Anyone have one of these? Opinions?


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viper7342
January 10, 2012, 02:18 AM
I am strongly considering purchasing an AR type rifle in .223 Remington and would like opinions on the best M4 type rifle at the most reasonable price, I will use it as a target / plinking type rifle and possibly for a home defense / zombie elimination weapon. I am going to attach a link to one of the rifles I'm considering in order to give some Idea of what I'm really wanting, so people can give suggestions for similar rifles. http://www.jetguns.com/sw-mp15or-556-16-30-p-789.html. any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated but try to keep it below $900.00 not including transfer fees
($30.00).

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XM855
January 10, 2012, 02:30 AM
I love my Rock River. If I had to choose another, I hear great things about BCM. They should both be within or just slightly above your budget.

FWIW, the M&P-15 is the only AR that I have personally seen trigger pins walk out of. It was a pretty new one too. No big deal, it's a cheap, easy fix, but worth knowing I think.

briansmithwins
January 10, 2012, 02:45 AM
I would go with BCM or CMMG as I've had good experiences with both companies before.

I also would skip the railed gas block thing. It's more $ and for what you're describing isn't needed.

If it were me, I'd start with the flat top receiver and put a Larue fixed rear sight on it. When I wanted a optic I'd add a Aimpoint PRO or Micro (on a Larue mount) and have a light, handy rifle that's perfectly capably out to 300 yards or so.

BSW

DNS
January 10, 2012, 03:20 AM
The Smiths AR's are well put together.

I bought the Sport for $200 less locally since I don't need the chrome lined barrel (mine's melonite, almost as long lasting) or dust cover (not ground crawling around in one of the 'stans).

Very light, seems to feed everything, plus it comes with a P-mag.
Great warranty too.

ugaarguy
January 10, 2012, 04:20 AM
From personal experience S&W does a great job on build quality on the M&P15 line. They're not quite a Colt, but they've proven to be able to handle hard use.

The OR you linked is not a bad buy, but remember that you'll need to add sights. The barrel is 1/9 twist, which will stabilize most 5.56 ammo, but not the heavier stuff.

I like the $600 or so Sport variant on the low end. Its Melonited 1/8 twist 5R rifled barrel would be an exceptional bbl. on any AR rifle. The 1/8 twist will stabilize just about any bullet that can be loaded to cartridge overall length to fit in an AR-15 magazine. It includes a MagPul MBUS rear sight, which is a good quality piece. It lacks a dust cover & forward assist, but these are not huge issues. The handguards lack heat shields, so I would spend the $25 or so to get a set of heat guards with heat shields.

Your $900 budget puts you just under some really good options for hard use rifles though.

$965 will get you a Colt 6920 from G&R (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6920) (once they're back in). That rifle is literally identical to a US Military M4 except for the 16" bbl, and semi-auto only fire control group (apparently they're shipping with a funky buttstock now, but that's purely cosmetic & has no effect on function). If you want a hard use rifle, that's the standard by which they're judged.

$968 will get you a S&W M&P15T from Bud's (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_763_977/products_id/71968/SWL+M%26P15T+811041+5.56+16+AS+BLK+30). The T is the only other M&P15 than the Sport that currently comes with the Melonite 1/8 5R bbl. It does have the dust cover & forward assist; along with front & rear MagPul MBUS sights, and a railed free float forend. It's not a Colt, but it's a darn good rifle with many great features.

madcratebuilder
January 10, 2012, 06:48 AM
I would recommend a 5.56 chamber vs the .223. Pick a style you like and about any brand well get the job done. The PSA rifles seem to be the best price for what you get.

viper7342
January 10, 2012, 02:06 PM
Thanks for the replies so far guys, it's going to be quite awhile before I can afford an AR of any type, at this point, I'm just doing my research, as I don't really know very much about them, other than how to fire one, however, I've run across another rifle that I might be interested in and will provide a link in this post and would as always value your experiences/opinions.

http://www.del-ton.com/DTI_16_Carbine_Rifle_p/rfth16-0.htm

What do you think? would this be a good quality rifle for a beginner considering the uses I noted in my OP?

