Why can't guns just be for fun?


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gfpd707
January 5, 2012, 05:40 AM
I have firearms that I would use in defense of my life but I also have many that are mostly for fun. It seems that many people only focus on the serious use of firearms. For example they will state that "when your heart is racing you will not be able to operate those controls due to your loss of fine motor skills". I also hear " the grips on that weapon are too slick if your hands are sweating or covered in blood". I know this may anger some people but I have many guns that are toys. I would not use these firearms in a serious situation. I just think that too many people are getting wrapped up in being tactical or worrying about self defense. Sometimes you just need to relax and have fun. Not every gun you own has to be so serious.

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guyfromohio
January 5, 2012, 06:36 AM
Agreed. There is this myth that if you go to the range with anything but your carry weapon, you're doing something wrong. My friends golf. I shoot.

Snowdog
January 5, 2012, 06:49 AM
Half the firearms I own I would never dream of using for defense, so I'd agree with you.

Personally, I find old military surplus and even black powder percussion and flintlocks the most fun to shoot. I can guarantee you I'd never consider my Pietta 1858 Remington or Pedersoli 1805 Harper's Ferry pistol my "go-to" for anything, but they sure are fun to shoot.

Jason_W
January 5, 2012, 07:06 AM
Even my "tactical" guns are for fun, including the "fun" that goes along with hunting. It's likely a function of the role guns played during my formative years. In my neck of the woods, the primary function of firearms was taking game animals (if you were very good or lucky) or punching holes in tin cans. The fact that guns could be applied for tactical purposes was a very faint and distant thought.

While the whole combat training, being constantly in condition yellow, thing has it's place, it does get a little draining and I wonder how many would-be new shooters are put off and intimidated by that prevailing mentality.

bannockburn
January 5, 2012, 07:33 AM
gfpd707

I would also agree with your premise that there's way too much emphasis (and hype), as to the tactical application of so many guns, while the recreational aspect is often downplayed or overlooked completely. I enjoy plinking with my .22LR guns, hunting with my shotguns, and target shooting with my single action revolvers.

50 cal
January 5, 2012, 08:30 AM
I agree. Most of my guns are fun guns. I never really thought about using my beltfed ma duece for home defense.

fpgt72
January 5, 2012, 08:35 AM
When you really get down to looking at the numbers 99.9% of firearms held by John Q. Public are never going to be used for a defense situation....and that number would be higher if you think about legal guns. There are a great many people that are interested in guns that are....well....just a little nutty. Do I keep a gun next to my bed and in my living room...yes, but that is more for the coyote that gets too close then anything else.

I think this has gotten a little more in the for front with all the attn. that CCW and black rifles are getting lately. 10-12 years ago I do not remember all of this self defense stuff that is running around.

I too will expect to draw flack, but when you think about the number of firearms off all kinds sold the number used to do bad things is pretty small. I know the only thing I have ever shot has been pests around the farm...most times the only thing that dies around my house is pop cans.

Sam1911
January 5, 2012, 08:41 AM
Different tastes for different people. Different purposes for different guns.

Sometimes folks assume something because of the nature of the gun you're discussing (or shooting), especially if your interests in it lie outside its original intended uses.

If you're shooting a .458 double rifle, it isn't surprising that someone might ask about your plans for an African hunt.

If you're shooting a 1911 or Glock, someone might realistically assume you intend it for defensive and/or competition uses.

If you're shooting a .454 Super Blackhawk, someone might want to talk about hunting with a revolver.

If you just own those guns as range toys, that's fine, you just might find yourself having to say so occasionally as people associate them with certain purposes -- not as pop-can plinkers.

If you're out blasting with a Desert Eagle .50, or plinking with a Ruger Mk. II, or target shooting with your Anschutz and someone starts yammering about how they aren't optimal for combat or self-defense -- :rolleyes: -- just pat them on the head and tell them to "run along and play, the adults are busy here." ;)

lowerunit411
January 5, 2012, 08:46 AM
I have guns for hunting and some for just plinking and some for self and home defense and a few just beacuse and they are all fun. I never really got in to the tactical mind set. The first tactical weapon that i was ever responsible for was a McDonnell F4H-1 Phantom II. Unfortunately, they didnt let me keep it...........ill just have to take my chances with the zombie apocolypse.

Carl N. Brown
January 5, 2012, 08:46 AM
I was originally a "sporting purposes" and "curio, ornament or keepsake" gun owner for years until personal discussions with two city detectives and a corrections officer in the 1970s convinced me self-defense was vital.

I have three guns (two revolvers, shotgun) as designated home defense weapons. Of the guns I shoot in the modern and vintage military matches--Mosin-Nagant, Yugo M70AB2, M1 carbine, CZ52, AO 1911 clone, C96--I would consider using as a weapon only the 1911 (shot the .45 in qualification for handgun carry permit). I think of the military guns as collectibles. Most of my guns are keepsakes, field guns (although I haven't been hunting in years) or "range toys" recreational use only.

Bobson
January 5, 2012, 09:01 AM
I've actually only been to a range with defensive training in mind a handful of times in my life, and each time was while I was working in the AF. Every time I've ever gone to the range on my own, I was just there to have fun. So for me, shooting with defense in mind is something I'm looking forward to doing because its going to be a change of pace. I expect it to be fun, at least for a while. :p

Carl N. Brown
January 5, 2012, 09:01 AM
The first tactical weapon that i was ever responsible for was a McDonnell F4H-1 Phantom II. Unfortunately, they didnt let me keep it....

