(WI) GOP Says CCW Battle Not Over...


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Gray Peterson
February 6, 2004, 05:08 AM
Pioneer Press Article (http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/news/local/states/wisconsin/7877683.htm)

Wow. Just wow. Granted, they didn't get concealed carry this year. However, the sponsors threw everything but the kitchen sink to the Democratic wishy washies, and one traitor (Sherman) screwed it all up.

I mean, bans on carrying in schools, taverns, colleges, state buildings, the whole works. Looks like Zien's sufficiently pissed off at Sherman and the rest of the donkey bunch that now he's basically giving them the finger and saying "No more deals, no more criminal safe zones, you had a deal, and you screwed it up. You made a mess of your own bed, now you lie in it".

My word, Wisconsin's 2004 CCW law may be as good as Oregon's! We have no criminal safe zones here except for court houses, and almost all of them have metal detectors and such anyways.

Thoughts?

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AJ Dual
February 6, 2004, 10:32 AM
Exactly. If we can keep the "voter rage" and the momentum going, the GOP is set up even better for a complete legislative takeover in WI. The Liberal Milwaukee Journal Sentinel knows they may be screwed on CCW, and lots of other Liberal sacred cows, and Gov. Doyle veto overrides might start flowing like a river.

We could wind up with one of the best bills in the nation if we elect enough pro-gun Republicans this fall. We may well wind up with a CCW bill with no public records to keep the press from trying last-ditch tantrums of printing applicant lists (endangering lives to boot) and none of the nonsensical bans on resturaunts, hospitals etc. We may wind up with nothing but schools, fed property, and courthouses with metal detectors being banned. Even the state universities may experience smackdown on CCW like they have in Utah. :D

Before the Senate switched to Republicans in the last election cycle, the Dem. Sen. leader, Chavala illegaly ignored a voice-vote to call the CCW bill and closed the session until Doyle could be elected. (It would have passed, and interem Repub. Lt. Gov McCallum would have signed) So the back-stabbing over the CCW bill is hardly limited to just this year. We're out for blood.

Gov. Doyle has very low approval ratings, and the state GOP is foaming at the mouth for the first chance to get a veto override on a WI Gov. in decades.

There are other veto overrides that narrowly missed by 1 flipped vote during the past legislative year, such as a property tax "freeze" on all cities and counties. WI is about the third-highest tax burden in the U.S. and that was a hot buttion issue. Splitting traditional Dem. bases like the AARP war-era elderly who have no mortgage, but struggle to pay property taxes on Social Security etc.

If the elections go our way, we may well lose the battle to win the war even more completely in the end. I won't be CCW-"bummed" until I see how the '04 Assembly elections go this fall.

AJ Dual
February 6, 2004, 10:53 AM
The liberal editors know the Democratic party may well be screwed for at least an election cycle over the CCW defeat.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/editorials/feb04/205311.asp

Editorial: Lawmakers in cross hairs

From the Journal Sentinel

Posted: Feb. 5, 2004

Backers of expanded gun rights narrowly lost a big one in Madison the other day. Brace yourself for payback. The Assembly fell one vote shy of overriding Gov. Jim Doyle's veto of a measure that would have permitted ordinary residents to carry concealed weapons. Now, the proposal's advocates are promising retribution against lawmakers who sided with Doyle.

That's no idle threat - a fact that foes of the measure should take to heart. The gun lobby does keep score; it does reward lawmakers who do its bidding and punishes those who don't. In contrast, the other side of the issue is not so well organized.

This imbalance explains why on gun issues the Legislature is often out of kilter with the people. The concealed-carry controversy is a prime example: Most lawmakers support ending the state's 134-year-old prohibition against carrying hidden weapons, even though, according to a couple of polls, most Wisconsin residents oppose that measure.

I guess they meant a couple of polls that used questions like: "Do you support a law that would allow hidden weapons in schools?" :rolleyes: Instead of: "Do you support concealed carry for law abiding citizens who have passed a comprehensive background check, and a state approved safety and firearms training class like thirty six other states already have?"


To avoid losing even more ground in the Legislature, proponents of sound gun regulations shouldn't just breathe sighs of relief over the Assembly's failure to come up with the necessary votes to override Doyle's veto. They should seek to support, with time or money or both, lawmakers targeted by the gun lobby.

The prime candidate for support is a North Woods Democrat, Rep. Gary Sherman, of Port Wing, who was a co-sponsor of the concealed-carry legislation but then sided with Doyle on the veto. His is a profile in courage. :barf: He voted to override even though he knew that he was courting trouble from the powerful gun lobby. But he felt that the Republicans were simply trying to embarrass his governor.

I see nothing wrong with embarassing that creep at all.


Wisconsin ought not to go the way of Missouri: The people there voted down a concealed-carry measure in a referendum. The Legislature passed it anyway. The governor vetoed the measure. Finally, last September, the Legislature voted to override the veto.


A "referendum" manipulated by churning up every last bit of the poverty-pimping "Dolist" vote dependant on their anti-gun liberal massas for the welfare check... :rolleyes:


Advocates of concealed carry in Wisconsin promise that the issue will return. Foes of the measure should take its proponents at their word - and seek to counter their influence.

From the Feb. 6, 2004 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

Shooter 2.5
February 6, 2004, 11:24 AM
About the only thing the Bill didn't have was the notice on the police computer that the driver of a car has a CCW license. I think that was one of the problems the police had with the bill.

