New member: Remington 597 problem


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Juggalo Reign
January 5, 2012, 11:31 PM
Hello all. I am a new member to THR, however I have browsed the site for years. I thought id introduce myself by posting a new thread about a problem Im having with a Remington 597 in 22lr and seeing if I can get some helpful answers. Basically whats going on is my wife got me a brand new 597 for christmas in olive green. This is my first brand new firearm, however ive owned 30+ and am an avid shooter at the local private range. So right out of the box this gun is awsome. Definitely one of the best looking .22's on the market IMO. So i do the usual tear down and cleaning i do with all my new guns...well new to me atleast :neener: . Anyways, after all put back together and with a generous coating of rem oil, shes off to the range. Right away i notice something is not right after the first 10 shots of the usual rem 550 brick. Hmm, they shouldnt be that far apart at only 25yrd. 6" groupings. Well, havent been to the range in a few weeks, i thought to myself. Maybe im just a little rusty? So out comes the vice. Lock'er down and tight. Good to try again. Another 3 shots and all over the paper....Maybe she doesnt like remington golds? so out comes some wildcat. Surely a change of ammo will make this kitten purr! Wait, thats not right! Again all over the paper! :banghead: . Ok...so maybe shes a little high maintenance? I dig to the bottom of my bag and out comes the cci and fiocchi. Line up on the target, deep breath, exhale and squeeze gently........ :cuss: . 5 1/4" groups with premium target ammo. Whats going on here? Ive put over 200 rounds of ammo through this thing and its still all over the place. Please tell me my wife didnt get me a $200 paperweight.

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Carolina Kalash
January 5, 2012, 11:38 PM
all i can say is that you occasionally get a lemon, even from the top notch manufacturers...

MGRAY
January 5, 2012, 11:45 PM
I had a similar problem with mine. Found the front take down screw was to long. This was pushed into the barrel clamp, plus left the reciever a tad loose in the stock. Take a look at the barrel where the front stock screw goes, see if it left a scratch or dent there. Marty

LoonWulf
January 5, 2012, 11:49 PM
take her down again, and check the barrel retention block screws...or what ever the hell they call that thing that pulls the barrel tight in the receiver. Also check that the guide rod rails set screws are tight. Other then that, contact remington.

Juggalo Reign
January 6, 2012, 12:08 AM
I will definitely check both of your suggestions tomorrow morning before taking it back out again. I wasnt sure if there was a barrel break in period, being a new rifle, before it would start to get accurate. Also on a side note, are the factory remington scopes that come on their rifles any good? I mean i know theyre no leupold, but should they be replaced with something better? No competition shooting here, just range junkie and avid hunter.

NeuseRvrRat
January 6, 2012, 12:14 AM
are you shooting iron sights or a scope?

LoonWulf
January 6, 2012, 12:14 AM
It depends on what your eye tells you. They are generally durable enough for the job, but usually not the best to look thru, its likely that youll want a new one. I take it you have a package? if so you might want to pop the scope off just to make sure it isnt defective.

Smokey Joe
January 6, 2012, 01:25 PM
Juggalo Reign--Bought a used 597 recently, myself, @ a local gun show. Mine too was kind of all over the place @ 50 yd. Discovered that the stock was pushing on the right side of the bbl, but that the left side was nice and loose.

Plan to open up the bbl channel a bit with sandpaper and see if that does the trick.

Anyhow, that's one more thing you might check.

Other than that I too will do the other checks suggested above.

The 597 is a VERY simple mechanism, but then, so are the Ruger Mk I, II, and III target pistols, which can be quite accurate. Accuracy doesn't require a whole bunch of extra worky bits.

SG1
January 6, 2012, 02:23 PM
First off, welcome to THR as a poster! I have a Remmy 597 and love it. I would suggest another forum though,

www.rimfirecentral.com

There's a section dedicated to the 597, and it's a great resource. I hope you get your problems worked out!

Juggalo Reign
January 6, 2012, 11:48 PM
thank you all for your input, especially you SG1. There is a massive forum dedicated to the 597 there and i think i found the problem. I will have to agree with mgray and say this is a front screw issue. Im going to free float tomorrow and dremel down the front screw if it is touching. I will report back with my range results.

Smokey Joe
January 7, 2012, 01:41 PM
Juggalo Rein--I did the things mentioned.

