After seventeen years of opening our land to hunting


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Hangingrock
January 6, 2012, 10:51 AM
After seventeen years of opening our land to hunting by permission only we’ve regrettably decided to terminate hunting period. During that time we never charged a fee and were fair to all that requested permission to hunt.

This year we had an incident which was nettlesome. I waited till deer season ended then reposted the land to no trespassing & no hunting.

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Rembrandt
January 6, 2012, 11:03 AM
Hope it works out for you.

Have found that posting "No Hunting or Trespassing" signs might slow the problem down, but it won't stop it. Only tougher enforcement of the laws seems to make a difference....and trespassing isn't high on the DNR's agenda.

Best to put up cameras to catch those that can't read.

countertop
January 6, 2012, 11:03 AM
ok.

I assume you want a reaction. But its tough to react. Its your property and your fit to do as you please. What exactly was the incident? And wouldn't the more appropriate course be to simply ban that individual and/or individuals?

But its your land.

HOOfan_1
January 6, 2012, 11:27 AM
I was checking out a Wildlife Management area for the first time this year and met a guy who said he was losing out on his hunting spot. He said the man who owned the land got mad when someone shot "the big buck".

I am not an expert in deer management, but it seems to me, if he is "the big buck" then he has already spread his genes around over at least 3 or 4 years, and he will likely be dying of natural causes in another year or 2 anyway. I also don't know how you can expect someone to differentiate between the big buck with the 16 inch spread, and his 4 year old son or brother or cousin with the 14 inch spread. At the end of the day though, it is his land and if he wants to stop others from hunting on it, he doesn't really need a reason they agree with.

Double Naught Spy
January 6, 2012, 12:10 PM
I assume you want a reaction. But its tough to react. Its your property and your fit to do as you please. What exactly was the incident?

Right, so what happened? You had somebody spout off at you? Somebody left garbage behind? Gates left open? ND? Hunter wounded? Poaching?

Nettlesome? My, but that is a $3 word, I believe.

Flintknapper
January 6, 2012, 01:12 PM
Nettlesome? My, but that is a $3 word, I believe.

I kinda likes it.

I'll give $3.50.............;)


O.K. we've been baited...now lets hear what the problem was.

elkdomBC
January 6, 2012, 01:24 PM
the "Dedicated Morons, Lawbreakers and Trespassers" pay very LITTLE attention to signs,,,,,,,,,,


but,,,, Your "NO TRESPASSING SIGNS" will Defiantly EXCLUDE those responsible/respectful persons that are/were, "on your side" ,,,,,,,,,

Hangingrock
January 6, 2012, 03:59 PM
We had an incident with certain hunters arguing about their particular spot to hunt on our property. We thought and thought about resolving the issue and came to the conclusion to no longer allow hunting. I thought those that we allowed on the property would act responsibly. I’m disappointed because I thought I was a better judge of character.

lobo9er
January 6, 2012, 04:20 PM
Your call your property. I would kick out those involved. was there a fist fight, name calling , guns drawn? Is this the 1st problem?

Hangingrock
January 6, 2012, 05:33 PM
The problem could have been my expectations. I thought I was dealing with adults that could resolve the issue among themselves.

It wasn’t to be so I talked with other property owners and their advice was mixed. One individual property owner I talked to said I could lease the property out for hunting and the group of leases would be responsible for the conduct of their group along with matters of liability.

I contacted a lawyer on this subject and examined the pro and con. After giving it prolonged thought I opted to close the property to hunting.

Art Eatman
January 6, 2012, 05:50 PM
"I thought I was dealing with adults that could resolve the issue among themselves."

That immediately sent me looking for this article I ran across just this morning:

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/plundering-the-american-dream-college-students-demonstrate-the-idiocy-of-our-education-system_01052012

Read it, but please don't comment. Let's keep the politics out of the forum, okay?

floorit76
January 6, 2012, 06:08 PM
We had a similar problem several years back. One guy was family, and decided that since blood is thicker than water, if he caused problems the other guy would get the boot. It worked several times. But in the end, all he accomplished was to get everyone thrown off for a few years. Sometimes it is the only thing that gets peoples attention.

