Gun Bubble? Will the rabid demand for firearms level off?


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Ernie Mccracken
January 4, 2012, 01:23 AM
I don't know what it says about our country's future when during a time of record high unemployment, thousands of jobs leaving the country every day, and possibly the worst economic outlook in history - the gun shops are absolutely packed with customers clamoring for guns like they're the last wonka bars. Another thread, I suppose.

Over the holidays, I planned to expand my collection with 3-4 new purchases. As you can probably guess by my tone, I completely struck out and have given up on the idea for the time being. I'd rather just wait this craziness out.

I went to Cabela's twice, but left without getting near the counter. 2-3 people deep for the entire length of their display cases. The local places were totally cleaned out except for bread and butter stuff at full MSRP. I was told people started lining up at 6AM the day after Christmas for a few items that were discounted 5%. The most popular shop completely stopped doing FFL transfers and choice #2 upped their FFL fee to $60.

Few, if any deals at gun shows anymore. On my local swap forum, a lot of used stuff is now priced at full MSRP. In what other industry does that happen? I posted a WTB ad and someone wanted MSRP +$15 for a gun with 300 rounds through it. He said sales tax would be about $30, so was offering to "split it." How generous :p.

Anyone else sitting out right now? When do you think supply will catch up with demand?

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intercooler
January 4, 2012, 01:32 AM
http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-gun-sales-hit-record-high-in-december-2011-20120103,0,4002045.story

Yea and the ranges are packed as well. A wait on weekends wherever you go!

RhinoDefense
January 4, 2012, 01:46 AM
As an FFL myself, the demand subsided drastically back in 2009.

Telekinesis
January 4, 2012, 01:48 AM
I think the gun bubble was what we saw in 2008 before the election. Gun prices were incredibly high but have been reaching a pretty normal level recently. We may be on the cusp of another one, but I think we've got a while longer until we see anything like a real run on guns.

On my local swap forum, a lot of used stuff is now priced at full MSRP. In what other industry does that happen?
Ever heard of those Nike "designer" shoes? :D

I think it'll be a while before we see a real increase in supply. Colt ARs, the "gold standard" as some call it, are only going for around $900. There's going to have to be a lot more demand for us to see a big jump in production.

On second thought... your situation may be specific to your location. I recently heard a guy who found a dealer selling brand new Glock Gen 4s for $425 or so. That's a good bit below MSRP.

Bobson
January 4, 2012, 02:00 AM
I don't know what it says about our country's future when during a time of record high unemployment, thousands of jobs leaving the country every day, and possibly the worst economic outlook in history - the gun shops are absolutely packed with customers clamoring for guns like they're the last wonka bars.
Makes perfect sense to me.

Something has drastically changed, and many people see for the first time that very few things in life are a "sure thing" including jobs, which many of us have been able to take for granted until now (especially people my age - I'm turning 27 soon). As a result, many think to take steps to at least try to guarantee the one thing they can - their ability to survive.

Whether faith in firearms for that survival is sound logic or not is another question entirely. It may very well be a key part of that plan, if nothing else.

I'm certainly not sitting out. Buying a very nice hunting rifle as soon as it's delivered to my LGS. Buying a Glock (or other handgun) for the wife the following week. Buying my own handgun at the end of January, or early February. And plan to buy my first AR15 at the end of Summer.

arcticap
January 4, 2012, 03:26 AM
Will the rabid demand for firearms level off?