That is a crying shame. As I understand it, after the Civil War, most veterans were allowed to keep their service weapon. Given that the gov't replaces and upgrades periodically, that made more sense than stockpiling obsolete, used weapons.

rondog
January 5, 2012, 09:05 AM
I agree, 99% of my guns are for my entertainment. One of my biggest pet peeves is the gun snobs that have to run down what other people buy on the "I'd never trust my life to that pos" nonsense. Too many guys act like every gun you own is supposed to be tactical and combat-worthy. I shoot for fun, not combat. But if combat should come around, I've got guns for that too.

kbbailey
January 5, 2012, 09:09 AM
You're right! Most of my shooting, by far, has been at clay pigeons....just for fun.

valnar
January 5, 2012, 09:09 AM
At the risk of getting flamed, a lot of gun people are at fault. In fact, I'm surprised one of them hasn't shown up in this thread yet.

Every time somebody brings up "guns are fun" or "guns are range toys", some meathead makes it their mission to come into the thread and beat the person down and say "no gun is a toy" or "all guns are dangerous". It's like they don't have a funny bone in their body - all serious and no play. You see the same mentality in the Zombie ammo threads. I know THR prides itself on being a serious gun forum, but it also can make it pretty sterile. It's a turnoff to some people - especially noobies.

Now, I'm not saying they are wrong. Guns are certainly dangerous, but it doesn't help our cause to be so heavy all the time.

/my 2 cents

JohnBT
January 5, 2012, 09:13 AM
We need color-coded name tags for range use so we know who to talk to.

I had a grad school professor way back when who thought this up for conferences:

White - I'm serious, talk to me about business
White/Red - Let's get a drink and talk some shop
Red - Give me a beer/where's the women at?

Blackstone
January 5, 2012, 09:14 AM
Guess what I've found the #1 argument for gun control is in the UK: Guns were designed to kill people and should all be banned. If you want to have fun, do something else.

dannyr3_8
January 5, 2012, 09:17 AM
I agree. Most of my guns are fun guns. I never really thought about using my beltfed ma duece for home defense.
i am so jealous of you

x_wrench
January 5, 2012, 09:18 AM
guns are for fun. some have a dual or even triple purpose (hunting and or self defense), but even the most serious of guns can also be used for fun. if all we did was use guns seriously, then most people would only have a few guns in their home. this is NOT to be confused with TAKING GUNS SERIOUSLY. because if you do not, someone will most likely get hurt, or dead. my guess is that 90% of the ammo shot in this country is shot in fun. and the rest is divided into law enforcement / practice, actual self defense, and hunting. if everyone in America quit having fun with their guns, every single firearm manufacturer in the USA would shut their doors, and all but one or two ammo manufacturing facilities as well.

valnar
January 5, 2012, 09:19 AM
We should also eliminate archery, javelin throwing, Karate and boxing. All those were designed to hurt people too.

lowerunit411
January 5, 2012, 09:20 AM
valnar...dont forget fighting stars....should be banned

Hoppes Love Potion
January 5, 2012, 09:23 AM
You have to realize that most new shooters (and there are millions of them) get a gun because they want to CC or defend their home. They get a Glock or a .38 snubby and call it good.

The "fun" guns come later, or not at all.

Deus Machina
January 5, 2012, 09:36 AM
Well, of course my CCW and my 'practical' AK are made to be used with adrenaline going, hands bloodsoaked, and memorized and built for use in the dark, under incoming fire, with the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man rampaging down the street.

Outside of that? I could defend myself with anything else I own, but in that same vein I could defend my life by swinging a Wii remote around.

The closest thing to a 'toy' I have is my Marlin Model 60, and that's in a polished stock with no checkering, stored unloaded, and requires that rounds be fed one at a time through a hole in the magazine tube that will routinely put your hand directly in front of the muzzle. Not exactly what I would call a military arm.

Fun guns are great, but I personally find the mechanics of a weapon or the actual shooting time more fun than the upkeep and challenge of using it.

Carl N. Brown
January 5, 2012, 09:41 AM
Angry Han,Post # 17, I noticed that line from Rebecca Peters (IANSA) in the Kings College Debate with Wayne LaPierre (NRA) over whether the US Senate should approve the UN gun treaty.

Between the "sporting purposes" clause in the our US 1968 GCA and the rising support for defensive gun use (Heller and MacDonald SCOTUS decisions), sporting use is inshrined in US federal law, and self-defense is gaining in legal recognition, so we got two bases covered.

If you take the designed as weapon should be used only as weapon to its logical extreme, we should tell Olympic athletes "That javelin ain't no sporting toy. You should be practicing Spartan tactical with targets in the likeness of Xerxes. Or be banned."

Sam1911
January 5, 2012, 09:43 AM
...we should tell Olympic athletes "That javelin ain't no sporting toy. You should be practicing Spartan tactical with targets in the likeness of Xerxes. Or be banned."


Wow! You mean the Olympics could be relevant, interesting, and worth watching again?

Zoogster
January 5, 2012, 10:08 AM
lowerunit411 dont forget fighting stars....should be banned

They are in California, a felony to possess a ninja star.

