10mm for an outdoors caliber?


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Inebriated
January 4, 2012, 05:03 PM
Hey guys, I've been getting more interested in 10mm as a woods gun, and I'm wanting to get some opinions. I know it's a hard-hitting round, so I've been looking at it and the great .357 Magnum (really the standard around here in NC). From what I can tell, .357 is a tad more "powerful" (just looking at Buffalo Bore's ME numbers), but it seems negligible when a Glock 20 has 15+1 rounds, and a K-frame has 6 or 7 rounds of .357. So what say you people? Good choice?

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mljdeckard
January 4, 2012, 05:07 PM
Plenty of people seem to think so. The Glock has the capacity, but many prefer the S&W 610 revolver, as it can shoot .40s, 10mm, and not have to worry about springs or setup for it to cycle a given load.

357 Terms
January 4, 2012, 05:09 PM
North Carolina?

Can't go wrong with either.

Reliability is a wash, whatever you shoot best.

Long range I would take the 357.

Inebriated
January 4, 2012, 05:11 PM
Well I don't really care about .40, since I'd only practice with 10mm, and if I'm going with a revolver, I might as well just up to .44 Magnum. I like that the Glock is sort of in the middle.

And as for range, I'm sort of thinking about the woods and trails around here, and I really can't imagine having to take a shot at more than 60/70 yards. But, point taken, and something to consider.

Thanks fellas!

rcmodel
January 4, 2012, 05:16 PM
For woods bumming, I much prefer a S&W .357 or .44 revolver.

First, they are almost always more accurate then combat tupperware.

Second, things like CCI snake shot and less powerful .38 & .44 Spl ammo is available for when you aren't expecting to meet a Tyrannosaurus Rex.
And don't want to wear earplugs all day.

Third, I reload, and revolvers don't chuck .30 cents ea. empty brass into the poison ivy where I can't find it.

rc

Elkins45
January 4, 2012, 05:22 PM
For woods bumming, I much prefer a S&W .357 or .44 revolver.

First, they are almost always more accurate then combat tupperware.

Second, things like CCI snake shot and less powerful .38 & .44 Spl ammo is available for when you aren't expecting to meet a Tyrannosaurus Rex.
And don't want to wear earplugs all day.

Third, I reload, and revolvers don't chuck .30 cents ea. empty brass into the poison ivy where I can't find it.

rc
I love the 10mm, but rcmodel nailed this one. 10mm would be fine for hunting or SD, but for versatility and for saving your brass there's just no beating a good revolver.

Inebriated
January 4, 2012, 06:26 PM
Let's not stray from the discussion, which is 10mm for woods defense. Yes, it's annoying to pick up my brass, but I get by with the .45 and .308. I will do just as fine with the 10mm.

Brian D.
January 4, 2012, 06:34 PM
A Glock model 20 goes on my hip on any journey into "big critter country". (It doesn't get much toting duty otherwise.) For the parts of the trip where I'm away from the towns, a magazine of hot 200 grain JFP handloads goes into the gun. When I get back from the woods/mountains I'll switch back to factory 180 grain JHPs.

@ Inebriated: Have been vacationing in Bryson City and points south in your fine state several times, that's one of the areas I consider the Glock 20 a good idea.

Skribs
January 4, 2012, 06:37 PM
I haven't noticed a significant difference in accuracy between revolvers and semi-autos for myself. In both cases, it's more me than the gun.

You can get "FBI loads" which are less powerful than the full-on 10mm if you want to use something lighter.

I don't reload, so if I was considering the difference between a revolver or a glock for woods, spent casings wouldn't be a consideration.

If I were picking out a woods gun, I would go with a Glock 20 and use FMJs.

sargents1
January 4, 2012, 06:57 PM
Hey guys, I've been getting more interested in 10mm as a woods gun, and I'm wanting to get some opinions. I know it's a hard-hitting round, so I've been looking at it and the great .357 Magnum (really the standard around here in NC). From what I can tell, .357 is a tad more "powerful" (just looking at Buffalo Bore's ME numbers), but it seems negligible when a Glock 20 has 15+1 rounds, and a K-frame has 6 or 7 rounds of .357. So what say you people? Good choice?

Hmmm, I always figured that the 10mm was a bit more powerful than the .357, not the other way around. Buffalo Bore loads full powered 10mm, but not the hottest. The hottest 10mm rounds come from Double Tap and Swamp Fox (and the original Norma loads). Selected rounds from those mfgs will run 750ft-lbs + at the muzzle. Most .357 Loads I see run around 650ft-lbs.

