[twoblink]

I want to hear from those who've actually SHOOT .357Sig to let me know how they feel about the round.... I'm especially interested in those who have shot it a while, after the "honeymoon" stage, if they still like it as much.

Please please, no trolls...

[Airwolf]

I'll second the request for info.

I've got .22LR, 9mm, .40S&W and .45ACP in my handgun collection and considering a .357SIG to be the next one in the lineup.

[hondo68]

It's a good round, shoots flat, and penetrates well. Very reliable feeding due to the bottleneck design of the cartrage.

[PeacefulWarrior]

Put about 10,000 rounds of the stuff thru my Sig. It has a sharp recoil but nothing uncontrollable. The shape does help the bullet with feeding,the only malfunction I ever experienced was with a handloaded round that wasn't seated properly. I have to say that I have nothing agianst the round but if it was't issued I probably wouldn't buy a gun in that caliber. I'm a believer in big bullet=big hole,so I'd take a .45. Do I feel comfortable carrying the .357 SIG? Yes their is a lot worse out there to be packing

[treeprof]

I shoot it (both in practice and IDPA on occasion) and frequently carry it, and I have a number of pistols chambered for it. I've shot it for abt 3 yrs, and like it a lot. For me, it's proved very accurate and not bad to shoot. A little snappy, yes, but no worse than a .40 or hot 9's. The major drawback IMO is that it's too loud to shoot much indoors. Even w/plugs and muffs, it is obnoxious. Outdoors, a different matter. Ammo is locally pretty cheap (and very reliable) from Ga Arms, so I buy almost all of mine from them at shows; abt $80/500. The ability to add a .40 bbl and have a two-caliber gun is a nice bonus.

Would I get into 357 SIG seriously again? With continued good ammo availability, yes. If I had a .40 and could add a 357 SIG bbl and dbl my fun, yes. If I was perfectly happy w/the .45, 9 mm +P or some other round, but was looking for something magic as a replacement, no; there's not that much to be gained. If I liked variety in my caliber stable, yes; it's fun to shoot and as good as any other for self-defense.

[lunde]

I own nine pistols chambered (from the factory) for .357 Sig, and another half-dozen or so 10mm or .40 Auto pistols with .357 Sig conversion barrels. My favorite caliber is 10mm, followed closely by .357 Sig. The ballistics of .357 Sig are close to 10mm, but has an advantage in that it can fit into a smaller frame. My .357 Sig pistols, including those using conversion barrels, have proven to be reliable and accurate.

[KP95DAO]

Glock 32, only changes 3.5 lb connector and Wolff 24 lb spring and guide rod , 2 years, several thousand rounds (all handloads), proven very accurate, zero lead time on moving targets at 25 yds, very loud, you get used to the recoil, never a misfeed, wears out buffers fairly quickly, and it doubles (with a FAC 40 bbl) as my IDPA gun. It is a KEEPER!

[10-Ring]

I really like the round. The only real downside (to me) is the expense of the ammo. It's cheaper to shoot 45's

[Gusgus]

Between my brother and I, we have 3 pistols chambered for .357 SIG.

SIGPro
H&K USP Compact
Glock 32

We both love the round, and will be adding more autos chambered in it (SIG P229 & XD357). Cost of ammo has come way down, since the early $17 a box days. Some E-retailers now offer it in the .40 S&W price range.

10mm is still my all time favorite auto cartridge, but the .357SIG is a very close 2nd.

[375nm]

I picked up a SIGARMS P226 chambered in .357 SIG about a year and a half ago. I have put at least 12-1500 rounds of Georgia Arms 125gr FMJ as well as a couple hundred Gold Dots through it.

Very powerful, high-velocity cartridge with seemingly inherent accuracy. Does a number on steel gongs and anything else you cover with your muzzle and wish to destroy.

The flash, noise, and recoil associated with this cartridge are a bit exaggerated, IMHO. In a side-by-side, outdoor comparison a couple weekends ago, my P226 didn't seem as loud as my buddy's .357 Mag Taurus Tracker. And I personally think my HK USP40c has harsher recoil than my .357 Sig P226--But that may have as much to do with the platform as it does with the caliber.

It is not a chambering for the skittish, flinchy, or easily startled, but it isn't .50AE, either. ;)

Short answer: No regrets.

[MK11]

Everyone else has pretty much summed it up.

Pros: Accurate, reliable, lotta power in a compact frame, very controllable for the power being generated, makes a nice compliment for a .40 cal gun

Cons: Expensive (but not much more so than .357 mag), could give the gun quite a beating over time (but then that's never stopped the 10mm crowd)

If you got the cash and have a steady source of ammo, go for it.

[Peter M. Eick]

The post above summarizes my position. I have a 229 sport with around 3000 rnds down it. It is reliable accurate and very fun to shoot. Enough power on tap to be interesting, but not enough to be really fun. Reloading it is a breeze so I shoot it routinely.