I had to break the news to a teenager that got his first job and was learning to operate a milling maching that his very first project that he was proudly showing off to friends and family was a felony to possess and he should get rid of it.



Even though I think you would have a difficult time finding any record of one actually used by criminals.

Several ninja weapons are banned in California. I believe it goes back to the days when Asian immigrants were used like illegal Mexican immigrants are today. As inexpensive labor to work fields, build railroads, etc
They didn't want the help to have weapons.
Being low income segments of the population I am sure they had their violent crime as well, I recall California's first ban on unlicensed concealed carry mentioning it was passed under the pretense of stopping Hispanic and Asian gangs from being armed in the 1920s.
At that point other citizens could all readily get concealed carry permits, and it was just used to prohibit the undesirables from being armed. Over time the public in general without special connections became the undesirables and they ceased to be issued to most people.


Over on this forum you can read cops discussing how someone was arrested and charged with a felony just for possessing one, during a search the individual had consented to, merely to increase their arrest stats, a common practice of those that want to rise through the ranks:

http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?137607-Throwing-star

Apparently it was some guy from Arizona who probably had no idea of the ban on ninjas.
However he should have! After all California is a lot more restrictive than Arizona, and even Arizona doesn't like ninjas:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8K9oqhaXTo

CajunBass
January 5, 2012, 10:12 AM
I'm a fairly old guy. Back a few years ago, I went through an IPSC phase where everything was serious. That got old in a hurry, not to mention I found out the guys where were serious about it were GOOD. I didn't belong there.

These days, I don't "train." I can't even say I "practice." I just go shooting. You might say "Well, you'll never get any better...and that's probably true. But I have fun.

And I have just as much fun prowling gun shows and shops looking for a gun I might never shoot, as I do shooting them. Most of the time, I don't even know I'm looking for them.

DAP90
January 5, 2012, 10:20 AM
Short answer is they can be and I’d bet most people on THR have some for just that purpose.

A better answer would be people like guns and want to talk about them with other like minded people. Self defense is great way to do that. It’s a serious, technical subject that anyone can participate in. It has lots to learn and discuss, yet it has a low barrier to entry; essentially the cost of a gun. It also happens to be real world applicable.

Not everyone can participate in hunting or competition due to expense or access.

SleazyRider
January 5, 2012, 10:29 AM
I'm a fairly old guy. Back a few years ago, I went through an IPSC phase where everything was serious. That got old in a hurry, not to mention I found out the guys where were serious about it were GOOD. I didn't belong there.

These days, I don't "train." I can't even say I "practice." I just go shooting. You might say "Well, you'll never get any better...and that's probably true. But I have fun.

And I have just as much fun prowling gun shows and shops looking for a gun I might never shoot, as I do shooting them. Most of the time, I don't even know I'm looking for them.
Great post. And here I was beginning to feel lonely!

TennJed
January 5, 2012, 10:30 AM
I agree with the op completely. Unfortunately too many people look down on others and People who are not like them.

I asked the other day on this and other forums how much fun a Taurus judge was. I got a lot of responses that let me know a judge could not be fun because it was a Taurus and/or the gun was a poor self defense gun. Responses that completely ignore my original question.

So I guess guns can be fun if they are from companies I like and are from weapons I approve of

fpgt72
January 5, 2012, 10:33 AM
I'm a fairly old guy. Back a few years ago, I went through an IPSC phase where everything was serious. That got old in a hurry, not to mention I found out the guys where were serious about it were GOOD. I didn't belong there.

These days, I don't "train." I can't even say I "practice." I just go shooting. You might say "Well, you'll never get any better...and that's probably true. But I have fun.

And I have just as much fun prowling gun shows and shops looking for a gun I might never shoot, as I do shooting them. Most of the time, I don't even know I'm looking for them.
This sounds a bit like me. Funny thing is that I still do compete, but I only do it for fun....for something different, I am pretty old too, and due to some health problems I don't get up and down very fast...so anything that requires moving from a standing, or running around I just don't do well. I don't even call them competitions....I call them games. For some reason that ruffles feathers.

Axel Larson
January 5, 2012, 10:42 AM
The gun I am having the most fun with right now is a single barrel 20 gauge H& R, but if it were the gun I had I would use for defense. So I would say that any gun can be fun if you have fun with it, I personally have found out that I love shooting clays, but that does not mean that all guns have more than one role.
I also agree that some people become a little too serious sometimes. I have been told that if I am shooting my CCW than I should practice moving and shooting or taking cover. Well most of the time I want improve my shooting skills and focus on grip, stance etc not something else, to those that do practice that, good for you and I may do so also at some point but I want tighter groups at 50 yards with my 1911 first.
PS the Judge could be a lot of fun and is a great snake gun.

Walkalong
January 5, 2012, 10:45 AM
Why can't guns just be for fun?
Who said they could not?

I have way more fun guns than serious guns. I hope I never have to use any of them seriously, but it pays to be ready if you are forced to by a criminal act. :)

jetflyr
January 5, 2012, 10:47 AM
I too have have taken to the "tactical" shooting as another fun way to practice. I practice with my carry pistols a lot but would rather use my full sized pistols or plink with a 22LR. I bought the guns for range fun first and foremost. But I do keep a couple of them loaded in the safe in the off chance someone were to "let themselves in". Of course I may reach for a heavy object in the kitchen. They're just no fun at the range. And my accuracy sucks.

