Pitbull AK-47 - American made - anyone have any experience with them?


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jlg
January 4, 2012, 03:14 PM
SOG has some American made AK-47's in their recent flyer labeled as Pitbull AK-47 7.62x39. Has anyone had any experience with them?

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r243/JoshGregory/sog_mail_AK-ECO.jpg

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TwoWheelFiend
January 4, 2012, 03:39 PM
looks nice, and the price seems right. I'm no Ak expert tho

paintballdude902
January 4, 2012, 03:44 PM
from the pics they dont look too bad but i dont like the furniture. thats just personal preference though.

Telekinesis
January 4, 2012, 03:53 PM
That pic looks a lot like an IO Inc AK...

JustinJ
January 4, 2012, 04:26 PM
I can't take a gun company serious that names their product "pitbul".

mljdeckard
January 4, 2012, 04:27 PM
.....what was wrong with the quality of the imported ones? What is the "U.S.A. made" label trying to prove?

JustinJ
January 4, 2012, 04:47 PM
I'm most curious has to how they define "American Made" and even more how they define AK "mil spec". The latter is is most intriguing. Is it to Russian, Romanian, Yugoslavian, E German, Bulgarian, Chinese, etc. mil spec standards? That kind of nonsense always turns me away. Arsenal is the best.

SpentCasing
January 4, 2012, 04:47 PM
what the heck is a slant flash supressor? :banghead:

jlg
January 4, 2012, 05:15 PM
I looks like it would accept all the standard AK aftermarket accessories. I don't particularly like the furniture that comes on it either. But if it's standard, then none of that stuff is difficult to change out. Seems like it might be a good alternative to the WASR's, especially since the price on the WASR's has been steadily rising.

JustinJ
January 4, 2012, 05:24 PM
I looks like it would accept all the standard AK aftermarket accessories. I don't particularly like the furniture that comes on it either. But if it's standard, then none of that stuff is difficult to change out. Seems like it might be a good alternative to the WASR's, especially since the price on the WASR's has been steadily rising

The gun costs $500 and then add on the cost of different furniture and you're almost at a $700 Arsenal. Just go with the latter and know you have the best AK on the market.

JHenry
January 4, 2012, 05:37 PM
other than that horribly ugly polymer furniture i dont see anything wrong with it.

Lifetime warranties are always a good indicator

jlg
January 4, 2012, 05:40 PM
The gun costs $500 and then add on the cost of different furniture and you're almost at a $700 Arsenal. Just go with the latter and know you have the best AK on the market.

Unless you don't like the standard Arsenal furniture either.

JHenry
January 4, 2012, 05:52 PM
AKs are touchy product because you start and you consider a WASR, then you begin to think well for $100-200 more i could get an interarms, then you start to think well im spending $500 dollars already might as well put in another $150 for a waffen werks, than you consider spending the extra on the arsenal, and from there you start thinking about milled receiver yugos and other manufacters.

My advice take what money you have subtract $100-150 for a decent amount of ammo and see what options you have from there.

JustinJ
January 4, 2012, 06:07 PM
Lifetime warranties are always a good indicator

Tell that to keltek owners/quality control testers.

Quote:
The gun costs $500 and then add on the cost of different furniture and you're almost at a $700 Arsenal. Just go with the latter and know you have the best AK on the market.

Unless you don't like the standard Arsenal furniture either.

Of all the AKs i've owned Arsenal forearms are by far the best heat shields. It also comes in every color imaginable, in NATO and Warsaw butt lenghts, and two folding stock types. If none of that serves you than I hope you like wood.

Yellow Box
January 4, 2012, 06:16 PM
looks just like the ones big 5 sporting goods sells
the one I looked at yesterday had an awful blue type finish
different colors nothing matched like they blued all the different parts separately

I think they are part kits rebuilt on usa receivers but I could be wrong
from what I read about the big 5 ones alot of quality issues
they had the same furniture as the one here which looks awful

MuleRyder
January 4, 2012, 07:45 PM
Pitbull...paaaleeeese and slant flash supressor what? I wonder who their target market is. Mall ninjas maybe?

