M1 Garand Explosion


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mamamia
January 3, 2012, 12:40 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn0KBzK2Kho&feature=player_embedded

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nathan
January 3, 2012, 01:04 AM
Hot load maybe ?

Nugilum
January 3, 2012, 01:37 AM
Thinkin' a sqib. AKA a .308" slug still sitting in the barrel.

WNTFW
January 3, 2012, 01:45 AM
It is hard to tell just from video/audio as to the cause. Recoil, muzzle band and ejection seemed ok on previous shot.

Hope the girl was OK.

WNTFW
January 3, 2012, 02:01 AM
You know it kind of looks like she might have had a FTFire. Then ejects the round and chambers another. If so the bullet could have been a squib. It is hard to tell if she took out a complete round or case only. It also looks like she might have just flicked the round back into the chamber.

Inebriated
January 3, 2012, 02:49 AM
I say Squib. You can watch her sort of flinch when it doesn't fire, she pulls the bolt and ejects the case, and fires again, causing the boom. And judging by the action and barrel separating, I'd say that the bullet wasn't far from the bore.

Definitely hope she's ok.

Tim the student
January 3, 2012, 03:12 AM
Wow. Hope that woman is ok.

I think squib too. Pics of the remains?

ETA - glad she is ok.

chris in va
January 3, 2012, 03:40 AM
Notice how she rode the bolt forward after the defective round? I'm thinking it fired out of battery. Witnessed a similar event at the range with an M1 carbine.

BTW looks like it was the clip she took out before riding it forward, hard to tell.

MistWolf
January 3, 2012, 07:53 AM
Too much damage for out of battery. My vote is a bullet lodged in the barrel from the case that mis-fired.

As soon as I saw her clear the mis-fired case, I knew the next round was going to be the explosion

ultradoc
January 3, 2012, 09:19 AM
oh my gosh. hope the gal is ok.

303tom
January 3, 2012, 11:16 AM
She commented that she thought it fired out of battery & she was fine other than some splinters and bruising........

nathan
January 3, 2012, 11:16 AM
Could be cast receiver by any chance ?

Averageman
January 3, 2012, 11:30 AM
That definatly looked like the cartridge that misfired left a bullet in the barrel. When she hand cycles the round out of the action and cycles the next round it is impossible to see the condition of the cartridge she ejected.
I would guess, the round had a primer, but little or no powder and left the bullet lodged in the barrel. In the heat of the moment, it didn't appear that she inspected the weapon or the expended cartridge closely.
That could have been much worse for her.

Tommygunn
January 3, 2012, 11:33 AM
Here's a comment posted in the original by the girl who was firing the Garand;




I was very lucky with the outcome. I have lots of splinters and bruising, but nothing broken. My left hand took the brunt of the blow to my wrist and palm of my hand. Still pretty painful, but I will be fine. Thanks for the concern.

arizonagirl24 2 hours ago
I am the person this happened to. The 7th round jammed, which is nothing unusual for this gun. It happens all the time. That is why I didn't really hesitate to shoot the final round. We were using newer ammo, so we don't think that's the problem. My brother has been looking at his M1, and we noticed it will still fire with the chamber not fully closed. The chamber can be open up to 1/2" and the weapon will still fire. We think that's what happend.

TwoWheelFiend
January 3, 2012, 11:38 AM
That was quite an impressive explosion. Poor old M1

MtnCreek
January 3, 2012, 11:43 AM
I assume M1's were designed to not fire out of battery when functioning properly, correct?

Jim Watson
January 3, 2012, 12:20 PM
A stuck bullet will normally rupture the barrel, not the action.

Cutting the gun in half like this is usually from a blown case head or a gross overload. I don't know what is meant by "newer ammo."

I don't know about "firing out of battery" which seems to be blamed for a lot of operator error. Several of the guns I have checked, the hammer will fall with the bolt out of battery but the firing pin was guarded or blocked so it would not actually FIRE. But then a misfit M1 firing pin will not necessarily be blocked. And a rifle with a chronic seventh round jam - a known fault of early Garands - might be out of spec in that area too.