The bbl channel was easy to open--I used a sanding belt that doesn't fit my belt sander very well, and just looped it around the bbl, pulled it into the space between bbl and fore-end, and then kept pulling the belt around and around and working it down closer to the receiver. Had to loosen the receiver hold-down screws to allow clearance for the sandpaper belt up close to the receiver, but found it very convenient to do the work in this way. Whatever is sticking up the most gets sanded, and whatever isn't in the way, doesn't. Quickly obtained the "free movement of a dollar bill" clearance between bbl and fore-end, all the way down the fore-end to the receiver.

Tightened down the bbl retention block screw--that's a really funny clamp they worked out to hold the bbl to the receiver, but it works I guess.

Tightened the bolt guide rod set screws.

The takedown screws on mine weren't too long. Tightened both of 'em when re-assembling the rifle.

Oiled up the mechanism well.

Found out that now the bolt is a little "sticky" in the open position (it was not so, before the tightening) but took it to the range anyhow. Loaded up my 3 magazines with CCI Mini-Mag .22LR rounds, and shot 'em off--ZERO FTE's, zero failures to feed, no malfunctions of any kind. Reloaded the 3 magazines, and ran 'em through just as fast as I could pull the trigger. One empty case got caught in the bolt after firing out of the second 30 rounds.

The rifle seemed to be shooting fairly accurately, but I was only shooting 20 yd, and was trying for speed and proper semi-auto function, not accuracy, so no real conclusion about that.

Conclusions: (1) Tightening everything seems to help. (2) Still need to work on the bolt guide rails. (3) Relieving the fore-end around the bbl seems to help. (4) The 597 likes Remington mags better than after-market mags, and my one after-market mag doesn't take the 10th round in very well, although when forced in, it feeds just fine into the rifle.

godale
January 7, 2012, 01:56 PM
like here good people at rimfire central. they just seem to specialize in rimfires and are very lnowledgeable

husker
January 7, 2012, 02:08 PM
597 are very accurate rifles. Guide rods do need to be tweaked a bit to run properly some times.
If you are still getting large groups after tweaking. Take it back & get another 597

MGRAY
January 7, 2012, 09:24 PM
Keep us informed on your progress. Marty

BrocLuno
January 7, 2012, 11:04 PM
Mine won't take over 8 rounds in the mag w/o feed issues. With 8 loaded up it's a fun machine.

Check the barrel very carefully. Some I looked at had weird looking rifling near the muzzle and the crown was not all that nice. The one I have has good even rifling and a nice concentric crown. Shoots decent groups.

husker
January 8, 2012, 12:15 AM
My ten shot mags will only work with 8 as-well. The 30 round banana works good

LoonWulf
January 8, 2012, 12:16 AM
Thats one of the issues ive never encountered, all my mags worked just fine. Ive actually still got one of them sitting here, even though the gun is gone LOL.

Caliper_RWVA
January 8, 2012, 11:36 PM
I've got two 597's, both of which i have shot Rifleman with at local Appleseeds. One with a Bushnell red dot and the other with a Lyman peep sight I mounted. CCI Blazer ammo for both, although they do shoot better with Std Vel or Green Tag.

Both did require a bunch of sanding to free float the barrel, and not too tight on the guide rod screws. Fortunately the action screws are the right length on both.

Juggalo Reign
January 8, 2012, 11:42 PM
Ok, so I did some work. The first thing i did was another entire breakdown and cleaning. Then I free floated the barrel to meet the dollar bill test. Next I took about 2-3 threads off of the front take down screw. Tightened the bbl clamp screw down. Tightened the guide rail screws till just seated and then backed them off 1/4 turn. All of this and from bench my groups improved 1". I am now shooting 5" groups at 25yds with rem golden bullets and cci minimags are about 4 1/2" at 25yds. So im starting to think its not the rifle. I think it might be an ammo issue, or more likely, the remington junk scope that came with the rifle, which is really a $20.00 BSA rebranded scope is bad. It might just be me but it looks like when I tap the scope, or just move the rifle the crosshairs seem to...vibrate? if that makes any sence? It looks like they jump around but I am far from an expert, just imo. I have no feeding issues so i know that its not a guild rail or mag problem. Any suggestions for testing the scope? I dont have another one to swap out with and moneys kind of tight right now. No iron sites on the rifle.