Ranger30-06
January 10, 2012, 02:12 PM
I have a bunch of Del-Ton parts on my AR. They work excellent and the fit and finish was great!

ugaarguy
January 10, 2012, 02:44 PM
What do you think? would this be a good quality rifle for a beginner considering the uses I noted in my OP?
Short answer: It'll work fine for most uses, but you can get a better rifle for the same or less money. Long answer below.

The bore & chamber are neither Nitrided, nor hard chrome lined. Hard chroming & Nitriding (like Melonite) produce a slicker surface which is particularly helpful in the chamber for improved extraction. In the bore they resist corrosion, and reduce friction (less bbl heat). Both also have much higher surface hardness than untreated / unlined steel. All of those factors make a Nitrided or hard chromed bbl. much more durable. Then there's the 1/9 bbl. twist which I've touched on in my previous post. Del-Ton also uses the weaker & less desirable commercial spec buffer tube, as opposed to companies like Colt and S&W using the much stronger Mil Spec buffer tube.

If you're going to run it hard, I'd spend a little more money now for a rifle with better long term durability. It would be fine for range / plinking, but even for range & plinking use you'll get a much better barrel on the M&P15 Sport for less money. You'll have to evaluate how hard you intend to run the rifle.

snakeman
January 10, 2012, 02:55 PM
There are several brands that to me are of equal or similar quality for a fair price like the following: dpms, rock river, del-ton, stag arms, dsarms, etc. Out of those I would go with stag, dpms, or del-ton. Most people suggest a s&w sport but the thing lacks a dust cover. Where I live that thing would fail every 5 seconds its so dusty. Now the S&W with a dust cover is an excellent choice but you could pay less for the same quality.

ugaarguy
January 10, 2012, 03:30 PM
Now the S&W with a dust cover is an excellent choice but you could pay less for the same quality
You could, but Stag, DPMS, and Del-Ton aren't the brands that are going to give you the same quality as an S&W for any amount of money. First hand experience says Spikes would do that. PSA is getting great reviews, and has all the right specs on paper.
Most people suggest a s&w sport but the thing lacks a dust cover. Where I live that thing would fail every 5 seconds its so dusty.
You sure? You buy an AR built right, keep it lubed, and it'll run in some pretty nasty conditions - http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/06/benjamin-t-shotzberger/%EF%BB%BF-gun-review-smith-and-wesson-mp15-sport/. If you must have a dust cover Ned Christiansen has designed an empty chamber indicator, called the SafePort (http://www.m-guns.com/tools.php), that also seals the ejection port. It's a whole $15 at Brownell's (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=21481/Product/AR-15-M16-SAFE-PORT).

JustinJ
January 10, 2012, 03:36 PM
If $900 is the rifle budget before tax, shipping, etc. i'd say definitely save up another $50 and get a Colt.

On a side note a title that indicates what a post is about is preferred and will prevent people who can provide good info from passing it over.

AEA
January 10, 2012, 03:46 PM
Buy one chambered for 5.56 and you then can shoot either 5.56 or .223. If you buy one chambered for .223, you cannot safely shoot 5.56 in it.

snakeman
January 10, 2012, 03:50 PM
Actually ugaarguy, I am sure. I have had the things fail from collecting dust if the cover is left open. It's so dusty here everything fails eventually but the ar's tend to fail very very quickly when they get dirty (I am talking about actual dirt). However when lubed right and the dust cover kept closed the things run great for a while. We take great care of our guns out here and me especially. That's why they put dust covers in the design anyway. And just as a side note, my dpms upper shoots every bit as well as any and I mean any other ar I have ever seen. I'm talking .5" groups at 100 yards and it's 6.8. Granted, I have modified it a bit with a rra trigger group and free float handguards.

viper7342
January 10, 2012, 04:05 PM
What about the Bushmaster rifles, Reliability, Quality, Customer service etc? In particular, I'm Considering this model. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_787/products_id/13230/Bushmaster+223+PATROLMAN+30RD

viper7342
January 10, 2012, 04:17 PM
On a side note a title that indicates what a post is about is preferred and will prevent people who can provide good info from passing it over.