It was a good investment and I am happy I bought it.

[Skunkabilly]

Is this side-by-side with your .40 or are you going to put another barrel in your Steyr?

[mr. e]

I shoot both 357 SIG and .40 Auto from my Sig P229. Of the two rounds, I prefer the 357 SIG for accuracy and recoil, although neither is difficult to control. I use a Sprinco recoil reducer for both rounds.

I compared the 357 SIG to 9mm by shooting bowling pins. The 9mm nicked the plastic on the wood and bounced somewhere. The 357 SIG made small holes in the front and big bumps on the back side of the pin. This, I think, is impressive penetration.

I handload, and I'm now trying to reduce the flamethrower effect that I get with many commercially available 357 SIG loads. They're fun in low light, but not tactically smart. Going to faster burning powders, such as Bullseye, helps reduce the muzzle flash.

In addition, the most accurate commercial load I've ever shot is the Speer 125 gr. 357 SIG HP. From a 15 meter sandbagged rest, I get repeatable 1 - 1 1/2 " groups. I'm very pleased with that kind of accuracy for an out of the box pistol and out of the box ammo.

[CWL]

I don't shoot .40 S&W anymore. If that means anything to you.

Sold off one of my .40's -and selling guns isn't something I do lightly.

Rebarrelled my Sig P229 for .357Sig and love it. Much more controllable and accurate for me with this caliber.

[petej88]

It's a pretty good round.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I've had a P229 for just over a year; my daily CCW item. Love it. recoil is not noticeably more than my BHP, but with UMC ball the flash indoors is awe-inspiring. It's also so flat shooting it's a religious experience...kind of like my .30 carbine Blackhawk. Controllable, yes. Fun, yes. Powerful, absolutely.

I like the little .357 bumblebees on meth.

Regards,
Rabbit.

[tetchaje1]

I agree that the terrors of the 357SIG are way over-exaggerated -- like the 10mm.

357SIG's bark is far worse than its bite (on your end, that is... ;) ). It is loud, but a gentleman on another forum who actually used 357SIG in a SD shooting said he didn't notice the blast when he pulled the trigger and that it sounded as though the gunshot was off in the distance. (Bad guy bought the farm...
:cool: )

Penetration is excellent with this round, as well as its ability to defeat barriers like autoglass and sheet metal.

No, it isn't a deathray, though...

...that is reserved for the 10mm... :cool: ;) :p

[twoblink]

Pete, you biased boy, you've got a webpage dedicated to the round!!

Which do you like better, your M40 or M357?

I am thinking of (For logistical reasons) of having buying a new barrel for my Steyr M40, and shooting 357Sigs... Why? That way, I can shoot 124grain jhp's as my defensive round, in both my Semi's AND my revolvers; and expect the same performance. (Sick isn't it??) Also, hoping Steyr will come back and bring out the S series... So I can have the same magazines for my M as for an S... Otherwise, I'd go Kahr for my CCW, and then I hope Kahr comes out with a .357Sig version, or else Barsto will make a barrel...

[dan_s]

I have been shooting this round now for a couple of years and several thousands rounds. Like it so much that my .40 barrel is gathering dust. Very accurate, and a joy to reload.. Ammo selection is miuch better now than when I first bought it. If you get one, you will be very glad you did..

[Ninj500]

I've had a Glock 33 for about a month and love it. True, I might still be in the honeymoon phase but everytime I shoot it it gets a little better! :D

[EOD Guy in VA]

I have 3 chambered in .357SIG

SIG P229
SIG P239
Sprinfield XD-357

The more I shoot it/them, the more I love it.
Virtually jam free
Great fun to shoot
Recoil is very manageable & muzzle flash is not a significant distraction.
Great power for defense with good mag capacity.
Fun ... Fun ... Fun ...

PS: I have .40S&W barrels for both the SIGs, but they just gather dust. The fun is worth the extra cost.

[Lennyjoe]

Hmm, now you got me interested twoblink;)

[12-34hom]

I have a H&K compact in 357sig and carry it CCW.

Noise levels don't bother me, in fact it's one of the qualities i like about this round.

Recoil is stout - but nothing over the top.

I would rate it - 8.5 overall on a scale of 10.

12-34hom.

[cratz2]

I've shot three different 357 SIGs, a SIG 229, a Glock 33 and an heavy barreled Encore which doesn't really apply to this conversation. The 33 is the smallest sized Glock in 357. It was very snappy but completely controllable. It has a pretty loud blast and a bit of flip to it. All shots were on the target though not as uniform as I usually keep my 45 ACP shots.

The SIG was just fine. More of a flip up than my 2340 though those two are getting to the apples and oranges category. I would feel in control with any of the guns mentioned though the Glock 33 would not be my first choice for an extended gun battle.