Kingcreek
January 6, 2012, 06:53 PM
"thier particular spot" wasn't really thiers.
that's the part they forgot.

buck460XVR
January 6, 2012, 07:00 PM
Always amazes me how some folks think that access to private land is a right an not a privilege and how they think a certain spot is "theirs" even tho someone else owns it. Human greed and inconsiderate acts by a few have cost the majority of folk any access at all to private land. Sorry you had a negative experience Hangingrock. Hope you get it sorted out.

Grumulkin
January 6, 2012, 09:28 PM
That is why, at those times I allow hunting on my property, I only allow one hunter or one affiliated group of hunters. That way if one screws up, they are jointly and severally responsible and will not be allowed to hunt on my place again.

Fortunately, in Ohio, one does not need to post no trespassing signs. If you are not on your own property, you must have written permission to hunt there. On my place, if they're not there with permission, law enforcement will be called.

lobo9er
January 6, 2012, 09:29 PM
Your right it wasn't thiers. It was theirs.:neener:

MCgunner
January 6, 2012, 09:46 PM
"No Trespassing" is the default in Texas, no signs necessary. If you're caught, it's a felony offense. Strait to state prison with ya. Now, you can't legally own a gun. :D That's the way it SHOULD be IMHO. I cannot STAND outlaw hunters. I know a few, soon shoot 'em as look at 'em, but it ain't legal, unfortunately. I do know one kid that was caught in the dunes on the national seashore on Padre Island. He was caught by a helicopter patrol. He did a year in TDC. They took his boat, his gun, his ATV, everything. Hope it was worth it. :rolleyes:

They STILL try, though. I watched fence riders on the Powderhorn ranch hog tying a guy they ran down with hounds one day, were on the road, a hole cut in the fence. Guy didn't quite make it back to his truck. ROFL! I didn't stop to ask, but they looked like they were waiting on the game warden. :D And another one bites the dust......

And, BTW, if you want to hunt someone's land here, you have to pay for the right and that means they have to want to lease it to you. You misbehave or violate the lease agreement, you pack it in and he keeps your money, you're out. That's the way it is. No BS down here with punks.

I wonder how many have entered the King or the Kenedy and never came out? Years ago, they didn't bother with game wardens.

Hangingrock
January 6, 2012, 09:50 PM
Land is special I’m just a temporary steward. There is a certain amount of pleasure/enjoyment and I thought others would or should benefit from. One of the satisfactions that I got was seeing youngsters get their first deer. That’s the bothersome aspect of terminating hunting on the property.

I have grand children and one particular grand child that loves it here. My adult children are not interested in the land as they’ve become city dwellers.

Enough of my idle thoughts maybe in time I may feel differently.

countertop
January 7, 2012, 01:31 AM
On both properties I hunt the owners require me to call the day before, (for a morning hunt) or a morning of, to ensure there isn't any conflict and there's only one hunter or group out at a time.

shiftyer1
January 7, 2012, 01:44 AM
I hope you change your mind and find people that truely respect what you want to do. It's sad that a couple bad ones ruin the bunch.

In the end, it's your land to do with as you please. Sorry you had to put up with such childish behavior.

mark1616
January 7, 2012, 02:04 AM
:) !

wolf695
January 7, 2012, 03:16 AM
I understand your problem, My family and I tried the nice way too! Only to have it taking as a sign of weakness, so we arrest those who trespass! We hated to do it but it works!