In any case, the actual difference is going to be small (if even noticeable) in practice.

I have a G20SF and I think its better than .357 revolver because its at least as powerful, and holds a lot more bullets. It also handles big bullets (180gr or bigger) better than a .357.

I say, if you need encouragement to buy a Glock 10mm...consider yourself Encouraged! I really like mine.

Its accurate...
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/Sargents77/Cliffs%20SR1911%20and%20G20/DSC02353.jpg

and its relatively soft shooting.
here is mine on the right with my buddy's Regular G20 on the left.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/Sargents77/Cliffs%20SR1911%20and%20G20/DSC02338.jpg

jem375
January 4, 2012, 07:11 PM
Hmmm, I always figured that the 10mm was a bit more powerful than the .357, not the other way around. Buffalo Bore loads full powered 10mm, but not the hottest. The hottest 10mm rounds come from Double Tap and Swamp Fox (and the original Norma loads). Selected rounds from those mfgs will run 750ft-lbs + at the muzzle. Most .357 Loads I see run around 650ft-lbs.

In any case, the actual difference is going to be small (if even noticeable) in practice.

I have a G20SF and I think its better than .357 revolver because its at least as powerful, and holds a lot more bullets. It also handles big bullets (180gr or bigger) better than a .357.

I say, if you need encouragement to buy a Glock 10mm...consider yourself Encouraged! I really like mine.

Its accurate...
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/Sargents77/Cliffs%20SR1911%20and%20G20/DSC02353.jpg

and its relatively soft shooting.
here is mine on the right with my buddy's Regular G20 on the left.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g359/Sargents77/Cliffs%20SR1911%20and%20G20/DSC02338.jpg
show me a 10MM that will shoot out an 180 gr. bullet at around 1400 like the 357 Magnum using 3 powders........L'l gun, WW296 or H110

jem375
January 4, 2012, 07:12 PM
show me a 10MM that will spit out a 180 gr. bullet at around 1400 fps..

357 Terms
January 4, 2012, 07:14 PM
Hmmm, I always figured that the 10mm was a bit more powerful than the .357, not the other way around.



Hmmm, a non reloader?

The 357 has been loaded down considerably since its introduction.

Now let's talk about sectional density!...really.

My 180 XTP 357 handloads will exit my 6.5in Blackhawk at 1400+ fps.

I would be impressed if most could outshoot that Ruger at 50yrds with a Glock.

Gtscotty
January 4, 2012, 07:15 PM
I'd say go for the G20, I just picked up a G20sf (the regular G20 did not fit my hand), and am having a blast with it. While I got mine predominately to hunt hogs and deer with, I will probably be taking it with me whenever I go out to walk around the hunting property alone (currently use a G19 for this). From what I've been able to gather, hot 10mm rounds tend to be a little above hot .357 rounds, and most G20 shooters report good enough accuracy for 50 yd shots. Some of the boutique ammo manufacturers loads for 10mm (e.g. Double Tap) have been reported to chrono well below their claimed velocity, others (e.g. Underwood) have a reputation for meeting or beating the advertised velocity. It seems that there has been a small resurgence in interest in 10mm of late, and full power 10mm ammo is becoming more readily available.

Not to Derail, but do any of you G20 hunters have suggestions for good sights for hunting use?

Gtscotty
January 4, 2012, 07:26 PM
My 180 XTP 357 handloads will exit my 6.5in Blackhawk at 1400+ fps.

Wow, thats really smoking, the Hogdon and Alliant load manuals only show that kind of velocity out of a 10 inch barrel. I bet even those redline 180 loads are running closer to the 10mm-esq 1300-1350 mark when coming out of an equal length (4.6") barrel.

Regardless, I'm sure either 10mm or .357 would meet the OP's needs as a woods gun, I think it really comes down to what format he wants and is comfortable with, revolver vs semi.

SharpsDressedMan
January 4, 2012, 07:26 PM
You need to go back and read several other threads here on the topic. Mucho information.

357 Terms
January 4, 2012, 07:34 PM
[QUOTE]Wow, thats really smoking, the Hogdon and Alliant load manuals only show that kind of velocity out of a 10 inch barrel.

Check out Vihtavuori powders manual.

I use N110 with a small rifle primer just a couple tenths of a grain over max. Never any signs of over pressure and accurate.

it's an older manual ( now they say SP primer) but I have shot hundreds of these with no problems.