Through I am a big bore guy (Go 45 ACP!) I consider the 357 SIG a viable option for carry. I would probably carry a 357 SIG before I'd carry a 40 S&W.

I must say, that the shooting the 33 at night is almost as much fun as watching fireworks. There is a big flame. BIG!

[WonderNine]

The .357 SIG...... a 9mm +P+ with less capacity :D

[SouthpawShootr]

I have 2 in .357. A Glock 32C and a Sigma in .357. Recoil is not an issue (Think of it as a .40 recoil impulses only a bit sharper). Muzzle blast is. Of course, it is LOUD. If you're new to shooting, the excess noise and blast will induce a nasty flinch. I will be getting a regular G32 barrel for my Glock at the next opportunity - I don't like the ports.

[SouthpawShootr]

Forgot to add: if you reload, don't get creative. Closely follow loading data and resis the temptation to load a +p version. This cartridge is already at the edge in factory loading, screw around with it and you will blow the gun up.

[Zak Smith]

I bought a Glock 32 a couple years ago. This is the mid-size Glock - same size as the #19 - in 357SIG.

My subjective experience is that it is harder to shoot accurately than .40SW. For me, this may be recoil impulse or blast; I'm not sure.

I switched to a factory Glock .40SW barrel in the #32 and haven't looked back.

-z

[Snaps]

I've got the Glock 31, which I'm not very fond of. Of course I bought it from a friend and am not a big Glock fan. The recoil doesn't seem to high, easy to shoot, but I'd probably go with the .40 if I was buying new.

[HIPOWER]

Shot a Glock 31 for a while. It was fine, but a bit too loud and snappy for my taste. I sold it, assured that a 9mm +P+ would do the same job out of my 9mm Glock.

[mr. e]

HP,

I don't want to start a flame war about the relative merits of the 9mm vs. the 357 SIG, but I have to ask about the assertion that a 9mm +P+ approximates the 357 SIG muzzle velocity.

I'm a hand loader and I've chrono'd several loads for both cartridges. The hottest 9mm loads I've created top out at about 1325 fps and show many of the overpressure signs we've all heard about: flattened primers, primers backing out of the pocket, and flow-back around the firing pin. My 357 SIG loads start at 1250 fps for light loads, and I quit trying to make them faster after I safely reached 1475 fps. The Alliant manual says I could load another .2 gr. of Power Pistol, so I think it would top out at close to 1500 fps.

Do you really think that a hot 9mm is as powerful as the SIG 357? Also, can you or anyone else tell me what kind of powder to use to get that kind of performance? I was using AA#8 when the 9mm topped out.

I think it's a mistake to feed your 9mm a regular diet of +P+ loads, but the 357 SIG was designed to handle those pressures. As always YMMV.

e

[KP95DAO]

"I was using AA#8 when the 9mm topped out."

Alright!!! A new powder to play with. Of course I have been using AA-8 myself for some years now; but, I have had to make it myself. Now it is available off the shelf?

I can also tell you how to get 1350 fps out of a 4" bbl 9mm with no problems if you want me to.

[mr. e]

Oops! Off by one key. That's AA#7 w/8.8 grains under a 124 gr. bullet.

[Sean Smith]

I had a Glock 35 that I converted to .357 Sig and shot a while.

Recoil? Seemed about the same as .40 S&W. Snappy, but no big deal. It was pretty loud, but nothing too nutty, either. Accuracy was FABULOUS, but it was from a 6" KKM barrel, not stock. The barrel was so tightly fitted that it wouldn't always go into battery, but that wasn't the cartridge's fault, so I can't speak to its "inherent reliability" one way or the other.

It can't match 10mm power by a long shot, and it isn't very versatile... ballistic performance falls like a rock once you go beyond 125gr bullets. Factory 10mm loads beat it easily, and handloads just bury it alive. But you can put it in a smaller, handier platform since it has about the same OAL as 9x19mm.

[kidcoltoutlaw]

in 357 SIG and love them all thinking about another.killed a few groundhogs with them .it kills like a rifle or a big handgun.if i want big and slow i can shoot the 180 grains at 1134 i will get more fps when it warms up i think.if im lazy i will load 40 so i dont have to lube the cases.

[355sigfan]

I still like it but its harder to like it after the advent of +p+ 127 grain Ranger Talon ammo for the 9mm which costs less and is only 100 fps slower. As for feed reliability. Its a pure myth that the bottle neck shape helps it feed better. I had a Browning in 40sw converted by Cylinder and SLide to 357 sig. It had constant problems with nose dives even after several trips to the shop. My Glock 33 gave me problems shortly after the mag springs began to wear. No ladies and gentlemen the 357 sig is not a wonder cartridge that will cure your feeding woes. It is a good flat shooting high energy defensive pistol round. I prefer it to the 40sw. But I prefer the 45 acp to both. Right now I am not sure if I prefer the 9mm to the 357 sig. I do prefer the 9mm to the 40sw becaue of the accuracy factor.
Pat

[Sean Smith]

The ballistics of .357 Sig are close to 10mm

Not true. When y'all can find 700+ ft-lb factory loads in .357 Sig, y'all let me know. ;)

Nominal .357 Sig ballistics are 125gr @ 1,350. 10mm can throw a 180gr bullet at that velocity.

