New Glock Handgun Sights


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D.R. Middlebrooks
January 5, 2012, 01:21 PM
Check this out, a NEW adjustable Glock Sight complete with torture test: :what:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ketn_H45XBs&feature=related

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David E
January 5, 2012, 02:15 PM
D. R., long time no see!

Thought about you the other day when discussing "accuracy" and "speed," with someone. I recalled our conversation at the 2001 IDPA Nat's about a pompous shooter who was so slow and inaccurate on every stage because he said he shot it "tactically."

PM me, maybe I can test those sights!

R.W.Dale
January 5, 2012, 02:36 PM
Its a nice sturdy sight. But lacking any kind of dot or light gathering ability at the rear. makes it a non starter for me.

posted via tapatalk using android.

David E
January 5, 2012, 02:47 PM
Why do you want to clutter your sight picture with inconsequential crap?

R.W.Dale
January 5, 2012, 03:19 PM
Why do you want to clutter your sight picture with inconsequential crap?

While the stock sights do OK in daylight they aren't really doing much in low light. I doubt anyone would argue the glock sights aren't the cheapest sight known to man.

posted via tapatalk using android.

D.R. Middlebrooks
January 5, 2012, 04:49 PM
Its a nice sturdy sight. But lacking any kind of dot or light gathering ability at the rear. makes it a non starter for me.

I understand completely, we're working on it… :)

I wanted to get this model out for the competition shooters first (Hi David :)) and for the guys who prefer a BLACK rear blade. Most Top Shooters I know prefer a black rear and a RED DOT front.

The GREEN DOT fiber optic is better at dusk and dawn, and some people can see it better than the RED during the day. Tritium of course is VERY popular at night (front and rear). To each his own, and that's why there needs to be some variety. :cool:

Personally, I prefer a plain WHITE DOT in front for carry (for use with my flashlight) as it’s also the strongest sight I make (torture test coming soon :what:)...

www.TacticalShooting.com

voyager4520
January 5, 2012, 05:58 PM
At first I thought they did the cinderblock chopping with the "fish gill" serrated slide.

Ankeny
January 5, 2012, 06:27 PM
Why do you want to clutter your sight picture with inconsequential crap? Yeah, like fiber optic inserts in the front, or those radio active bulbs Trijicon uses. :evil:

bergmen
January 5, 2012, 08:48 PM
It would be really nice if the video showed how the rear sight can be adjusted (both windage and elevation).

Otherwise I like 'em.

Dan

Gtscotty
January 5, 2012, 10:47 PM
I'm in the market for adjustable sights for a G20, and ran across these the other day while looking around for different options. Would these sights be a good fit for precision type shooting in hunting applications? For normal daytime shooting I've always assumed that markings on the rear sight would tend to grab focus from the front sight. But for low light, dusk shooting conditions, I wonder if tritium or fiber optics would help with sight alignment.. Thoughts?

D.R. Middlebrooks
January 6, 2012, 07:28 AM
It would be really nice if the video showed how the rear sight can be adjusted (both windage and elevation).

Here's a link showing how they adjust:

http://www.tacticalshooting.com/how-to-adjust-pro-sights

D.R. Middlebrooks
January 6, 2012, 07:48 AM
Would these sights be a good fit for precision type shooting in hunting applications?

Yes. The sight picture shown with the round top red dot and square notch has been used to win National & World Championships, setting new records for both speed and accuracy…

For normal daytime shooting I've always assumed that markings on the rear sight would tend to grab focus from the front sight.

Exactly. Some rear sights are so cluttered up they tend to over power the front sight. That's why we need to make the front sight more attractive to the human eye than the rear. There is a reason Top Shooters prefer plain black in the rear…

But for low light, dusk shooting conditions, I wonder if tritium or fiber optics would help with sight alignment.. Thoughts?

Yes, I find a thin white line or green fiber works best during "legal hunting hours". Tritium is best for spotlighting deer, though (don't ask me how I know. :uhoh:).

www.TacticalShooting.com

David E
January 6, 2012, 12:48 PM
Was wondering what the sight specs are. Can't find that info on the site.

D.R. Middlebrooks
January 6, 2012, 02:05 PM
The front sight is .250” High x .125” Wide.

