[doseyclwn]

I received an umbrella as a gift that is red, white, and blue and pretty much looks like the flag. I like it a lot, but would it be disrespectful to the flag to use it? Yeah, it's a silly question but I don't want to get it wrong.


thanks.

[HABU]

IMO, if it looks like the flag of our country, yet is not the flag, it is disrespectful. No doubt others will say "its just an umbrella".

[HABU]

Another flag realted discussion.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6307

[Drjones]

I recall reading somewhere (I think in the "Book of Virtues"), that, as HABU said, if it isn't a FLAG, then it is disrespectful to the flag.

This includes clothing, swimsuits, hats, etc.

Though I make a motion to make bikinis exempt! :D

[jmbg29]

I'll second that motion.:)*


This is off the Veterans of Foreign Wars site. Of course all they did was risk getting their :cuss: shot off to preserve our Republic so we can have a flag.


Flag Etiquette

Flag Questions and Answers •
How To Fold A Flag •
Federal Flag Code •


The federal flag code says the universal custom is to display the U.S. flag from sunrise to sunset on buildings and stationary flagstaffs in the open, but when a patriotic effect is desired the flag may be displayed 24-hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness. Also, the U.S. flag should not be displayed when the weather is inclement, except when an all-weather flag is displayed.

Displaying the Flag

· ON SAME STAFF
U.S. flag at peak, above any other flag except a flag of another nation

· GROUPED
U.S. flag goes to its own right. Flags of other nations are flown at same height.

· MARCHING
U.S. flag to marchers right (observer's left).

· ON SPEAKER'S PLATFORM
When displayed with a speaker's platform, it must be above and behind the speaker. If mounted on a staff it is on the speaker's right.

· DECORATION
Never use the flag for decoration. Use bunting with the blue on top, then white, then red.

· SALUTE
Head bare (women and military leave hats on), right hand over heart, standing at attention

· OVER A STREET
Union (stars) face north or east depending on the direction of the street.

· HALF STAFF
On special days, the flag may be flown at half-staff. On Memorial Day it is flown at half-staff until noon and then raised.


· Do not let the flag touch the ground.
· Do not fly flag upside down unless there is an emergency.
· Do not carry the flag flat, or carry things in it.
* Do not use the flag as clothing.
· Do not store the flag where it can get dirty.
· Do not use it as a cover.
· Do not fasten it or tie it back. Always allow it to fall free.
· Do not draw on, or otherwise mark the flag.



Copyright © 1996-2001; Veterans of Foreign Wars of United States. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy

[Wildalaska]

Yeah, it's a silly question but I don't want to get it wrong.

I reserve my right, as a loyal American, to desecrate my countries flag as part of my right to express myself.

WildfreespeechAlaska

[DadOfThree]

I reserve my right, as a loyal American, to desecrate my countries flag as part of my right to express myself.
I'm not really sure where that right comes from. I personally don't think that freedom of expression is the same as freedom of speech. But assuming that it is the same, if I see someone intentionally desecrating the flag, I will immediately use my right to freedom of speech. I would let them know exactly how I felt about them and their lack of upbringing. I would try my very best to cause them to make me exercise my right to self defense ;)
Yeah, it's just a piece of cloth but to me it symbolizes the very essence of freedom and what others gave so that the desecrators can spit on it. Spoiled brats may have the right to be spoiled brats but they should know better.

[Hkmp5sd]

Never use the flag for decoration. * Do not use the flag as clothing.

Would this include flag patches worn on military/police uniforms, jackets or hats? What about the current THR logo?

[doseyclwn]

Okay, well here is the umbrella in question....


http://www.babyblade.addr.com/Flag%20Umbrella.jpg

So what do y'all think? Desecration or not?

[Chris Rhines]

May be desecration, may not be. What it is, is yours. Thus, the decision on what to do with it is yours and yours alone.

- Chris

[doseyclwn]

May be desecration, may not be. What it is, is yours. Thus, the decision on what to do with it is yours and yours alone.

Agreed. In this country I have the LEGAL right to do what I wish with it. However, I am attempting to be concerned about how I treat the flag of this country out of respect for those that have defended it. That is my choice. And I ask on this forum because I CHOOSE not to want to offend those that have done so, especially since I have not.

I really did not start this thread to debate whether or not it's okay to desecrate the flag. I just wanted to find out if using this umbrella is. That's it.

[Monte Harrison]

Is there any other country that treats their flag like a religious icon, with strict rules regarding how it is to be treated and displayed?

My own opinion: Anything short of American flag toilet paper is OK with me.

[2nd Amendment]

So far as I know all nations have certain ceremonies and rules regarding the handling and display of their flags. The flag is a symbol of the nation, its' history and people. Of course, one may not respect another countrys history or system, it may genuinely not be worthy of respect, but that's not the point.

I don't combine the stars and stripes on anything. I've got a red, white and blue jacket, but no stars, etc. If it has all the accoutrements of the flag then it belongs on a pole or put away as a keepsake. That's probably what I'd do with the umbrella.

[bogie]

Well, I think it's kinda cool.

Of course, before 9/11, folks would think that you're some sorta right-wing loonie...