I don't see the recent increase in "recorded" background checks by FFL dealers as signifying "rabid demand".
Just because these transfers weren't private which would have resulted in "unrecorded transfers" illustrates that there may not have even been a higher level of gun transfers compared to normal after all.
Or maybe some areas don't have as many gun shops or shooting ranges as other places so any increase in local holiday sales and business seems more dramatic.
And that's not to say that there wasn't any increase, but the increase may not actually be as much higher as people are being led to think.
The population grows but the number of gun shops stays the same, or lags behind the population growth and natural sales growth driven by cohorts who have recently become of age.
Maybe sales were slow and now the military is coming home at an opportune time.
Whatever it is, IMO the term "rabid demand" is off the mark.
Maybe the economy is doing better, but that much better?
Maybe the average price of the guns being transferred is lower due to a relatively poor economy?
Just look at the prices of some guns, both new and used which can sometimes be well under $200.
My son recently came home with a used German WWII rifle for under $100. Believe me, many folks would have jumped on that deal for what he bought at that price. Would he have bought it if it were being sold for double the price and closer to what it was worth? I doubt it would have sold so quickly.
There's plenty of examples like that and I don't see any evidence of a rabid trend.
The more good deals there are then the better the chance that someone will buy it.
Just consider how many guns that are being listed on Gunbroker which never sell. And I've heard complaints by an FFL about very slow sales at recent gun shows. What he actually said was that at a December gun show everyone was walking around with their hands in their pockets and not buying much of anything. And that's been the trend for a while too.
There's still a surplus of used guns probably due to the economy over the last few years. That and many trade ins have probably contributed a lot to the increase in back ground checks. It's a lot like holiday sales in general, the more that retailers discount prices the more that they sell.
Perhaps if there's a shortage of used guns in some places then there must be a surplus somewhere else like over at the auction houses where the dealers buy some of their used guns. Or maybe they're not actively buying used guns and drying up the local market in favor of selling new ones.
When elderly gun collectors die and their estates get auctioned off, then that can contribute to a lot of transfers being done. A lot of the gun auction buyers are also gun collectors, and you'll hardly ever see them in the gun shops standing in line. They can bid from the comfort of their own home or by traveling to auctions in person. So if local people are sending used guns to the auction houses or to Gunbroker then they don't appear on the local market.
Whether there's a surplus of guns available in an area is a lot like rain, some areas have too much and other areas don't have enough.
I think that it's as simple as that. :)

kozak6
January 4, 2012, 04:15 AM
It depends on the political situation. If Obama is reelected, there will be a second Great Panic, and possibly worse than the first time.

If the other guy is elected, demand will remain steady or decrease.

arcticap
January 4, 2012, 04:24 AM
Regarding a 2nd guns and ammo buying panic,
"Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, shame on me."

This means that you should learn from your mistakes and not allow people to take advantage of you repeatedly.

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/fool+me+once,+shame+on+you%3b+fool+me+twice,+shame+on+me.html

To their credit, I think that the majority of the American shooting community is sophisticated and smart enough to not be duped by all of the panic hype.

Joshua M. Smith
January 4, 2012, 04:45 AM
Hello,

It won't really subside.

Folks are getting ready for a change, and are also voting "no confidence" in the government -- with their wallets and choices of purchase.

This is not political; it's only instinct. We are dehumanizing people too -- Zombies, anyone?

As well, new shooters have been bitten by the bug and there is a whole new demand out there.

Folks are just preparing, whether they realize it or not.

Do not look for it to slow down much. Sure, it will taper down as folks get what they need and the industry keeps gearing up to meet demand (Lee builds a new factory and updates tooling, for example). But that taper-off will still be serving a higher number of gun owners than it was in, say, 1995.

Regards,

Josh

War Eagle
January 4, 2012, 09:31 AM
I just heard on our local news yesterday that firearm sports (3 Gun, USPSA, IDPA, F-Class, etc) are growing faster than Golf!

I think we have quite a way to guy before we see demand tapering off. Heck, NBC just bought the Versus Channel, which airs the show 3 Gun Nation and a ton of other firearm and hunting related shows so the desensitization of firearms is underway.

SharkHat
January 4, 2012, 10:16 AM
I think that the popularity of shows like Top Shot, American Gun, and Sons of Guns may be contributing, though I have no way at all to quantify that.

These shows seem to have the potential to reach a portion of the audience that may be turned off by the hunting shows on Outdoor channels, or straight competition shooting like on Versus. Manufactured drama aside, they show off a plethora of drool worthy firearms and showcase some fun aspects of shooting reactive targets. Oh, and they make things go boom.

JohnBT
January 4, 2012, 10:17 AM
"during a time of record high unemployment"

Sorry, but the record was set many years ago. There are a whole lot of people working in this country and making pretty good money still.

And then there are the baby boomers - a huge chunk of the population - like me with paid off mortgages and no debt, etc.

I hope the bubble levels off so I can find, or even see, some of the guns I want.

X-Rap
January 4, 2012, 10:34 AM
I have read a couple articles that said Nov and Dec were both record months for background checks and this was long after any so called panic of 08/09.
I think it's great that the gun market is strong and while not all of these new guns are American made many of them are. Same with ammo, at least those segments of American manufacturing are still strong and the foreign makers have got to be saying "America" "Hell yeah" and the anti politicians are wondering how they will ever move their agenda forward.
The downside of course is that some guns are harder to find but the ammo situation seems to be well under control.
I think many new buyers believe that we are in for declining police forces and understand what many gun owners have always known, the police will come and take a report but when seconds count they are only minutes away.