Gtscotty
January 4, 2012, 07:37 PM
Check out Vihtavuori powders manual.

I use N110 with a small rifle primer just a couple tenths of a grain over max. Never any signs of over pressure and accurate.

Fair enough, I bet that load hits like a train.

You need to go back and read several other threads here on the topic. Mucho information.

Who is you? the OP or other posters?

Magoo
January 4, 2012, 07:42 PM
It seems like a fine choice to me. When I think "woods gun" I think of something that can take the abuse of me tumbling down a hill or falling in the river. While I've never owned a Glock, that seems a big part of their reputation.

At first I thought 10mm was "too much" for around here and then I thought of hogs. If I was shooting a hog in self defense I'd want as much power headed the other way as possible. Nasty critters. What made me actually respond was my desire for a woods gun for myself. What I want one for is fly fishing in MT/WY/ID. When I'm out there I also want as much firepower as possible. If the fishing is good, I'm likely in prime Griz habitat.

I'd want the gun to be readily accessable which means it is inevitably going to be subjected to some nasty environmental conditions. The occasional dunking is more likely than not. Again, Glock seems taylor made for the role.

If you end up with one, and are in WNC, I'd love to meet up with you sometime to put some rounds downrange. I'd bring ammo and other "toys" to ensure a fun afternoon.

And just to address rcmodel's (whose input I always greatly respect) thoughts on losing autoloader casings- if I'm shooting this thing in the woods at a dangerous animal I could give a care less where the casings go. It won't be hunting, target practice, or plinking. A change of underpants will be a much bigger concern than missing brass.

SharpsDressedMan
January 4, 2012, 08:01 PM
The OP has a wealth of previous commentary at THR here on the 10mm as a great field gun/round. If it were I seeking info, I'd sure find it useful.

R.W.Dale
January 4, 2012, 08:04 PM
Bear in mind that when comparing revolvers and automatics of the same "listed" bbl length that the revolver bbl is actually almost a couple inches longer as per the difference in how you measure one.

Any way you cut it 1400 from 180'S in a 357 handgun is an overload. It takes a hot handload to hit 1400 with 158 grn pills

posted via tapatalk using android.

357 Terms
January 4, 2012, 08:11 PM
Any way you cut it 1400 from 180'S in a 357 handgun is an overload. It takes a hot handload to hit 1400 with 158 grn pills



Check out V.V manual with N110, they use a 7in barrell ( at least my 7 or 8 year old copy says so)

And I have never had a sign of over pressure...ever

T Bran
January 4, 2012, 08:22 PM
It really comes down to what you shoot the best. I carry a SIG .40 and have no problems but that is the pistol I shoot the most so it's also what I shoot the best. It is not as much what you hit but where you hit it. If I lived in big bear country I'd have to get in an awful lot of practice with a lot heavier gun before I felt secure. Here it is hogs and the ocasional black bear. I worry more about the two legged predators than the four.

R.W.Dale
January 4, 2012, 08:24 PM
Check out V.V manual with N110, they use a 7in barrell ( at least my 7 or 8 year old copy says so)

And I have never had a sign of over pressure...ever

Have you actually chronographed this load or are you just going off what the manual says the velocity should be?

posted via tapatalk using android.

jmr40
January 4, 2012, 08:41 PM
A G-20 in 10mm is about as good as it gets outdoors. On paper the 357 is about a tie in power, but the 357 needs a 6" barrel to match what the Glock will do with 4.5". Mine chronographs Double Tap 200 gr. hardcast at 1315 fps. A 357 with 4" barrel or less won't do that. A 6" barrel will match it. An 8" or longer barrel will beat it. But I'll carrry a rifle before carrying a handgun that big.

Since the Glock is an auto, the overall length is is about equal to a 3" SP101. The Glock will also be considerably lighter and easier to carry. Couple that with 16 rounds and you have something.

If I were buying a handgun to hunt with I'd still go revolver because there is a bit more long range accuracy. But the G-20 is no slouch. I can consistently make head shots on a human target out to 50 yards.