Walkalong
January 5, 2012, 10:50 AM
dont forget fighting stars
I have a throwing star. It is fun, but I would never try to defend myself with it. Seriously.

Ryanxia
January 5, 2012, 10:51 AM
I'd say 2/3 of my collection are for fun or because they're cheap to shoot :)

AFDavis11
January 5, 2012, 11:05 AM
I have used guns for serious business, primarily. I can't even find an open range near my house! Not only do we use guns for fun, but the overall perception that people that use guns for defense are shaking, hand bloodied, adrenal dumping incoherent idiots seems to be a little overblown and generalized. It's a pretty common concern though, not really a forum problem. I am really enjoying reading this forum.

There are many forum members here, as well as a few ornery elderly Grandmothers that I read about, that seem to use guns very effectively.

My concern is that I was always taught that a defensive situation is a time when you MUST keep your cool and you MUST react effectively. It was that training that effectively ensured I maintained my cool under pressure.

One problem is the connection between defense and the natural assumption that follows that using a gun for defense means you are reacting, and deep behind the reaction curve, likely already shot.

I personally am much more concerned with lightly trained gun carriers that have discharges from their guns while carrying. I can't think of anything more critical to ensuring that I can keep my right to carry.

I wouldn't mind everyone have more practice, having more fun, and having guns that won't go off too easily. When I moved to Virginia, it never occured to me that I'd be able to buy and carry a gun, but have so much trouble finding places where I could shoot, practice and just have some fun!

PastorAaron
January 5, 2012, 11:06 AM
I agree. Most of my guns were purchased with tactics in mind, but man do I ever have fun shooting them. They are thrilling!
Honestly, I think I reach for my little cz thumbhole .22 more than any other gun.
God Bless,
Aaron

leeroy71
January 5, 2012, 11:10 AM
Every gun I own is a "fun" gun. If they weren't, I'd sell 'em a take up knitting.

All the "tacticool" and self defense stuff has its place. It's just not what some of us enjoy talking about. For me shooting is for relaxation or fun. Same with hunting.

Just because I may not have Glock or AR under my pillow, doesn't mean I can't defend myself with any of my FUN guns;).

BTW. I don't want anyone shooting at ME with a Taurus Judge. I don't care inadequit for SD they're "supposed" to be.:eek:

nickn10
January 5, 2012, 11:16 AM
I've been fond of guns ever since I got a Roy Rogers holster and gun outfit for Christmas back in 1947. The military, hunting, very informal target shooting with friends, reloading, the NRA and 2nd Amendment have kept the flames alive. I used to be a much better shot, age has taken a toll on my eyes and motor skills but the challenge to keep reasonably competent is enough to keep it interesting and fun. Nowdays the things I label as fun have been becoming less and less, thankfully shooting is still one of them. I'm thankful for having discovered THR.
Nick

ny32182
January 5, 2012, 12:12 PM
I think if we are 100% honest with ourselves, we'd be able to say with pride that virtually all our guns are toys. At the end of the day, "fun" is the motivation for everything I do related to shooting.

Meat is easier to catch at the store, and the chances that we are ever going to be involved in a shootout with armed criminals is infinitesimally small, and certainly doesn't warrant the time and money that "self defense enthusiasts" dump into the pursuit of "being prepared" for said event. So what else is left? The fun factor.

I'm a fairly old guy. Back a few years ago, I went through an IPSC phase where everything was serious. That got old in a hurry, not to mention I found out the guys where were serious about it were GOOD. I didn't belong there.

These days, I don't "train." I can't even say I "practice." I just go shooting. You might say "Well, you'll never get any better...and that's probably true. But I have fun.

Since competition doesn't pay the bills (except for a very select few people) fun at the end of the day is the only reason that 99.99% of people are shooting in competition. If winning is your "fun", then it helps to be serious about your practice, but "fun" is still the motivating factor at the end of the day.

ThatGuyHank
January 5, 2012, 12:19 PM
Sounds like my dad; he owns guns but he is fuddy and any weapon that is or looks like it would be on an AWB he hates and condems them. When I told him that I was buying a Saiga in 5.45x39 he asked me what it was. So I brought up a picture and told him I'd be converting it to a more "Traditional" AK format with a pistol grip and muzzle brake. He almost had a cow and started ranting that i'd "shoot up my college" or use my so called assault rifle to "hold up a bank and take all of the money to buy more assault rifles":rolleyes:

In the real world, I only got the rifle because it's extremely reliable, accurate enough for me, has cheap ammunition, and low recoil. Adding a pistol grip was for shooting comfort and the muzzle brake looks cool:D and brings the muzzle flip to zero. My intention was to have a fun gun and I got one. Now can it be used for other things? Of course! In my opinion it would make a fine coyote or p-dog rifle with some decent glass. But alas, no cartridge rifle hunting in NJ. :(

RaceM
January 5, 2012, 12:58 PM
All guns are fun, some more so than others, and all guns have tactical applications. A bad guy is just as dead with a head shot from a 22LR Saturday Night Special as a 12GA to the chest. Don't sweat the small stuff, just blast away & enjoy.

