AR Barrel nut removal. Finding out the hard way.


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fin
January 9, 2012, 07:57 PM
For those interested in installing a foregrip, you might want to prepare yourself. I thought I was just going to buy a barrel nut wrench and screw that puppy off. After some research and personal trial and error, I realize that many brands of new AR's have this thing torqued down REALLY tight. Long story short, what is needed on most new AR's is:

- good Barrel nut wrench with a handle that allows long leverage or attaching a long leverage arm. Don't cheap out on this or you will just get pissed off and possibly damage your rifle. ($35)
- an upper vice block ($35)
- a vice ($$$)
- Torque wrench ($40)

In other words, getting a gunsmith to do this might just save you some money if you are not planning to do it more than a few times. Here is the longer story:

I recently bought a Troy TRX, expecting "minor" gunsmithing. Getting the gas block off was a cinch, the barrel nut is something else. I am working on a brand new PSA rifle. I ordered a Barska AR wrench, which I realize is a mediocre tool, but for $15 I couldn't resist giving it a shot. Hindsight I might try the PRI wrench which has 5 prongs. Three prongs is just not enough contact for the torque required.

To begin with I tried using the three prong side of the barrel nut wrench, which fits well, but this thing is on there really tight. After breaking some teeth, I moved to the opposite side which engages all of the teeth on the nut. The only good thing I can say about the barska tool is that it did engage the mil-spec nut adequately. The problem is that this side constantly wants to get pushed off the nut by the Delta ring. This is why the five prong tool may work well, because the prongs slide in under the delta ring.

The problem with the barska combo wrench is that you can't really slip a steel pipe on it to increase your leverage because both ends are wrenches, or at least it would have to be a decent size pipe. Also, the half-inch cut-out is too large, so inserting another leverage wrench doesn't mate firmly at all.

Without a vice, I was sitting on the receiver which was wrapped in a towel on my work bench, pushing the wrench into the nut against the delta ring with one hand, and framming the other end of the wrench with a hammer. It wouldn't budge. Then I tried standing on the wrapped receiver, and powers-quatting the wrench. It still didn't budge. The next step will be making this a two man job, having a friend stand on the receiver, while I stand on the barrel, and we both jump up and down while pulling on the wrench. If that doesn't work, I will just grab the barrel with both hands, and swing it like a baseball bat into a tree or the side of my house to see if it will loosen up a bit.

In the end, I determined that I can either buy a vice, another wrench, and a vice block. Or I could be patient and send it to a gunsmith and probably save some money as well as some damage to my rifle.

I realize that this was not a professional approach, but I wanted to share some humor, vent some frustration, and maybe give someone interested in doing the same a heads up.

Oh by the way I have hear of using heat to help loosen things up. Does anyone know how to detail that procedure? I am not really sure how I could effectively heat up the barrel nut.

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rcmodel
January 9, 2012, 08:26 PM
Just heat the upper.

If there is lock-tight, it will smoke it out.

In theory:
If the nut is just super tight, it will expand the threads in the upper away from the nut threads.

Heating the nut would expand the nut threads in the upper and make it even tighter.

rc

justice06rr
January 9, 2012, 10:42 PM
Wow thanks for sharing that. this is why i'm not upgrading to a free-float for now, just a standard quadrail replacement.

for all that headache you went through, the gunsmith option might've been a better approach.

Chip1wa
January 9, 2012, 11:00 PM
Loctite, and heat is your friend.

Heat the nut until you see the first whisp of smoke coming from the joint and then attempt removal.

Heat softens thermoset plastics like anaerobic threadlockers.

velocette
January 10, 2012, 10:12 AM
With all due respect, when doing work on firearms, it is cheaper by far to invest in the proper tools of good quality to do the job correctly. This means a good vice, correct fixtures, wrenches and screwdrivers.
The investment paid now will save much agony, busted fingers, damaged firearms, and foul language in the future.
I know, it sounds like sniping at you, but years of experience and not a few damaged guns have taught me the lesson and reinforced the education.

Roger

MtnCreek
January 10, 2012, 10:40 AM
Without a vice, I was sitting on the receiver which was wrapped in a towel on my work bench, pushing the wrench into the nut against the delta ring with one hand, and framming the other end of the wrench with a hammer. It wouldn't budge. Then I tried standing on the wrapped receiver, and powers-quatting the wrench. It still didn't budge. The next step will be making this a two man job, having a friend stand on the receiver, while I stand on the barrel, and we both jump up and down while pulling on the wrench. If that doesn't work, I will just grab the barrel with both hands, and swing it like a baseball bat into a tree or the side of my house to see if it will loosen up a bit.