Strykervet
January 4, 2012, 08:46 PM
I love my tens. I have a G20, a G29, and a 1006. For a woods pistol, any of them would suffice, with the G29 lending itself well to conceal carry otherwise --I can IWB it just as easy as a G27. It is the best all around really, if I could only have one that would be it. The 1006 is the most powerful, can handle the most powerful loads, but the G20 ain't no joke either and with 15 rounds it is something else. The 10mm will work on anything alive in the 48 states (and Hawaii too, but in Alaska you need different gear). The Hornady 200gr. FMJ's will give the most penetration, the 180 Gold Dots the most violent expansion. At full 10mm velocities, the lighter bullets probably don't hold up well, they work best in .40's. 180 XTP's and 200 XTP's are real accurate and they expand, but penetrate best of all the 10mm JHP's. The power for the 10mm actually lies between the .357 and .41 mags for most rounds, especially when barrel length is considered, and usually the 180's generate the most energy; I've never gotten a 155 fast enough to surpass it, and 155's just aren't the best in tens. I've clocked 180gr. Gold Dots at 1344fps with no sign of problems in the brass. Know that factory ammo is watered down for the most part, 10mm is a handloader's round.

They make 200 and 220 grain (I think) hard cast lead bullets. I bet those would do the trick no doubt, but you'd need a 1006 or similar to handle heavy loads with lead bullets. I wouldn't trust a Glock with those, but the Glock shines with the heavy Hornady bullets, and those will be more than enough I bet.

Off track, but if you want light, Smith and Wesson makes a new .44mag scandium frame, stainless cylinder "Backpacker" or "Alaskan" or whatever. I checked it out, it is pretty nice, good trigger, light, and with a 3" or so barrel, nice and compact. Great for hiking. The 329PD looks nice too, I want one, but beware, those light revolvers have BRUTAL recoil.

Then again, my .357 6" 686+ drives lead at some ridiculous speeds, but you have to use the slow burning N110 to get 'em that fast. Either one will work, but if you handload and like semi autos, a G20 or G29 is a lot of fun.

Casefull
January 4, 2012, 09:03 PM
My 180 XTP 357 handloads will exit my 6.5in Blackhawk at 1400+ fps.

I would be impressed if most could outshoot that Ruger at 50yrds with a Glock

I have a 6 inch wolf barrel on my g20 in 40sw. It puts out a 180g xtp at 1430fps with about half the powder you need with your 357. That is a chronoed load not from a book. It will push the 180 at 1500 with the 4.5inch barrel in 10mm. I shoot 44 magnum and 454 casul and the 10mm is not the equal of the 44 but is definitely between the 357 and the 44mag.

357 Terms
January 4, 2012, 09:10 PM
Have you actually chronographed this load or are you just going off what the manual says the velocity should be?



I have a chrony and have been loading for years! Thousands of rounds and many, many different powders and bullets.

If you doubt me just check for yourself.

357 Terms
January 4, 2012, 09:14 PM
I have a 6 inch wolf barrel on my g20 in 40sw. It puts out a 180g xtp at 1430fps

180grn .40 at 1430fps?.....wear eye protection!

MCgunner
January 4, 2012, 09:37 PM
Which is more powerful, .357 vs 10, comes down to barrel length, really. I handload, but would hate to chase 10mm brass around. That's one thing I don't like about autos. My carry autos are in common calibers, 9x19 and .45ACP, and I usually come home with more brass than I left with. 10 would NOT be that way, I'm afraid.

I prefer revolvers for field carry, anyway, either single or double action, no matter. A K frame .357 is all I'll ever need. I have a .45 Colt Blackhawk, but there are no griz anywhere I've been hiking. .357 is plenty.

Another reason I prefer revolvers for outdoor guns is accuracy. GENERALLY (I know, I have a Ruger KP90DC that will refute this statement) are more accurate than autos. The one G20 I've fired was an accurate, if large, gun. My fav 4" Taurus 66 is a 1" at 25 yards gun. Shoots pleasing little clusters with .38 Wadcutter or 140 Speer JHP, and a certain Hornady XTP 180 JHP load. It'll shoot all my fave handloads under 2". That's as good as I can shoot a gun from a bench. The revolver is probably more accurate, but my eyes aren't with iron sights. To kill something, one first must HIT it. :D A sitting rabbit at 25 yards makes for tasty camp meat (been there, done that) with a .38 round that accurate. With a 10 that's 4" at 25 accurate, maybe not. Accuracy is in the gun, of course, and poor accuracy is NOT a Glock trait in my experience, but I have no experience with EEA. Now, a 10mm 1911 that can shoot 2" 25 yard groups will also be picky about ammo and cleanliness as well as lubrication.

But, then, a bear at 25 yards and closing would be a big target and a high cap, fast firing auto might be more to your liking. It's all in the needs and wants, but for me, revolvers get it done afield.

MCgunner
January 4, 2012, 09:45 PM
My 180 XTP 357 handloads will exit my 6.5in Blackhawk at 1400+ fps.

