call me Clark for the day


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MachIVshooter
January 4, 2012, 10:09 PM
but I will let ya'll know how my experiment works out.

I have decided to really push the envelope with .32 H&R, since it's such a low pressure cartridge and since the SP-101 can handle .327 mag. Maximum published data for 90 gr. bullets with Win. 231 is 4 grains, but I've used more than that in a .380 ACP. .32 H&R is bigger than 9x19mm in terms of case capacity, and I've run as much as 7.0 grs. 231 in 9mm with 90 gr. pills. Because of the short barrel on my SP-101, I decided against a heavy charge of slower powders like AA7 and H110.

So we're gonna see what 6.0 Grs. 231 does with Federal 100 primers and 90 gr. Sierra JHC's. I'm hoping to see 1,300-1,400 from the 3" barrel. I'll keep everyone posted!

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FROGO207
January 4, 2012, 11:09 PM
I have done the same thing with 38 SPL ramping them up to 357 loads for use in a 357. Just don't forget to label them so if you get hurt or such no one else will get hurt with them in a weak firearm.:D

Walkalong
January 5, 2012, 07:22 AM
Run hot loads in brass for the gun that can "take it", not the brass for the gun/s that cannot. Never can tell when they might get in the wrong gun.

MtnCreek
January 5, 2012, 07:23 AM
You going to work them up to 6 or just go for the gold?

45_auto
January 5, 2012, 08:04 AM
Hodgdon lists max load for a .327 Federal with a 90 grain Sierra as 6.1 grains of 231 at 1400 FPS.

Do you just doubt their data?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIi1Nw6GUZ4&feature=related

Seems to me that the only thing you're doing by sticking a .327F charge in a .32 H&R case is risking someone accidently blowing up their .32 H&R if they get one of your reloads. No different than using .38 Specials for .357 pressures, or .44 Specials for .44 Magnum pressures, or .45 Colt for .454 Casull pressures. It'll work with no problem, but what does it gain you?

PotatoJudge
January 5, 2012, 09:22 AM
The same could be said for Ruger only 45 Colt loads and lots of us do that without issue.

Walkalong
January 5, 2012, 09:53 AM
As I have, but I stand by my statement. :)

denton
January 5, 2012, 10:47 AM
The original 357 loads were developed in 38 Spl cases, setting the bullet farther out to give more case capacity. There is one brand of 357 bullet on the market with two cannelures, probably just for the sake of people who want to put 357 loads in 38 brass. The resulting cartridges are too long to put in a 38, so they are probably safe from that standpoint.

Case volume is case volume, whether you get it from a longer case or from seating the bullet farther out.

MtnCreek
January 5, 2012, 10:53 AM
Probably a dumb question, but what the heck…
Is the brass, specifically at the head/web, the same thickness in the mentioned cartridges (ie .38spl v .357)? Will that vary between manufacturers?
Thanks!

45_auto
January 5, 2012, 11:34 AM
The same could be said for Ruger only 45 Colt loads and lots of us do that without issue.

We've still got the issue that the Ruger only load could be used in a non-Ruger gun.

What you gain for taking that risk is higher performance than the standard load the other guns are designed for (45 Colt).

What the Op is doing is risking overloading the .32 H&R by 50% to get LESS performance than the round his gun is chambered for (.327F), just like loading .38 Special to almost .357 Mag performance, then using them in a .357.

No big deal if it makes you happy, I'm not going to shoot anything you load! :)

Clark
January 5, 2012, 12:46 PM
IMHO..

Some old straight wall cartridges get made a little longer and get registered at a higher pressure.
They made a mistake with the 32 H&R mag, in that it failed to take advantage of how high the pressure could be and still not get stuck cases. To exploit that margin, the case had to be lengthened and the pressure upped a second time to the 327 Fed Mag.
Revolvers with a 6 at once extractor can get stuck cases at ~ 40,000 psi, depending on the thickness of the steel chamber wall:


38 special -> 357 mag
44 special -> 44 mag
45 Colt -> 454 Casull
32 S&W long -> 32 H&R mag -> 327 Fed Mag


Here John Bercovitz does the math:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.guns/browse_frm/thread/68ca10110c80e7aa/f002ce69fa01e631

Clark
January 5, 2012, 12:57 PM
I dropped off a 32 S&W barrel for TIG welding last night, I hope it ready today.