If we have to have licenses instead of our full rights, I don't mind the officers knowing I have a CCW. Here in Texas, the cops respect CCW holders.

mpthole
February 6, 2004, 11:28 AM
Since it seems like its not a matter of "if" we ever get concealed carry, but "when" we get concealed carry... what are your thoughts on pushing the issue with open-carry marches like our friends in OH did?

AJ Dual
February 6, 2004, 12:38 PM
I'm game for that, especially on weekends when the weather is better. Madison is best politically (and the most "in your face" as Madison is nominally more anti and liberal), but Milwaukee is potentially better exposure with the most media and population.

Unfortunately for "the cause", I'm committed to saving all vacation and sick time for the impending arrival of twins in July. Wifey will need all the help she can get, so I'm really hoping it's on a weekend. Although I'd recommend a weekend Open Carry Walk so we can guarantee max turnout anyway.

Call me chicken, but I would like to know that I'd be there with significantly more marchers than will easily fit into one or two paddy wagons. :D

Open carry is 100% legal in WI, and if we notify the responsible police dept. beforehand and dot all the I's and cross the T's, we should be untouchable, but we'd want to plan this carefully.

I also think I'll take the cheapest handgun I can find a holster for, just in case it does wind up in an evidence locker.
:uhoh:

-more thoughts-

The good thing is we can leverage any advice and intel from the Ohio CCW org. I would presume we want to set up some guidelines for our marchers to minimize any stereotyping the anti/liberal media is going to try.

We get one fat guy with a fu man chu beard and tatoos, wearing camoflauge and a dirty Skoal hat, you know with 100% certainty who's going to make it on TV that night. One grubby person, if they make it on the news, could ruin the effort of the whole march.

I would suggest these for starters, some of the guidelines seem offensive, but we have to remember we're fighting a propaganda war, and the other side WILL NOT PLAY FAIR. We can not afford to give them one iota of leverage to cast aspersions on the gun owner.

- Bring "Normal pistols" Leave the TEC-9, MAC 10, Desert Eagle, and the AR pistol at home. Have a normal OWB belt holster, no shoulder rigs, or thigh rigs.

- Pistols in holsters STAY IN THE HOLSTERS. Open Carry is legal. "Brandishing is not".

- Signs, if carried, should have clear, consise themes and facts on them. Nothing that's "Kill em all, let God sort them out" in nature.

- We need women marchers, the closer to 50% the better.

- Wear "clean cut" clothes. Dress business casual. No camo, no biker wear, no rocker or stoner wear, no "redneck" wear, no NASCAR stuff etc. Khakis, clean jeans, polo shirts, button down oxford etc.

xenophon
February 6, 2004, 01:06 PM
I also think I'll take the cheapest handgun I can find a holster for, just in case it does wind up in an evidence locker.

I'm actually shopping for such an "open carry" gun right now, something probably cheap and used just to serve that purpose. And I totally agree on the "established guidelines" for open carry marches. Should be a meeting about 30 min. prior to go over the rules, and it's an absolute must that everyone participating follows them, depise the fact that the other side will be provoking and instigating. Getting a few senators to participate would be even better, and as always, a large crowd.

x

mpthole
February 6, 2004, 02:17 PM
Getting a few senators to participate would be even better, Rep. Huebsch has been an outspoken proponent of concealed carry. I wonder if he'd join us...? A co-worker of mine actually knows him fairly well. I'll have to mention it.

Monkeyleg
February 6, 2004, 06:44 PM
Before I'd commit to taking part in an open carry march, I'd want to find out from the folks in Ohio just what they thought theirs accomplished.

This is a political issue, and will be won at the ballot box and later in the individual legislators' offices. It's hard for me to figure out what a march would do.

On the other hand, some reporting from the Journal Sentinel about other states' experiences would go a long way toward defusing the issue. And that's not as impossible as it seems. A friendly lunch with a reporter like Steve Walters or someone like him could result in a story that really informs the public on the issue.

The other thing we need to do is make sure that every supporter of concealed carry votes against the sheriffs who opposed this bill. Many of them will be on the November ballot.

We should also be looking at the Badger State Sheriffs Association. For a long time, they've wanted to eliminate the State Patrol, since the Patrol essentially duplicates what the sheriffs departments do in patrolling the highways. If we could get rid of the State Patrol commanders who lobbied the past months, and get pro-CCW sheriffs, we'd be in much better shape.

Also, the next bill should have something in it for hunters, something that hunters really want. We didn't have enough of their support, and that cost us. I've already made some suggestions to Senator Zien's chief of staff, and the response was favorable.

Doing any or all of the above takes a lot of work. Let's hope that people will be willing to do so. Those who don't have the time should consider donating money to the Wisconsin Concealed Carry Movement, a political action committee registered with the Wisconsin State Elections Board. Every single dime donated goes to the candidates who support concealed carry. No volunteer receives any money. The address is: WCCM, 3263 S. 45th St., Milwaukee, WI 53219.

I'm the treasurer, and anyone who wants to view the reports that I file with the Elections Board is more than welcome to do so. The reports are also available from the Elections Board.

I made a promise to Senator Russ Decker to donate money from our PAC to Senator Roger Breske, who was the first to break with Doyle, and I intend to stick to that promise. Decker is taking a lot of heat from the papers in his district for voting to override. We need to show our friends that they can count on us, and we need to punish our enemies, beginning with Sherman.

With the max donation to senators from PAC's being $1000, and the max to representatives being $500, and with a total of five senators and six representatives who voted for the override, you can see that we need a lot of "rewarding" money. Add to that the number of enemies to punish, and we need to be able to raise somewhere in the neighborhood of $30,000.

I hope people will follow through on this.

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