Same here, 13.8 grains AA#9 and a 180 XTP. I get, IIRC, 1402 fps average 10 shots, about 785 ft lbs. It's also VERY accurate. This is my .357 hunting revolver/load. I have carried it afield, but a k frame is a might easier on the hip on a long hike.

This load puts a hog down RIGHT NOW put in the boiler room. :D

BTW, this load pretty much duplicates Buffalo Bore's results. I'm not sure why anyone would doubt it. :rolleyes: The .41 magnum can reach over 1000 ft lbs, is in a higher class than 10 or .357. 10 and .357 are ballistically fraternal twins. Like I say, though, it does depend on barrel length. Get down under 4" and .357 starts to lose steam fast.

K1500
January 4, 2012, 10:37 PM
I like my G20sf more than my .357's or .44's for most woods use. I have the 329pd and it is nice to carry but hard to shoot well for me. The G20 is the most accurate Glock I have shot and hits harder than a .357 with 15+1 capacity, more rugged action, and a flatter carry profile. What's not to like?

rcmodel
January 4, 2012, 10:42 PM
Like I said.
It throws it's 3 for a $1.00 empty cases in the Poison Ivy bushes!

Alright!
Just playing devils advocate with everyone.

I carry a Glock 23 a lot in the woods.

But we don't have Griz or T-Rex here, and .40 S&W cases are a dime a dozen, or free.

rc

Skribs
January 5, 2012, 01:38 AM
So if you don't reload...what's not to like?

jmr40
January 5, 2012, 10:19 AM
It throws it's 3 for a $1.00 empty cases in the Poison Ivy bushes!



No ivy bushes at the range. I can find 99% of my brass without much problem. If I'm shooting to save my life, finding my brass is of no concern.

Actually the 40, 9mm, 45, or almost anything is as good as the 10mm for most situations.

When I carry a gun in the woods, it is for exactly the same reason I carry one in town. My main concern is SD from other humans. My 1st criteria is a gun that will work well in that role. That is why I'm not a huge fan of big heavy large bore revolvers even as an outdoors gun. That might be a better choice in grizzly country, but you wouldn't want a 6" 44 mag on your hip in town.

I spend a lot of time hiking and camping in very remote places here in GA and parts of TN and NC. If there are no black bear in the area, I'm most likely to carry either a G-26 or G19. In bear areas the G20 is only slightly larger, and certainly much smaller and lighter than almost any revolver. It works quite well against the primary threat, humans, but offers 16 rounds of hot 357 mag performance in the very rare chance of a bear encounter.

A smaller 357 mag is my 2nd choice, and not really that bad. The ammo capacity is where the auto wins though. In many places where I would be there is no cell service and I'd be a 2 day hike to a road and help if a situation arises.

MCgunner
January 5, 2012, 12:06 PM
No ivy bushes at the range. I can find 99% of my brass without much problem. If I'm shooting to save my life, finding my brass is of no concern.

You don't consider a revolver capable? :rolleyes: Does it take you 16 rounds to hit something? Do you think a bear is going to give you enough time to even spray and pray 16 rounds before he's on you? Just wondering.


So if you don't reload...what's not to like?

Well, price of ammo? Just a guess. How about finding ammo loaded to the 10s potential, not some watered down FBI .40S&W equivalent load? How's about finding ammo at a LGS at all? :D Just some thoughts.

Personally, I will own no Glock. They're accurate, don't like the "safe action" nor the fact that they won't shoot my hand cast bullets, polygonal rifling. I shoot 90 percent my own cast stuff and my revolvers work fine with 'em. My hot cast bullet is a gas checked Lee SWC that weighs 165 grains with the gas check attached. I push it along at 1470 fps from my Blackhawk, a little less from my 4" Taurus 66. Accurate load and using range scrap, they cost me under 3 bucks a box. But, then, I DO reload.

Inebriated
January 5, 2012, 02:01 PM
Appreciate the responses and discussions! Reading every post!

wow6599
January 5, 2012, 02:14 PM
Third, I reload, and revolvers don't chuck .30 cents ea. empty brass into the poison ivy where I can't find it.

This is exactly why I got out of 10mm. I would get upset after firing a couple hundred rds and only find 150 pieces of "precious" brass. If if was more widely available, or not so expensive, I would still be all over the 10mm cartridge.