The rear sight notch is .140” Wide x .095” Deep.

The rear blade stands .250” above the top of the slide with NO elevation inserts.

Jacked ALL the way up the rear blade is .306” (even with the flat on the wings or protective ears). But that’s 7” of elevation adjustment at 25 yds. :eek: Never had to go anywhere near that high thus far.

Most 9MM’s don’t need any shims by the way, some need only 1-3. :cool:

bergmen
January 6, 2012, 02:49 PM
Here's a link showing how they adjust:

http://www.tacticalshooting.com/how-to-adjust-pro-sights

Thanks. Technical question: Has there been any incidences of the Phillips screw to loosen over time? I ask this since nylon has a slight tendency to cold flow (depending on certain conditions, heat being one) which could cause a loosening of the clamping forces. BTW, nylon 6/12 and 6/6T have some of the best dimensional stability properties of the various nylons because of their very low moisture absorption rates (all nylons are hygroscopic to some degree).

Dan

David E
January 6, 2012, 03:50 PM
That's a nylon screw? It looks like a zinc plated metal screw.


Seems to me it'd look better black.

Surely there is a reason they use that one.....

bergmen
January 6, 2012, 04:22 PM
That's a nylon screw? It looks like a zinc plated metal screw.

Seems to me it'd look better black.

Surely there is a reason they use that one.....

The screw looks to be stainless steel. The shims used to adjust vertical are made of nylon. I'm just asking if there has been any noticeable cold flow of the nylon shims that could contribute to loosening of the mounted rear blade screw over time. Thread locking compund on the screw would assist in mitigating this if it were indeed an issue.

Dan

D.R. Middlebrooks
January 6, 2012, 06:01 PM
The elevation inserts (or shims as everybody likes to call them) are Nylon (Dan I need to PM you on this. Where were you when I needed you, anyway? ;) You seem to be smart on this stuff! :cool:). The screw is stainless and it’s a #2 Phillips for good reason.

The general consensus is that it seems nobody EVER has the right size Allen wrench, but somebody ALWAYS has a Phillips screw driver handy anywhere in the world. Same holds true for the shooting ranges here in the USA.

More info to follow…

D.R. Middlebrooks
January 6, 2012, 06:07 PM
Here's the complete installation instructional video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGrTpfm3pLI&feature=youtu.be

D.R. Middlebrooks
January 6, 2012, 06:25 PM
The screw looks to be stainless steel. The shims used to adjust vertical are made of nylon. I'm just asking if there has been any noticeable cold flow of the nylon shims that could contribute to loosening of the mounted rear blade screw over time. Thread locking compund on the screw would assist in mitigating this if it were indeed an issue.

Dan

We’ve used this sight adjustment system since 1996 on my custom Pro-Sight® Installations (And YES, PRO-SIGHT® is a Registered Trademark of mine and you folks out there need to knock off the use of it, and I’m asking you NICE, as a Gentleman :cool: ).

The shim adjustment system has been used from Alaska to Tucson on DUTY GUNS and on CARRY GUNS (and overseas in inclement weather). So far, NO problems.

P.S. - Dan I still need to PM you as I have some questions and could use your advice. I’m just SWAMPED right now with emails and phone calls. Thanks! :)

D.R.

www.TacticalShooting.com

David E
January 6, 2012, 06:32 PM
I agree that an Allen head would suck for the reasons listed. I've stripped out plenty of Phillips head screws. That's why I suggested a Torx head in the email.

I bought some wood screws yesterday for $3.99 that were Torx head. I was tired of stripping out the phillips head screws. They thoughtfully included a Torx bit in the package. I don't envision needing to constantly change or adjust the sight once zeroed and secured, so not carrying a Torx bit in my pocket shouldn't cause a problem.

The white screw, to my mind, makes it look cheap. Like you ran out of the correct screw, so used this one instead to get the sight out the door.

Why not put a black finish on a stainless screw?

Regardless, I would buy this sight as is.

bergmen
January 6, 2012, 06:43 PM
We’ve used this sight adjustment system since 1996 on my custom Pro-Sight® Installations (And YES, PRO-SIGHT® is a Registered Trademark of mine and you folks out there need to knock off the use of it, and I’m asking you NICE, as a Gentleman :cool: ).