BSA1
January 4, 2012, 10:53 AM
"Over the holidays, I planned to expand my collection with 3-4 new purchases. As you can probably guess by my tone, I completely struck out and have given up on the idea for the time being. I'd rather just wait this craziness out."

Some people might think someone buying 3-4 guns in a short period of time especially when they already own guns is "crazy." I'm just saying it depends on where you are sitting for your point of view.

ApacheCoTodd
January 4, 2012, 11:04 AM
With quality going up relative to price - or - price dropping for higher quality and options, I'd say certainly it will level off - always does, and this broad range of optional and relatively inexpensive firearms will go with it. I'm more concerned these days about cost/quality/availability of ammo.

Patriotme
January 4, 2012, 12:22 PM
1) I don't consider current buying as "Rabid Demand." I think that it's prudent. As we look at current events (protests and violence) around the globe and our protests at home it is not hard to envision the OWS movement becoming (more) violent as the temps warm up. It is also not hard to imagine crime increasing as the economy continues to stagnate or decline. I'll take this point one step further....we currently have selective law enforcement.
Yes, the usual generic crimes such as assault, rape, murder, robbery, etc are investigated but if there's a political part of the crime then it's often dropped. Examples? Let's look at illegal immigration, gentlemen waving nightsticks around outside of poling places, a mob trashing a Whole Foods store a few months ago, the vandalism associated with the OWS movement, the people that were held hostage on the west coast when a port was occupied, etc, etc, etc. The list can go on and on. I wonder how many arrests were made. Heck, you might even be able to gather 4 friends and try to kick a HS kids head in without consequence as long as a the right people make the right claims.
2) While unemployment is up many of us are working a ton of OT as our companies are doing more with less people. I made almost 1/3 more money than my base pay last year and some of it went to guns and ammo. I know others that did the same.
3) Some are no doubt using play (eating out, movie money, etc) money to buy guns. This is merely a shift in how disposable income is allocated. I'd also like to mention that a sale is a sale. Saving 5-10% during this economy may be a huge deal to some people. These holiday sales might have allowed some people to buy gifts that they might not have been able to buy at regular price. I know people that are counting every dime right now.
4) I consider the current group of people rushing out to buy guns a good thing. They are now invested in keeping pro gun policians in office, are supporting the gun/ammo industry and most of all....they are taking responsibility for their own safety instead of relying on the gov. It shows that the denutting of American males may be changing.
I know several people that bought guns for self defense this year and I'm glad to see people at least thinking about standing up for their own safety instead of believing that the gov. is the solution to everything.
5) I don't want to go overboard on the political stuff but I have seen Libs buying guns for home and self defense. I will enjoy seeing them reconcile their politicians and the gun issue on election day. I also enjoy seeing them mingle with Conservative gun owners and hopefully learning something. Finally, it's kind of interesting to see them state that things are bad enough under the current administration that they need to fear even more crime and violence in the future.

X-Rap
January 4, 2012, 12:50 PM
Well put P

Patriotme
January 4, 2012, 12:52 PM
Well put P
Thank you, I always have to go back and do a bit of editing on these topics. I try not to turn this into an overly political post and get the thread locked.
Apologies if I fail/failed.

Hacker15E
January 4, 2012, 02:17 PM
I'll take this point one step further....we currently have selective law enforcement.
Yes, the usual generic crimes such as assault, rape, murder, robbery, etc are investigated but if there's a political part of the crime then it's often dropped. Examples? Let's look at illegal immigration, gentlemen waving nightsticks around outside of poling places, a mob trashing a Whole Foods store a few months ago, the vandalism associated with the OWS movement, the people that were held hostage on the west coast when a port was occupied, etc, etc, etc. The list can go on and on. I wonder how many arrests were made. Heck, you might even be able to gather 4 friends and try to kick a HS kids head in without consequence as long as a the right people make the right claims.

Law enforcement is, by definition, selective. LEOs do not arrest every legal infraction they see, nor do DAs/SAs prosecute every arrest.

It's not a new concept -- in fact, it is part and parcel with law enforcement.

