A question on a nonconventional loading tecnique


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Bucksnot
January 3, 2012, 09:01 PM
Hi all! I am new here and have a question on a reloading technique. I have heard of people loading bullets backwards into cases so the base faces upwards. As I understand it this is mostly done for subsonic loads.

My question is, could someone take a round of military surplus fmj .223, use a bullet puller to separate the components, and use a hammer to tap the bullet back in backwards? I do not have any kind of reloading equipment at this time but plan on getting some. I realize the bullet would not be accurate this way but just want to make maybe 3 or 5 of these and shoot them into packed magazines to test expansion.

Thanks, Bucksnot

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Mccarty
January 3, 2012, 10:07 PM
I would highly recommend not trying that. How could 3-5 rounds be worth gravely injuring yourself or others. You will seriously run the risk of increasing pressures doing this. What on earth are you trying to achieve? This will certainly not yield a subsonic round.
You mentioned you did not have any equipment, so my guess is that you are not a very experienced reloader - that and the fact that you are seriously considering this. If you are interested in reloading, please, take the more traditional route and do it correctly and safely.

FROGO207
January 3, 2012, 10:13 PM
Do you have a vise?? that would be the preferred way to re assemble the round. Lacking that a C clamp would do in a pinch. You do not really want to take a chance of hitting a sharp blow to the primer by mistake. Yes you could do it but bullet to neck tension would be poor and accuracy will suffer unless really close. Would I recommend doing it the way you wanted to first?? NO Do you know anyone that reloads. If they do reload 223 then they might help you out and help you do it safely. You will most likely need to single feed the rounds also or they will jam. Also note above posters warning about pressure problems.

Greg Mercurio
January 3, 2012, 10:14 PM
Preset your cell phone to 911 so a single key will summon help. If you can anyway. You asked. It is ill-advised.

Tim the student
January 3, 2012, 10:16 PM
I'd really recommend you not try anything like that. It is a bad idea for a number of reasons, especially if you have no idea about reloading.

Bucksnot
January 3, 2012, 10:34 PM
Thanks for the replies. Uh, yeah I was thinking this wasn't the greatest idea but thought maybe some of you may have done it.

Mccarty, you are correct, I am not very knowledgeable about reloading. I was going to see how this expanded, what with having almost a full caliber of exposed lead. I was not trying to get a subsonic load. I was simply stating that I have heard of others that have done it (who happened to be loading subsonic loads. It was supposed to balance better or something.)

I don't know of any reloaders, so I guess I will just buy some stuff and follow established data instead of trying this.

Thanks anyways, Bucksnot

Oklacoyotekiller
January 3, 2012, 10:41 PM
????!!!! Boy sure has a lot of deep fork in him! if you do this make sure someone films it. i like to watch that show worlds dumbest. sure it will make the cut

Mccarty
January 3, 2012, 10:43 PM
Glad to hear that you are thinking otherwise. Just get into the reloading part slowly and gain some knowledge and experience. Experimentation wil come

rfwobbly
January 3, 2012, 10:54 PM
While I salute your very inquisitive nature, I can also think of multiple ways to get into trouble with this. Reloading is very much like driving a car: It's generally safe if you stay in your lane and stay focused. What you are suggesting is akin to driving in the on-coming traffic's lane.

The first rule of reloading and living to tell about it is this: Don't believe most of what you read on the internet.

Bucksnot
January 3, 2012, 10:55 PM
Oklacoyotekiller, I guess you didn't read my last post clearly enough to see that I decided against it. Who's the dumb one now? I was asking this because I didn't know. If I knew I wouldn't have asked.

rfwobbly
January 3, 2012, 11:01 PM
Excuse me, sir, but several of us were typing at the same time. Your attitude seems to be lower than High Road expectations. Good day.