The shim adjustment system has been used from Alaska to Tucson on DUTY GUNS and on CARRY GUNS (and overseas in inclement weather). So far, NO problems.

P.S. - Dan I still need to PM you as I have some questions and could use your advice. I’m just SWAMPED right now with emails and phone calls. Thanks! :)

D.R.

www.TacticalShooting.com

The proof is definitely in the field testing. My concerns are totally academic and on the fringe, I can see by your statements that you have the design down cold.

Yes, please PM me, I am a Mechanical Engineer by profession and have worked with many plastic types for various applications (also, metals of course). I would be glad to assist in any questions you may have without hesitation.

Dan

D.R. Middlebrooks
January 6, 2012, 06:52 PM
The white screw, to my mind, makes it look cheap. Like you ran out of the correct screw, so used this one instead to get the sight out the door.

Trust me, I have spared no expense bringing this sight to market. It’s a special screw, low profile and all. I even had my own front sight hold down screws made to my specs, too. :cool:

But that’s a good idea. Thanks, I always welcome good input (weather I like it or not :o ).

D.R. Middlebrooks
January 6, 2012, 06:58 PM
The proof is definitely in the field testing. My concerns are totally academic and on the fringe, I can see by your statements that you have the design down cold.

Yes, please PM me, I am a Mechanical Engineer by profession and have worked with many plastic types for various applications (also, metals of course). I would be glad to assist in any questions you may have without hesitation.

Dan

Will do, Thank You! Look forward to it. :cool:

David E
January 6, 2012, 07:17 PM
Trust me, I have spared no expense bringing this sight to market. It’s a special screw, low profile and all. I even had my own front sight hold down screws made to my specs, too.

I have no doubt this screw does everything it's supposed to do and then some. I was merely commenting on the aesthetic appearance.

D.R. Middlebrooks
January 6, 2012, 07:26 PM
Thanks David, I REALLY DO appreciate input from a shooter like yourself and newbies as well... :cool:

It's on my "TO DO" list trust me...:)

D.R. Middlebrooks
January 7, 2012, 06:24 PM
I agree that an Allen head would suck for the reasons listed. I've stripped out plenty of Phillips head screws.

Me too...with DRILL DRIVERS!! :evil: ;)

But I have rolled over a heck of a lot of small Allen Head Sockets over the years...on gun sights!!! :(

I agree, Torx would be better. But just not practical in all applications...

Jim Watson
January 7, 2012, 06:44 PM
Evolution from the ring sight to the V notch back to the square notch, I see.

Sapper771
January 8, 2012, 09:05 PM
Is there a warranty and/or customer satisfaction guarantee with these sights?

tnglock19
January 8, 2012, 09:56 PM
Look nice now just make them for the sr9...lol.... no really make them for the sr9

W.E.G.
January 8, 2012, 10:57 PM
The silver color on the rear sight screw is just wrong.

Otherwise, looks like a very impressive product.
The cinderblock test was awesome.

I have no problem with the Phillips slot-type.
Not like that screw is ever going to be touched once the sight is zeroed.

D.R. Middlebrooks
January 14, 2012, 12:02 PM
Evolution from the ring sight to the V notch back to the square notch, I see.

Well, not really...

For those of you who don’t know what Jim’s talking about, I’ve been building my own gun sights for 15 years now.

The first fiber optic sight ever developed for handguns was my Ghost Ring sight called the Pro-Sight® “Circle Dot”. Critics said it wouldn't shoot, but Chad Dietrich used it to win the 1998 NRA Bianchi Cup with the Highest Score ever fired with a stock gun. :what:

They immediately outlawed the sight, but the record stood for about five years. Personally, I found it was just too tall and the thin blade was too fragile for tactical/carry use. IDPA outlawed Ghost Ring sights because of it, so I moved on.