[cratz2]

I have the utmost respect for those that have laid their lives on the line to preserve our freedom. If you chose to use that freedom to arguably desecrate the flag, then more power to you. If you catch a vet in a bad mood or the son of a man that paid the highest price and is having a really bad day and you get the living snot whipped out of you, then more power to you for that as well.

I think anyone that asks if a certain action or use of a flag is a form of desecration, knows the answer.

[dev_null]

No offense, but if you have to ask others whether or not it's OK, you don't know what the flag stands for.

-0-

[Col. Mustard]

I have a hard time getting offended if someone chooses to display stars and stripes, even if it is not, technically, a flag. The umbrella in question here could reasonably be considered bunting material, rather than a flag. Absent an intent to desecrate, the showing of patriotic colors really ought not be discouraged. Otherwise, we run the risk of looking really silly. Are we opposed to the lapel pin Bush wore during his State of the Union speech (and every other time I've seen him on TV)? Shall I (respectfully) discard the leather jacket I own with the flag embroidered across the back? Must we pass a law prohibiting police from having a flag sewn to the sleeve of their uniforms?

I think the question here is not, or should not be, whether a display of stars and stripes is a flag, but whether the intent is to honor the country; for which it stands, one nation, under God... With all the indignities being inflicted on our Constitutional system, perceived slights to the Flag seem pretty small potatoes.

[Drjones]

Is there any other country that treats their flag like a religious icon, with strict rules regarding how it is to be treated and displayed?

Is there any other country nearly as great as the United States?

What's your point? Others do (or don't do) something, so we should follow suit? :rolleyes:

[jmbg29]

Put me down for what cratz2 said.

P.S. I'll try not to knock all of the snot out; it's an important part of your immune system you know.;)

[doseyclwn]

No offense, but if you have to ask others whether or not it's OK, you don't know what the flag stands for.

I respectfully disagree. I would be willing to be a lot of money that a lot of patriotic americans are not COMPLETELY versed in flag etiquette. I can't believe folks are giving me crap for wanting to do the right thing.

[doseyclwn]

I think anyone that asks if a certain action or use of a flag is a form of desecration, knows the answer.

Again, I will have to respectfully disagree. I proudly display the red, white, and blue yet I don't know all the rules of etiquette. I figured these forums, being populated by a lot of patriotic, knowledgeable americans would be a good place to find the answer. Of course, I know that if I were to make an umbrella out of a flag, that would be unacceptable. However, this is not an umbrella made out of a flag. This is an umbrella that contains all the elements of a flag without actually being a flag. It's a good umbrella whatever it looks like, and I was thinking about using it, but did not want to disrespect the flag. THAT is why I asked. I have decided not to use it.

[Ed Brunner]

If it is not a "flag", then it cannot be considered "disrespect to the flag".
I do not believe that just any collection of red white and blue stripes with white stars deserves my respect

[cratz2]

I don't mean to 'be giving you crap' for asking. Just I think this issue is like asking about the price on a yacht. If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it.

If you have to ask if something is being disrepectful of our flag, it probably is.

[KarlG]

Your umbrella symbolizes our flag. It is not a flag. Let it rain mud. You are twice removed. It is a symbol of a symbol. It is not the actual nation.

Wearing a patch on a sleeve as noted ealier is not wearing a flag as clothing. Wearing a flag as a toga would be. Cutting up an actual flag and making pants out of it would be. Tieing two such patches together and using it as a bikini top would be using a flag as clothing.

Doseycywn, just to keep the post gun related, I suggest that you do not shoot the umbrella. It will very likely start to leak.

I want to note that I consider your umbrella as display of patriotism and pride in country.

[GAMALOT]

D, there is a bit of emotion here and your question is a good one.
I agree with some and dis agree with others.
I fought for the flag and it means a great deal to me. I do not find your umbrella offensive in any way, nor do I consider it a flag!
All I would expect from he who carries your umbrella is that they be a good american and love this country and what it stands for.
Ofcourse, I guess I expect that from those who are not sporting your umbrella too.
Is it not the point that we who seek refuge here in america should always be respectful of her. I was a great deal more offended last night while watching our President speak and observing Hillary and the Senator with dual citizenship talking instead of paying attention.

[samualt]

I see no problem with putting the American flag on umbrellas, clothes, or the hood of my car. I think it shows patriotism. As long as it isn't trying to make a negative statement then "Go for it!". Just don't desecrate a real flag doing those things!

Of course, my statement above doesn't mention whether it is tacky or not. LOL. But no one ever accused us Americans of being too elegant no how. :D

[DadOfThree]

Is there any other country that treats their flag like a religious icon, with strict rules regarding how it is to be treated and displayed?
The answer is yes!!!
Having spent the day in a Panamanian jail for a day for not standing at attention while the flag of Panama was being raised, I know a little about the subject. ;) I was sitting at a bus stop in US Army uniform and didn't see the flag being raised. I heard the national anthem being played but didn't know what it was so I just sat waiting for my bus listening to the music. I was picked up by the Panamanian police/national guard and taken to a military jail. Took about 12 hours for the Us officials to get me out. This was in the days of Noriega before the Panama invasion where he was ousted.
By the way, I am not advocating making US citizens show respect for the flag or anything else by use of some law. I think if you understand what people have given for the freedoms we now enjoy, you would want to show respect on your own.