Dr.Rob
January 5, 2012, 01:09 PM
Most of my guns are 'just for fun'. Some are for hunting, some for competition some for defense. No reason I can't enjoy them all.

JellyJar
January 5, 2012, 01:43 PM
I like to shoot golf as well. 45s do a great job on those little balls! :evil:

JustinJ
January 5, 2012, 01:57 PM
Its been my experience that when people clarify in their questions that the gun's purpose will be for plinking or recreation they generally don't get answer about the tactical value or lack there of.

I would also say though that very few people who carry guns don't also enjoy them which is why i get annoyed when others look down on those who choose not to carry.

signalzero
January 5, 2012, 02:11 PM
I've found that a firearm is more than just a self-defense tool. It's also an excellent piece of engineering (except Sigmas), and as you suggest, they are fun to shoot. I find firearms to be fun, but I also recognize that they wear different hats depending on its owner and intended use. But that doesn't mean it can only be used for one thing. :D

9MMare
January 5, 2012, 02:42 PM
Self defense and fun are 2 different things. Altho for me, training with my SD weapon is fun.

But IMO, self defense is a necessity. While a gun isnt necessary to SD, it's one of many good tools and I have the right to carry one, so I do when I can.

And fun is fun. I do cowboy mounted shooting and those guns are for a completely different purpose, obviously.

Ankeny
January 5, 2012, 03:36 PM
"no gun is a toy" or "all guns are dangerous" Count me among the millions who enjoy really dangerous toys. ;)

Skribs
January 5, 2012, 03:51 PM
I come from the perspective of "why buy a gun that's just for fun, when you can buy a gun that's for fun and for _____." I have fun with all of my SD guns.

Claude Clay
January 5, 2012, 04:29 PM
i have been playing the monthly IDPA match at my favorite club for many years. i will work the timer or clearing table at most matches. background so as to put my request in perspective:

i asked the RO if i could run the match snap-shots and point shooting only and not be DQ'ed.
he said to play proper in the queue and than go again like that after all had shot.
when the range is just me or with friends, i train shooting and moving and not really conciously aiming. i seldom do not miss or by much. 1st pass had me 4th or 5th of the 27 that played that day. places 1 & 2 went as always to the 2 young men who are sponsered. when they play, the rest of us good naturedly consider 3rd to be tops.
anyways, my 'for fun' run was faster but i had 2 7's when ua need 8 on the cardboards. that was 10 seconds of penality.
i ended in the same position though.

it was a fun day using real SD equipment.

Zombiphobia
January 5, 2012, 04:37 PM
this is a new concept to me. All of my guns are fun except the KelTec P-32, that thing SUCKS(as far as accuracy goes), but thankfully it works well enough to double as a defensive weapon.

I tacticooled an AK that was once used for both fun range time and home defense, but it's since gone back to original configuration and is mostly just a hunting rifle since I moved to a more suburban area.

loud-mouth shnook
January 5, 2012, 04:41 PM
Personally, I think ALL of my guns are "fun" guns.
From the .22's all the way up to my biggest boomers.
Shooting an S&W 617 is different from shooting a Ruger MKIII which is different from shooting an S&W 586 which is different from shooting an S&W 629 which is different from shooting a Marlin 1894 (even though it's the same caliber) which is different from shooting a 1911...all are their own experiences.

The way I see it, the ability for home-and self-defense are an extra special perk that comes with the equipment necessary for the shooting sports.
Needless to say, certain pieces do double duty as both fun and "anti-bump-in-the-night".

But when I think of a firearm, my first thought is NOT picturing myself crouching behind a corner and ready to do battle with it. Depending on the gun, it could be in the woods looking up for squirrels or with my family and/or buds at the range, all smiles and lemonade on a warm, sunny day.

Doesn't mean one shouldn't take defense and training seriously, however, anymore than a driver would just jump behind the wheel at Indy simply because he just plunked down the cash for an Indy car. But even the learning curve is fun when someone keeps safety at the forefront. (End of sermon to choir.)

Just my $.02.

Zoogster
January 5, 2012, 04:45 PM
I think plenty of firearm enthusiasts have guns that are just for fun.

However the reason guns are not 'just for fun' is because we live in a society that has tried to take them away before, included 'sporting purposes', and generally does not recognize 'just for fun' as a reasonable reason for gun ownership.

If guns were just for fun they would be outlawed, posing risk to society without what most would consider a justified reason for existing and posing that risk.

So over time many gun owners used hunting as the excuse to warrant ownership of the guns they had. Fudds as we call them today. This was a strategy widespread a couple decades ago, apologetic gun owners that needed their guns so they could still lawfully hunt.
However all we need to do is look to many nations around the world to know just how failed a strategy that is at keeping firearm rights alive.


If guns are just for fun or recreation, laws demanding they be stored unloaded, disassembled, be transported in such conditions, and similar nonsense you see in other nations can be defended as reasonable. As well as those laws that put firearms out of reach of all except the few that go above and beyond by jumping through many hoops to demonstrate they should own firearms.
If they are just for recreation the greater threat to power or the danger posed by certain types of firearms is easier to weigh against their entertainment value.
Quite simply if they are only for recreation then the harm they can cause outweighs their recreational benefits in the eyes of much more of society.