Oklacoyotekiller
January 3, 2012, 11:20 PM
amen rfwobbly. on a more serious note. please don't try anything like this. if it sounds like a bad idea it probly is

d2wing
January 3, 2012, 11:57 PM
A lot of people suggest things that are not good ideas. This is one of them. The front of the bullet is designed to emgage the lands and may have exposed lead. The base is designed to to withstand the pressure of the propellent. I see no good reason to attempt to reverse any bullet at all under any circumstances. No benefit and lots of potential danger.

gamestalker
January 4, 2012, 12:38 AM
There are several things that are very risky with that idea. First is you would guessing what OAL will accomplish this without pressures going sky high. This is going to be especially difficult since the backward facing bullet is going to contact the lands unless the nose is seated much deeper than the base was, which is what will deffinitely increase pressures unpredictably. Also is the flat bases would, now the leading end, is not going to enter tha lands as easily and will likely shear off some jacket and might also add to increased pressures due to the increased resistence and delay when slamming into the lands.The second problem is trying to re-seat them using a hammer without detonation them. And the third issue is pulling them without the use of a kinetic puller or other tool made for this without destroying the bullet. And the forth problem is how to plan on re-sizing the necks after pulling them.
I wouldn't do this unless I had the proper stuff and advanced knowledge, and a test barrel that can safely absord the excessive pressures during testing. A transducer would also be a nice tool to determine what level of pressures are occuring. With as much altering and developing you have in mind, it would be to your advantage to invest in at least the very basic reloading tools. Lee makes a hammer and die kit that will reload effectively. Though it is a slow and combersome relaoding set up available from Lee, they do work and are very inexpensive to purchase.

35 Whelen
January 4, 2012, 01:21 AM
Bucksnot, don't let anyone dash your inquisitive nature. It never hurts to ask. Judging from the answers so far, no one has actually tried this and they're all guessing as to the outcome.

I did it when I was a kid for no good reason other than like you, I was curious. Seems like I might have read about this technique in one of my Dad's old reloading books or magazines, and that set my wheels to turning. I reloaded a few rounds with the bullets seated backwards and fired them. (If I remember correctly it was in a 270 Winchester) No harm, no foul. I and my rifles are still intact and all that was lost was a few good bullets.

I also loaded some jacketed bullets backwards in one of my .357's as I read this was a good way to remove lead from a barrel. It worked great, but I later discovered that the same bullet loaded traditionally worked just as well.:banghead:

All that being said, I wouldn't reverse a bullet without reducing the load which of course would require handloading equipment. In fact any attempt at this should only be tried with handloading equipment and someone who knows how to use it.

Here are some folks who have acutally done it too
:
Shooting Bullets Backwards (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot50.htm)

Seating Bullets Backwards (http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2886596/Re_Seating_Bullets_Backwards)

Backwards rifle bullets (http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=69131)

Bullet Loaded Backwards (http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/archive/index.php?t-5096.html)

I'm going to go get my fire extinguisher as I'm sure some Old Hens are about to flame me!:D

35W

gamestalker
January 4, 2012, 09:52 AM
Na, no flaming here 35Whelen. We just don't want to hear of someone getting hurt while attempting to redesign a safe and functional cartridge.

I certainly tried risky things, like building exploding arrows. They worked very well, but one of them detonated before it left the arrow rest. But I still have one good eye left, and a few fingers too! But seriously, it did det. before leaving the rest, and I ended up with a bloody hand and face, no missing eye's or finger's though. I didn't stop there, and did eventually designe an arrow that would not possibly det. until impact with it's target. I still use that design for archery jack rabbit hunting.

Renigeid
January 4, 2012, 10:18 AM
DO NOT do this!!!!!!!! Anything else typed I am sure will be a waste. Jim

res45
January 4, 2012, 12:05 PM
I'm going to go get my fire extinguisher as I'm sure some Old Hens are about to flame me!:DWell one thing is for certain you and Elmer Keith will be in good company since back in his day he did that quiet often during the depression when SP bullets weren't available using surplus FMJ bullets loaded backwards to take big game.

It's a pretty common practice among 30 cal. subsonic shooters using the 168 gr. BTHP bullet. Accuracy is good out to about 200 yds. and terminal performance is enhanced by the flat base and exposed lead core. Personally I haven't tried it as of yet in my subsonic rifle loads since I have a good supply of lighter weight cast SWC pistol bullets and a spit of Bullseye that will accomplish the same task.