Juggalo Reign
January 8, 2012, 11:55 PM
Actually I have a good feeling it might be the scope as I recently picked up a used mint 700 varmint in 7mm mag and ive been having the exact same problem with it. Granted ive only run fed hydroshok through it but its all over the paper at 100yrds locked in the vice and theyre is no way that should happen with a 700 of any variant. Guess what they both have in common? Both have the stock rem scope that came with the rifle. Anyone else have problems with rem package glass?

husker
January 9, 2012, 12:25 AM
I put the lil rem scope on a Beeman pellet rifle. it lasted about a dozen shots & that was that for the horizontal cross hair. dnt know where it went,but it aint there no more

LoonWulf
January 9, 2012, 02:40 AM
the springs inside the scope may be weak, or something may have come loose, it happens and only real way to test it is to get a different scope. Anybody you can borrow one from localy? If not drop me your addy, i can probably dig up a spare scope.

788Ham
January 9, 2012, 02:58 AM
Take the scope off and try the iron sights! See where you're hitting then, if it shoots fine, better groups, then throw that scope into the trash! If you're wanting to just plink with it, you'll do fine, if you're a serious 100 yd. shooter, buy a better scope, then let us know how it shoots. Most cheap scopes are like the other guy stated, "10 or 12 shots out of my pellet gun, horizontal cross hair gone.", too much hassle to fool with. Hope you get it straightened out soon.

Smokey Joe
January 9, 2012, 11:27 AM
To all & sundry, including Juggalo Reign--May I endorse the HUGE volume of info available to anyone who logs in on the Rimfire Central site. They have a forum dedicated to the 597 specifically, and it is chock-full of really good information.

They are more specialized than here @ THR, and frankly I prefer THR for general things, tossing around ideas, philosophical discussion, and of course, centerfires of any description, etc, etc, but, boy, if you have a problem or question about a specific rimfire arm, there is nothing like RFC!

I learned enough mousing around on the 597 forum of RFC, that now I feel confident of being able to get mine up & running, maintain it, improve it, and add anything available that I want in the way of retro accessories. Oh, and I don't, any more, feel like my 597 is just an "inferior 10-22."

(Tony the Tiger voice) GRRRR-EAT!! (/Tony the Tiger voice)

Juggalo Reign
January 9, 2012, 03:59 PM
Thank you very much for the offer Loonwulf, but I just when out today and picked up a centerpoint, yeah i know, to test out. It was the only thing in my price range that wasnt sold out as hunting season just ended here in good ol' WV, and no one stocks anything after hunting season here. $53 out the door at dicks. AR22 version with the illuminated mildot. Off to the range now to test it out and ill report back tonight to see if i have to rma this rifle.

Bobson
January 9, 2012, 04:15 PM
So im starting to think its not the rifle. I think it might be an ammo issue, or more likely, the remington junk scope that came with the rifle, which is really a $20.00 BSA rebranded scope is bad. It might just be me but it looks like when I tap the scope, or just move the rifle the crosshairs seem to...vibrate?
No disrespect, but this makes no sense whatsoever. Logically, it's impossible that your optics are the cause of your rifle's accuracy problem, based on the information you've given us. In Post #1, you said:

Maybe im just a little rusty? So out comes the vice. Lock'er down and tight. Good to try again. Another 3 shots and all over the paper....Maybe she doesnt like remington golds? so out comes some wildcat. Surely a change of ammo will make this kitten purr! Wait, thats not right! Again all over the paper!

Your scope has nothing to do with the accuracy problem as you've explained it. If it's shooting "all over the paper" with numerous brands of ammo, as you said several different times, the problem is the rifle itself. Send it in to Remington.

The scope may very well be a POS - but it's not possible for the scope to be causing a rifle that's held firmly in a vice to shoot a 5" pattern at 50 yards. FWIW, my BIL has a 597. It shoots half-inch groups at 50 yards all day long. I'm not a fan of the rifle, or of Remington, but I can't deny that rifle can shoot - and it's 100% stock.

Juggalo Reign
January 9, 2012, 06:38 PM
Went to the range. Must have been the rem scope because mini mags grouped 2" @ 25yrds. Goldenbullets are still 5" so I guess it just doesn't like them. Just need to find the right ammo now and ill be good to go.

