noticeably reverting to wild or razorback characteristics.

shiftyer1
January 3, 2012, 01:39 AM
I think there has been a serious decline in people hunting and areas to hunt compared to days gone by. Pigs have been raised free range forever and ever and people have been slaughtering and processing their OWN meat forever.....have many do now compared to 50 years ago or even 20 years ago. Yes i'm sure people turn some loose to stock hunting spots but most of it imho its from meat coming from the grocery store and not from going out to make meat.

I can't discount the canned hunt game farm escape theory totally because about 2 weeks ago I had 3 wierd looking antelope deer some kind of critter come walking and grazing thru the yard. I doubt they were released but there are several places around here with high fences which generally means foreign animals. I've had enough fences destoyed from natural causes and have seen a goat climb a 6 foot fence to know that fences are never solid.

I don't have hogs on my land but there are lots 3? miles away, i've yet to understand why none have found their way here. I wouldn't mind a couple getting lost and showing up everyyear but more than a couple a year would SUCK!!

41 Mag
January 3, 2012, 06:48 AM
maybe im missing something. if so just let a brother know. if not...call me, i have tons of ammo.

I totally applaud your effort in culling them out, but....

If they have a source of food, cover, and water, they will simply move into a particular area and become somewhat dormant. THey don't need much area to support them as they eat just about anything they can root up, pull down or catch alive.

Myself and a friend both own two places, about 80 or so miles apart. His is along a river with plenty of impenetrable cover, but also with planty of wide open farm land as well. Mine is a small piece of 100 ro so acres surrounded by mostly cattle production with hay pastures and hardwood forest. Nothing too horribly tough to get through but does provide some cover. Over the past 15 years or so we have used just about everything short of set charges on them, and still they keep coming.

As has been mentioned they are VERY smart, and have great senses of smell and hearing and though it's reported they don't, they CAN see pretty danged good as well. Once a little bit of pressure has been put on a certain sounder of them the survivors, and there will be a few, will learn really quick to avoid that area. Even if you DO manage to get the whole bunch, as mentioned, it will only be a matter of time before the next is pressured in one form or fashion to move on and spread out. It might be that they hold up in some thick bottom until they either expand o the point of needing food, or water, but some will move, and they will not be an issue until the population grows, then your right back to square one.

DeepSouth
January 3, 2012, 07:29 AM
ok well perhaps they just moved. but after the month it took us to shoot them, we havent seen or heard sign of them. and to the best of my knowledge none of the surrounding land owners have either.



I don't doubt that at all, when there is pressure in an area they will leave for a while. They will leave for years in many cases, and if joining land owners were also putting pressure on them yeah they'll keep moving. wait a couple years instead of a couple months, they will be back. Honestly it surprises me that it took a month of shooting them to run them off, must have been a big place. They will find a sanctuary before you can kill them all.

Flintknapper
January 3, 2012, 08:30 AM
Art Eatman wrote:

DNS, back when I was a youngun I recall hearing and reading about "Piney woods rooters" in east Texas. And the Arkansas football team is called the Razorbacks for a reason.

Yes, a noticeably different hog in appearance and temperament! 25-30 years ago...most of what you would encounter in East Texas was the PWR.

Now...the Feral Hogs we see are different in their build and especially in temperament.

On average...today's Feral Hog is a much better survivalist when faced with human predation. They are smarter and have learned to RUN at the first signs of danger.

In the past, the Piney Woods Rooter was just about as likely to "stand it's ground" as to flee, and even IF it did relent...it took it's sweet time about it.

Consequently...their numbers (and genetic contribution) have dwindled.

And no, I do not have scientific "proof" of any of the above, just my observations of some 30 years.

Art Eatman
January 3, 2012, 11:50 AM
Flintknapper, my guess would be that it's merely more generations reverting farther back to what I guess could be the original sort of truly wild hog. I've mentioned before that in miscellaneous readings through the decades, it has been consistently claimed that the hog is one of the few species that will revert as much and as soon.

Realize that I make no claim to being any sort of expert on hogs. :)

alsaqr
January 3, 2012, 07:57 PM
In late 2010 we started shooting and trapping wild hogs on our place in Garvin county, OK. By early May, 2011 we had taken over 40 hogs off that place. For four months all we saw on our game cameras were a few solitary boars. In September the hogs came back. Now the place is over-run with hogs-again.