All that being said, I wouldn't reverse a bullet without reducing the load which of course would require handloading equipment. In fact any attempt at this should only be tried with handloading equipment and someone who knows how to use it.+1 couldn't agree more on that.

beatledog7
January 4, 2012, 12:50 PM
I see another "here, hold by beer" moment on the horizon...

snuffy
January 4, 2012, 01:15 PM
Whatever happened to the often used quote,"THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A STUPID QUESTION?" Buckshot didn't know so he asked. Gently saying "no it's not at all a good thing to try." Coming from me, some may be surprised that I would say that, I tend to call 'em as I see them.

It's a pretty common practice among 30 cal. subsonic shooters using the 168 gr. BTHP bullet. Accuracy is good out to about 200 yds. and terminal performance is enhanced by the flat base and exposed lead core.

A BTHP bullet is usually a match bullet IF it has a hollow point, the base is closed. If it is a military match bullet, then the point is solid and the base open. Also, a BTHP is a BOAT TAIL, not flat based.

The open base of a FMJ bullet may expand, or it most likely won't. It LOOKS like a monster hollow point, BUT it has no internal skiving that would create a mushroom effect. People don't know it but all soft point bullets have grooves on the inside of the front of the jacket, skiving, to allow the jacket to rupture and peel back. What really happens is the flat base on the run-of-the-mill FMJ is what produces shock to cleanly kill game animals. It's called meplat, and is commonly referred to in SWC pistol bullets. The wider the meplat, the more shock that's produced.

kingmt
January 4, 2012, 01:35 PM
I'm no expert since I've only done it a few hundred times. I used jacketed in both .223 & .30-06.

I found that in most of the charge weights the backwards bullets produced tighter groups. In all they produced about 300fps more then there equal. The higher fps is more then likly from less case volume. I measured the difference but I can't remember what the difference was.

Bucksnot
January 4, 2012, 03:19 PM
Thanks for all the replies. It was good to here from some people who have actually done this. I also thank you for your encouragement to keep an open mind!

Oklacoyotekiller, I am sorry for my response to you. I was a bit out of line but also think you worded your reply a bit harsh. It came out sounding like you were calling me unintelligent. Anyways, lets forget about it.

That being said, I still will forget about doing this.

Oklacoyotekiller
January 4, 2012, 03:39 PM
no problem. got pretty thick skin. my biggest problem was the method of reloading. hammers and loaded ammo probly shouldn't be used in same sentence. lol. get a reload kit. not that expensive. use a lee kit I've had about 20 years. works great

Metal Tiger
January 4, 2012, 03:49 PM
Hey Bucksnot,
Welcome to THE HIGH ROAD. Good job there. Hope to hear from you some more when you get your reloading gear.
Cheers

kingmt
January 4, 2012, 05:26 PM
reminds me of the acme rocket testing.

mdi
January 4, 2012, 06:50 PM
Sounds like you pretty much got your answer. I'd say if you had a few thousand reloaded rounds under your belt, understood how a pointy bullet works in a chamber (ogive, throat, lands), understood pressures vs case capacity, etc, go ahead and try it. I personally haven't tried that (but I've done it with handgun reloads) but I think accuracy would be way off and feeding in a semi-auto prolly wouldn't work...

CMV
January 4, 2012, 07:24 PM
I'm curios so if you do it, post a follow up with the results.

I think you'd still get fragmentation instead of expansion unless you got really reduced velocity from seating it backwards.

kingmt
January 4, 2012, 07:42 PM
There is a thread floating around here where I posted the results when I tested some groups with 30-06.

David Wile
January 4, 2012, 08:38 PM
Hey Buckshot,

Bullets certainly can be pulled from cartridges, and they can also be loaded backwards, but doing so is not as simple as it may seem. Just pulling a bullet from a surplus 30-06 round and sticking it back in the neck backwards could result in some very destructive results. You might be able to fire such a round with no destructive results, but you just do not know until you try it. A couple of other folks have mentioned you might load a bullet backwards but you should reduce the load, and that is very sound advice.

My dad used to get me to load regular spitzer bullets backwards for him to use in his 30-06 for turkey hunting. I worked up a "backwards" load for him that was safe to shoot, but they were terrible for accuracy. I tried to get him to use a very hard cast bullet or a full metal jacket bullet instead, but somebody had told him about the great idea of shooting regular spitzer hunting bullets backwards, and he would not listen to anything I might suggest. The only thing that finally deterred him from using bullet backwards was when he tried shooting them at the range and could not hit an 8X11 piece of paper at 25 yards.