JohnhenrySTL
January 7, 2012, 03:41 AM
No offense, but I think some people seek land to be in control. I think it also sucks that hunting has become so industria
lized. Enjoy your new year.

olafhardtB
January 7, 2012, 05:47 AM
I often wonder why anybody feels that they can own land. It's permanent amd I just got here and soon I will leave. When I look at how much trouble landowners go to, a lot of them look like slaaves to the land, but I am generally thought of as a nut. When I try to read between the lines here I detect some remorse on your part, but if you think this was the right thing to do then do it. You have my sympathy for having to make this decision.

elkdomBC
January 7, 2012, 09:27 AM
a few years ago, the Game Wardens ( we call them CO"s "conservation officers") set up a "sting" with a Ro-Bo Deer on private property just 75 yards off of a busy road,,,,,,,,,,

not long after getting set up, a truck stops, 2 guys get out, lay on the hood and empty their rifle magazines into the " RO-BO Buck",,,,,, the Game wardens had video,shell casings, their own eye witness accounts,,,,,,,,

the culprits ??? a Government Elected Member of Provincial Parliament and a very prominent Real-estate developer ,,,,,,,,,

it takes ALL kinds,,,,,,,,,:cuss:

jimmyraythomason
January 7, 2012, 09:58 AM
Fortunately, in Ohio, one does not need to post no trespassing signs. If you are not on your own property, you must have written permission to hunt there. Same here in Alabama. There are a lot of absentee landowners so it is difficult to locate landowners to get permission and a vast portion of private land is leased by hunting clubs leaving many hunters with only public lands (aka,WMAs) available to them. I miss being able to hunt as much as I want because of a lack of land to hunt but I side with the landowners in this. Abuse the privilage of hunting another's property and you're gone!

Flintknapper
January 7, 2012, 10:27 AM
MCgunner wrote:


"No Trespassing" is the default in Texas, no signs necessary. If you're caught, it's a felony offense. Strait to state prison with ya


Well...maybe it should be this way, but it isn't. ;)

Texas has various trespass laws just as all other states do.

For it to be a felony offense it would have to Criminal Trespass and also meet certain standards found in Texas Penal Code 30.05 if anyone wants to look it up.

However, one thing IS certain...and it is the thrust of your post, Trespass is taken VERY SERIOUSLY in Texas, I would certainly agree with that.

Double Naught Spy
January 7, 2012, 10:47 AM
"No Trespassing" is the default in Texas, no signs necessary. If you're caught, it's a felony offense. Strait to state prison with ya


Well...maybe it should be this way, but it isn't.

Flintknapper is correct. "No trespassing" isn't a default and is only felonious under certain circumstances.

That "No Trespassing" isn't a default was certainly made clear several years ago when the posted purple law came into effect. Landowners apparently complained about the hardships of posting purchased signs to properly mark their properties or making signs to properly mark their property. So a change was made to 30.05 to include letting the landowner simply paint a purple swath on fence posts (dimensions, locations, etc. stipulated) which serves the same role as posted signs. The landowner need only walk his fence line and with a bucket and brush or paint cans simply make a quick mark and move on to the next post to be marked. It was faster than making or buying and then affixing signs, and much less expensive.

MCgunner
January 7, 2012, 11:20 AM
Well, just go walking out on someones land, someone with no signs that doesn't want ya there. Try the Kenedy ranch, perhaps. There aren't even fences along parts of the land cut, let alone signs.

I often wonder why anybody feels that they can own land.

Probably because they paid money for it and pay taxes every year on it? Just a thought. Spend that kinda money for a place that anyone can use? I don't think so. If I could just walk out anywhere and hunt, I'd cut a hole in the Powderhorn's fence just like that guy I saw hog tied did. :rolleyes: There are no posted signs on the Powderhorn, either, and no fences around the marsh area off Powderhorn lake. That's how most of the outlaws get in there, run up the marsh in a boat, stash it, go over the bluff. Then, it's game on cause fence riders who work for the ranch regularly patrol with dogs out there. The attraction for the outlaws is the exotics there. I know one guy that was coming in from that area in a boat. The wardens had been called about an illegal gill net out in powderhorn lake, saw him, pulled him over to check for gill nets, and he had an axis deer in his boat. He went to jail, posted bail. Exotics are treated as livestock, same as shooting one of the ranch's cows.