The next generation model was the Pro-Sight® V-DOT. It was similar to the XS sights but correctly sized to shoot well. Critics won said that sight wouldn't shoot either, but we won a bunch of major titles with it. I find it great for older eyes, and still one of my favorite sight pictures. :)

This new Combat Carry Pro-Sight® with the Round Dot and Square Notch sight picture is not new at all. Ken Tapp used it to win the 1998 National Police Combat Championships setting new records for speed and lowest aggregate times which still stand. Daniel Horner used it to win the Winchester World Challenge Stock gun title and set a new record and I won the IDPA title with it as well. :cool:

Speaking of which, Pro-Sights have always had interchangeable rear blades that automatically re-zero (that's the beauty of the Total Lock Down System). So, I’m going to come out with a V-Dot version for this Combat Carry Model as well. I just need to find the time to get back on the Auto Cad...

www.TacticalShooting.com

Mainsail
January 14, 2012, 01:17 PM
Once you get the screw color fixed, I'm in for a set for my G29.

bergmen
January 14, 2012, 01:36 PM
I agree that an Allen head would suck for the reasons listed. I've stripped out plenty of Phillips head screws. That's why I suggested a Torx head in the email.

I bought some wood screws yesterday for $3.99 that were Torx head. I was tired of stripping out the phillips head screws. They thoughtfully included a Torx bit in the package. I don't envision needing to constantly change or adjust the sight once zeroed and secured, so not carrying a Torx bit in my pocket shouldn't cause a problem.

The white screw, to my mind, makes it look cheap. Like you ran out of the correct screw, so used this one instead to get the sight out the door.

Why not put a black finish on a stainless screw?

Regardless, I would buy this sight as is.

I can comment regarding machine screw drive recesses and available finishes for stainless steel fasteners.

On the drive recesses: With flat head screws, recesses with vertical drive recess features (hex-socket head or "Allen", six-lobe or "Torx") are at a distinct disadvantage because the minimum required depth of these recesses limits the size. One must use a small size recess since going larger will weaken the fastener at the head/shank junction, or limit the depth of the recess. The obvious advantages of these types of recesses is the lack of need for an axial force to minimize the chances of "cam-out". The small recess size, however, greatly increases the risk of stripping the recess. Take a look at various flat head screws with the above mentioned recesses and you can see that the size of the recess is disproportionally smaller than the shank size.

There are exceptions to this limitation that have been successfully used in various construction type fasteners. I commonly use a flat head drill screw for wood fastening that has an excellent six-lobe recess for this application. The screws are made of a hardened steel alloy and they are used in wood which has much less tortional force requirements for seating than in metal.

Enter the Phillips-type recess. The angular shape of the Phillips recess lends itself to the tapered shape of the flat head. The outside edges of the Phillips driver has a much better mechanical advantage than the outside edges of the recesses mentioned above. Physically, it is a better match. The downside to this is the tendency for a "cam-out" action that will quickly (and very effectively) destroy the recess. This is especially true with metal fasteners used to assemble metal parts.

Phillips-type recesses can be very effectively used if three very important rules are followed:

1) Match the driver to the recess. If a particular screw has a Phillips #1 recess, use ONLY a #1 Phillips driver. And this driver MUST be in good condition. Generally, if the driver is damaged such that it does not make a clean, full depth contact with the screw recess, it has been abused in the past, or is worn out, and should be discarded. Properly used Philips screwdrivers will last many, many years before needing to be replaced, but they must be replaced if worn or damaged.

2) Apply sufficient AXIAL force when tightening or loosening Phillips-type screws. Axial force is applying force along the axis of the fastener. My rule of thumb is to push with more force than I use in turning the driver. Preventing cam-out is key here and applying significant axial force (along with rule #1 above) will minimize the tendency to have this happen. Pushing strongly on the fastener is conducive to relieving forces that can prevent easily loosening and can aid in tightening.

3) Driver/fastener alignment. It is also imperative (as are rules #1 & #2 above) to have the shank of the driver be coaxial (in alignment) with the shank of the fastener. The better the alignment, the more effective rule #2 is.

So, matched Phillips driver to fastener recess, strong axial force, proper coaxial alignment.

If you are still awake, there are finishes that can be applied to stainless steel screws to make them black in color. They add cost and complexity to the fasteners in question and care must be taken to be sure of proper thread fit once they are colored. One is black nickel plating, the other is black nitride with a trade name of DuraBlack. I don't know enough about these methods to comment on them, but they are available. To me, it wouldn't be worth the hassle since when I am aligning the sights, I couldn't see the screw anyway.