If you really want to try backwards bullets, I would suggest you put the project on a back burner until you have a good deal of experience reloading and understanding the mechanics of what makes modern cartridges work in a firearm. In my previous paragraph, I mentioned that I "worked up" a load for my dad. The term "worked up" probably does not mean anything to you at this point, but it really is very important in the craft of reloading ammunition. What it means is that I started with a bullet of a specific weight and used what the reloading manuals would consider a minimal powder charge to see if the load would be safe. As you "work up" a load, you would increase the powder in subsequent charges and test them to insure their safety as well as accuracy. At some point while working up a load, you will start getting signs of higher pressure, and you need to know enough to stop. More often than not, best accuracy loads are not at the top end of powder charges for a particular bullet, and those are the things one determines while "working up" a load.

I have always like to experiment with things including reloading activities. However, one should always recognize his limitations and not do things that one does not have the knowledge, skill, and ability to do. I know I have my limitations, and I try to recognize and stay within them. From what you have stated, it seems to me that you need to learn about reloading and leave testing backwards bullets for a future time when you are better equipped to do it safely. When you do get to the point where you are ready to try reloading bullets backward, however, remember that several of us did tell you that accuracy is not one of the best things to expect in them.

Here's hoping you have as much enjoyment at the reloading bench as I have had over the many years I have been doing this.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

atonguis
January 4, 2012, 09:04 PM
Omg, rofl :uhoh: beatledog7

kingmt
January 4, 2012, 09:59 PM
Dave

You must have done something very wrong. I shoot them at 100yds & get better groups with them backwards then forward. I load pellet in a .223 & can get about 2" & better groups at 25yds.

35 Whelen
January 4, 2012, 10:23 PM
I'm no expert since I've only done it a few hundred times. I used jacketed in both .223 & .30-06.

I found that in most of the charge weights the backwards bullets produced tighter groups. In all they produced about 300fps more then there equal. The higher fps is more then likly from less case volume. I measured the difference but I can't remember what the difference was.

This is the kind of reply I like to see; actual experience. Not guessing, nail-biting panic.

35W

Hondo 60
January 4, 2012, 10:27 PM
Bucksnot

You showed good sense by coming here to ask your question.
That's exactly the type of person that makes a good reloader.
Think outside the average person's box, but don't be afraid to ask questions.

If you're interested in the reloading process, I would strongly recommend you read a reloading manual.
Lyman's 49th Reloading Handbook, The ABCs of Reloading or Modern Reloading are 3 pretty good books.

If you don't want to spend the money on one, how about checking with the library?
That's what I did & I've since reloaded well over 100,000 rounds.
(and I still have all 10 fingers & 7 manuals) :D

NeuseRvrRat
January 4, 2012, 10:35 PM
if you have to ask...

David Wile
January 4, 2012, 11:05 PM
Hey Kingmt,

I really do not want to appear disagreeable in my response to your comments, so I hope what follows is taken in the spirit of friendly discussion.

First I would submit for consideration that bullets are designed to "fly" through the air efficiently, and I would also submit they do not fly well backwards. Yes, I know from first hand experience that wadcutter pistol bullets do quite well both coming and going. However, the good results achieved by wadcutters is pretty much confined to short distances. I doubt very much if anyone would suggets that wadcutters would be effective at 100 yards and beyond.

Accordingly, I would target my remarks to rifle bullets. In the case of rifle bullets flying forward or backwards, I would point out that I have never seen any rifle competition where competitors were shooting bullets backwards. Most of the bullets I have seen used are Match quality bullets that all weigh virtually the same. They are also usually some form of boat tail rear with a spitzer or similarly shaped nose. I have never seen anyone competing with bullets loaded backwards.

I do not know what you do to get better results from bullets loaded backwards, but I have never seen such results duplicated at competition matches.