I had one for a while. Pretty neat cartridge, recoil seemed the same as .40 S&W to me, but not really worth the trouble looking back on it for the small gain in power over full-powered .40 S&W.

[kidcoltoutlaw]

is there a 10mm factory load that will give you 700 plus foot pounds.my 357 SIG P229 sport will give 1509 with a 124 for 627 foot pounds.if i can hit 1600 with a 5 inch i will have it but not in a factory load.the orginal 10mm loads were very good but i thought the new factory stuff was a bit weak.i don't want to start a caliber war because i have been thinking about a 10mm myself.plus i can't win .how are the EAA WITNESS full size,thanks,keith

[Heraclitus]

Great thread. I see a .357 SIG conversion barrel in my future. What my P229 wants, my P229 gets.

[tetchaje1]

kidcoltoutlaw,
Old thread, but have a look at the link below for full-house 10mm loads. All shots are from a Glock 20.

www.doubletapammo.com

135gr Nosler HP @ 1600fps (767 ft-lb)
155gr GD JHP @ 1475fps (750 ft-lb)
165gr GD JHP @ 1400fps (718 ft-lb)
180gr GD JHP @ 1300fps (676 ft-lb)
165gr GS JHP @ 1425fps (744 ft-lb)
180gr Gs JHP @ 1330fps (707 ft-lb)

[cratz2]

Guys... guys... no need to argue over the sizes of your.... loads... :p

Just me, I see it like this: 9mm, 40 and 45ACP are the mainstream cartridges. These three cover the 'small and fast', 'big and slow' and 'medium and pretty fast' pretty well. I personally feel that any of them with service length barrels loaded with Rangers or Georgia Arms (close to full velocity) Gold Dots are going to leave pretty nasty wounds and will likely be found in a dead guy with proper shot placement.

Then you can step up to the less common but very viable options of the 357 SIG and the 10mm... Time frame issues aside, these are basically for folks that think that .35 and .40 caliber bullets are the way to go but aren't satisfied with the velocities commonly available in 9mm and 40. In my humble opinion, for self defense and for most police work, both are slight overkill, but this country is founded on the concept of overkill. And on the concept of being able to do whatever the hell you want to do as long as it's legal. ;)

I don't own a 357 SIG or a 10mm, but to me, the 10mm makes more sense if you are wanting to walk just outside the mainstream mostly because of increased versatility. Much heavier bullets are availabe for the 10mm both for factory ammo shooters and for handloaders. Regardless of what mathamatical energy levels a particular load comes out to, many folks swear by the concept of a bigger bullet. And in all honesty, they make more sense. A bigger bullet has a greater chance of hitting something internally that kill cause death. The thing I don't get about bottleneck cartridges is it is by definition limiting yourself to capacity. Hunting doesn't count, but on the street, if I have two guns the same size and two cases the same size, I want the bigger bullet.

To me, the 10mm just seems a lot more versatile. Handloaders aside - and I understand that is a big statement but face it, most of us including police, don't carry handloaded ammunition there are small differences. Comparing Ranger in 9mm vs 357 SIG gains you 200 fps but it is marginally more difficult to shoot quickly. Georgia Arms 10mm 155 Gr is 175 fps over their '+P' 155 Gr 40S&W. And I imagine it will be marginally more difficult to shoot quickly. And of course, the idea of a +P 40S&W scares some people half to death. :p

But when you look at handloading, the 10mm makes a lot more sense to me at least. The huge range of bullets alone is enough to show the possible versatility over the 357 SIG.

Ahhhh... What do I know... I don't own either one. :rolleyes:

[kidcoltoutlaw]

if you want power from your p229 get the bar sto 5 inch if you get the semi drop in it might not drop in but you can have it fitted by bar sto in about 3 days.the 5 inch was in stock a few days ago.don't know if it still is or not so was the 40 .i was trying for a 5.5 but got tired of waiting and went with the 5 inch.i can't say for sure on the 3 days im sending mine to EGW to have it fitted.the 3.9 inch gave me 1419 with a bunch of power pistol.it did not appear to be high pressure but the blast was like is my hand still there lol.i have been thinking about a 10mm since coonan went under.sometimes i think i will sell it or just shoot it till it won't shoot anymore.it would send a 125 at 1775 smoking,thanks,keith

[kidcoltoutlaw]

good point is in ccw in a p239 at a gun length of 6.6 you can push a 124 at 1394 with a 3.6 inch barrel.with a versa max 2 by milt sparks you hardly even know it's there.works almost as good with the p229 as well.i don't mean the p229 and p239 will fit the same holster.just that the versa max 2 is a great rig,thanks,keith

[WonderNine]

I have to ask if it's really necessary to have the bottleneck case (and therefore less rounds per mag). Seems some of the hot subgun 9mm (like Hirtinberger surplus and Danish surplus) is on par with .357SIG.