Rob G
January 4, 2012, 07:55 PM
Two thoughts:

1. I know a good amount about AKs and I've never seen that before. Not saying it's bad. I'm just thinking it probably hasn't been on the market very long.
2. It's a slant brake, not a flash suppressor. :banghead:

Sergeant Sabre
January 5, 2012, 03:34 AM
2. It's a slant break, not a flash suppressor.

If you're going to nit-pick. Get it right. It's a brake, not a break.

Rob G
January 5, 2012, 05:06 AM
If you're going to nit-pick. Get it right. It's a brake, not a break.
A flash suppressor and a muzzle brake have two very different functions. How is correcting someone for not distinguishing between them being nit-picky?

Davek1977
January 5, 2012, 05:15 AM
I too thought it looked an AWFUL lot like an IO Inc AK, and the claim of "1-2 in groups" petty much confirmed it for me. FWIW, has ANYONE got an IO Inc AK to CONSISTENTLY shoot groups like they claim are "possible" with their weapons? HAs anyone done a head to head comparison with say a WASR or an Arsenal, just to see how thhey compared in accuracy?

Sergeant Sabre
January 5, 2012, 05:58 AM
A flash suppressor and a muzzle brake have two very different functions. How is correcting someone for not distinguishing between them being nit-picky?

I suppose my point was you were banging your head against the wall like the person who wrote "flash suppressor" was a moron, but you got it wrong yourself, so how can you blame them?

wasr10634unme
January 5, 2012, 08:19 AM
every gangster will have to have a rifle with the same name as there dog. wonder which theyll neglect more?=)

Cecil Sharps
January 5, 2012, 08:57 AM
that buttstock really makes it look like an i.o. inc rifle. I wonder if it american made via 922 compliance or actually has american trunions and bcg.

Rob G
January 5, 2012, 10:28 AM
but you got it wrong yourself, so how can you blame them?
Not really, I called it a muzzle brake (or break in my semi inattentive spelling error). They're the ones who called it a flash suppressor. Different errors. Different concepts. I actually got it right, I just put the "e" in the wrong place.

jlg
January 5, 2012, 10:32 AM
I likes to call it a "berak" but that's just cause i dont likes speling and grammer.

We knew what you were saying Rob G


I looked up the IO rifles and it looks exactly like one of their models. I wonder if SOG is just relabeling them or just not mentioning the manufacturer?

carbine85
January 5, 2012, 09:02 PM
So does anyone know anything about these? That's the OPs question. I like the idea of an American made AK.

csspecs
January 5, 2012, 09:14 PM
I kinda doubt their claim of 100% American made. As I just don't see someone cutting the bolts extractors and trunnions and actually being able to sell it for that price... I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Rob G
January 5, 2012, 11:59 PM
So does anyone know anything about these? That's the OPs question.
I think the most accurate answer is "No." It looks a lot like an IO product but it's hard to say.

I like the idea of an American made AK.
So do I but to the best of my knowledge there aren't any 100% American made AKs. Foreign parts kits are far too easy and cheap for an American company to 100% completely fabricate their own AK. That having been said you should check out these guys:

http://www.xtrememachining.biz/products_ak.html

It's a partially American made AK and the work is really high quality. My local gun store had a few for around $650 and honestly at that price point it's a really nice rifle.

snakeman
January 6, 2012, 12:06 AM
It looks I.O. no further comment

Ian
January 6, 2012, 12:58 AM
Yeah...100% American made my butt.

BIGBANG
January 6, 2012, 01:49 AM
That has to be an IO ak, It looks just like mine, and mine claims the same match grade barrel with 1-2 inch groups at 100 yards. same furniture and everything.

156287

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=154730&thumb=1&d=1323832426

and It does shoot good but 1-2 moa is pushing it. maybe a better shooter could do it, I'm right at around 4 moa trying to get better.

p.s. I got mine for $350 out the door, seems a lil high to me.

InkEd
January 6, 2012, 09:52 AM
I love my pitbull and my AK. They have nothing to do with each other though.

