Why do all lever action .22lr's lack the side loading port?


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The_Next_Generation
January 4, 2012, 11:07 PM
Hey guys,

I was wondering, why don't lever action .22 rifles have the ability to load from the side of the receiver like every other lever action?

I know some of the older ones from the 40's-70's have them, but why not the new ones?

Seems like such a better method than dealing with the little brass tube sliding out the front of the gun..

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l590/TNxtGen/37003_1324231274177_1482744116_30704385_1422381_n.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l590/TNxtGen/9422.jpg

Thanks in advance,

- TNG

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303tom
January 4, 2012, 11:14 PM
Round is to little !

rcmodel
January 4, 2012, 11:15 PM
Because if you put enough side pressure on a .22 RF cartridge to depress a spring loaded gate like on a centerfire lever-gun?

It would bend the .22RF cartridge in the middle and the bullets would all fall out in the magazine tube.

You can pop a .22RF bullet out of the case with your fingers by side pressure like that if you try hard enough.

rc

rallyhound
January 4, 2012, 11:28 PM
I always wished my centerfire levers would load from the end of the tube like my Henry 22

sixgunner455
January 4, 2012, 11:33 PM
rallyhound - Henry Big Boys load like that.

rcmodel - I think that if the loading gate had no more spring tension than a Ruger 10/22 rotary magazine, there wouldn't be much danger of that happening.

The size of the round, on the other hand, might preclude it from being a very good idea.

BCRider
January 4, 2012, 11:37 PM
I'm pretty sure rc' nailed it.

When a jam a center fire round the bullet may get dented but it stays in the case just fine. Do the same with a rimfire and more often than not the bullet is cockeyed and the round is no longer useable.

Jim Watson
January 4, 2012, 11:47 PM
I always wanted a box magazine bolt action .22 that would load from the top like a Mauser, too.

The 1891 Marlin .22 started out with a receiver loading gate. Not like a centerfire, but still a gate. They only made about 5000 before going to a slip tube that they and everybody else has used ever since.
http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/images/marlin-1891-deluxe-rifle/marlin-1891-deluxe-rifle-6.jpg

The Colt Lightning .22 was a side loader but it wasn't really a gate loader. The brass block rocked out to the side to expose a loading port.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=267958240

LoonWulf
January 4, 2012, 11:48 PM
im not sure youd really want to spend all afternoon stuffing 15 of those little rounds into the side of the receiver either. The tube makes loading the guns quicker and easier.

snakeman
January 5, 2012, 12:31 AM
isn't there also a risk of applying too much pressure to the rim of the cartridge

Davek1977
January 5, 2012, 06:32 AM
I'm inclined to think more like Rally....i MUCH prefer the loading tube method over the loading gate method.

jmr40
January 5, 2012, 06:48 AM
I always wished my centerfire levers would load from the end of the tube like my Henry 22

Loading from the tube removes the lever actions only real advantage over other actions. Being able to safely top off a magazine while leaving the gun loaded and ready to shoot.

I want no part of loading a gun while I'm looking down the barrel of a gun with a loaded chamber. The only safe way to load such a gun is to completely unload the gun first. Even then I've always been a little less comfortable loading the 22 lever guns I own working with my hands so close to the muzzle.

The loading gate is much better. I wish it were an option for 22 as well, but understand the limitations of the design.

MistWolf
January 5, 2012, 07:03 AM
The reason they don't have a side loading gate is because it's a rimfire.

I prefer a side loading gate over front end loaders. I get nervous having my fingers near the muzzle during the loading process. I also wonder what would happen if I should lose or bend the brass sleeve

JohnBT
January 5, 2012, 08:25 AM
You can get replacement tubes.

www.brownells.com/aspx/br/brownells.aspx?page_name=replacement-magazine-tubes

MMCSRET
January 5, 2012, 08:45 AM
The 22 Rimfire is a heel style bullet that is not securely crimped in the case. When you load a CF cartridge in the load gate it takes a lot of side pressure to open the gate and then the cartridge can go in. You, or I, can take our fingers and tip the bullet out of a 22 Long Rifle cartridge, it is easy, I'm sure that is a factor. I asked the same question back in 1953 or so, when I was enamored of the Lever guns my family had, but all the 22's, Marlin '97 and 39 loaded with a tube. My Grandfather showed me, explained, and then demonstrated with a Marlin '93 and a Marlin '39. Even at 8 years of age I could do it. Look at the Henry and Winchester '66, heel bullet in 44 Rimfire, even they loaded into a tube. Heel bullets are generally not as secure in the case.

DM~
January 5, 2012, 09:47 AM
I get nervous having my fingers near the muzzle during the loading process.


It doesn't bother me at all... I load after fireing a round, and leave the FIRED round in the chamber... The hammer is down, the chamber has a fired case in it, there's NO way it isn't safe to load it then. You also could leave the action open...

Personally, i really like tube feed guns, no lost magazines, and they hold plenty of ammo without something sticking out below the action. As those magazines stick out right where i put my hand to carry the rifle. Also, i like my 22's to be slim, not sit in my hand like a beached whale! (read Ruger 10/22)

DM

MistWolf
January 5, 2012, 08:27 PM
You can get replacement tubes.

www.brownells.com/aspx/br/brownells.aspx?page_name=replacement-magazine-tubes

Yep. But they won't do me any good if I bend one during a hunt. Just something I keep in mind during the loading process so I don't get in a hurry, do something stoopid and bend the brass tube sleeve.