No the only reason most gun rights can be justified in a way that outweighs the harm their existence can pose, is possession for self defense, or the real reason the founders gave the 2nd Amendment: so the people as a whole would always be more powerful than any force the government could raise against them, insuring they remain a free people.
This is an effective logical and moral defense for firearm ownership, and the reason the founders added the right to arms in the Bill of Rights.
This reason protects a much broader type of firearm, and in fact shows that the type of arms that need to be protected are those actually capable of taking on military forces, not just the single shot or double gun that can take down some game during hunting season.


So certainly many guns are for fun, possessed for no other reason. But if we start touting that as the reason for ownership and lose sight of the valid argument the founders gave for firearm ownership, the antis quickly gain victories in passing restrictions.
If guns were just for fun, you would be prohibited from owning most guns, and few people would satisfy the requirements for owning even the permitted firearm types.
If guns are just for fun, that fun won't outweigh the lives lost and harm caused with them.
Only the lives saved, the equality created, and the freedom preserved, justifies their ownership. None of which has anything to do with their recreational value.

FIVETWOSEVEN
January 5, 2012, 04:46 PM
During shooting with anything, I stab myself with a cattle prod in between reloading so I'm never happy or having a good time shooting. My reason behind this is because if I'm involved in a shooting, I don't want to be seen smiling because it was fun because the DA will go nuts and prosecute me for it because it would look like I enjoyed it.

/sarcasm

Guns are fun!

Sheepdog1968
January 5, 2012, 04:48 PM
I think we see a lot of this "it's not practical for self defense" becuase many of the threads are from folks who are buying the initial few firearms and are having the firearms serve many roles. I have both self defense weapons as well as range/social plinking toys. When I post a question, I often try to distinguish the role of the firearm.

Sobel
January 5, 2012, 05:00 PM
I only have a Cz-82 and a Mosin Nagant. If I was in a desperate situation the cz would go to my brother and I would be stuck with my range gun and I wouldn't feel unarmed. People at the gun store judged me for having a 9x18 mak for home defense. ps. Anyone who says guns aren't fun to shoot just haven't found that one boomstick that gives em the perfect rush.

12131
January 5, 2012, 05:09 PM
All my guns are for defense, but they are all for fun, also.
Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?

gamestalker
January 5, 2012, 05:43 PM
The best self defense weapon is the one within reach. Yes, I have firearms I use primarily for S.D. carry, one's for hunting, but all are for self defense if necessary.

huntsman
January 5, 2012, 06:01 PM
but I have many guns that are toys. I would not use these firearms in a serious situation. I just think that too many people are getting wrapped up in being tactical or worrying about self defense. Sometimes you just need to relax and have fun. Not every gun you own has to be so serious.

I donít consider any of my guns as toys but I do own fun guns.

My early influences were hunting and plinking so yeah we were more laid-back when it came to gun usage.

BigN
January 5, 2012, 06:16 PM
And I thought that's what I'd been doing all along :D

Pete D.
January 5, 2012, 06:21 PM
I have been saying "my guns are sporting goods" for years. Nice to read finally that others feel the same way.
"That javelin ain't no sporting toy. No. it ain't. Neither are any of the Olympic field events. The Hammer, the 16lb shot, the discus...all throwing weapons. The broad jump - crossing moats. The pole vault...leaping over barriers. The Marathon...named after a battle related mission wherein the Greeks defeated the Persians. Hurdles - broken field attack?
Pete

beatledog7
January 5, 2012, 06:22 PM
Any gun can fill either role or both roles, to varying degrees. It all depends on the manner and situation in which one needs defense and on what one considers fun.

Every gun I own is fun to shoot, and every gun I own could play a role in HD or SD.

I would not choose 24" bolt-action 22LR for HD/SD given access to other guns I own, but in a pinch it beats a sharp stick. And it's huge fun to shoot.

Conversely, a .44 Mag with full-house 240gr loads is not really fun to shoot, but with mid-range .44 SPL loads it's a joy. But with those same magnum loads it's hard to beat for stopping power.

JustinJ
January 5, 2012, 06:22 PM
I come from the perspective of "why buy a gun that's just for fun, when you can buy a gun that's for fun and for _____." I have fun with all of my SD guns.

Because a .22 is cheap to shoot. I enjoy shooting my Winchester 94 but wouldn't use it for SD. Same for Mosin Nagant and M1 carbine.

wannabeagunsmith
January 5, 2012, 07:43 PM
If guns didn't look like fun, I probably wouldn't be interested. Same with lots of other people, it is the human nature.

raveneap
January 5, 2012, 07:50 PM
I have a number of guns that I'd classify as "self defense" but they're still fun to shoot. Then I have some that are totally fun but, unless there were no other choice, I'd never consider for self defense. Such as this, one of my favorite "fun" units, the SW M&P 15-22.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/raveneap/DSC07067.jpg

valnar
January 5, 2012, 08:02 PM
I have to admit, and maybe this is a bit crazy, but if the government did make such a big deal about it I probably wouldn't be as interested as I am. But then, maybe I would be?

I've wanted a switchblade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switchblade) since forever - not because I ever intended to use one as designed, but because I was told I cannot have one. I'm a grown adult now, but some "kid" behavior never goes away.

splithoof
January 5, 2012, 08:08 PM
A great game I taught my children is called "22 Golf"; each player uses a .22 pistol to chase their own colored golf ball thirty-five yards down range until it goes into a cardboard box. Several players all start at once. Once you try it, you will be hooked.

rellascout
January 5, 2012, 08:10 PM
All of my guns are for fun.... but all of them can also double as a fighting tool. The only exception is my Ruger MKII.