I guess it's no different than using any other animal name (python, mustang, redhawk, SAIGA, etc) but the unfortunate (especially for the animals) affiliation with gang culture really turns me off to products that use the name/imagery of a TRULY wonderful and American breed of dog, in order to appeal to wannabe tough guys.

The rifle could be decent but it looks like junk with that furniture. Also, I doubt that it is nearly as well made as an SGL-21 which you can get for $200 more.

RobGR
January 6, 2012, 02:25 PM
Just ugly and almost pathetic. The barrel probably isn't even chrome lined......

I guess a Robinson XCR would be considered a worthy American version of an AK, but pricey. Surprising an American company cannot produce a 100% USA MADE AK variant, like Israels or South Africa's Galils. Wonder if it's related to licensing fees/issues. I guess, why would they, when Century only pays $10 for each WASR they import and then mark it up accordingly. Then we have our Saiga conversions from Arsenal with a solid mark up with out having to worry about the machinery for stamped or milled receivers and barrels. I wonder what Arsenal pays for each "sporter" Saiga?

RobGR
January 6, 2012, 02:29 PM
Definitely a Royal Tiger Imports / IO Inc AK. Considering one of IOs models is called the Hellbound, I'm gonna guess the genius that named that, named the Pitbull. If it looked good and had that name, I'd have no problem with it and I'd be a lot less cynical.

henschman
January 6, 2012, 04:02 PM
I for one will never buy an AK that doesn't have a chrome lined barrel.

JHenry
January 6, 2012, 04:20 PM
non-chrome lined barrels are generally more accurate while chrome lined require much less matinence. Yugo variants dont have chrome lined barrels but they are still quality firearms. However, unless your buying an m70 or one of its offspins you generally want the chrome lining

henschman
January 6, 2012, 05:14 PM
Yeah, I don't buy AK's for match-grade accuracy... I buy them for being maintenance free and reliable. Which is where the chrome-lined barrel comes in. And my chrome lined WASR is plenty accurate for what it needs to do... it keeps the groups under man-size out to 400m.

carbine85
January 6, 2012, 06:54 PM
With normal care and cleaning a non chrome lined barrel will go well over 10,000 rounds. Chrome lining in a non military application is over hyped. Most rifles are not chrome lined.

RobGR
January 7, 2012, 01:16 AM
"Chrome lined barrels lasted an average of 38,000+ rounds. Nitrocarburized (Melonite) barrels lasted an average of 28,000+ rounds. Untreated barrels lasted an average of 6,000+." - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=597559 per a 1967 Army study (http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=AD822736&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf)

It's definitely one feature to consider when selecting a firearm, especially if shooting corrosive surplus, which I do. I don't see how anyone could refute the claim that chrome lining does not improve barrel longevity and durability. So what if it's not necessarily needed in the civilian market, it's available and has a viable benefit.

I'm pretty sure the non-chromed lined barrel will not be the downfall of the ol "pitbull", but it's definitely not helping to sell it as a reputable AK in the current market. Get a Saiga for less and you'll have a far superior firearm.... with a chrome lined barrel.

RobGR
January 7, 2012, 01:47 AM
Would like to find a newer study... something within the last 10 years would be nice. Someone post one if possible.

carbine85
January 7, 2012, 06:46 PM
That study was based on full auto fire.
I saw a Pitbull today at the Cincinnati Gun Show. It was $549.00. The plastic furniture is a real piece of sh@t. It's hollow and flexible.

Rob G
January 8, 2012, 10:52 AM
Surprising an American company cannot produce a 100% USA MADE AK variant, like Israels or South Africa's Galils. Wonder if it's related to licensing fees/issues.
I doubt it has much to do with that. More than likely it's because foreign parts kits are so plentiful and cheap. Why pay all the money for tooling and training to produce parts that can be had dirt cheap from overseas?

Adam123
January 8, 2012, 04:54 PM
Unless you don't like the standard Arsenal furniture either.

... couldn't agree more. I don't like the Arsenal furniture and to get it configured the way I like an AKM, I would have to spend an additional $250.00. In the end, I'd have a pricey rifle that wouldn't out-shoot any other AKM that I own.