Gun bluing using standard carbon steel screws is another way. These may be available commercially but since the screw in question is a custom length, this would have to be dealt with as a custom defined fastener.

Just my $0.02.

Dan

D.R. Middlebrooks
February 11, 2012, 05:53 PM
WOW! :eek:

I don't know about anyone else but I got a lot out of that (maybe because it's my sight, my baby and I've always been Mechanical/Machine Designer kinda of a guy). Thanks Dan! :)

Personally, I don't see a problem with the screw. :( You can't see it from the rear, so there's no glare looking through the notch. One guy I know blacked his out with a Sharpie and one guy put a drop of flat black paint on his. And then one guy polished his shinny bright to match the other chrome high lights on his Glock. To each his own I guess. That's what makes personalizing your guns so much fun. :cool: Speaking of which, check out these grip mods on Polymer framed guns (scroll down when you get there):

http://www.tacticalshooting.com/glock-customizing

D.R. Middlebrooks
July 12, 2012, 11:59 AM
Here’s the New Pro-Sight® V-Notch rear blade.

It interchanges with the Square Notch rear blade and automatically re-zeros every time.

I’m 58 and this is the one that works best for me.

You can shot with in "in-the-notch" for ACCURACY or "out-of-the-notch" for SPEED. Just line up the top of the dot with the top of the protective wings. Works on the old Buck Horn sight principle like on the old Winchester rifles.

hentown
July 12, 2012, 03:29 PM
I was pretty interested, until I saw the method of adjustment. In my meager mind, shimming or drifting isn't adjusting. Turning a screw or two is my idea of "adjustable"...;)

D.R. Middlebrooks
July 12, 2012, 05:05 PM
I was pretty interested, until I saw the method of adjustment. In my meager mind, shimming or drifting isn't adjusting. Turning a screw or two is my idea of "adjustable"...

Yeah, me too…

Except for the fact that I could NOT find an adjustable sight that would hold up under our rigorous shooting and training requirements. :(

Frankly, I got tired of sights that would not hold zero, blades that break off, screws that strip out, pins that break, etc., etc. :uhoh:

FWIW: Sgt. Daniel Horner of the Army Marksmanship Unit (AMU) told me recently that he figures we have well over ¼ MILLION ROUNDS SENT DOWN RANGE using this BULLET PROOF method of adjusting sights with ZERO FAILURES.

He approves of this design. And I’ve been using it for a over a decade now on our Tactical Shooting Academy Team Guns (with over 80 major match wins to our credit). :cool:

I dunno about you, but the weak link in Glocks has always been the sights. And the weak link in adjustable sights has ALWAYS been the adjustability and the height of the sights. :scrutiny: But we fixed all that. :)

Besides, how often do you REALLY need to adjust your sights?? Once, or maybe twice if the load affects POI?

hentown
July 13, 2012, 08:19 AM
I agree with everybody else that they seem to be really good, durable sights, but I just don't see them as "adjustable" sights. To me, they're fixed sights that one shims. And to your point...yep, I always go with steel sights for my Glocks, and I don't see the need to ever adjust them, after they're initially sighted-in. Seems pretty simple to me to just install steel sights of a proper height for the p.o.i./p.o.a. that one desires, and leaving them alone.

I do own some Meprolight adjustables for a Glock that I only shoot at the range. The front sight is just shy of the same height as the Empire State Bulding.

Good luck with your enterprise. Hope it goes well!! :)

D.R. Middlebrooks
July 13, 2012, 11:11 AM
Adjusting the Pro-Sight® is as easy as 1-2-3.

Step 1: Remove the Hold Down screw & blade.

Step 2: Loosen the two set screws for windage adjustment then add or delete the nylon inserts for elevation. Each insert equals 1/2" at 12 yds. or 1" at 25 yds.