I hope you have video of this. Please post it one Youtube, Please!:D

JT Armorers Tool, Upper Receiver Block and a Bench Vise makes removal pretty easy. Add a Torque Wrench and some Anti-Seize Grease and you’ve got everything needed to put it back together.

MtnCreek
January 10, 2012, 10:44 AM
fin,
Where are you located? If near me, I will let you use my wrench and block.

MikeRussell
January 10, 2012, 12:30 PM
There isn't supposed to be LokTite on the threads. There is supposed to be a dab of high temp grease (2 diff metals, to prevent them from corroding together). I actually use a high temp anti-seize.

I'm surprised that your Troy rail didn't come with a wrench. My new Troy VTAC did...very beefy, it has replaced my other wrench now.

fin
January 10, 2012, 09:20 PM
With all due respect, when doing work on firearms, it is cheaper by far to invest in the proper tools of good quality to do the job correctly. This means a good vice, correct fixtures, wrenches and screwdrivers.
The investment paid now will save much agony, busted fingers, damaged firearms, and foul language in the future.
I know, it sounds like sniping at you, but years of experience and not a few damaged guns have taught me the lesson and reinforced the education.

Yeah I know, No worries. I am experimenting and having fun with it. "One day" I will have the cash to do everything the right way. For now, I will have to humor myself with my mistakes here and there.

I hope you have video of this. Please post it one Youtube, Please!
Sorry, no video, but maybe next time!

I'm surprised that your Troy rail didn't come with a wrench.
As for the Troy wrench, the TRX has its own proprietary barrel nut that is a different size than mil-spec, so it does come with a wrench, but not one that fits the current nut. These actually used to come with a double sided wrench, and I was disappointing to see that mine did not.

I appreciate the generosity MtnCreek, but I am in VA. I will be taking it to a smith this weekend, so its no big deal.

I am still curious as how to apply the heat. Do you lay it on the stove or something?

Strykervet
January 10, 2012, 10:08 PM
They don't need to be on that tight usually, the spec. is what, 30-80lbs? That is pretty variable and tells you "torque" isn't the issue, but "over-torquing" is. And loctite is the wrong stuff to use, I think it is moly lube. But I use TW25B, I found out that one of the better manufacturers use it too (KAC maybe?). I also hand torque it back on, the gas tube lines everything up --no torque wrench needed. Once you've done a few you don't need the torque wrench anymore, but it is kind of important until you know what to look for. Catch 22 there.

Yes, you do need the vice and block. A real wrench is nice too, one that grips all teeth if you are working with those. This stuff is required, even if you can get it off and back on without it (in one case I did, and in another I didn't) you risk damaging the receiver. They are just thin aluminum where you are doing all that torquing.

A strap wrench is nice to have too, especially if you deal with the KAC FF rails.

And worse thing that will happen if you don't get it tight enough is that you'll notice your barrel is a little loose --you'll get the hint when you get 20MOA groups. But it is an easy fix then, just redo it and move it one notch over if you can.

An old leather belt, cut in four peices and doubled up, make nice vice blocks for the barrel in a pinch, but don't go too tight. You can damage things with torque but not be able to see the damage.

Worst thing ever to torque off was an STG58 flash hider.

rbernie
January 10, 2012, 10:57 PM
A vice and action block is your friend, as is a quality wrench. I use DPMS blocks and multi-wrench, and have zero issues or drama.

Just sayin'.

:)

MtnCreek
January 11, 2012, 10:04 AM
I am still curious as how to apply the heat. Do you lay it on the stove or something?

I had similar issues with a buffer tube on a Beretta 391 shotgun. I used a 'camp' gas bottle w/ a small torch head. Apply heat, don’t cook it.

nyresq
January 13, 2012, 01:40 AM
I have removed several free float tubes and barrel nuts from factory rifles (when you have the tools its amazing how many "friends" you will have with AR's). Each and every one I took off had loctite from the factory on the threads and a little heat will liquify the loctite and make it easier to loosen the nut. Red loctite is a half step away from a spot weld on the threads. I have seen a ton of broken tools and busted finger due to loctite. Loctite will tell you heat the red stuff before you even try to take it off. The blue, purple and green you can muscle off, but the red solidifies after a few days and will not "break loose". Heat and proper tools is the only way to avoid broken parts and fingers.

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