It doesn't help that All About U hog hunting ranch is a few miles away.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll268/alsaqr/PICT0085.jpg

JustinNC
January 4, 2012, 10:17 AM
Hogs are a huge problem....until you knock on the door to seek permission to hunt....then they haven't seen but one in the last 5 years...and none since.

kyle1974
January 4, 2012, 12:43 PM
Everyone wants hogs.....until you have them. There are few places I've ever seen that have a "just right" number of pigs. It's usually all or nothing. I prefer nothing.

MCgunner
January 4, 2012, 01:26 PM
I like having hogs, gives me year round meat. :D I can't get down there to check the trap every morning, though, so I don't set it in the summer. But, I bought the place for hunting. I don't even have an ag exemption, so I like having the extra hunting and freezer meat opportunities.

Hey, hogs ain't bad unless they're eating your corn. Only corn I have comes out of my feeder and the hogs are welcome to a share. They haven't driven off any deer than I can tell, either, lots of deer down there. Even the quail have come back to an extent and we have more hogs than I can ever remember.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
January 4, 2012, 10:29 PM
Hey, hogs ain't bad unless they're eating your corn.

Bust an axle on your tractor or bust up a combine rig because of hog furrows once and you would change that tune VERY quickly MCgunner.

Todd1700
January 5, 2012, 12:45 AM
Hogs are a huge problem....until you knock on the door to seek permission to hunt....then they haven't seen but one in the last 5 years...and none since.

Well with all due respect just because a guy has a hog problem on his place doesn't necessarily mean he wants to give free run of his land to strangers with guns. Lots of potential problems there too.

As for why hogs suddenly became a bigger problem. I think some of the hog hunters that caught them live with dogs are to blame. Notice I said "SOME". But I know for a fact that some of them would catch hogs in one place and go turn them loose on another guys land. Then when that guy would start having a hog problem they would show up eager offer their services as hog hunters. Thus you would have a situation where a landowner is allowing a group of guys to try to help him get rid of his hog problem never knowing that those very guys are the reason he has a hog problem in the first place. I firmly believe that hogs were rapidly spread to many areas in this fashion. This practice, although nearly impossible to prove, is why the state of Alabama passed a law making it illegal to bring a captured hog out of the woods alive.

And no, you do not want them on your land unless you have no other game animals there that you care to hunt. They breed like flies. Sows can have 2 litters a year and every female in those litters can start having litters of their own at 7 months of age. One pair of breeding adults turned loose on a place with adequate food supply can result in 1000 hogs in a 5 year period. They eat just about anything and compete with other game for the resources on your land. The damage that even a small group can inflict on a large cornfield in just a few weeks is amazing to behold. They tore up some of our fields so badly if I had shown the damage to those of you unexperienced with what hogs can do and asked you "what caused this" your answers would range from "small bulldoziers" to "impact craters from a 155mm howitzer".

Skyshot
January 6, 2012, 02:32 PM
No you do not (to the first part). Feral hogs are a pestilential foreshadowing of the Apocalypse, the death of all that is good and wholesome.

Landowners, their family and tenants in Tennessee can kill any feral hogs encountered by any legal hunting means but without regard to seasons or bag limits. A landowner can get a permit for himself and up to ten designated persons to use any illegal hunting technique (bait, nightlights, etc). TWRA TN wildlife resources agency regards wild pigs as a target for extermination, and does not advise relocation of pigs. All trapped pigs must be killed by law.

They are a pestilence to be eradicated. You do not want to develop a wild hog problem. Count your blessings.

Problem is with the TWRA approach, licensed sport hunters are not allowed to kill wild pigs, since it was canned sports shooting that encouraged people to release wild pigs in many areas in the first place.
Another, ???***??? game law by the Illustrious Tennessee commision.

olafhardtB
January 7, 2012, 03:12 AM
When I was Younker the woods were full of free roaming hogs in south Arkansas. After I came back from Viet Nam, I didn't see any. They are there agian but not as many as before. However, back then you couldn't shoot them and you can now, so maybe they just stay hid.

MCgunner
January 7, 2012, 12:41 PM
Bust an axle on your tractor or bust up a combine rig because of hog furrows once and you would change that tune VERY quickly MCgunner.