Step 3: Lock it back down. When you are happy with your zero, apply a drop of Loctite to the hold down screw ONLY.

gym
July 13, 2012, 09:43 PM
I use night sites on all my front sites, I find that if I can see the front site I can hit just about any moving target. My guns are not target guns, they are all made fo one thing, bad people. Otherwise they look pretty nice. It's funny how methodical you are, "a good thing", I remember putting ghost ring sites on my glock 30, at work, I couldn't wait to get home, that was in 96, they are still on, never moved. Used a hammer and a punch, cut a 2x4 to hold the slide, it took about 30 minutes. They are dead on to this day. I asked a guy who advertises on most sites, "has a store in Melbourne" does a big web business, why he didn't have more glocks with Night sites. He said that the gun was priced perfect at around $500, out the door, and at $600+, they just don't sell. It's a 20% increase in the cost of the gun. I never looked at it that way, but he has a point, every hundred you go up the more competition you have.
I'm not one to talk though I put grips and sights, holsters and do dads, on just about every gun I ever owned.Just did the same to my EMP, changed a perfectly good Night sight to a different brand.

hentown
July 14, 2012, 08:38 AM
I understood how the sights are adjusted; however, drifting for windage and shimming for elevation just, in my opinion, doesn't qualify these sights as "adjustable". I'm sure there's a market for them, particularly among the tactical guys, and especially those who bust concrete blocks with their sights/slides!!:D Those really are some tough sights. Again, good luck with the marketing.

ku4hx
July 14, 2012, 09:35 AM
Stainless steel screw brightness problem? Naaaaaw, clean the head with a little Acetone and dab on a bit of Kyrlon flat black (or whatever) using a Q-Tip. You'll likely never think about it again and I'm way past worring about did it meet the perfection standard right out of the box.

As to shims, my 1,000 pound gun safe is leveled with shims, a couple of high end scopes are shimmed ... I have shims that have been in place for 30-40 years in static applications. Maybe not adjustable in the traditional sense, but shims do the job and the same can be said for drifting the whole setup. Personally I prefer sights that have few, if any, moving parts. Springs do weaken, threads do get stripped and so does any kind of screw head. Some heads just take a little greater application by King Kong to make it happen.

I like the looks of the sight.

hentown
July 14, 2012, 11:01 AM
Stainless steel screw brightness problem? Naaaaaw, clean the head with a little Acetone and dab on a bit of Kyrlon flat black (or whatever) using a Q-Tip. You'll likely never think about it again and I'm way past worring about did it meet the perfection standard right out of the box.

As to shims, my 1,000 pound gun safe is leveled with shims, a couple of high end scopes are shimmed ... I have shims that have been in place for 30-40 years in static applications. Maybe not adjustable in the traditional sense, but shims do the job and the same can be said for drifting the whole setup. Personally I prefer sights that have few, if any, moving parts. Springs do weaken, threads do get stripped and so does any kind of screw head. Some heads just take a little greater application by King Kong to make it happen.


I didn't intend to impugn the quality of shims...just expressing my opinion that these appear to be very durable, well-made, fixed sights with a provision for shimming. All Glock sights are adjustable by drifting. My point is, I suppose, "what's the point?" If you buy good steel fixed sights of the proper height for your desired point of aim, then why screw around with shims??

D.R. Middlebrooks
July 14, 2012, 12:11 PM
My point is, I suppose, "what's the point?"

The point is that ALL guns DO NOT shoot to the same point of aim. :( Obviously, you haven’t installed as many Glock sights as I have. So, I'll share this data with you:

I just went over my notes, and it seems I have installed 53 Pro-Sights on model G19’s alone. This is what I found:

29 needed NO elevation inserts to zero at 12 yards (stock barrel)

12 needed (1) elevation insert (stock barrel)

5 needed (2) elevation inserts (stock barrel)

4 needed (3) elevation inserts (stock barrel)

2 needed (4) elevation inserts (aftermarket drop-in barrel)

1 needed (5) elevation inserts (match barrel)

If you buy good steel fixed sights of the proper height for your desired point of aim, then why screw around with shims??

Why screw around with having to change front sights until you figure it out? :rolleyes:

With Pro-Sights Point of Aim = Point of Impact, period. :cool: I've yet to have a Glock that would not sight in with this system.

D.R. Middlebrooks
October 30, 2012, 10:03 AM
The rear blades automatically re-zero. Takes about a minute to change one out. Here's the line up:

V-Notch, Two Dot or Plain Match Blade

Shawn Dodson
October 30, 2012, 01:40 PM
I just might have to try out that V-notch sight!

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