This is the 3rd time I have been through this. Take a 100 year old Colt 32 S&W Long Police Positive revolver and run pressures at the threshold of sticky cases, and the paper thin forcing cone blows out.

Walkalong
January 5, 2012, 04:14 PM
Is the brass, specifically at the head/web, the same thickness in the mentioned cartridges (ie .38spl v .357)? No, and it has been discussed here on a few occasions. One thread was quite recent.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=115668&stc=1&d=1266202968

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=505485

MachIVshooter
January 5, 2012, 09:18 PM
What the Op is doing is risking overloading the .32 H&R by 50% to get LESS performance than the round his gun is chambered for (.327F),

My SP-101 is .32 H&R chambered. I still plan to ream it to .327, but not until one of the local smiths already has the reamer. Those things are expensive.

Both of my .32 H&R's are Rugers, but I probably won't use these in the single six.

45_auto
January 5, 2012, 09:27 PM
My SP-101 is .32 H&R chambered.

For some reason I had the impression that your SP-101 was chambered in .327 Federal. Now it makes a little more sense what you're doing!

Clark
January 5, 2012, 09:29 PM
This replaced the failed 1907 vintage steel with drill rod and is thicker. Back to the 327.

MtnCreek
January 6, 2012, 08:12 AM
Walkalong; No, and it has been discussed here.......

Thanks!

Clark
January 6, 2012, 07:20 PM
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I got it fixed and shot it.

Quickload thinks this is 1630 fps, if anyone cares.

Rollis R. Karvellis
January 6, 2012, 11:03 PM
I, have been reading Clark's post for years, so the loads, and work done in this post is not surprising. What is surprising is that he was able to get machine work done in a couple of days, and not months.

918v
January 7, 2012, 12:29 PM
Clark,

Has the frame stretched at all with your nuclear loads? Have you stretched any of these guns, especially the 38's?

Clark
January 7, 2012, 11:43 PM
I have a Colt Agent Aluminum frame 38 sp that stretched with a couple grains past max 357 published loads. That was 10 years ago, I got it shooting again last month by reading Keunhausen's book on double action Colts.

I was looking at 32 S&W Long again today, and I made a spacer [out of a slice of 8mm take off barrel] so the 32 S&W Long cartridge can fit upside down in a 308 Lee rifle factory crimp die. I put a neckless 308 case in the shell holder to power the collet in the die.

steve4102
January 8, 2012, 08:25 AM
QL predicts your 6gr of 231 at 1240fps, 41,645psi

FROGO207
January 8, 2012, 09:17 AM
I have a machinist friend that is a shooter/reloader that will humor me and build what I want in a short time for a low cost. I guess I never thought about it before but this is a good resource to have.:D I have in the past, attempted many things that would not be cost effective otherwise often with great success. I will buy old dies that are worn out and use them to make custom bullet/brass size/seat dies. 410 dies to fit a standard press and a custom shellholder with a large primer groove is one adventure that worked.

Clark
January 8, 2012, 02:30 PM
steve4102 QL predicts your 6gr of 231 at 1240fps, 41,645psi
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.


Quickload calculation that if we enter:
32 S&W Long
.5" long bullet
85 gr bullet
13 gr LIL'GUN powder
7.3" barrel
1.29" over all cartridge length

Then we get:
1,629 fps
28,433 psi

In a 19 ounce revolver, that is 22 fps of free firearm velocity and 9.7 foot pounds of recoil.

I made a video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE2aVfWJIKc

Walkalong
January 8, 2012, 03:00 PM
Very interesting. That is a serious crimp.

918v
January 8, 2012, 03:38 PM
Clark TV rocks!

MachIVshooter
January 10, 2012, 01:53 AM
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

QL predicts your 6gr of 231 at 1240fps, 41,645psi

Probably close on pressure, but I expect it'll be somewhat faster. I get 1,165 with published loads under a 90 grainer from the 3" tube.

6.8 grs. 231 under a 90 gr. pill in 9x19mm gave me 1,640 FPS from a 4.6" barrel. Yes, there's no cylinder gap and that's a heavier charge in a slightly smaller case, but I'm still betting on mid-1,300's for the .32 H&R.

We shall see on the next decent day I can get to the range!

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