Well, I ain't got a tractor and my dirt bikes handle the wallows nicely. In fact, it's fun! :D

I do get your point and I do know farmers that hate hogs for a plethora of reasons beyond John Deere parts. I went out some with a guy that had dogs out in the College Port, Texas area in the rice fields. He had rights to hunt out there, no guns, just dogs with knives. I'm too old to stay up all night chasing dogs through rice fields anymore, but it was fun when I wasn't so stove up. :rolleyes:

MtnSpur
January 7, 2012, 01:29 PM
West Texas is rampant with wild hog as is witnessed by almost daily postings from folks who have trail cams and equal number of postings of a hog taken here and there. I believe Sam 1911 said it best, they are like cockroachs. Killing off a dozen in one section just moves them to another section. Thick impenetrable mesquite thickets are no match for us humans whereas a hog can run through these with ease.
Hey, I love backribs as much as the next guy and will drop everything for the chance to take some pesky hogs off a neighbors place but they have us outnumbered and adapt quicker to terrain then we do.

T.A.Sharps
January 7, 2012, 02:24 PM
I know it sounds weird, but I wish my Sate had a pig problem.

The idea of being able to take any rifle I own in a shotgun state and to have the freedom to hunt hogs any time of year sounds like the greatest thing ever.

Food value alone would make it worth it. About 10 years ago my mom and aunt got half a hog in meat and I still have some loin in the freezer, would of eaten it sooner but I didn't know about it. I couldn't imagine getting a few hogs a year.

Hard to hunt or not.

MCgunner
January 7, 2012, 02:45 PM
With hogs, night hunting is the rule if there's any pressure on 'em at all. I have done that, but I'm not really a night owl kinda guy, prefer to be at home in bed with mama. :D I let the trap do the hunting, normally. I've taken a few on my place in daylight, the exceptions, and I've hunted 'em where they were REALLY over-populated on fenced game ranches and been able to take 'em in daylight. That was fun. The trap keeps me in pork now days, though.

If you have a feeder and game camera set up on it, you can pattern the hogs, see when they're coming around, and be there when they show up. It saves saddle time in a stand if you don't like sitting in the dark in the cold or something.

outdoorsguy29
January 7, 2012, 02:53 PM
Question: being very new to all this what is an appropriate caliber in handgun for hogs?

MCgunner
January 7, 2012, 03:07 PM
A revolver that says "magnum". .357 minimum and with a heavy bullet hot load. Everyone has their faves. The only handguns I've taken hogs with are .357 magnum in a Ruger 6.5" Blackhawk (165 grain SWC and 180 XTP handloads), .357 in a Taurus 3" 66 (140 Speer JHP to the head, my carry that day, was just walking a trail), and .30-30 with 150 grain Nosler BT handload (Thompson Center contender 12" hunter barrel with 2x optic). Use of heavy bullets in the caliber helps with penetration on larger hogs through the shoulder.

baylorattorney
January 7, 2012, 05:40 PM
.357 magnum.

MtnSpur
January 8, 2012, 12:36 PM
Question: being very new to all this what is an appropriate caliber in handgun for hogs?

These .357's work well :D

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h351/MtnSpur/SW66-1-1.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h351/MtnSpur/66ColtPython640x359.jpg

But then this does it with an exclamation point: 1924 New Service in .45LC
http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h351/MtnSpur/1924%20New%20Service/NSandJJKHolster800x449.jpg

Zoogster
January 8, 2012, 04:18 PM
I didn't read most of the thread, but I do recognize why there is a problem.

In Texas for example there is almost no public lands.
Almost all land is privately owned.

This means rather than heading out into the public forest as would be done in some parts of the United States, you must hunt from private land.

A lot of this private land has fences, borders, and does not allow trespassing.
One must get permission to hunt on it ahead of time.


That is what lets it remain a problem. Even if you clean up the problem on your own land, you have no control over the pig problem on nearby neighbors' land.
This means all the hogs have to do is cross private property lines to reach safety, and all the traps and hunters on the other side are useless until the pigs come back later.
You can eliminate the problem on your property, but they just breed nearby on property you have no access to, and which does not care or wish to eliminate them.
They then cross back onto your problem in the future and continue the rampage.


Some of the biggest problems are on the very large ranches, or crop fields. Crops that are hundreds or even thousands of acres.
Some of these people kill the animals actively, or have others do it, but some do not.
Those that do not are ripe breeding and safety locations, and that makes it impossible to actually stop the problem.



So the problem is not because hogs are that hard to control, they are not. Human beings have the capacity to readily wipe out any species they want fairly quickly, as has been demonstrated many times.
The hog problem could be eliminated in a season long campaign, if it was so desired.
The problem is the legal situation with so many large pieces of private land that one cannot cross. It is a man made legal issue, not a animal out of control issue.