Guns shooting hot 9mm can be easily resprung to .357SIG standards.

I think their could be a market for the "9mm Magnum" if it had been marketed correctly.

[355sigfan]

There is not much a 10mm will do that a 45 acp with +p loads can't. The 10mm is slowly dying.
Pat

[Hawk]

Late to the party...

I just picked up a P239 in .357 Sig yesterday - just got back from the range after putting 50 rounds downrange and stumbled across this thread.

Surprise #1: I usually suffer with smallish grips - the recoil was, well, actually rather gentle. Not much muzzle rise. It got back on target quickly. The recoil was quite a surprise to me as a Kahr P40 will beat me like a rented mule - I've never managed 50 rounds at a sitting. Granted, the Sig is larger and heavier, but I was expecting far worse.

Surprise #2: Muzzle flash! Great googlymoogly - made my CZ52 look positively sedate - kept checking to see if I'd loaded "DragonBreath" rounds in error. I swear there was more flash than from my ported .44 mag.

Maybe if 1/2 the powder is burning externally, that'd explain the (relatively) mild recoil. There isn't anything about UMC ammo not suitable for that stubby P239 barrel is there?

There's also the possibility that the muzzle flash surprised me enough I never had a chance to notice the recoil. The noise was certainly sufficient.

Anyhow, I liked it - a lot. Ran like the proverbial Swiss watch.

[tetchaje1]

There is not much a 10mm will do that a 45 acp with +p loads can't. The 10mm is slowly dying.

Hardee-har-har... :D

I can't believe how many people try that line only to be trounced by the 10mm fanatics on this forum. :neener:

For what it's worth, 355SIGFan, even Texas-Ammo's 45 Super Express can't match 10mm ballistics... :uhoh:

[Sean Smith]

There is not much a 10mm will do that a 45 acp with +p loads can't.

That's only a convincing statement if you don't bother to look up the ballistics. ;)

Obvious examples:

200gr .45 ACP +P: 1,055 ft/sec @ muzzle (5" barrel)
200gr 10mm Auto: 1,270 ft/sec @ muzzle (4.6" barrel)

230gr .45 ACP +P: 950 ft/sec @ muzzle (5" barrel)
220gr 10mm Auto: 1,125 ft/sec @ muzzle (4.6" barrel)

Of course, the comparisons aren't fair... to the 10mm... because a 200gr 10mm bullet has much higher sectional density than a 200gr .45 ACP bullet. The more appropriate comparison would be to compare the 200gr .45 ACP +P to the 165gr 10mm @ 1,425 ft/sec or the 230gr .45 ACP +P to the 180gr 10mm @ 1,330 ft/sec.

Put another way, to get the sectional density of a 200gr 10mm bullet you'd need about a 255gr .45 bullet. To get the sectional density of a 220gr 10mm bullet you'd need about a 280gr .45 bullet.

Before Cor-Bon revamped their site, their ballistic tables showed that their 180gr 10mm hunting load (from a 4.6" Glock barrel) had more energy at 100 yards than a 230gr .45 ACP +P had at the MUZZLE.

So no, .45 ACP +P ain't even in the same building as the top-end 10mm ballistics. Nice try for an old myth, though. :D

[bluethunder]

Im own 2 USPc's one in .40 and one in .357Sig. The recoil is slightly sharper than the .40,but the report and flash are quite a bit more. But I use it as my carry gun,almost exclusively.I agree witht the comments about Georgia Arms reloads,they certainly take out some of the expense of shooting the .357Sig round. And as a bonus, I can use the same holster and mags for both guns.I'm even considering getting a after-market barell in .357Sig for my Full-Size USP .40

[caz223]

As for the 10mm dying, whatever.
Next subject.
If you reload jacketed/plated practice rounds, the 357SIG is cheaper to reload than .40 because of the cheaper 9mm components. (Once you have the cases.) (Loading hints, use winchester cases for best results.)
If you already have a gun chambered in .40, you owe it to yourself to buy the conversion barrel for your gun, try it out on the cheap (So to speak.).
To echo what an earlier poster said, don't try to hotrod the sig round, it's already pretty hot to begin with.
For me, the book max loads are almost unshootable in my gun, the slide was hammering pretty bad.
Anyway, I bought a 357SIG sigpro in 2001, and a conversion barrel to shoot .40 last year.
I like the 357SIG waaaayyyy more than .40, the 357SIG has more authority than .40, and better accuracy to boot.
Last year, I also bought a SIG 229 in .40 (Thought I'd give .40 a fourth or fifth chance!), sold the gun a few months later, failure to meet expectations.