It doesn't bother me at all... I load after fireing a round, and leave the FIRED round in the chamber... The hammer is down, the chamber has a fired case in it, there's NO way it isn't safe to load it then. You also could leave the action open...


Yep. I usually load my lever action 22s with the action open and have done so for many years. But I'll never be comfortable with my hand being so near the muzzle while pulling the tube out.

It's not that I refuse to use a front loading tube fed magazine, it's just that I find a side loading gate much more convenient

jaguarxk120
January 5, 2012, 08:33 PM
There's a very good chance that it is much cheaper manufacturing a lever action rifle with out the side loading gate.

The milling cuts take time and a machine operator that has skills. Fabbing a couple of magazine tubes is much simpler.

CaliCoastie
January 6, 2012, 05:30 PM
As far s being worried about bending the inner magazine tube, are you for real?? What are you trying to do with it? I have a few that are bent (I got them that way and I have always wondered how it happened),I have been using the tubular mag for over 20 years now and never came close to bending the tube.
As far as the first question, my thoughts are of the two things (easy bent, and prime our in the rim)I know that the gate can grab rims, it does with my 30-30 and 44 mag all the time. If you don't like loading at the range get some clear heavy duty tubing that just let's the 22's in cap one end, measure them out to hold (x)) amount and you can make some speed reloaders for cheap.

jmr40
January 6, 2012, 07:23 PM
The magazine on most guns is going to wear out before other parts. I have 2 Marlin 60's that are essentially single shots because the tubes have been taken in and out so many times they are worn out. I know I could get them fixed, but the guns are not worth the expense to me. I generally prefer a detachable mag on a 22.

I also have 2 1960's era Marlin 39M's. On one of them the tube is slighty damaged. It works OK as long as the mag spring has tension on it when loaded, but unloaded it wants to fall out if the muzzle is pointed down.

I get nervous having my fingers near the muzzle during the loading process.

It doesn't bother me at all... I load after fireing a round, and leave the FIRED round in the chamber... The hammer is down, the chamber has a fired case in it, there's NO way it isn't safe to load it then. You also could leave the action open...



I'll load only with the action open and with an empty magazine. Been doing it for over 40 years and I'm still uncomfortable. But it is really the only way. Almost any gun accident happens when several safety rules are overlooked. Most of the time accidents result in no injuries if just 1 rule is violated. Having to load with the muzzle pointed in the general direction of my body is already 1 rule violation. It is always the "unloaded" gun that kills someone.

gunlover_06
January 6, 2012, 08:20 PM
The magazine on most guns is going to wear out before other parts. I have 2 Marlin 60's that are essentially single shots because the tubes have been taken in and out so many times they are worn out. I know I could get them fixed, but the guns are not worth the expense to me. I generally prefer a detachable mag on a 22.

I also have 2 1960's era Marlin 39M's. On one of them the tube is slighty damaged. It works OK as long as the mag spring has tension on it when loaded, but unloaded it wants to fall out if the muzzle is pointed down.



I'll load only with the action open and with an empty magazine. Been doing it for over 40 years and I'm still uncomfortable. But it is really the only way. Almost any gun accident happens when several safety rules are overlooked. Most of the time accidents result in no injuries if just 1 rule is violated. Having to load with the muzzle pointed in the general direction of my body is already 1 rule violation. It is always the "unloaded" gun that kills someone.
Want to sell those 2 single shot model 60's

Malamute
January 6, 2012, 09:02 PM
I used to wonder the same thing. I think the biggest issue is the catridges are too small to manipulate easly. My hands are about average size, but I find even the 44 mag catridges to be a nuisance to load in a 92 Winchester action compared to a 45-70 or 30-30.


The 22 Rimfire is a heel style bullet that is not securely crimped in the case. When you load a CF cartridge in the load gate it takes a lot of side pressure to open the gate and then the cartridge can go in..... Look at the Henry and Winchester '66, heel bullet in 44 Rimfire, even they loaded into a tube. Heel bullets are generally not as secure in the case.


Well, actually, the 66 Winchester loaded thru the side gate. That was the primary difference from a Henry, and allowed the magazine tube to be closed, and a wood fore end to be used. In fact at first, many people called them a Kings improved Henry (King was the guy that patented the side loading gate). Same 44 rimfire cartridge, I think they held up better than the 22 rimfires tho.

As far as loading tube feed 22's, do most folks take the tube clear out and load from the front, or leave it partly in and load thru the cartridge shaped cutout? I tend to take the tube out, hold it in my teeth or in my left hand with the gun, and load with my right hand. Keeping the shells in my pocket (hopefully pretty clean) speeds up loading. When a kid, we used to go thru a 500 rd brick each about very time we went out to shoot, sometimes two bricks. There weren't the 500 rd bulk packs, they pretty much all came in 50 rd cardboard boxes. A couple boxes in your back pocket speeded up loading a tube feed rifle. We were usually out walking in the woods along the riverbank while shooting, or set up at one spot to shoot at the big hill. Surprising how fast you can shoot up 500 rounds in a tube feed gun.

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