MCgunner
January 8, 2012, 08:43 PM
Lots of public land in east Texas and lots of pigs there, too. They insist on stupid rules like no baiting or night hunting on most of this public land, so not many hogs get shot.

olafhardtB
January 9, 2012, 05:51 AM
zoogster, I think you have made one of the most intellegent replies I have ever read. It is very well thought out and written. I live on the edge of a large national forest. The public land has few pigs but the private lands are lousy with them. Maybe large land owners could open their land for pigs only to the public when other seasons are closed?

blarby
January 9, 2012, 06:28 AM
So the problem is not because hogs are that hard to control, they are not. Human beings have the capacity to readily wipe out any species they want fairly quickly, as has been demonstrated many times.

Exactly.

Humans aren't particularly well known for restraint when it comes to killing things that have things that we want. Even to the point of extinction. Poor Dodo.

What we need to do is find something, ANYTHING that hogs have some general commercial appeal for....and this "sitchiation" will fix itself.

41
January 9, 2012, 12:48 PM
Maybe large land owners could open their land for pigs only to the public when other seasons are closed?
I doubt that that will happen. It is a large liability to allow people on your land, sometimes even if they are trespassing. Also some people will not respect your land and destroy your personal property. We are always finding where people have stolen stuff from our land or destroying it. I would not want strangers on my land unattended and I don't think many other people would either.

I know that most people would not cause any problems, but there are a few people that ruin it for everyone.

MCgunner
January 9, 2012, 01:29 PM
More and more, youngsters especially lack any reverence for the land or the land owner. It's the entitlement mentality, the old song "Sign, Sign, everywhere a Sign" leftist commie mentality. God put it there, therefore it's theirs. :rolleyes: Well, THEY ain't paying the taxes and didn't spend their money for ir or the improvements or the stock that's on it or whatever. It's a lot about class envy. I suppose we could go to a pure socialist system where the government owns everything and farmers just work it for the government, but then, you'd probably lose all your firearms in such a system because you'd be a threat to the government.

But, that's a political statement in the context of the discussion, sorry. Just to say that our educational system seems to be turning out little Karl Marxes now days. :rolleyes:

Double Naught Spy
January 9, 2012, 02:28 PM
Exactly.

Humans aren't particularly well known for restraint when it comes to killing things that have things that we want. Even to the point of extinction.

The lack of restraint is what comes to mind about folks shooting the wrong animals, shooting at trees out of boredom, leaving behind trash, leaving gates open, etc. Most of the animals that have gone extinct due to humans are not intentional.

More and more, youngsters especially lack any reverence for the land or the land owner. It's the entitlement mentality, the old song "Sign, Sign, everywhere a Sign" leftist commie mentality. God put it there, therefore it's theirs. Well, THEY ain't paying the taxes and didn't spend their money for ir or the improvements or the stock that's on it or whatever.

Yeah, and I can't figure out the mentality that I don't have a right to complain about hogs tearing up my property if I don't let people hunt on my property for free attitude. I have seen it posted on several forums. Funny such folks are fine with me complaining about briar and poison ivy. They don't talk about me not having a right to complain about it unless I let them come in to cut it, pull it, or otherwise get rid of it. I wonder why that is?

Flintknapper
January 9, 2012, 03:21 PM
The reason we have so many hogs can not be defined in one tidy answer "lack of access", it is much more complex than that...but that IS certainly a key component.

There needs to be an "incentive" to kill them (as mentioned). Something many folks conveniently forget...is that there is a COST to killing pigs.

One thing that might help is:

A $20.00 bounty for any hog over 25 lbs. ($10.00 each for anything under).

That would result in a huge (but temporary) reduction in their numbers.

Short of that...I can think of nothing that will prevent them from increasing their numbers and distribution at a pandemic rate.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
January 9, 2012, 05:31 PM
A $20.00 bounty for any hog over 25 lbs. ($10.00 each for anything under).

That would result in a huge (but temporary) reduction in their numbers.

Flint, the only problem I see with that is, where would the money come from? Most every state's DNR is strapped for cash. They can barely pay for what they do now as it is. You start putting bounties on hogs and they will have to allot a pretty hefty sum of money very quickly. To front up that sum of money would put a pretty large dent in other necessary programs such as Hunters Safety courses, patrol, and many others. I remember when they had $25 bounties on Coyotes, which is much harder to get big numbers of kills on than hogs, and it caused a pretty large hole in other programs.