War Eagle
January 4, 2012, 02:39 PM
Article on 2011 gunsales just came out (9 millon sold last year) http://gunzoo.com/news/Gun-sales-soar-in-2011


...

esquare
January 4, 2012, 03:18 PM
Well, wisconsin just had 65K+ people apply for permits (probably way more than that now) How much of the december nics checks do you think were from applicants getting their long awaited for christmas gifts? (I think there were 150K nics checks in december).

Just wait until IL passes CCW. Then we'll see a real gun bubble. :-)

Ky Larry
January 4, 2012, 03:24 PM
I would be interested in a study of gunbuyers by age in relation to demographic trends. For instance, which states/areas of the country have the biggest change in gun owners totals. What is the age of new buyers? Are we experiencing a wave of people becoming adults(like a mini-baby boomer generation)? Are we seeing an increase or decrease in the ratio of eligible gun buyers per total population? Has anyone made a scientific study like this?

19-3Ben
January 4, 2012, 03:31 PM
I would be interested in a study of gunbuyers by age in relation to demographic trends. For instance, which states/areas of the country have the biggest change in gun owners totals. What is the age of new buyers? Are we experiencing a wave of people becoming adults(like a mini-baby boomer generation)? Are we seeing an increase or decrease in the ratio of eligible gun buyers per total population? Has anyone made a scientific study like this?

Fascinating thought. It would also be interesting to see a breakdown by the home addresses of the buyers and see those little dots charted out on a map so we can see the neighborhoods in which people buy guns. Comparing that to census data, we would see socio/economic and demographic trends, as well as comparisons to crime rates in those neighborhoods.

(note: i'm not taking into account the inherent "big brother" ramifications of such a study. Just speaking from a purely academic standpoint.)

Ryanxia
January 4, 2012, 03:36 PM
Keep trying LGS's. Mine is more often than not busy but usually only a few day turn around on guns that aren't in high demand. And those are well under MSRP.

I hope the buying trend continues or increases. It remains an industry that continues to employ Americans (even if many are made out of the country, it takes people to import/assemble if necessary, market, sell, ship, repair, etc.)

Maybe if it's a big part of our economy and anti's start to realize it they'll have second thoughts.

rem22long40x
January 4, 2012, 03:51 PM
Quote[NBC just bought the Versus Channel, which airs the show 3 Gun Nation and a ton of other firearm and hunting related shows so the desensitization of firearms is underway. ] If NBC Did buy them then you can bet that those shows won't be there much longer as they are influenced by the anti gun Democrats . the only way they will keep it is if they are making a lot of money . from it . It isn't part of there normal programing agenda.JMI.

Black Butte
January 4, 2012, 04:01 PM
... customers clamoring for guns like they're the last wonka bars.

That's hilarious! I love Gene Wilder in that movie.

I guess if we pick up new gun owners, then it's a good thing in terms of preserving our rights. If, however, the sales are mostly due to current gun owners expanding the size of their collections, then we're simply driving up prices.

Balrog
January 4, 2012, 11:34 PM
Colt ARs, the "gold standard" as some call it, are only going for around $900.

Where are you buying Colt AR's for $900???

Davek1977
January 5, 2012, 05:05 AM
http://www.onlinegundeals.com/ItemDetails/796674839/COLT_LEO_AR_15_NEW_AR652.htm

While not "$900" even, heres one for $975 for sale as we speak

Onward Allusion
January 5, 2012, 01:30 PM
Ernie Mccracken
Gun Bubble? Will the rabid demand for firearms level off?
I don't know what it says about our country's future when during a time of record high unemployment, thousands of jobs leaving the country every day, and possibly the worst economic outlook in history - the gun shops are absolutely packed with customers clamoring for guns like they're the last wonka bars. Another thread, I suppose.

Over the holidays, I planned to expand my collection with 3-4 new purchases. As you can probably guess by my tone, I completely struck out and have given up on the idea for the time being. I'd rather just wait this craziness out.

I went to Cabela's twice, but left without getting near the counter. 2-3 people deep for the entire length of their display cases. The local places were totally cleaned out except for bread and butter stuff at full MSRP. I was told people started lining up at 6AM the day after Christmas for a few items that were discounted 5%. The most popular shop completely stopped doing FFL transfers and choice #2 upped their FFL fee to $60.