So long as they're in tideland areas, they're legal there. Lots of guys hunt ducks on the potholes there legally. That's kinda why I got into duck hunting as a kid, something I could do without owning land. :D Go over that bluff, though, at your own peril. So, ya see, I went to college, got an education, got out and got a good paying job, saved my coins and bought a little chunk of land so I could hunt deer/hog/dove, whatever, legally, then I'm told I don't have the right to OWN this land and keep others from hunting it? Sounds like the occupiers talking to me. Save up money and by your own little chunk of paradise and leave mine the heck alone.

MCgunner
January 7, 2012, 11:23 AM
BTW, it was my understanding that if you intentionally entered a place with a gun, it was felonious. Am I wrong about that? I know that kid that did time was convicted of felony trespass and it was on a national seashore which wasn't too smart, either. :rolleyes: I know he and his ol' man (apple doesn't fall far from the tree) had been out there many times. I worked with his dad. He, himself, had been fined for shooting a ro-bo deer. :D I don't have anything to do with those folks. His old man has a Nilgai mount from outlawing on the Kenedy down the land cut. I'd like to see what the Kenedy would do to him if they caught him down there. I'm thinkin' felony, but I haven't actually READ the law, just heard they passed the felony thing a while back at the behest of the big ranches that have the problems, so I'll default to Flintknapper's knowledge on the subject.

Hangingrock
January 7, 2012, 02:20 PM
The words remorse and control entered the subject.

Remorse: is an emotional expression of personal regret felt by a person after he or she has committed an act which they deem to be shameful, hurtful, or violent

I would say there is no remorse on my part more or less disappointment that I had to undertake the action that I took. I realize that it’ll have a negative effect on other individuals’ that bothers me some what.

Control: In regards to property ownership I regard property as an extension of my residence.

We are adjacent to a trail system and have individuals’ on occasion whom have wondered out of the woods and we don’t run them off or threaten to call the Sheriff. On the other hand there are occasions/incidents that require corrective action to be taken.

Bobson
January 7, 2012, 02:31 PM
There is a certain amount of pleasure/enjoyment and I thought others would or should benefit from. One of the satisfactions that I got was seeing youngsters get their first deer. That’s the bothersome aspect of terminating hunting on the property.Hey, its your land, so it's your decision. Seventeen years... they had a good run.

My parents won't even let me hunt on their land up in Washington state lol. My mom doesn't want the deer to get scared away - she likes seein em by the house. :p

Double Naught Spy
January 7, 2012, 02:49 PM
Well, just go walking out on someones land, someone with no signs that doesn't want ya there. Try the Kenedy ranch, perhaps. There aren't even fences along parts of the land cut, let alone signs.

Once they inform you that you are trespassing, you are obligated to leave, under Texas law which is what we are talking about.

BTW, it was my understanding that if you intentionally entered a place with a gun, it was felonious. Am I wrong about that?

Under Texas law, you are wrong about that. Once again under 30.05, what you describe is a misdemeanor.
(d) An offense under Subsection (e) is a Class C misdemeanor
unless it is committed in a habitation or unless the actor carries a
deadly weapon on or about the actor's person during the commission
of the offense, in which event it is a Class A misdemeanor. An
offense under Subsection (a) is a Class B misdemeanor, except that
the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if:
(1) the offense is committed:
(A) in a habitation or a shelter center;
(B) on a Superfund site; or
(C) on or in a critical infrastructure facility;
or
(2) the actor carries a deadly weapon on or about his
person during the commission of the offense.
(e) A person commits an offense if without express consent
or if without authorization provided by any law, whether in writing
or other form, the person:
(1) enters or remains on agricultural land of another;
(2) is on the agricultural land and within 100 feet of
the boundary of the land when apprehended; and
(3) had notice that the entry was forbidden or
received notice to depart but failed to do so.
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or
in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was
forbidden; and
(2) the person was carrying a concealed handgun and a
license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to
carry a concealed handgun of the same category the person was
carrying.