Now, about the Pitbull... I don't doubt their claims of 1-2" groups. I have a M10-762 and I can shoot 1.5-2" groups all day long with Tula ammo from Walmart - even better with Golden Tiger. If they are saying "100% American made", I would take that as the entire rifle is built here and nothing is imported. If that is not the case, I'd have to say they are being deceptive with their advertising.

Question - If it is a IO Inc. AKM, is that a bad thing? I'm not very familiar with IO.

armysniper
January 9, 2012, 02:11 PM
Where did you get yours? I live in daytona area.

ChCx2744
January 9, 2012, 02:20 PM
I see a lot of trash talk. Until I've actually handled and operated one for myself, I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt. I think it looks okay from what I can see so far. If I get a chance to check one out, I'll get back to you.

RobGR
January 10, 2012, 12:17 AM
And when you handle one, I'm sure you'll join in on the trash talk. Just be thankful you haven't dropped any coin on one b/c most ppl who have definitely regret it.

They are garbage and I've examined 5 different IO builds at 3 different stores, each a monstrosity. At Turners in Vista CA, I popped the dust cover off one and removed the recoil spring, when I did a large mount of dust (sawdust I think) poured out of the bolt carrier. Is sawdust the new recoil buffer? I don't think so. And I'm not talking about a few pieces, there was a lot, it poured out onto the floor, I was actually waiting for the perplexed salesman to ask me to clean it up.... yeah right. I guess they weren't used to having a customer actually inspect a firearm they were selling. But I'm also sure they did not expect that to happen. There are IOs in Big 5 and Turners in CA, I have no idea why they are carry the worst AK on the market, but they do. From the craftsmanship, the finish, the rivets, the furniture, to the parts, they are at the bottom of the barrel! Why would anyone support or champion their firearms when they produce such garbage, I have no idea.

alabaster
February 8, 2012, 07:36 PM
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet? Something like that. WTSHTF, I won't care if your rifle is called the "Fruitcake Special" if it's doing it's intended job. I'm in the market for an AK, and would like to know what's the best route, and this seems worth a look. I need a good all-round rifle. It leads me to AKs, which leads me to this and a few others. Under $700 is the goal, but 100% is mandatory. 1-2 MOA, I'm not concerned. If it'll hold under 6in @ 100yds, I'm okay with that from this tool for this app.

RobGR
February 9, 2012, 12:12 PM
alabaster

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet? Something like that. WTSHTF, I won't care if your rifle is called the "Fruitcake Special" if it's doing it's intended job. I'm in the market for an AK, and would like to know what's the best route, and this seems worth a look. I need a good all-round rifle. It leads me to AKs, which leads me to this and a few others. Under $700 is the goal, but 100% is mandatory. 1-2 MOA, I'm not concerned. If it'll hold under 6in @ 100yds, I'm okay with that from this tool for this app.

Then get a WASR-10/63, a flip of the coin but if you are able to inspect it personally, you are GTG. A Century Draco is 100% built in Romania and imported in with all parts, a y stamped receiver, no 922r compliance needed as it is classified as a pistol. I love mine and only wish I could SBR, illegal in CA. Or shell out a little extra for an Arsenal SGL21. Atlantic firearms also has some interesting builds. I would avoid IO Inc.

jlg
February 9, 2012, 12:27 PM
I agree with RobGR. After reading the reviews in this post and doing more research online, I'd stay away from this one.

The CIA WASR-10's are good rifles. I've handled quite a few. Some of the major issues I've noticed with them are: front sight post canted, mags not fitting well, safety very stiff. However, most that I've seen have not had any of these issues. If you hand pick one and check for those issues first you shouldn't have any problems.

I have personally built two SBR's from the Dracos and I'm extremely pleased with them. Much higher quality than the WASR's. Basic cost for gun, tax stamp and stock - about $750. Not bad for a good quality 12.5" AK

JustinJ
February 9, 2012, 01:25 PM
Alabaster, get an Arsenal from Atlantic. If they still offer discounts to board members I think you could get one for under $700.

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