Few, if any deals at gun shows anymore. On my local swap forum, a lot of used stuff is now priced at full MSRP. In what other industry does that happen? I posted a WTB ad and someone wanted MSRP +$15 for a gun with 300 rounds through it. He said sales tax would be about $30, so was offering to "split it." How generous .

Anyone else sitting out right now? When do you think supply will catch up with demand?

No gun bubble currently exists. The big box stores only carry the most popular guns. If anything, the market is saturated. Just take a look at prices for the evil black rifles (AR/AK). Unconverted Saigas are back to $300-$350. Run-of-the-mill WASR can be had for around $400-$450. A plinker AR can be put together for around $550 and bought whole for just a little over $600. NIB Glocks are going for $500 again. Ammo is back to pre 2009 scare rates.

The current administration is so busy trying to ensure it retains power that the fear is gone, at least for now. Also, with the economy still crawling out of the dumpster, there is a plethora of barely used guns in the market. There is no bubble, only inefficient big boxes and LGS that can't compete with online sales.

Strykervet
January 5, 2012, 03:53 PM
I don't know what it says about our country's future when during a time of record high unemployment, thousands of jobs leaving the country every day, and possibly the worst economic outlook in history - the gun shops are absolutely packed with customers clamoring for guns like they're the last wonka bars. Another thread, I suppose.

Over the holidays, I planned to expand my collection with 3-4 new purchases. As you can probably guess by my tone, I completely struck out and have given up on the idea for the time being. I'd rather just wait this craziness out.

I went to Cabela's twice, but left without getting near the counter. 2-3 people deep for the entire length of their display cases. The local places were totally cleaned out except for bread and butter stuff at full MSRP. I was told people started lining up at 6AM the day after Christmas for a few items that were discounted 5%. The most popular shop completely stopped doing FFL transfers and choice #2 upped their FFL fee to $60.

Few, if any deals at gun shows anymore. On my local swap forum, a lot of used stuff is now priced at full MSRP. In what other industry does that happen? I posted a WTB ad and someone wanted MSRP +$15 for a gun with 300 rounds through it. He said sales tax would be about $30, so was offering to "split it." How generous :p.

Anyone else sitting out right now? When do you think supply will catch up with demand?
Dude, no joke! I haven't been to a shop in two months that wasn't PACKED! The shopkeepers were constantly talking about it. Literally packed, I mean you had to maneuver through crowds like at a concert. Amazing.

I'm a numbers guy, a mathematician. So I'm constantly looking at the world through an analytical lens (my specialty, analysis). I try real hard to refrain from going math geek on here, I understand few people can keep up with it and it is hard to display formulas on here anyway, but I'd like to show you guys something simple.

In Nov. they reported 1.5million federal checks. Considering each check is for a purchase on average of $600 (I pulled this number from the air based on an educated guess) and they all go through, then that accounts for $900,000,000 in sales --just shy of $1billion! Take into account Dec. and you are close to $2billion. $2billion! Considering that each sale has at least a 10% (usually more) profit margin when used and new items are considered, then that is still $200,000,000 dollars! All in local economies! Divided between states equally, you get $4,000,000 in profits alone nationwide, almost all in the local economies and all in one and half months. This isn't bad really. And this doesn't consider the ftf sales either --in Nov. I am responsible for one background check, but THREE purchases.

Americans don't have a lot of cash, so that they value a $600 arm more than a say a radio or new tires, or a new suit for that job --they prioritize, and in this day and age the priority is survival in a very chaotic and upredictable time. We got raped over the years and and kept getting the bad end of the deal. Time and again. But it will only last so long before the people get upset. The political climate, the way our representatives ignore us, it all adds up. I don't advocate an overthrow by any means, but certainly advocate a "We the People" response to let them know whe won't be overrun and that our democracy will NOT be perverted into a political playground for the rich. That we ARE the democracy and that THEY work for us, not lord over us.

huntsman
January 5, 2012, 04:47 PM
I don't know what it says about our country's future when during a time of record high unemployment, thousands of jobs leaving the country every day, and possibly the worst economic outlook in history - the gun shops are absolutely packed with customers clamoring for guns like they're the last wonka bars. Another thread, I suppose.

It's about time Americans woke up and take responsibility for their safety and liberty and buying guns is a better purchase than stupid electronic devices.

I went to Cabela's twice, but left without getting near the counter. 2-3 people deep for the entire length of their display cases.