LoonWulf
January 9, 2012, 07:12 PM
2"s at 25yds still seems huge to me, my old 597 shot everything into that at 50 and most ammo went into 1"s or so. How are your scope mounts? Do you have it attached to the dovetail? or did yours come with a weaver rail? and is everything tight.

Juggalo Reign
January 9, 2012, 08:56 PM
Ill just have to play around with some different ammo manufacturers and loads to find something that will give me the sub moa groups im looking for. Any load recommendations? Saw a video on youtube with someone testing different loads and Fiocchi 38gr CPHP shot 8 shots through the same whole at 50yrds so i guess thats where i might start. The reason i say this is because in the vid he was getting similar results to mine. golden bullets all over the paper, cci velocitors grouped about 3", federal about 4" and Fiocchi stacked same whole all at 50yrds. heres the link for anyone interested:

http://youtu.be/BuxoHFDoV-w

Juggalo Reign
January 9, 2012, 08:59 PM
2"s at 25yds still seems huge to me, my old 597 shot everything into that at 50 and most ammo went into 1"s or so. How are your scope mounts? Do you have it attached to the dovetail? or did yours come with a weaver rail? and is everything tight.
The scope mounts are tight and true. The scope actually came with dual band rings so movement shouldnt be a problem. It is attached to the dovetails, but it is as tight as it can be without striping the groves or the screws. Its drilled and taped for a weaver mount but there is not one installed.

husker
January 9, 2012, 09:04 PM
If 2 inches is the best it will do at 25 yards. Take it back. ITS A LEMON!

You should be rag holing 1 shot after the other at 25 yards.

Bobson
January 9, 2012, 09:07 PM
Ill just have to play around with some different ammo manufacturers and loads to find something that will give me the sub moa groups im looking for.
If you put your rifle in a vice and got 5" groups at 25 yards with any factory ammo, you won't get "sub MOA" performance with anything. Send your rifle in to Remington - there's something wrong with it. It's not possible for your optics to have been the culprit for the poor accuracy you were experiencing.

husker
January 9, 2012, 09:10 PM
Bobson is right. You vised it. Its not a scope issue. Something is not right with your 597.

Juggalo Reign
January 9, 2012, 10:35 PM
If you put your rifle in a vice and got 5" groups at 25 yards with any factory ammo, you won't get "sub MOA" performance with anything. Send your rifle in to Remington - there's something wrong with it. It's not possible for your optics to have been the culprit for the poor accuracy you were experiencing.
The vise is not clamped to the bench, so its line up, lock everything down solid on the vise (which is just sitting on the table), shoot, vise slides back an inch or 2, line everything back up, tightend down, shoot, vise moves, line up, rinse and repeat. So yes a bad scope is possible as i have to readjust after every shot. but yes, i agree with you, 2" at 25yrds is pretty bad grouping with cci or any ammo. I will be contacting remington in the morning. Will the newly free floated stock void my warrenty i wonder...

husker
January 10, 2012, 01:49 AM
I have no idea. If for some reason they dont warranty it? I wouldn't get to excited. I bet after you run a brick threw it. The groups tighten up.
Id still try to get another barrel receiver or an out right new 597 out of them

Juggalo Reign
January 10, 2012, 01:11 PM
Remington customer service was awesome. I was half expecting to fight some guy named Habib about how this is some how my fault and a you bought it, your problem now attitude. This however was not the case. They were polite, friendly and generally the best customer service company I have ever dealt with. I now have a prepaid box shipping to my house to return this this and have the barrel replaced. BTW apparently free floating the stock does not void the warranty. Only if you were to modify the bbl or the receiver. Hopefully some time in the next week I will be getting a tack driver in the mail.

SG1
January 10, 2012, 01:51 PM
Glad you got some positive movement on this Juggalo. I really like my 597 and have had zero accuracy issues. Really, I've had no issues whatsoever.

I will say my 597 does NOT like any ammo from Remington, but shoots Federal bulk flawlessly.

LoonWulf
January 10, 2012, 04:12 PM
I dont think ANYTHING likes remington rimfire ammo lol. Atleast not any of mine have.

husker
January 10, 2012, 05:08 PM
Awesome. I still want one in 17hmr. Hard to find anymore.

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