I know that kid that did time was convicted of felony trespass and it was on a national seashore which wasn't too smart, either.
The national seashore (whatever that is) isn't private land and would apparently fall under federal law, not Texas law.

MCgunner
January 7, 2012, 03:01 PM
The national seashore is managed under the national parks system. Same permit that lets me into Big Bend lets me into the NSS on north Padre Island. This kid came into it from the island, not the beach, on an ATV. All the wardens had to do from the helicopter is follow his tracks. The camo cloth was of little help. :rolleyes: Criminals are, most times, morons.

There's something else to consider for the prospective trespasser on someone's land. To me, trespass is a crime, therefore trespassers are criminals. A criminal with a gun is a threat to my personal health and safety. Think THAT one over a bit and refer to the codes involving justified use of deadly force. Now, I won't shoot someone unless they do threaten me, don't want the legal fees and hassles involved in killing someone, just sayin, if you want to poach Texas land, you might consider this fact. You might be walking into a shoot out.

http://www.nps.gov/pais/index.htm

WardenWolf
January 8, 2012, 02:50 AM
My honest advice, HangingRock, is to close your land for a year or two and then reopen it. Let people remember that it's a PRIVILEGE to hunt on your land again. That should solve the problem.

Double Naught Spy
January 8, 2012, 10:55 AM
That would be nice, but I would probably go a step further and just selectively allow folks to hunt it. Only let the people you know and really trust, and not many of them at that.

Art Eatman
January 8, 2012, 11:03 AM
Seems to me that a fella can do what he wants insofar as outsiders having access to his land. But just because one or a few can be idiots does not mean that all are.

Me, I'd look for responsible people if I wanted income from hunters. They exist; I've been part of a group of which was said, "They leave a place better than they found it."

I guess that a primary thing is to not overload a place with too many hunters. Two or three guys on a few hundred acres means there won't be arguments as to who hunts where on any given day.

ShawnC
January 9, 2012, 01:32 AM
Whenever I have hunted anyone's property, I have always made arrangements to be there for the season and either call the day before or if it's in the afternoon, knock on the door as a courtesy to let them know I'm around. I don't own any land, but if I offered someone the priveledge of using my land to hunt, I'd expect the same courtesy.

Davek1977
January 9, 2012, 07:18 AM
When I look at how much trouble landowners go to, a lot of them look like slaves to the land, but I am generally thought of as a nut. You know, there are a good many farmers, and even moreso, ranchers, who ARE "slaves to the land" and the the crops and/or livestock they produce. Know what else? Most wouldn't trade that life for any other job you could offer them. They live each and every day to work their land, and by and large, most enjoy it immensely. The rewards of land ownership are many, but I suppose to someone who has never owned any, it could seem like a hassle. True, it is NOT without difficulty, but most anything worth having takes some work to acquire and maintain. However, being able to saddle up your horse or 4wheeler, and being able to ride your property, watch the wildlife, and generally just taking pride in what is yours makes it all worth while. Maybe...for you...it wouldn't be. Thats fine too. However, the feeling of being the true "lord of your domain" is a nice feeling to have.

MCgunner
January 9, 2012, 12:38 PM
My brother-in-law owns 400 acres near Kenedy, Texas. He's getting rather wealthy off the oil shale stuff now, but has cows, loves his cows and horses along with his wife who is a horse person. They have a few select friends he lets hunt there, no charge, but those friends often help him around the place, schedule work weekends, shred, trim trees, maintain fences, whatever he needs man power for. In return, they hunt, have big BBQs there during the season, but they're all friends that he knows, not strangers, and they help him out a lot around the place. This is Texas, after all, and he could be getting MONEY for the hunting rights, but he enjoys having the company and the BBQs and doesn't need strangers on his place even if they pay for the privileged. Some of these guys are high school buddies, how long his relationships go back.