Summary, happily shooting 357SIG for almost 3 years now, couldn't be happier, the .40 S&W is not for me.

[355sigfan]

That's only a convincing statement if you don't bother to look up the ballistics.
END QUOTE

Well yes if you look at the numbers from a few hand loaders with a business license then it’s way off. But compare mainstream ammo like Winchesters Silver tip in 10mm at 1180 in my GLock 20 to Remingtons +p 185 grain Golden Sabers at 1185 in my Glock 21. The numbers tell a different story. There are some things the 10mm can do that the 45 can't. The 10mm makes a slightly better woods gun. But if you’re going into the woods where a 45 ACP is not enough (bear country) the 10mm is not going to be much better. At that point you should be packing a 44 mag at least as a back up to a good rifle or shotgun with slugs.

Pat

[Sean Smith]

Well yes if you look at the numbers from a few hand loaders with a business license then it’s way off.

You mean like Cor-Bon? :rolleyes:

In any case, .45 ACP +P isn't physically capable of the ballistics 10mm is capable of. You cherrypicking a weak 10mm load notwithstanding.

[355sigfan]

You cherrypicking a weak 10mm load notwithstanding.
END QUOTE

Actually its one of the hotter loads from the big 3. Most are downloaded to 40sw levels. I don't consider companies like double tap a viable option. I don't mind using my own reloads. But I have made it a rule not to shoot other peoples reloads.
Pat

[Sean Smith]

But I have made it a rule not to shoot other peoples reloads.

You seem to really have a hard-on for bad mouthing other forum members' businesses. Which especially interesting since your firsthand knowledge of their business is... nil. :scrutiny:

[WonderNine]

I don't consider companies like double tap a viable option.

Why not? :confused:

[355sigfan]

You seem to really have a hard-on for bad mouthing other forum members' businesses. Which especially interesting since your firsthand knowledge of their business is... nil.
END QUOTE

Not bad mouth just a matter of the truth hurting. Double tap is a small ammunition company. Its not even available in my state. For me its a non player. How can I take a company seriously that I can't even locate their products for testing any any gun shop. Then there is the little things that Double tap can't offer like flash resistant powders, sealed primers. I simply trust my life to the established companies and don't trust little mom and pop ammo companies.
Pat

[Rich357]

Well, I'm surprised I didn't notice this thread earlier. :)

I find the .357SIG an interesting, reliable, accurate, fun to shoot cartridge. I have several pistols (Glocks and SIGs) in .357SIG. I like the idea of a hot little bottle neck round. I haven't had any falures to feed or eject with the .357SIG. It is great we have option of shooting the .357SIG.

Rich

[Sean Smith]

Then there is the little things that Double tap can't offer like flash resistant powders, sealed primers.

Um, incorrect. More misinformation on your part.

Quoting MCNETT:

I am using a VERY low flash powder in ALL loads.

At this point in time, the customer has the option of whether the primers are sealed or not.

Funny thing was, you should already have known that. Rather selective memory you've got there... so much for "Not bad mouth just a matter of the truth hurting." Unless, of course, you are going to come out and accuse him of lying.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58433&perpage=25&highlight=10mm&pagenumber=5

[355sigfan]

Frankly Sean he did not offer sealing the primers until I asked him about it on the board. Frankly I doubt he was before I brought it up. I also doubt he has sealed any primers since then. So unless your can special order from him your not going to get sealed primers.

How does he have access to very low flash powders pray tell. He can only buy powders that are sold to everyone. Unless I am missing something here and he is making his own powders. The big boys don't release their low flash powders to small ammo companies. So frankly I would have to see his loads fired at night to believe they were low flash. Am I calling him a liar. No he is just placing his products in the best possible light. Its called advertising. Its close to lying, but not quite. I am sure his low flash loads have less flash then other companies plinking ammo. However I doubt they are as good as Remingtons, Winchesters, CCI or Federals.

So when you said I was spreading misinformation. Were you calling me a liar. That seems to be your tone.

I am not sure where your attitude is comming from. Frankly we disagree on the virtues of the 10mm and on small ammo companies. No need to get personal. Another words take it easy.

Pat

[Waste of Money]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[WonderNine]

However I doubt they are as good as Remingtons

And we all know Remingtons don't flash......

;)

[WheelMan]

355sigfan,

1. Did Mike McNett blow your dog in half with one of his deuterium fueled 10mms, you've expressed a pattern of behavior toward him and the 10mm in general in this thread and others that approaches rabid paranoia.

2. Does some money fall out of your pocket every time a 10mm round is sold? That would explain your posts, I don't see what else could.

3. My understanding is that doubletap, dirty untouchable second-class people that they are :rolleyes: does in fact use a powder supplied specially to them as a commercial ammunition outfit.