Point taken. The title has now been fixed, thanks for noticeing , although it was just an unfortunate oversight on my part.:what:

jmr40
January 10, 2012, 04:36 PM
I have heard good things about the S&W. I own Stag, Rock River and DPMS. All were bought between $600-$700 and have run perfectly for me. I have friends that have had good luck with Delton as well.

Buy one chambered for 5.56 and you then can shoot either 5.56 or .223. If you buy one chambered for .223, you cannot safely shoot 5.56 in it.

I've yet to see an AR that wasn't chambered in 5.56. Most are labeled as 5.56/223 and everyone except for a few guys on the internet use both rounds interchangebly. I've yet to find a single case where a 5.56 round caused a problem in a gun marked 223.

ugaarguy
January 10, 2012, 04:58 PM
And just as a side note, my dpms upper shoots every bit as well as any and I mean any other ar I have ever seen. I'm talking .5" groups at 100 yards and it's 6.8.
I have no doubt it's accurate. DPMS makes some darn accurate barrels, as does Olympic Arms. The problem is I've seen too many (in 5.56 anyway) with tight and or rough chambers, and overall poor assembly to recommend them for hard use. DPMS turns out a decent rifle a good bit of the time. They just turn out bad rifles quite frequently too. I'm glad you got a good one.
However when lubed right and the dust cover kept closed the things run great for a while. We take great care of our guns out here and me especially.
Awesome :D . Please don't take my previous post personally. I just wanted to provide a data point of a Sport showing that they can run well in really nasty, dusty conditions. I hope the SafePort links are useful to you as a chamber safety device that still seals the ejection port if you ever need to carry an AR that way.

What about the Bushmaster rifles, Reliability, Quality, Customer service etc? In particular, I'm Considering this model. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...PATROLMAN+30RD
I think you're better of buying the S&W M&P15 OR you already linked, and adding a good set of sights. Or better yet saving a little more money for the $960 Colt I already linked.

That Bushmaster is $900 for a rifle with commercial spec buffer tube ( per the manufacturer (http://www.bushmaster.com/faqs/?f=2442) ), that doesn't have an HPT/MPI bolt, may or may not have the carrier key properly staked, may have a tight chamber, and probably won't have the buffer tube castle nut staked at all. Then there's the fact that Bushmaster uses a rifle height front sight base (FSB) on their carbines, rather than the correct F height flat top carbine front sight base. That means you can buy Bushmaster's proprietary lower height detachable carry handle with the stock FSB, or you can buy a taller front sight pin from them to use standard AR flat top rear sights. I know you're trying to save money, but it may end up costing you more money in the long run.

I've never bought from this company, but they are showing the Spike's M4LE in stock for $790. Spike's offers a great rifle for the money, and they're built correctly as well. http://www.knrshootingsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=592

viper7342
January 10, 2012, 05:25 PM
ugaarguy,
Thanks for the help and the links, as I've said before, I know next to nothing about these rifles, but, that Spikes Tactical looks like it might be just the ticket. Now if I can just get some people that actually own them to give me some first hand info on them I might be good to go. As always all experiences / info / opinions are greatly appreciated so keep em coming.

snakeman
January 10, 2012, 05:30 PM
Oh I know it's nothing personal. I've had good luck with olympic too though lol. Usually my luck is not so good. Just so you know I have a s&w lower lol. I just live in really harsh conditions. The heat this year softened a bell and carlson stock to the point of twisting and warping in a gun rack! Talk about frustrating!

viper7342
January 11, 2012, 02:57 AM
And I think I'm going to go with the Spikes tactical, so far, it seems to be the best entry level M4 type rifle for the money, I don't have the money to order one right now, but I wanted to thank everyone for their help and opinions. Hopefully I'll be able to put the money back, before my birthday in April and have it at least ordered before then. I'll let you all know how it shoots when I finally get it and get some range time with it.:evil:

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