BellyUpFish
January 5, 2012, 08:33 PM
I have firearms that I would use in defense of my life but I also have many that are mostly for fun. It seems that many people only focus on the serious use of firearms. For example they will state that "when your heart is racing you will not be able to operate those controls due to your loss of fine motor skills". I also hear " the grips on that weapon are too slick if your hands are sweating or covered in blood". I know this may anger some people but I have many guns that are toys. I would not use these firearms in a serious situation. I just think that too many people are getting wrapped up in being tactical or worrying about self defense. Sometimes you just need to relax and have fun. Not every gun you own has to be so serious.

All of my guns are toys. Lord willing, I will never go to war with any of them. While toys, they are also tools.

My guns are just for fun. ;)

Byrd666
January 5, 2012, 08:39 PM
For me, going to the range and shooting IS fun. I love going out and shooting a soda can full of lil' bitty holes for hours at a time. Or killing a zombie on a stand over and over again. But at the same time, when I strap on that belt and put my pistol in the holster, it's dead serious. Because it is serious and could be deadly.

The_Next_Generation
January 5, 2012, 09:11 PM
Come to think of it, its been a while since I've seen anybody smiling at the range, except for me!

The guys shooting their Rem 700s, M1As, AR15/10s, and other rifles, seem to have lost track of the 'fun' part of shooting. Most people seem to show up, punch some holes to check that they can use their weapon if need be, and leave.

Recently, one of the other members at my range and I had some fun ringing various sizes of steel at 200 yards with our .22s. It was smiles and "..*bang*.......*plink*..YEEHAW! How 'bout that eh?!"

But, it is also important that guns be used and seen in a serious light. Lawful self-defense use is pretty difficult to argue against.

I think it is important that firearms are seen as both serious and fun.

- TNG

Tiberius67
January 5, 2012, 10:58 PM
Because a .22 is cheap to shoot. I enjoy shooting my Winchester 94 but wouldn't use it for SD. Same for Mosin Nagant and M1 carbine.

A M1 Carbine is a rather efficient weapon out to about 100 yds, especially if you use soft or hollowpoints. They're even fun to shoot. :p

george29
January 6, 2012, 01:56 AM
Why can't guns just be for fun?
They are! This is my Rifle, this is my gun.........:D

dmazur
January 6, 2012, 01:56 AM
I will admit to having fun with a .22 semiauto rifle and pop cans at a gravel pit. Of course, I justified it by telling myself I was working on grouse skills...

My wife likes to blast cans with a 9410 shotgun. She uses the same excuse, but I can tell from her grin that there is something else going on.

But the practice sessions with the 1911's are a little more structured, and there is a little less smiling. We're shooting silhouettes, not cans, and you lose points the further you get from vital zones.

Sometimes we take the hunting rifles and shoot groups. I wish her .243 would open up its groups, so I'd have half a chance. So far, I can beat her shooting offhand at a 6" gong at 200 yds.

So, I guess we try to do both if possible. Practice hunting or self-defense skills and have fun.

ShawnC
January 6, 2012, 02:44 AM
Every gun I own has a serious purpose, which is why my CCW gun is an M1 Garand. :neener:

toivo
January 6, 2012, 02:44 AM
I only have a Cz-82 and a Mosin Nagant. If I was in a desperate situation the cz would go to my brother and I would be stuck with my range gun and I wouldn't feel unarmed. People at the gun store judged me for having a 9x18 mak for home defense.

Two firearms that are fun and practical at the same time. Those people at the gun store don't know squat: 9x18 was the military handgun chambering of the Eastern Bloc countries for 40 years. I'd say it's up to the task.

I have fun shooting my Glocks. They would also come in handy for defense if the need ever arose. I have fun shooting my BSA Martini Model 12 too, but an eight-pound single-shot rimfire with a 29" barrel wouldn't be my first choice for a defensive application. :D

My wife likes to blast cans with a 9410 shotgun.

Now that sounds like fun. I want one of those!

MyGreenGuns
January 6, 2012, 04:44 AM
I do not (yet) hunt, so none are "hunting" tools. I am not a soldier, so none are "offensive" tools. I do not (yet) compete, so none are "sports equipment".
My shotgun is loaded and ready for home defense, but I've never used it for that purpose.

ALL my guns are "fun guns". That is, until the day something bad happens. Then, I'll have a pile of guns, and "this one that saved my life."

QUOTE: "I never really thought about using my beltfed ma duece for home defense."
I think a man has a right to defend his family. But seriously, thats one of the top guns in my "I'd like to shoot one" list. :)

OARNGESI
January 6, 2012, 05:14 AM
All my guns are pretty much range guns

iLikeOldgunsIlikeNewGuns
January 6, 2012, 05:18 AM
everything I'd wanna say has pretty much been said :)

most of my guns are for fun, life seems a bit too short to not enjoy ourselves , and I really enjoy shooting SAAs, cap n balls, all sorts of .22lrs, old shotguns, etc. etc. I even have a few I wouldn't hesitate to depend on. It's already been said, training for seriousness is also fun.