BrocLuno
January 4, 2012, 01:22 PM
If it jams "all the time" and it was not taken care of, it's operator error right there :(

Jeez, folks, tune your rifles to work or don't play with them :banghead:

FlyinBryan
January 4, 2012, 02:50 PM
A stuck bullet will normally rupture the barrel, not the action.

Cutting the gun in half like this is usually from a blown case head or a gross overload. I don't know what is meant by "newer ammo."

I don't know about "firing out of battery" which seems to be blamed for a lot of operator error. Several of the guns I have checked, the hammer will fall with the bolt out of battery but the firing pin was guarded or blocked so it would not actually FIRE. But then a misfit M1 firing pin will not necessarily be blocked. And a rifle with a chronic seventh round jam - a known fault of early Garands - might be out of spec in that area too.

you think that a case head separation could cause all that? if so that is terrifying.

ive seen case heads seperating before but it was just a lot of smoke and fire @ the operator end of the rifle.

that is scary for sure.

SlamFire1
January 4, 2012, 05:49 PM
In theory, as published in a 1961 American Rifleman Magazine article, the hammer cannot touch the firing pin without the hammer nose entering a cam cut out under the bolt and rotating the bolt closed.

Inebriated
January 4, 2012, 05:54 PM
Well, glad she's ok.

P-32
January 4, 2012, 08:12 PM
Well, glad she's ok

Yes, absolutely glad she is OK. Too bad about the M-1 though.

Onmilo
January 4, 2012, 11:18 PM
That is the first M1 I have ever seen blow up in quite so dramatic a fashion!
They can handle a LOT of overload pressure and to blow one with enough force to split the stock apart takes some doing.

Glad to know the girl wasn't hurt worse than she was.

plexreticle
January 4, 2012, 11:38 PM
Wonder if this was a re-welded receiver.

Carolina Kalash
January 4, 2012, 11:41 PM
ruined a perfectly good M1 Garand...

Ridgerunner665
January 4, 2012, 11:58 PM
She did sorta "ride the bolt" closed...could have been out of battery.

DAdams
January 5, 2012, 10:30 AM
The chamber can be open up to 1/2" and the weapon will still fire. We think that's what happend.

Really? Is that a common possibility? Does that normally cause a problem because it doesn't sound like it was a problem until this event. What's up with that?

FlyinBryan
January 5, 2012, 02:29 PM
Really? Is that a common possibility? Does that normally cause a problem because it doesn't sound like it was a problem until this event. What's up with that?

not common at all. there are a couple of features designed into the garand that should make firing out of battery very difficult.

the end of the firing pin has a tang, the hammer end or the pin is shaped like an "L" and this must rotate with the bolt into alignment with a slot in the receiver framework to be allowed to move forward from the hammer strike.

another is that the hammer should not be able to actually reach the firing pin until the bolt has cammed into position.

i think the answer to what happened here lies in the question "what was removed with her left hand while she was holding the bolt/op rod back with her right immediately before the incident."

was it a unfired 7th round? or was it a spent empty case?

if it was the latter i think there was a bullet, the 7th, in the chamber throat

KDS
January 5, 2012, 03:35 PM
in any case its a good reminder. Always wear eye protection boys and girls!

AK103K
January 5, 2012, 04:11 PM
was it a unfired 7th round? or was it a spent empty case?

Apparently, it was a live round, as they posted this a little while ago....

"The 7th round was a live round. The M1 jammed like it often does. Instead of forcing that round into the chamber, I took it out and slammed the bolt forward. We are thinking the chamber did not close all the way. My brother's M1 will still fire that way."

From watching her let the bolt go, I wouldnt say she rode it all the way down, it looked like it traveled a bit before it closed. Even if it wasnt "closed" it probably would have been mostly closed and I dont think it would have come apart like it would if the bolt was say halfway open.