Anyway, the idea of just letting any ying yang stranger roam MY land is not palatable with me. I don't have a large place, but if I did, I wouldn't let just anyone on it, just old friends. I've let old friends hunt what I do have and my best buddy from college comes down with his boy most seasons and I go up to his place start of each north zone dove season and we have a ball. :D

Double Naught Spy
January 9, 2012, 01:44 PM
Anyway, the idea of just letting any ying yang stranger roam MY land is not palatable with me. I don't have a large place, but if I did, I wouldn't let just anyone on it, just old friends. I've let old friends hunt what I do have and my best buddy from college comes down with his boy most seasons and I go up to his place start of each north zone dove season and we have a ball.

I have done this as well. However in most cases, I still don't let folks hunt unsupervised if I haven't hunted with them previously.

I had a buddy who I let deer hunt on my place decide that I needed some predator control and killed the largest bobcat he had ever seen on my place...because "you don't want them here. They will kill all your ground nesting birds and fawns." I said, "But you were hunting deer" to which he replied, "I didn't see any and its because of animals like this bobcat."

He won't be coming back.

By contrast, I have a neighbor that I do let hunt my land for free and he has done more to help my place than I could pay for by charging hunters.

WayBeau
January 9, 2012, 03:15 PM
One of the satisfactions that I got was seeing youngsters get their first deer. That’s the bothersome aspect of terminating hunting on the property.

I have grand children and one particular grand child that loves it here.

Perhaps I've missed something, but can you not still take your grandchild hunting on your land? Why not open it up to a parent/child for any Youth hunting days that your state might have?

I agree with one of the previous posts that suggested closing it for a few years to make people appreciate what they have/had. I don't, however, see any reason for you or your family to not enjoy the land.

BBQLS1
January 9, 2012, 03:54 PM
It's a shame. I hope you dwell on it a bit and come up with an appropriate solution and are able to open the land to hunting again.

Hangingrock
January 9, 2012, 05:51 PM
I quit hunting over ten years ago. My adult children have become city dwellers’ so I don’t know if their children will develop an interest in hunting.

I’m not going to make a decision or commit myself to a course of action without a lot of thought in regards to reinstating hunting on the property.

alsaqr
January 9, 2012, 08:14 PM
One of our places had perpetual tresspasser problems for many years, despite the fact it was posted. Among the tresspassers were an OK City lawyer, an OK City cop, a former county commissioner and an itinerant hog dogger who was wanted in TX for murder and kidnapping. It stopped when i gave the neighbor exclusive hunting rights with the provision that he run off trespassers.

All farmers are good stewards of their own lands. Not all farmers are good stewards of the land they lease: While working overseas i leased a place to a big time cattle and wheat farmer. Came home after a few years and discovered deep erosion gullies in the wheat fields. He had disced up and down slope and tore out the erosion terraces.

i told him he didn't do that with his own property. He got mad and said: "Well, you got it cheap at a sheriff's auction." Threw him and his cattle off the place, recut the terraces and planted grass.

230therapy
January 9, 2012, 08:28 PM
I thought those that we allowed on the property would act responsibly.

First mistake. Read the knucklehead thread in the hunting forum.

HOOfan_1
January 9, 2012, 08:40 PM
My dad's always said that a lot of people become insane when it comes to deer hunting.

He has had guns held on him to keep him from retrieving a deer he shot.

On my favorite farm to hunt, we have to find a nice secluded spot because the place is full of guys who run up and down the farm roads at 40 mph trucks with glass pack mufflers and roaring V8s. They jump out of their truck and shoot at the slightest motion. If you don't find a place 200 yards from where they can drive their trucks, your hunting day is going to be ruined every time.

I've seen where they dumped deer they poached out of season. In the same spot I've seen where they dumped dogs they have shot...not feral dogs, these dogs still had collars on.

I don't have this type of problem when I go turkey hunting or dove hunting. Some people are just insane when it comes to deer hunting.

Art Eatman
January 9, 2012, 08:56 PM
Enough rambling venting...

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