Now it's a Ruger and Marlin combo in .357 for the woods......

hardluk1
January 5, 2012, 02:35 PM
There are loads that will use a 180gr at high 1600fps+ 357 mag loads. But you do Not want to shot them in a mid size S&W. They are ment for 8"+ barrels sw model 27 maybe, dw and freedom to squeeze out the extra velocity . But all loading bs aside the 10mm makes for a good trail or woods defence handgun, high capacity and light weight. For hunting dangerous game it will need a barrel change for hard cast bullets or lead for soft loads. It would be nice to have a better barrel in general when talking about maxed loads an a glocks unstupported chambers.. If hunting a like loaded 357 simply has better down range ballistics too.

Many revolvers could shoot 3" groups at 100yards given a good shooter on a optic site.

Buy for the intended primary purpose. Different calibers and handgun designs for different jobs.

Reality a 158gr nosler sp at 1300 fps will do the job on any deer, bear or hog in NC with in bow hunting ranges, 40 yards. 165gr xtp 10mm hp should do the same thang at 1300fps. need more power buy a big boy magnum. I never messed with loading a 10mm but have loaded 357's to 1680fps with 180gr lswcgc in my 8" DW. Did nothing better than the same bullet at 1200 fps except make the revolver way more unmanageable with the hotter rounds. That is not a fun load.

Skribs
January 5, 2012, 03:26 PM
You don't consider a revolver capable? Does it take you 16 rounds to hit something? Do you think a bear is going to give you enough time to even spray and pray 16 rounds before he's on you? Just wondering.

I personally don't see an ADVANTAGE to the revolver for someone like me in this situation. I don't reload, so the brass isn't an issue. Ammo price and availability are valid concerns. At Cabelas, a G20 and a GP100 (which is what I would go with if I got a revolver) are within $50 of each other, with the Glock being the cheaper one. Accuracy on both, if I am carrying them, is going to be better than what I can personally shoot.

So...you also bring up the point that the advantages of a Glock won't apply in this situation, either (mainly the capacity). The weight is a comfort issue.

At that point, it boils down to personal preference. I prefer semi-autos to revolvers unless I am CCW under a t-shirt.

Loosedhorse
January 5, 2012, 05:21 PM
I personally don't see an ADVANTAGE to the revolverIf you're anticipating using a handgun against an attacking animal, recall that revolvers don't go out of battery on muzzle-contact shots, and don't jam if the slide is in contact with something.

Other than that, I like the 10 in a G20 or G29 for outdoors. Or indoors. As long as there aren't any big bears in either place.

dprice3844444
January 5, 2012, 05:24 PM
http://www.mechtechsys.com/glock.php glock rifle

Skribs
January 5, 2012, 05:27 PM
Good point LH. Springfield needs a 10mm XDM.

Also, revolvers can't use the .50 GI conversion kit if you want to. Even though 99.99% of Glock 20 owners probably don't (I would).

jem375
January 5, 2012, 05:52 PM
deleted

Casefull
January 5, 2012, 08:34 PM
Hope you got the info you wanted. Unfortunately it is impossible to state any facts without stepping on someones ego. The fact that the only way to dispute the positives of the 10mm is to drag revolvers into the discussion. When you have to change the context you have already blown it. I have no dog in the fight because I have gone from revolvers to autos and shoot both. My casull revolver has unmatched workmanship and is very powerful and accurate...so what. The op asked about 10mm. It all reminds me of high school boys talking about how fast their cars are. In case anyone noticed the military and police left the revolver scene a lifetime ago. But what do they know.

Loosedhorse
January 5, 2012, 08:44 PM
When you have to change the context you have already blown it.No one has changed the context. The context was "outdoors," and the OP mentioned "a K-frame has 6 or 7 rounds of .357".

There are reasons that backwoods guns are traditionally revolvers, and even the 10mm doesn't change those. Sorry if your ox got gored.

.338Sako
January 5, 2012, 08:48 PM
for my g20 I use truglow tfo (tritium fiber optic) best of both worlds imho

jmr40
January 5, 2012, 08:55 PM
You don't consider a revolver capable?

Read the whole post, I said,

A smaller 357 mag is my 2nd choice, and not really that bad.

I also said:

When I carry a gun in the woods, it is for exactly the same reason I carry one in town. My main concern is SD from other humans. My 1st criteria is a gun that will work well in that role.

A large framed, long barreled revolver is an excellent hunting tool, and I said so in an earlier post. But that would be a poor choice for CC when in town. A smaller 357 would be better and could do double duty in the rare event of a larger animal encounter. As would a semi that equals or beats the 357 revolver in power, and from a smaller, lighter package. Bear attacks are way down on my list of concerns, but there is no sense in not being prepared.