Yes, one can shoot patched round balls very effectively at 100 yards. But again I would point out that patched round balls do not fly as well as modern bullets and are accordingly also not used in modern competitions.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

35 Whelen
January 4, 2012, 11:44 PM
Hey Kingmt,


Yes, one can shoot patched round balls very effectively at 100 yards. But again I would point out that patched round balls do not fly as well as modern bullets and are accordingly also not used in modern competitions.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

Maybe the round balls would shoot better if they were loaded backwards...:neener:

35W

David Wile
January 4, 2012, 11:57 PM
Hey 35,

Now that was a topper. It did bring a big smile to me.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

kingmt
January 5, 2012, 11:18 AM
I related true results not what I though would happen. I tried this because of another thread I read on here. I have read alot about others doing it with the same results.

My 2 bits tho: I believe that the reason they get better groups is air drag. If you get close to the back of a truck going 70mph it whips you all over the place. You wouldn't notice it at 35mph. In a plane the tail is what directs the path of flight. If you look at the back of a FMJ it isn't straight. It is concaved & I believe it causes a twisting in the air flow that also causes the bullet to move in the same direction. With the point as the tail there is little area for drag to disturbed.

Now for more truth: I have no idea why because it is outside of my knowage & that is just how my brain reasons it.

kingmt
January 5, 2012, 11:27 AM
Maybe the round balls would shoot better if they were loaded backwards...:neener:

35W
I don't shoot much round ball but those that I know that do tell me to load with the uneven casting mark forward for better accuracy. I assume because of drag.

Greg Mercurio
January 5, 2012, 12:44 PM
This has been a really enjoyable thread, but let's not forget the original post: No equipment, I heard, hammer. Lots of red flags flying in the OP.

So if you want to take the high road and make a 3 paragraph explanation of why this is a bad idea, so be it. I prefer to be blunt with potential Murphy and Darwin award winners. Hats off to the OP. At least he didn't post: "What went wrong here" while typing with one hand.

Now, had this been a treatise on the merits of working up loads with bullets loaded backwards it woul be a different thread indeed. And I wouldn't have said a word because I come here to learn from people who actually do practice what they preach. :D

Oklacoyotekiller
January 6, 2012, 12:21 AM
no offence to anyone here, but i think everyone but a few missed what the real danger of what was suggested. its not a question of whether or not the bullets will function backwards or not. the method of pulling and reloading with a hammer is what concerned me.

kingmt
January 6, 2012, 01:29 AM
It is just your concern wasn't worth discussing. Those bullets would reseat so easy that there would be no concern. It bet they would push back in with fingers. I assume he wasn't going to swing hard enough to drive a nail.

snuffy
January 6, 2012, 02:06 AM
Those eggsurts here that are getting their panties in a wad about using a hammer to assemble live rifle rounds, have apparently never used a lee hand loader, sometimes referred to as a classic loader. Indeed a hammer is used to seat a bullet,AND to seat a primer!:uhoh::what::eek:

A bunch of fraidy cats guessing about stuff just clouds the water.

I loaded some 35 cal pistol bullets backwards in a 35 Remington, a Marlin levergun. They worked okay, but would not feed from the magazine. They were also not very accurate. Made nice round holes in the target though. This was many years ago, like 30. Reason? To see if it could be done. Never again!

Greg Mercurio
January 6, 2012, 10:45 AM
kingmt, snuffy: Really? Look at the original post again. .223, pull the bullet rotate, pound it back in with a hammer. So, I guess the crimp would disappear and the neck would be resized by magic? Come on.

The OP posted something that was ill-advised. Some people here replied in a manner consistent with safer than sorry.

My apologies if that approach is inconsistent with your personal preferences and life philosophy. :banghead:

kingmt
January 6, 2012, 11:50 AM
They replied was information on a topic they didn't understand. Nothing wrong with playing it safe. Nothing wrong with advice to play it safe.

But when the bullet is pulled it will iron out the crimp & the neck will not have the same amount of press the second time. Without resizeing the neck they would pop back in without much press to even hold the bullet in place. Steel would retain more of the press then brass. The bullet would probably even be a little undersized. This is the reality.

I will point out that it wouldn't work very well in a auto loader. This has already been said but to play it safe I'll repeat it.

Mccarty
January 7, 2012, 12:00 AM
Snuffy - you brought the lee dies into the equation - he said he did not have any reloading equipment and was going to use the hammer itself to seat the bullet.