4. Can't buy it in a store eh? That's super, you can't buy a Dell in a store either. Nor can you find a Panoz on a car lot. I've never seen a new Valtro in a gun case either. All of them are total crap of course as you mentioned.

There's an apparent hypocrisy to my post here. I might think it's absolutely ridiculous for a grown man to sit down at his computer and type pointless (as near as I can figure) negativities about a handgun cartridge and an ammo company at every opportunity he gets. That said it would be even more ridiculous for me to become upset about this ridiculous behavior and sit down at my computer and try and rebuke you for it. So it's all in good fun and most certainly not personal. I post for three reasons:

1. I think this is a funny post, maybe somebody will chuckle
2. I enjoy a good debate over the old electric box
3. I would like to know what really did set you off on the 10mm issue and if finding the other half of your dog and giving it a proper burial will finally put the matter to rest :)

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Ok, I'm not going to feed into anyone's flamefest.

I've had a P229 in 357sig for about 2 1/2 years; it's my daily carry CHL. I've put about 2000 rounds downrange with it. I'm extremely comfortable and content with the caliber as well as the package.

I'd certainly look at another pistol in the caliber if I were to buy another. I'm very interested in converting a BHP .40 to it. I think the smaller SIGs would be a better choice for concealment, though.

Regards,
Rabbit.

[355sigfan]

We are all here to express ideas and nothing should be taken personally. I have nothing against double tap personally. However I have had some bad experience buy ammo from simular sized firms like Triton and Corbon. I am a bit leary of small ammo companies. Black Hills is a good exception. As far as the 10mm goes I speak from the experience of owning and selling a Glock 20 and still owning a Smith 610. I know what the round will and will not do. Its an acceptable round that does many things well. The problem is it does not do most of those things better than other more established rounds. And in some ways its not a good round. Its less feed reliable and when used as a defensive pistol with full power loads it generates quite a bit of recoil. But if someone prefers this round their welcome too it. But sales figures seem to support my theory that its slowly dying. Its not a wonder death ray round.

I can mail order a dell computer. I can't mail order ammunition up here. Nor would I order new un proven ammo from a new company. Let them do some growing and maybe I will give them a chance.
Pat

[WheelMan]

Fair enough, that satisfies my curiousity.

[Sean Smith]

Frankly Sean he did not offer sealing the primers until I asked him about it on the board. Frankly I doubt he was before I brought it up. I also doubt he has sealed any primers since then. So unless your can special order from him your not going to get sealed primers.

The first time YOU heard about him sealing primers was on this forum. That is not the same thing as the first time he HAS done it. But logic was never one of your strong points. The odds that YOU, of all people, are single-handedly responsible for changing his business are vanishingly small, given your determination to spread misinformation about his business.

How does he have access to very low flash powders pray tell. He can only buy powders that are sold to everyone.

Actually, according to him he uses a proprietary powder. Again, if you want to call him a liar, go for it. Otherwise, you are wrong yet again.

So when you said I was spreading misinformation. Were you calling me a liar. That seems to be your tone.

I was stating the obvious, and provided the evidence to back it up. You are basically in the position of either calling MCNETT a liar, or admitting you are full of crap, since he has contradicted everything you have claimed so far.

[Grayrider]

Does anyone make .357 Sig conversion barrels for the CZ-75? An SA in that caliber might be interesting. I checked Bar-sto, but they don't list them.

GR

[WheelMan]

Do Tanglifo barrels interchange with CZ? If so you can get them here (http://www.efkfiredragon.com/)

[Stephen A. Camp]

This thread needs to get back onto the .357 SIG feedback topic. If anyone has a problem with another poster, take it to Emails or PM's, but mainly off of this thread.

[BLKLABMAN]

I really like the .357sig round. Right now I have a G31, and Sig226 chambered in the round.
It is fun to shoot, and I trust it for self defense. Ammo can be found anywhere on the local level. Cost's less than .45ACP if you believe that.
Maybe because of where the TNHP went to .357sig.
Or I can get 1,000 rounds for GA-Arms for $160.
I shoot IDPA/IPSC with the G31 and could not be happier.

10mm?
NONE-- of the gunshops around here carry pistols in this caliber, or ammo in it. Everything is Special Order/Mail order. For me atleast that rules it out as a viable option.

[Climb14er]

I've been shooting the 357 Sig in a P239 for the past nine months. My perception has been very positive especially with the accuracy and reliability of the round. Isn 't this what most, if not all of us are after? The old reliability and accuracy dilemma! At least in my Sig, both are accomplished.

One downside, and this has been talked about in a number of threads is the cost of the ammo as compared to 9mm. If you reload, this is a non-issue. If you buy from Georgia Arms, their reloads, the cost is a still more than 9mm but less than .45ACP Even when I purchase high quality factory from my dealer, the cost is still around twice what I can pay for Wally World White Box FMJ. If you shoot a lot, this comes out to a lot more money for the 357 Sig than 9mm. It's just a matter of fact and economics.