I see where you are going and I would completely agree if it were not for that. The meat incentive is pretty much the only thing that there is that is cost effective. But as most of us know, a wild hog over 200 pounds is about the rankest meat out there. So that incentive is a non starter since the larger more dominant females and males are going to be the biggest reproducers.

It's really a catch 22 proposition no matter how you look at it. Let strangers on your land and you get opened up to things stolen, trash, gates left open, livestock shot, sued because some moron can't walk. Don't open your land up to hunters and you get hogs and all the lovely things they do! Put bounties on hogs and you will get a temporary reduction of the population but you will have to close down other operations because you paid out 2 million in bounties that would have paid for it.

There really is no good solution without some heavy sacrifices from both the hunter community AND the landowners.

CSA 357
January 9, 2012, 07:39 PM
If they had a hog problum a couple people and a day or two wont fix it, yes if you mess with them they will leave but will be back, as my uncle ray used to say(hell its just a tv show!)

MCgunner
January 9, 2012, 07:43 PM
If they could find a poison that only worked on hogs, that's the ONLY way I can see that might work. No such thing exists, of course. Some might consider 'em big rats, but rat poison won't work, either. :D

CSA 357
January 9, 2012, 07:46 PM
wish i had about a 100# one on the grill now, i would be happy!

22-rimfire
January 9, 2012, 08:58 PM
Hog problems... why?
They reproduce like rabbits.
They are smart and very adaptable.
They eat most anything.
They eat the available food for more preferred game animals.
They can be a mite mean.
Hunting is becoming a businses and landowners do not want hunters on it without paying. And it's not like you can just drive along the highway and actually figure out who owns what.

Saakee
January 9, 2012, 09:37 PM
...But as most of us know, a wild hog over 200 pounds is about the rankest meat out there...
People keep saying that but I read posts from hunters all the time stating their harvested hogs were fine, didn't taste rank [usually] dependent upon how quickly it's butchered, what it's raised on, or time of day or year. The same thing is said about farmed boars and i've read blogs from different farmers that they have no rankness in their meat either though most of the farmers I follow are raising heirloom porkers like mulefoots.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
January 9, 2012, 10:32 PM
The diets of the farm raised hogs are much different than in the wild of course. The old saying "you are what you eat" comes to mind here. Hogs in the wild are natures "garbage disposals" and will literally eat anything. One I have never had the pleasure of trying is a Hog thats been feeding on oranges a lot! I hear it is very hard to beat. You get down in central and south texas, lord only knows what they are eating. Saakee, you are welcome to try any hog over 200 pounds you want to. It's been my experience over hundreds of hogs that those are the bad ones as far as flavor. I've killed a few that wouldn't even make good sausage! My cutoff weight for Boar is 150 pounds and Sows are 200. Anything bigger than that is bait for yotes or other hogs for me. YMMV.

TexasPatriot.308
January 9, 2012, 11:42 PM
look out my back window. I'll show you a hog problem.

outdoorsguy29
January 10, 2012, 03:49 PM
I agree with the majority of you. If money was no problem for me I'd gladly try my part to rid you of at least some of the knarly pests that seem to be spreading. We even get them out here in California,(Northern).

Flintknapper
January 10, 2012, 05:02 PM
Freedom_fighter_in_IL wrote:

Flint, the only problem I see with that is, where would the money come from? Most every state's DNR is strapped for cash. They can barely pay for what they do now as it is. You start putting bounties on hogs and they will have to allot a pretty hefty sum of money very quickly.

Yes, it would result in a substantial sum of money quickly, I agree.

In the current economic climate…it is unthinkable that ANY State would enact such a program…so I am NOT promoting the “financial” feasibility of it, just saying that a bounty is what it’s going to take to cut their numbers down.


Even if a bounty were enacted…that comes with its own set of problems.

1. Poaching of animals where there was little or none before.

2. Increase in trespass violations.

3. Increase in man hours for Wardens to keep items 1 & 2 in check.

4. Possible increase in man hours (or personnel) at the county level (over 200 counties with hog problems) to process claims/payouts.

5. Reports from counties to the State, reports from the State to the Feds (if any Federal funding was used).

Then there’s always the PETA folks to deal with and other bleeding hearts who have watched “Charlotte's Web” one too many times. :rolleyes:

So…yeah, I suppose pigs are here to stay. :(

tightgroup tiger
January 10, 2012, 08:18 PM
[QUOTE][I know a whole lot of people who wish the same thing for AZ, and I'm just one of em].

Good, you just keep them out there. We have them in the mountains in North Carolina but they haven't become a problem yet here, like they have in South Carolina.