Kingmt - I think your comment about most everyone here not knowing what they're talking about is a not entirely accurate - many here understand the mechanics and physics of reloading and many here have experimented with numerous things regarding reloading. We were simply trying to steer a young man ( a guess on my part of his age) from doing something completely foolish with no prior experience or knowledge. I think he responded well.

I personally do not doubt that a bullet can be fired when loaded backwards, I would just never go about it in the way the OP described or recommend that anyone else try this method.

That being said, I have taken the time to pull apart an xm193 round without a bullet puller, put the powder back in it and seated the bullet in the manner described. If you want to put it in your gun and pull the trigger I would be happy to film it and settle the issue once and for all. Just throwing it out there

kingmt
January 7, 2012, 12:34 AM
You rewarded what I said to sound different then context that I said it in. I know there is knowageable people here. I stay out of most of the threads because ether anything I could offer has already been said or others have more knowage then I do on a subject. There is those that just scream danger danger tho.

As for the round you put back together. I wonder why you think it is unsafe. If your unsure of it I'm not going to shoot it.

Before I got a shell holder for 2 of my cartridges I put a punch in the case & beat the primers in against the wood burner. No problems.

Oklacoyotekiller
January 7, 2012, 01:18 AM
yes lee makes loaders you beat with a hammer. i won't use em. have personally seen primers discharge with these. all Im sayin is its probly not a good idea for a novice to experiment in this way with no equipment, no knowledge of what can happen when you make small changes to an otherwise safe load. we should be encouraging him to get the proper equipment and study a load manual before attempting anything.

eldon519
January 7, 2012, 03:52 AM
Bucksnot,

Here is a good write up with pictures of a guy who did it to test accuracy as well as shooting them into water jugs.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot50.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot32.htm

Box o' Truth is a great website. It's kind of like Mythbusters for gun stuff.

Kernel
January 7, 2012, 06:11 PM
If you ever did try to develop a subsonic load with a backward bullet you'd want to use a much faster powder, anyway. The powder used in the original cartridge wouldn't be appropriate. There's more to it than just using less powder in the case.

Jim Watson
January 7, 2012, 06:34 PM
The BoT agrees with the tests run by the NRA about 50 years earlier.

I am also a little nervous about a novice doing it with no tools and no prior experience.
But he can probably get away with it.

joed
January 8, 2012, 05:16 PM
It's one thing to do this with pistol ammo but you have to remember pistol ammo is about as aerodynamic as a brick.

I wouldn't even think of trying this with a rifle bullet. Anyone that has is playing with fire.

kingmt
January 8, 2012, 09:00 PM
Why do people keep argueing points when they don't know what they are talking about & it has already been discussed by those with experience.

Oklacoyotekiller
January 8, 2012, 09:35 PM
well kingmt, i guess if you consider beating primers in with a punch and a wood stove experience, then you are the most experienced one here. ;-)

Clark
January 8, 2012, 10:32 PM
I have shot 30-30 brass in a 303 Savage with the bullet in backwards.

Those were some REALLY lousy groups.

kingmt
January 8, 2012, 11:09 PM
well kingmt, i guess if you consider beating primers in with a punch and a wood stove experience, then you are the most experienced one here. ;-)
Yes I do. It has barring on this subject as well.

You are offering nothing of value to this thread. All you do is give insults.

I am offering information from what I know not what I think. I don't want a good thread ruined by trash that offers no truth.

This isn't a new thing. It has been done for years.

Oklacoyotekiller
January 8, 2012, 11:41 PM
yes i understand bullets have been loaded backwards for years. i also understand that as long as reloading has been around, people have been doing stupid stuff that blows guns up. and if i recall, you were the one insulting people. we just don't want anyone hurt. if you think that's insulting or not relevent, them you are the one with nothing to add.

35 Whelen
January 9, 2012, 12:11 AM
I'd say to anyone who's never tried this that your input is nothing more than opinion. There are several of us here who have tried it (with proper reloading tools of course) and all was good...no harm, no foul.

35W

Oklacoyotekiller
January 9, 2012, 12:22 AM
thanks 35w. nope. haven't loaded rifle bullets backwards. few hbwc in 38 special though.

kingmt
January 9, 2012, 08:07 AM
"well kingmt, i guess if you consider beating primers in with a punch and a wood stove experience, then you are the most experienced one here. ;-)"
If that wasn't ment as a insult then please explain.