I was at Cabela's in Wheeling on Monday and it was packed, used gun rack was hard to get to and forget about browsing new guns, they were taking numbers just to get served.

JohnBT
January 5, 2012, 09:18 PM
"I understand few people can keep up with it"

You could be wrong. Some of us were physics majors. :)

bushmaster1313
January 5, 2012, 10:29 PM
There used to be a time that you could get 5% or 7% on money in the bank or in savings bonds.

With interest rates at the banks hitting record lows, if you have cash why not put it into guns?

Onward Allusion
January 5, 2012, 11:37 PM
JohnBT

"I understand few people can keep up with it"

You could be wrong. Some of us were physics majors.

RKBA covers people from all walks of life here - minimum wage earners to those in corner offices in glass towers and everyone in between (and all ethnicity).

Ridgerunner665
January 5, 2012, 11:51 PM
I don't understand the problem here (not finding the gun you want)...

I don't go to the gun shop to buy what they have in stock, at least not usually...I did do that when I bought my Glock.

The process generally goes like this...I call him, tell him what I want, he finds it, gets it in, I buy it. (and he knows very well what I'll tell him if he quotes me MSRP price)

Besides that Glock...the last gun I walked in a gun store and bought off the shelf was a 30-30 from Brendles (that was back when you could buy guns at Montgomery Wards and Sears)

arcticap
January 6, 2012, 12:33 AM
Dude, no joke! I haven't been to a shop in two months that wasn't PACKED! The shopkeepers were constantly talking about it. Literally packed, I mean you had to maneuver through crowds like at a concert. Amazing.


If an area's gun shops are constantly packed then after a while they will need to expand. Or other gun shops will open up that can handle their over flow.
Some huge shops are a magnet for crowds. But they usually have a really huge selection of guns, so no gun shortages there. But then it becomes a matter of prices. Prices are why many folks won't buy at gun shows very often unless they find a really sweet deal.
I've found that some of the newer small gun shops specialize in certain types of guns and services. One is more involved in black rifles while the other is more into military surplus guns. Both seem to be more involved in Class III than most average shops too. They're definitely not as crowded or busy.
Another smaller but well established shop offers the most expert gunsmithing services. So many gun shops develop their own niches aside from just retail sales or else they may not stay in business for long.

Ignition Override
January 6, 2012, 02:35 AM
Patriotme:

That was a good reminder about some 'uncivil' disturbances, not just around the world, but also in some US cities.
As for increased business in US gun shops, is much of the stronger demand mostly with people who live in cities, and who have little or no exposure to legal ownership?

Somebody started a topic recently (on THR?), where several of the guy's anti-gun coworkers suddenly were curious about, or interested in handguns for self-defense.
If this concept has quickly grown around the US, then maybe those images on tv from the Middle East, riots in several English cities at the same time, and the Occupy WS in numerous cities has infiltrated through peoples' subconscious for a while and is seen as global insecurity?

crazyjennyblack
January 6, 2012, 02:43 AM
The gun buying will slow down when the people overall feel safe again. Between the politicians, the economy, and the real or perceived increase in crime of all sorts, it is hard for people to feel safe. Talking to people I know, both pro-gun and anti-gun, the general feeling is that nobody really feels safe, and the general expectations regarding the future are grim.

Dysfunctional Individual
January 6, 2012, 03:51 AM
The real craze was back in 2008, but this recent revival is just an indication that Obummer is very likely to get reelected, possibly in a landslide. Recently there have been a number of positive economic signs, like unemployment ticking down and factory orders picking up, so the chances of a regime change in Washington are slimming. Ironically, an anti-gun Democratic president has been a gift from heaven for gun sellers.

Pilot
January 6, 2012, 05:52 AM
I just think guns are becoming more mainstream again after the psycho babble of the 60's and 70's culminated in the 68 GCA, and continued into the AWB of the 90's. We have seen gun rights become stronger in many ways, and more average people engage in the shooting sports, and purchasing guns for self defense. The media, and liberals are losing the argument on self protection, and self preservation.

Maybe the current level of legal gun purchasing is the new norm.

catnphx
January 6, 2012, 08:44 AM
Patriotme said: I consider the current group of people rushing out to buy guns a good thing. They are now invested in keeping pro gun policians in office, are supporting the gun/ammo industry and most of all....they are taking responsibility for their own safety instead of relying on the gov. It shows that the denutting of American males may be changing.