Does it take you 16 rounds to hit something? Do you think a bear is going to give you enough time to even spray and pray 16 rounds before he's on you? Just wondering.



My concern is not 16 rounds for a bear, but additional ammo in a remote situation where I'm totally on my own and possibly a 2 day walk from help if I needed to use my gun. But FYI, I would not stop shooting just because a bear is chewing on me. Which brings me to this gem.

revolvers don't go out of battery on muzzle-contact shots, and don't jam if the slide is in contact with something.



If you are close enough for this to be a probelm with a semi, you are close enough for the cylinder to bind and not turn or to get animal fur between the hammer and frame. Pick your poison, either could malfunction.

Not that the 357 mag revolver is a bad choice, it isn't. I choose a G-20 for this role based on several factors. I've had WAY more revolvers malfunction on me than Semi's. Glocks in particular. Revolvers are especially prone to problems involving dirty conditions encountered in the outdoors. The G-20 is about the same size and weight as a 3" Ruger SP101, with better ballistics than any 4" revolver. Holding 3X as much ammo is just a bonus.

The revolver wins on pure accuracy, and even on power if you want to carry a 6" or longer barrel. But as I stated in an earlier post I can keep all my shots on a human head sized target out to 50 yards. That is as much accuracy as I need.

Skribs
January 5, 2012, 09:00 PM
jmr, it's not QUITE 3x the amount of ammo. A G20 will hold, correct me if I'm wrong, 15+1, and the GP100 will hold 6 (6x3 = 18).

That said, I do agree with you, and I assume you rounded up :P

1stmarine
January 5, 2012, 09:32 PM
Think about what bullet you need. What speed you need in that bullet and then decide on what case /platform is the best for that goal.
The 10mm is a great cartridge but the venerable 357 bullets are hard to beat in terms of external and terminal ballistics.

Mike 27
January 5, 2012, 09:55 PM
I just got a glock 20 for christmas from my wife, and it is a replacment for my 357 woods gun here in Alaska. I say this with the exception of where I am going and time of year. In the summer I still will carry the .44 up in the white mountains. I like that little extra power with the bears out and about, but I am good for the rest of the year with the Glock. The 357 I love just so happened mine jumped time and a few other issues and had to go back for repairs, and I really did not trust it as a Alaska woods gun after those issues, that could have ended on a bad note.

Gtscotty
January 5, 2012, 10:04 PM
I wonder what kind of velocities you would get from that mechtech upper on a G20... hmmm very interesting...

.338Sako,

I've heard nothing but good things about those TFO's, I just wonder if Adjustable sights would be a must for hunting... I've been considering Meprolight adjustables, and Dawson Precision fiber optic adjustables...

Stevie-Ray
January 6, 2012, 01:06 AM
I've used 10mm for vacation/woods protection for over 20 years now. Only in the last few years have I switched my beloved Colt Delta Elite to a Glock 29, first to keep the Colt lovely and also the G29 is a touch more packable. I prefer the Double-Tap 200 gr, XTPs for my load, though I also reloaded the 10 for many years. I fully intend to reload again, as I move to the new house. Still have a ton of components.;)

TexasPatriot.308
January 6, 2012, 01:22 AM
autos, for combat, self defense, revolvers in big bore for hunting...

Loosedhorse
January 6, 2012, 11:00 AM
If you are close enough for this to be a probelm with a semi, you are close enough for the cylinder to bindYou might want to experiment a bit, as I have. The amount of pressure to take the slide out of battery, or to slow the slide enough to jam, is far less than the amount to keep a cylinder from turning. As to fur in the hammer, nothing's perfect--but generally the muzzle, not the hammer, faces toward the target!

:DI've had WAY more revolvers malfunction on me than Semi's. Glocks in particular. Revolvers are especially prone to problems involving dirty conditions encountered in the outdoors.My experience with revolvers is entirely opposite, finding them great in wet, dirty conditions (with reasonable care given, of course). I did have one that would cylinder-unlock in heavy recoil (during testing, before I took it out "for real"), but a new cylider locking bolt spring took care of that.

And even that revolver: if I pulled the trigger again, it went "bang". Nice jam reduction!

Skribs
January 6, 2012, 11:35 AM
I've seen more failures in my Dad's revolver than I have in my semi-autos.

R.W.Dale
January 6, 2012, 12:56 PM
I've had plenty ig failures with both.