I think the real clues are, what is "newer" ammo, was it factory ammo or a reload, and what did the recovered piece of brass look like? There was a comment in there that it was new factory, and not reloads or surplus, but its confusing as to who posted it.

I had an M1 slamfire/fire out of battery on me a number of years ago. It was during a match and I was using issue LC ammo. My gun held together, for the most part (back of the receiver was blown off), but was trashed form the incident. The brass recovered from the detonation was only half a case, with the front part gone, which makes me think it went off while the bolt was still mostly "open". I did have a couple of "doubles" during the one rapid fire string just prior to the slow fire string, and when the brass was finally recovered, there were a couple of cases with the necks blown out somewhat, which I think indicates it was firing out of battery, but the bolt was almost locked up when it did.

carrierx
January 5, 2012, 04:13 PM
youch !

I kinda wonder why the 2nd round wouldn't just push out the first. I know they wont and its a VERY dangerous situation but, it would seem easier than exploding the barrel or what not.

Does the 2nd round for a super seal with the tail end of the first ?

I'm going to be very nervous with the yugo 8mm stuff this weekend after watching that.

LoonWulf
January 5, 2012, 04:40 PM
Im glad the injuries werent bad, they could have been.
Old rule applies, if something odd happens (light recoil, off sound, hangfire, no fire ETC.), even if "odd" happens regularly CHECK YOUR GUN. I can understand wanting to just go on with shooting especially if a rifle has a history of jamming, which should have also been looked at an hopefully corrected, but still stop, think, check, continue. You have to remember we ARE playing with things that generate pressures in the tens of thousands of psi. Ive seen a "low" pressure 3kpsi event nearly take some ones hand, please just be safe.

Carolina Kalash
January 5, 2012, 06:17 PM
in any case its a good reminder. Always wear eye protection boys and girls!
i'd be worried about my hands...

SlamFire1
January 6, 2012, 06:16 PM
Apparently the lady was not permanently hurt, thank goodness.

Do not expect the mechanically challenged to come up with a clear description of what failed. They will come up with explanations, because that is what people do, come up with theories of why things happen.

Does not mean the explanation is right.

You can retract a Garand Bolt about ½” , pull the trigger, and the hammer will fall. However the hammer nose has to engage the bolt cam before the hammer touches the firing pin.

The receiver bridge is a protective device, not 100% fail safe, but it is designed to keep the firing pin retracted during cam down. The firing pin can go fully forward once the bolt is rotated and the firing pin is aligned with the firing pin cut out on the receiver bridge.

Before then, the firing pin can still tap the primer, but the hammer is not pushing it forward.

Back in the day when the M1a was the rifle on the firing line, someone’s trigger job would go, the hammer would follow, and you would hear boom, boom, during rapid fire. The hammer was following the bolt down. I never saw an out of battery incident from a bad trigger job. The receiver bridge worked.

The only out of battery incidents I ever heard (and had!) were from sensitive primers. The bolt was moving forward, and before the bolt closed , just ahead of the receiver bridge, the firing pin tapped a sensitive primer and the cartridge went off before the lugs were engaged.
I think it is more likely that the lady had an overpressure incident.

ApacheCoTodd
January 6, 2012, 08:27 PM
I think it definitely had to do with riding the slide forward and no doubt component age/quality/spec after that. I'm betting she had "the perfect storm" of poor battery lock, worn/outa spec firing pin and possibly bolt specs as well.

I've spent years putting together as many true factory and armorer's specification tools/check blocks/dummy components and even given the inherent complexity of the M1 Garand, I'm still amazed at how many check tools there were for the myriad possibilities for that action to be out of spec - either through individual component dimensions or a combination of one or more conspiring to fail together.

Kush
January 6, 2012, 09:08 PM
To me it appears that the receiver and barrel stay attached to each other after it fails. Is it possible that the ammunition overloaded?

FlyinBryan
January 6, 2012, 09:24 PM
its not easy to actually overload 30-06 ammo for the m1 if the correct powder is used, at least not to the point of causing this kind of explosion.

it would be very easy with the wrong powder though

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