Very true. Also, let's not forget the "denutting of American" females too.

I've had 2 LGS open up in my area the past 2 months ... they are going up like convenience stores now; the thought of a bubble is interesting given this reality. However, if Obama is re-elected, I'm very concerned that he'll do what most 2nd term presidents do ... start pushing their own personal agendas without danger of voter repercussion. A politican that's not concerned about the voter is a dangerous person.

arcticap
January 7, 2012, 09:46 PM
4) I consider the current group of people rushing out to buy guns a good thing. They are now invested in keeping pro gun policians in office, are supporting the gun/ammo industry and most of all....they are taking responsibility for their own safety instead of relying on the gov. It shows that the denutting of American males may be changing.
I know several people that bought guns for self defense this year and I'm glad to see people at least thinking about standing up for their own safety instead of believing that the gov. is the solution to everything.

Very true. Also, let's not forget the "denutting of American" females too.

I've had 2 LGS open up in my area the past 2 months ... they are going up like convenience stores now; the thought of a bubble is interesting given this reality. However, if Obama is re-elected, I'm very concerned that he'll do what most 2nd term presidents do ... start pushing their own personal agendas without danger of voter repercussion. A politican that's not concerned about the voter is a dangerous person.

I think that some gun owners are an independent lot, many represent a cross section of the general population and others will vote the same way that they tended to before they owned a gun.
Most gun owners don't join the NRA and don't believe that the 2nd Amendment is in any jeopardy.
Consider the recent Heller ruling by Supreme Court.
Part of America's stability is due to the Constitution and the fragmentation of power between different branches of gov't and all of the 50 states. I can't imagine a President being able to change it all by himself. :rolleyes:

Fishslayer
January 7, 2012, 10:32 PM
As well, new shooters have been bitten by the bug and there is a whole new demand out there

^^^This would be my guess. Saw it with the Harley craze when the Evos came out & the yuppies were all wanting to cash in on the "Bad Boy" image and play biker. A lot of us were lickin' our chops at the prospect of thousands of low milage Harleys hittin' the market after they got tired of their toys.

Never happened. While they're still fun to look at with the Gucci boots & huge embroidered "outlaw" patches, the RUBs (Rich Urban Bikers) found they love to ride with a Harley in the back of the motorhome and never sold the bikes.

22-rimfire
January 8, 2012, 12:04 AM
I believe the overall demand for firearms has increased. December purchases were not because of Obama.

I was in a local gun shop and the FedEx truck was outside making a delivery. Shortly after, two Ruger LCR-22's were placed in the glass case. Both were sold in less than 30 minutes. There were probably 4-5 customers in the store.

I think certain guns are selling like hotcakes. I think there are more women buyers and more first time buyers. The ranges are busy when the weather is nice.

Sales will slack off relative to December 2011 sales. There are a lot of Christmas sales between Thanksgiving and Christmas. But overall demand is likely to stay brisk.

bushmaster1313
January 8, 2012, 12:11 AM
This is about economics not politics.

The Administration wants to boost the economy by boosting consumer spending.
This is why interest rates are near zero.

One of the purchases that people put off when money is tight is firearms, which after the first one or two are a luxury item.

Fishslayer
January 8, 2012, 01:23 AM
I think certain guns are selling like hotcakes. I think there are more women buyers and more first time buyers. The ranges are busy when the weather is nice.


The indoor range I go to has been packed since after Christmas. I guess a lot are trying out new presents, but it's been busy at hours when it's usually slow, and on weekdays!

Ignition Override
January 8, 2012, 02:03 AM
In case our Washington "White Hose;)" team is re-elected in November (many people do Not vote), is it likely that costs for handgun classes will be sharply increased, to try to take advantage of the anticipated increase in demand for concealed carry permits etc?

Also, my main hang-up with the desire for a very first handgun (.22: for plinking) is the impression that very few types or styles of handguns are designed for " Lefties ".

A PPK or Bersa style in .380 or 9mm would be handy and have good potential to be legally concealed (as a long-term goal), but I've not seen safety levers designed for Lefties.