I really liked the last sentence in Sam1911 's post #8

and hey 50cal, are you Will from Sons?!? :D
If I lived in a far more rural area, I might want a ma-deuce around for home defense x-D

One_Jackal
January 6, 2012, 07:17 PM
I live in a rural area. I can shoot almost anything in my backyard. Yet the "gun" I shoot the most is a crossman air rifle. It's very cheap to shoot. It's very easy to find fun targets. There are numerous online vendors that will have a fancy self resetting target at your house in a few days for about the cost of a box of quality centerfire ammunition.

If you live in an area where you can't find a range or you can't shoot at home an air gun is a lot of fun. A couple bales of hay or a pellet trap is all you need. There are air guns that have the same feel as many popular pistols. They even have a moving slide so you don't develop bad habits that will get you "clipped" with a real pistol.

JustinJ
January 6, 2012, 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinJ
Because a .22 is cheap to shoot. I enjoy shooting my Winchester 94 but wouldn't use it for SD. Same for Mosin Nagant and M1 carbine.

A M1 Carbine is a rather efficient weapon out to about 100 yds, especially if you use soft or hollowpoints. They're even fun to shoot.

Eh, i wouldn't want to get hit by one but in reality the .30 carbine round is little if anything more than a pistol round.

Ignition Override
January 6, 2012, 07:40 PM
As few people in this country (since frontier days) seem to have been mugged by a thug from 50 or 100 yards, other than near the Austin tower in 1966, it's really hard to imagine why any rifle, especially an FAL or M-1A etc, is needed for defense from people.

Many appear to be counting (one day) on an actual "Road Warrior" situation, to help justify their investments. A few of them are at "SKSboards".

Much more subtle and devious situations caused by possible high inflation in foreign countries
(other than Germany in the 1920s) are usually not nearly as interesting to read about, and so profitable for private sellers and the retail industry as post "s**f" topics.
Promoting anxiety =$$$$, because the human mind clings to bothersome possibilities and won't let go of what it can imagine.

JustinJ
January 6, 2012, 08:19 PM
As few people in this country (since frontier days) seem to have been mugged by a thug from 50 or 100 yards, other than near the Austin tower in 1966, it's really hard to imagine why any rifle, especially an FAL or M-1A etc, is needed for defense from people.

Many appear to be counting (one day) on an actual "Road Warrior" situation, to help justify their investments. A few of them are at "SKSboards".

I have multiple said rifles and Road Warrior was a lone wolf so you're theory doesn't fit. On the other hand i do have a heeler.

Dentite
January 6, 2012, 10:06 PM
Who says they can't just be for fun? Of course as long as you realize they are also dangerous if mishandled. I have guns I own only for the fun factor...those are the best ones.

PT92
January 6, 2012, 10:38 PM
I have firearms that I would use in defense of my life but I also have many that are mostly for fun.I get it.
I know this may anger some people but I have many guns that are toys.I don't follow...? Do you mean they are like 'safe-queens' or collection pieces?

-Happy New Year

Stevie-Ray
January 7, 2012, 06:31 PM
The vast majority of my guns are for fun, and yes, I call them toys. Nothing wrong with big-boy toys. I also have a truck that is a toy, and it's far more dangerous than any gun.

I also have some serious work tools, like my carry weapons. Some of them can be quite fun, also, but that's rare.

KAS1981
January 7, 2012, 07:03 PM
I have just as much fun shooting pop cans with a .22 as I do practicing with my carry pistol.

It's all fun to me. But you're right, I don't take it all so seriously.

Marlin60Man
January 7, 2012, 07:43 PM
Yeah, all I have is .22s for target shooting.

You know it does make me wonder though... If the 2nd amendment is the right to bear arms, should that really pertain to firearms that are just for recreation? I suppose one could argue that as far as hobbies go, it's a little dangerous and maybe could be seen as without merit to just shoot for fun?

Though on the other hand, we also have the right to have a "well regulated militia"? So it'd probably be best we're all up and up on our target practice.

DammitBoy
January 7, 2012, 07:53 PM
We need color-coded name tags for range use so we know who to talk to.

I had a grad school professor way back when who thought this up for conferences:

White - I'm serious, talk to me about business
White/Red - Let's get a drink and talk some shop
Red - Give me a beer/where's the women at?
That's an excellent idea!

dmazur
January 7, 2012, 10:55 PM
If the 2nd amendment is the right to bear arms, should that really pertain to firearms that are just for recreation?

I don't have links to support my answers, but I think I can express the basics anyway, if I'm allowed to be "close enough for discussion":

For an example of where this can lead, look to Canada. I believe you can own 1911 pistols in Canada, but you can only transport them to & from matches. There may be some fairly tight laws for licensing as well. There certainly isn't any carrying a handgun for self-defense.

For an even worse example, look to England. I believe you can't even own a semi-auto pistol. Their right to own handguns has been limited to revolvers with some ridiculous barrel length approaching that of a rifle. There is also no recognized need for carrying a handgun for self-defense.

No, the problem is, once the government starts regulating what type and where you can "bear arms", there just doesn't seem to be a good way to convince those writing the regs that you are going to own a gun solely for recreation, and so you should be exempt.

I believe the term commonly used to describe this is "slippery slope". The NRA has lots and lots of discussion about this... :)

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