surplus 7.62x54r russian crap


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nuggetattack
January 3, 2012, 10:29 PM
I hope I'm not repeating something covered from another thread but I recently purchased 100 rounds of russian surplus 7.62x54r ammo from ammunitiontogo.com for my new mosin nagant 91-30. The website claimed it came from one of those 440 round cans I just didn't feel like buying that much at the time. The ammo itself is very light and when i shake the rounds it sounds like a maraca so i can tell there is a good amount of empty space inside the case not filled with powder. Also, when fired the recoil is fairly light and the spent casing doesn't come out hot but almost room temperature. Is this just normal for commie ammo or did I get ripped? I feel like spending the extra dough next time and buying modern loads from Tula or Brown Bear or something. Thanks.

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Dorkfish88
January 3, 2012, 10:31 PM
it's just old ammo, as long as your not getting squib loads or hangfires, i don't see what the problem is...

Jeff F
January 3, 2012, 10:34 PM
All the 7.62x54R surplus I have shot, maybe 300 rounds, barked with authority and thumped my shoulder and the muzzle blast and flash was awesome.

Cecil Sharps
January 3, 2012, 10:36 PM
your prolly shooting the lightly loaded for machine gun use 762x54.

jmstevens2
January 3, 2012, 10:38 PM
I vaguely recall something about training ammo that has a hollow bullet and low power. You may have veen ripped off, or sold lesser ammo. Get a spam can, they are cheap enough, just make sure you get a spam can opener..

nuggetattack
January 3, 2012, 10:57 PM
I don't think the bullets are hollow cause i squeezed the crap out of one with vice grips and it didn't collapse or anything. I'm starting to think it could be light loads made for a PKM or something like Cecil suggested. I'll just buy a box of two spam cans next time from another site or something and shoot the rest of what I have off in the desert at some rocks or something. I am a little worried about a possible hang fire from bad quality loose packed ammo but I'll take the chance.

firesky101
January 3, 2012, 11:06 PM
Are the cases brass or copper washed steel? If brass run far far away bulgarian ammo is downright dangerous. I shot 5 rounds of it before i dissasembled it for components. Stuck my bolt so bad i had to use a mallet, and split cases.:cuss:

T Bran
January 3, 2012, 11:09 PM
If you dont see an impact down range be sure to check for a stuck bullet before firing another round. As for hang fires just keep it pointed down range for a few before ejecting any duds.
Stay safe.

Dr T
January 3, 2012, 11:11 PM
From the Ammunition to Go Site:

"This is original Russian military 7.62x54R 148gr. Silver Tip steel core ammo. This ammo was manufactured in the 70's in Russia. It was sealed in a 440 round sealed tin. This ammo contains a silver tip steel core FMJ bullet. This ammo is corrosive and has a copper washed steel case and a berdan primer. The case neck and the primer are sealed for moisture protection. It comes packed in 20rd. military packs, 440rds. per sealed spam can."

A description of the ballistics can be found at

http://www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo.htm

Due to the light bullet and relatively low (2600 fps) velocity, the recoil is relatively mild.

The question is: How good was the accuracy?

nuggetattack
January 3, 2012, 11:28 PM
The ammo is identical to the description from ammunitiontogo that Dr T quoted was not silver tipped but normal FMJ with copper washed steel casing because i bought it a month or two ago and they had different ammo in stock. I can't say anything about the accuracy because when I shot it last it was midnight newyears eve and i just aimed into a hillside to make noise. Maybe I'll give an update in a few days when i get to the range.

mg.mikael
January 3, 2012, 11:37 PM
I can't say anything about the accuracy because when I shot it last it was midnight newyears eve and i just aimed into a hillside to make noise.

Really?! Guns aren't for noise, if you want noise just get some firecrackers or something. Don't be irresponsible and shoot rounds just to make noise at night, that's downright dangerous.

nuggetattack
January 3, 2012, 11:44 PM
We can't buy good fireworks legally in California mg.mikael, I get what your saying but there was no alcohol involved (surprisingly for newyears) and we had a very safe visible hillside to shoot into. I am always pretty paranoid around guns because as you all know there is no forgiveness with mistakes with firearms.

nathan
January 3, 2012, 11:47 PM
They arent crap at all. They go bang and gets the job done. Its just not quality metal vs the brass we see as quality.

Shadow 7D
January 4, 2012, 12:35 AM
Got to Mosinnagant.net
or 7.62r.net and check out the ammo ID pages, should clear it up
Also, silvertip or properly LPS was just copper washed (unpainted) once the heavy balls were mostly phased out (60's-70's)

Member

your prolly shooting the lightly loaded for machine gun use 762x54.
Buddy that there is some of the WORSE info I've heard lately

there IS a MACHINEGUN round that is dangerous to Semi's in x54r, and suggested NOT to be used in the MN, but you can identify it by the base bevel.

In 1930 the Soviet D heavy ball weighing 11,8 grams (182 grains) was adopted and produced along with the Type L. In the same year the B-30 armor piercing and T-30 tracer bullets were adopted and began production. The B-32 armor piercing incendiary followed shortly, but the B-30 continued production into the late 1930s. In 1930 the case head was changed from a rounded shape to a bevel and tombac jacketed bullets began to replace the cupro-nickel bullets in the early 1930s. Copper washed steel cases made an appearance in 1934 being first used with the special purpose ShKAS aircraft machine gun cartridges including the new PZ exploding bullet. However, brass cases were also used for ShKAS cartridges and still used at some factories for certain loads until the '50s and even beyond for specialty ammunition.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmoID.htm

Shkas Machine gun rounds

From 1939 through 1945 7.62x54R ammunition was specially loaded for the Shkas aircraft machine gun. This ammunition was loaded to high pressures and could be dangerious if fired in rifles. To differentiate Shkas ammunition from standard rifle ammunition, the Cyrillic letter sh was added to the headstamp and the primer was colored red. In addition, the Shkas round has a slightly sharper taper to the base of the cartridge. The majority will be loaded with API, APIT and Exploding bullets. Do not confuse the 1954 "E" date code with the Shkas headstamp. The symbols used are similar. Shkas rounds will always have a WWII era date code and the letter sh will be the third code on the headstamp.

From MN.net

willypete
January 4, 2012, 12:58 AM
Really?! Guns aren't for noise, if you want noise just get some firecrackers or something. Don't be irresponsible and shoot rounds just to make noise at night, that's downright dangerous.

He said he was firing into a hillside. That's an acceptable backstop, even for FMJ rifle ammo.

If guns aren't for noise, you must either fire long barreled .22s or own a lot of tax stamps.



OP, get a chronograph. Or a bullet puller and a scale. That's the best way you could figure out the specs on this ammo you're shooting.

The 91/30 is a fairly big rifle with a really long barrel, both of which combine to reduce recoil and report, even from such a hoss cartridge as 7.62x54r. A lot of the surplus 7.62x54r (other calibers in surplus, too) I've shot will have loose powder inside. One round of ammo doesn't weight that much in the hand.

If you want a really objective comparison of the ammo, you really ought to do as I suggested and use a chronograph and a scale, or find a buddy who has one and borrow them.

The Sarge
January 4, 2012, 07:00 AM
Curious what ammotogo said when you called them?

Tempest 455
January 4, 2012, 08:22 AM
The Russian surplus (and most of the others at least in my rifles) are more accurate than the Brown Bear crap.

Cecil Sharps
January 4, 2012, 08:40 AM
My bad. The psl isn't a machine gun. Itsa sdm.

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