Wanderling
January 8, 2012, 10:21 AM
This is purely anecdotal, but according to at least one local CPL class teacher, there has been a steady increase in both the number of first time gun buyers and CPL applicants in the last 4-5 years, getting stronger with each year. He said this to the large part was fueled by MI becoming a "shall issue" state some 10 years ago, which took a few years to start showing, due to some mental inertia on part of population. May be the same is happening in OP's area. Many people I know who became first time gun owners didn't do it to fight off hordes of unemployed zombies.

gp911
January 8, 2012, 11:31 AM
In my recent experience several friends l never heard talk about guns have actually acquired their concealed carry licenses, which in Ohio means they took a class & jumped through some hoops. When asked about it some said it was to be protected & some said it was just a good idea to have it in general, like they wanted to at least check that box. They may never actually get into the habit of carrying, but even so it still means they have gotten over their knee-jerk gun aversion and realized firearms are not inherently evil.

Sounds like good news to me.

One_Jackal
January 8, 2012, 04:29 PM
I would say law enforcement is selective. Most police departments will put more effort into enforcing laws they receive funding to enforce. If our local law enforcement agency's put half the effort into protecting property as they do looking for drunk drivers and drugs there would be very little property crime in the area.

I eat at a Waffle House that is frequented by policemen in the area. It's quite common to hear the term "selective enforcement" on the radio. Selective enforcement is code for speed trap.

JohnBT
January 8, 2012, 08:56 PM
I went to the gun show today around 1 p.m. and there was easy parking, no line to get in and plenty of room to walk and look. Don't get me wrong, it was still busy, just not mobbed. A few vendors told me they'd been slammed yesterday.

I didn't notice any shortage of guns at all, except NIB SSAs. Georgia Arms still had 1500 rounds of their Canned Heat .45 ACP, so I bought a thousand -one ammo can for each hand. There was a short line out the door at 3:30.

John

Fatelvis
January 9, 2012, 08:31 AM
Just wait until IL passes CCW.
Oh that's coming my friend.... :D

BamAlmighty
January 9, 2012, 09:20 AM
The last gun bubble popped after Obama was elected, We are in somewhat of a gun renascence right now. Demand is high, but the supply is keeping up.

Don't expect that to last... when Obama gets re-elected the gun bubble will return and it will last longer than the first, being Obama has nothing to lose in his 2nd term and can try to pass all the anti 2nd amendment legislation he can.

Might as well buy everything you want now and YEAH stock pile ammo while the prices are good (granted this mentality is what drive up prices, but it is highly likely going to happen anyway).

Rshooter
January 9, 2012, 12:30 PM
I am not sure this is a bubble. There may be people afraid of what Obama might do to the second amendment but I believe there are a lot of people newly deciding to exercise their rights. Several friends have gone shooting for the first time with me and decided to buy guns now. My brother is buying a lower I have had for a while because he wants an AR.

The public is uneasy and some are frustrated and scared so people seem to be exercising a right few populations now have. This probably scares the poop out of politicians.

I am just happy to see so many gun owners that may now join the fight for the rights of gun owners before it is too late. If Obama is reelected he may be able to staff the supreme court anti second amendment.

Ignition Override
January 9, 2012, 02:11 PM
Some of you saw the video of the young mother near Ok. City, who now poses with the shotgun she used to kill the intruder. It was on a certain channel;) last night.

Won't this quickly enlarge the number of women and men who now want their first shotgun or handgun?

If many more people go to vote next November and they "send" Pres. O. back to Chicago (with "Politburo" member Holder), could this motivate many people to then sell handguns and lose interest in attending a class?

browneu
January 9, 2012, 08:39 PM
I tried to go to the local gun range last week and just turned around and left when I saw the number of people waiting for a lane. I didn't even window shop due to the number of people at the counters.

I'm glad the stores are crowded and hope that gun ownership continues to increase.

Stevie-Ray
January 10, 2012, 12:05 AM
Double-edged sword for me. I don't really like the prices in this area, though they're not totally out of reach like during the advent of the AWB, but OTOH, I love all the first-time gun buyers and shooters taking an interest, especially the women.

ErikO
January 10, 2012, 10:20 AM
All the guns I want to buy will all go on deep-discount sale the day after my body's cold. lol

goon
January 10, 2012, 01:08 PM
I'm a fan of more people taking an interest in firearms ownership. I think the more people who own guns, the less likely politicians will see it as an easy target for their attacks. Politicians want to get re-elected and angering a larger segment of potential voters isn't good for making that happen.

As for when the increased buying will end, hopefully never.

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