I will say though that the revolver failures absolutely 100% knocked the gun out of commission until tools and time could be brought into play.

posted via tapatalk using android.

sargents1
January 6, 2012, 01:18 PM
Hmmm, a non reloader?

The 357 has been loaded down considerably since its introduction.

Now let's talk about sectional density!...really.

My 180 XTP 357 handloads will exit my 6.5in Blackhawk at 1400+ fps.

I would be impressed if most could outshoot that Ruger at 50yrds with a Glock.

I Do handload, I just dont handload .357 (I have a .45colt Blackhawk and a G20, so I dont really need a 357).

I was thinking of the typical loads available that I have seen for 357 and many of those are 'stout' but not blazin'.

As for finding a 10mm load that pushes a 180gr bullet at 1400ft/s...I have heard OF those, but I haven't seen one yet. 1300ft/s, yes, maybe 1350ft/s, probably. But much faster than that and you risk blowing your gun up.

So I guess that the 357 is a bit more powerful than a 10mm. You learn something every day if you're not careful.

MCgunner
January 6, 2012, 08:01 PM
I never said the 10 was incapable. I just much prefer revolvers and the .357 cartridge for the reasons I've stated. And, I feel REAL sorry for those who won't handload, sorta. I mean, they're doing it to themselves, guess I shouldn't feel THAT sorry. Some folks LIKE doing it to themselves :D

My concern is not 16 rounds for a bear, but additional ammo in a remote situation where I'm totally on my own and possibly a 2 day walk from help if I needed to use my gun. But FYI, I would not stop shooting just because a bear is chewing on me. Which brings me to this gem.

I'll address this statement. If I want 16 rounds, I carry 'em in my fanny pack when I go afield, SA or DA wheelgun. For the wheelgun, I have both HKS speedloaders and Bianchi speed strips, or I can just carry 'em loose. I've never actually needed a round, though, in all the years I've hiked and backpacked except for light .38s (I always carry 'em and have the sight elevation screw marked for them) to take camp meat. Oh, I finished a charging hog once that had been wounded with a rifle and headed for cover. A .357 to the head put him down. I then had to sit for 5 minutes until the shakes quit.

All in a lifetime of fun, and it ain't over, yet. :D....I hope. Hell, I could keel over tomorrow, I guess. Remember, though, we're not talking about taking on the Iranian army here, just a hiking gun. The one thing I will say, though, is you might have a point down by the river (Rio Grande). I last hiked (last spring) Big Bend national park. I carried a 4" .357 because it's concealed carry only in national parks and it fit my fanny pack while my .308 wouldn't. The drug problem, mules, is huge along the border and I wanted something that would reach out. My .45 ain't so much a "reach out" gun. A 10, well, that would combine the reach with the firepower when fighting the cartels. LOL! Tongue in cheek on fighting drug gangs, avoid that if ya can. But, it's a legit reason to want an auto on a hike, methinks. Goes with the thread, right?

Whatever you wanna shoot, get out there and LIVE the life. :D I love the outdoors. For me, it's like going to church, seeing God's great creations and perhaps eating some of 'em. :D

Gtscotty
January 6, 2012, 08:14 PM
I love the outdoors. For me, it's like going to church, seeing God's great creations and perhaps eating some of 'em.

Agreed, well put!

dsb1829
January 7, 2012, 11:37 AM
Once I started shooting the 10mm I sold off my 357 magnums. They are both very capable cartridges, but for me the added capacity and lower weight are nice to tromp around the woods with. Yes, I am more accurate with a revolver set to SA, but if I pull my handgun in the woods it is going to be a SHTF scenario not a careful aim and fire.

MCgunner
January 7, 2012, 12:00 PM
Once I started shooting the 10mm I sold off my 357 magnums. They are both very capable cartridges, but for me the added capacity and lower weight

Dang, what 10 vs what .357 revolver? There's a 10 out there that is lighter than a 3" SP101? I didn't think there was even one lighter than a 4" M19, personally. G29 perhaps? How heavy is it? I know the EEA and the Smith are quite large and heavy and I've fired a G20, a big gun as Glocks go.

Hell, I like to carry single actions afield. If I have to draw on a threat, it's not going to be at the classic 7.5 yards. It's likely to be 25 or 50 and accuracy would be much more useful than firepower. I can make them work fast enough for any situation in the field and the SA trigger gets it done from a STRONG weapon that can handle heavy loads. My .45 Colt Blackhawk is a fave. It's stainless, but still light compared to other guns of its power, .44 magnums mostly.

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