"????!!!! Boy sure has a lot of deep fork in him! if you do this make sure someone films it. i like to watch that show worlds dumbest. sure it will make the cut"
This also seems like a insult to me.

I was unable to find the post that had any knowage in them. Will you point them out?

"can't fix stupid"- Ron White
Oklacoyotekiller
I agree.

i seen in other threads a post or two that you have been loading for 20 or so years so I would reason that you have some knowage that will be useful in the form. Every time I have said something about knowage in this thread I have only been speaking about this thread.

With that all said let me add welcome to the form, I like the 6mm 65gr bullet also, & there is a way to make the 243 more economic for powder.

Oklacoyotekiller
January 9, 2012, 12:00 PM
thanks for the welcome. yes i said that. also told him wanted him to be safe. already sold my 243 but thanks. want to try something different anyway. 6mm tcu looks pretty good. got lots of 223 brass. although bullberry looks pretty cool. sorry bout some of the remarks. just think safety should be the first priority for someone new to reloading. that being said, what's your ideas on 243? probly get another later on. seem to always go back to it. hard to beat for long range yotes.

chrt396
January 9, 2012, 04:56 PM
???

chrt396
January 9, 2012, 05:16 PM
cfr

chrt396
January 9, 2012, 05:19 PM
????!!!! Boy sure has a lot of deep fork in him! if you do this make sure someone films it. i like to watch that show worlds dumbest. sure it will make the cut
Dumb would be "NOT ASKING!". He (OP) did ask..so his qualifications for the show are not sufficient! Give him credit for asking!! It's your job to educate!

chrt396
January 9, 2012, 05:23 PM
Hey Buckshot,

Bullets certainly can be pulled from cartridges, and they can also be loaded backwards, but doing so is not as simple as it may seem. Just pulling a bullet from a surplus 30-06 round and sticking it back in the neck backwards could result in some very destructive results. You might be able to fire such a round with no destructive results, but you just do not know until you try it. A couple of other folks have mentioned you might load a bullet backwards but you should reduce the load, and that is very sound advice.

My dad used to get me to load regular spitzer bullets backwards for him to use in his 30-06 for turkey hunting. I worked up a "backwards" load for him that was safe to shoot, but they were terrible for accuracy. I tried to get him to use a very hard cast bullet or a full metal jacket bullet instead, but somebody had told him about the great idea of shooting regular spitzer hunting bullets backwards, and he would not listen to anything I might suggest. The only thing that finally deterred him from using bullet backwards was when he tried shooting them at the range and could not hit an 8X11 piece of paper at 25 yards.

If you really want to try backwards bullets, I would suggest you put the project on a back burner until you have a good deal of experience reloading and understanding the mechanics of what makes modern cartridges work in a firearm. In my previous paragraph, I mentioned that I "worked up" a load for my dad. The term "worked up" probably does not mean anything to you at this point, but it really is very important in the craft of reloading ammunition. What it means is that I started with a bullet of a specific weight and used what the reloading manuals would consider a minimal powder charge to see if the load would be safe. As you "work up" a load, you would increase the powder in subsequent charges and test them to insure their safety as well as accuracy. At some point while working up a load, you will start getting signs of higher pressure, and you need to know enough to stop. More often than not, best accuracy loads are not at the top end of powder charges for a particular bullet, and those are the things one determines while "working up" a load.

I have always like to experiment with things including reloading activities. However, one should always recognize his limitations and not do things that one does not have the knowledge, skill, and ability to do. I know I have my limitations, and I try to recognize and stay within them. From what you have stated, it seems to me that you need to learn about reloading and leave testing backwards bullets for a future time when you are better equipped to do it safely. When you do get to the point where you are ready to try reloading bullets backward, however, remember that several of us did tell you that accuracy is not one of the best things to expect in them.

Here's hoping you have as much enjoyment at the reloading bench as I have had over the many years I have been doing this.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile
Great response Dave!! Good man!

kingmt
January 10, 2012, 02:38 PM
Here is a related thread www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=597600

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