I see them I will kill them on site, I don't care how cute their piglets are. I will kill them to.
They are the worst pestilence a state could have. I'd sooner have wolverines than ferrel hogs.

Flintknapper
January 10, 2012, 10:53 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^
Hmmmmm.......

Lets see....cross a Wolverine with a Feral Hog......and...... :D


A "Hogger-ine" I guess, or something like that. Hate to even think of it...really.

Breed too fast to even think about controlling their numbers.

Too mean to kill.

Thrive in cold weather.

Only thing worse would be a Sabre Toothed version. :eek:

Saakee
January 10, 2012, 11:08 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^
Hmmmmm.......

Lets see....cross a Wolverine with a Feral Hog......and...... :D


A "Hogger-ine" I guess, or something like that. Hate to even think of it...really.

Breed too fast to even think about controlling their numbers.

Too mean to kill.

Thrive in cold weather.

Only thing worse would be a Sabre Toothed version. :eek:
Pretty sure marvel actually did a What If...? about that before. And worst would be if they were all bonded to the Symbiote.

tarosean
January 11, 2012, 12:48 AM
Maybe large land owners could open their land for pigs only to the public when other seasons are closed?

Unfortunately our litigious society has made most land owners not want hunters on their property...

22-rimfire
January 11, 2012, 10:10 AM
It always comes down to lawyers and money. As long as land owners see dollar signs associated with hogs, they will continue to breed and spread quickly and there will be no controlling them by paid sport hunting alone.

der Teufel
January 11, 2012, 02:14 PM
Unfortunately our litigious society has made most land owners not want hunters on their property...

Yep. The folks who get annoyed when landowners complain about hogs, but won't allow free hunting on their land aren't looking at both sides of the story.

I may not like the damage the hogs are doing, and I may complain about it, but I also don't like the liability and possible damage a bunch of strangers might do. Often I'll stick with the devil I know (the hogs) as opposed to taking a chance on a different possible problem.

Hogs are bad, the alternative might be worse. In that case I usually stick to bad and try to deal with it. Typically when it gets so bad that a landowner needs to try another approach, he can often find a neighbor or friend whom he knows to be a responsible person to come shoot at the hogs. Failing that he might get a referral from someone he knows. You might say it all comes down to relationships, either personal or family.

baylorattorney
January 11, 2012, 03:21 PM
I wouldn't blame litigation as to the main reason I dont want armed strangers on my land at night.

baylorattorney
January 11, 2012, 03:22 PM
I mean the simple signing of a WAIVER OR RELEASE prevents any invitee from suing or winning a lawsuit. So that ain't the reason. Use your head man! Armed strangers running around your land at night?

Double Naught Spy
January 11, 2012, 04:47 PM
I mean the simple signing of a WAIVER OR RELEASE prevents any invitee from suing or winning a lawsuit.

It may keep them from winning, but that doesn't mean there won't be a protracted lawsuit. Also, the wavier/release only takes care of the person who signs. What do you do about the neighbor whose prize cow just got shot by your waiver signing shooter? Your neighbor didn't sign. Your neighbor very well may sue you for letting the unsafe trigger happy buck fevered moron hunt on your property.

http://tribune-democrat.com/outdoors/x519131516/JOE-GORDEN-Public-access-in-limbo
http://blog.pennlive.com/lvbreakingnews/2008/01/measure_would_ban_rifle_huntin.html

I know, the landowner is only responsible for 10% which isn't much by percenage, but if it is a $5 million settlement, that is only a half million out of his pocket.

I always find this strange, how hunters confuse things for deer, like horses, horses with riders, or other livestock. In most of the incidents, the hunters are firing across some sort of property line. Here, Oree was shot from the neighbor's property, thought to be a deer. The hose was only valued a $50,000.
http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/aiken/2011-11-29/aiken-hunter-who-shot-horse-instead-deer-charged

I have posted on several such stories previously. Is your bank account and possibly your insurance going to be able to cover the damages caused to people, animals, or property off of your property by hunters you have allowed to hunt on your property? Do you know that the hunters you have using your property are really responsible?

This sort of thing is scary to me as a property owner. Except for the road, my property is surrounded by horse and cattle operations as well as by some very nice people. I understand these events don't happen often. There may be just a few document off property incidents resulting in property damage, injury, or death of people and/or animals, but I may not be able to afford it if it happens even once by a hunter on my property.

Art Eatman
January 11, 2012, 06:33 PM
Enuf. Starting to wander...

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