Moving away from the higher cost of ammo, I find the 357 Sig to be a blast to shoot. I've also found it to be not the monster round that some make it out to be. With the last batch of Speer Lawman FMJ 125gr, the flash was no more than 9mm and the loudness was not that noticeable compared to the 9mm.

I recognize that others may differ but my experience with the 357 Sig is that the caliber is accurate, reliable, a flat shooter, very reasonable for a 'magnum' type of round and very easy on the pistol and my shooting hand.

[Grayrider]

Hmm.....357 sig barrels for CZ clones. Raises a couple more possibilities, although a 75 SA would hold more appeal to me. I may give those fellows a call Wheelman. Thanks for the info!

GR

[cratz2]

Ok, I'm not going to feed into anyone's flamefest.
That's a pretty funny choice of words considering the topic seems to be the 357 SIG and the hotter 10mm loads. :D

I honestly don't understand why folks get so bent out of shape over these things... They're all just choices. Some make more sense to some folks that others... The funny thing is, as I said in my last post, you'd expect 10mm and 357 SIG guys to get along as they are both slightly over the top of what is absolutely needed to regularly end a gunfight! :rolleyes:

[George Hill]

That would be a RIFLE, cratz2... a Rifle. Anything less is just that, less.
Handguns are personal defensive weapons. If you are going into a gunfight you should go with a rifle or shotgun.

[Obiwan]

Play nice kids!

Ok..on topic

I had several pistols in .357sig

Sig 239
G32
G35(bar-sto barrel)

They were all very accurate and reliable.

As to the bottleneck round being less prone to feed problems...hard to say, since all my Glocks feed flawlessly...how do you compare:confused:

But.........................

I consolidated calibers...no longer want to buy every type of ammo in the world....and I didn't feel the .357 sig gave anough of an advantage to keep it AND 9mm.

It is VERY close to the specs of the better 9mm

And the G-19 has a much longer service life than the G32

So...while I appreciated the round....I decided I didn't need it.

[kidcoltoutlaw]

and my p35 chronograph does not lie with a 4.4 barrel out of a SIG p229 sport i get 1509 WITH A 124 OR 125 .and yes a 10mm will make it look weak maybe even the 135 load at 1500 in the 40 short and weak but i still love it .unless im lazy then i load 40 s&w.have not had my 5 inch barsto fitted yet EGW all the way they ROCK,thanks,keith

[arinvolvo]

I have the 40 and 357 barrels for my sig239.

The 357 has more muzzle flash, and is a little flippier...But not uncontrollable, and not horribly different than 40 cal on that platform.

[355sigfan]

As to the bottleneck round being less prone to feed problems...hard to say, since all my Glocks feed flawlessly...how do you compare
END QUOTE

Thats a testimate to the reliability of the GLock design not the cartridge. I know glocks in 9mm, 45 acp and 40 sw that are also very reliable. When I had a Browning coverted to 357 sig by Cylinder and slide it became a jamamatic. When I had a Sig 220 converted to 400 corbon it became a jamamatic. Only on the feeding side. The rounds would nose dive on the feed ramp. My Glock 33 would nose dive its rounds when I was firing weak handed. Bottle neck rounds in pistol mags are more likely to nose dive. Thats the reason some glocks in 357 sig have problems with non drop free 40sw mags. Anyway I agree with you. I like the round still own a Glock 31. But I am seeing the 9mm more and more as a better option with +p+ 127 Grain Ranger T loads.
Pat

[M58]

I tend to agree with Pat on the .357Sig/9mm issue. I was very impressed with the .357 sig around 1998. Since then the 9mm has been improved.
The .357 Sig has not. I am not sure if this is because the .357 Sig was issued at its full capability or not. I cannot address the feed issue as I have not had problems with either caliber.

I find that I am using the 9mm Sigs 228 and 239 more lately.

[GTKrockeTT]

i've got a P239 with both the .40SW and .357SIG barrels. while i do like the .40SW, i find myself always buying .357 ammo, and logs more range time by far.

as far as the honeymoon stage, i don't think it's passed yet, i really enjoy this round. felt recoil, IMO, is easier to control than the .40.

[jval]

I have a 357 drop-in barrle for my Glock 40 cal. I swap off now and then. The 357 Sig has a real kick compared to the 40 cal. Vel and energy is significantely higher that the 40 cal.

[355sigfan]

The 357 Sig has a real kick compared to the 40 cal. Vel and energy is significantely higher that the 40 cal.
END QUOTE

Thats not quite right. If your comparing the 180 grain 40 loads to the 125 grian 357 sig loads you are right. But if you compare simular weights like the 135 grain 40sw at 1300 fps to the 357sigs 1350 with a 125 grain slug its a wash. If you compare 150 grain 357 sig loads at 1200 to 155 grain 40sw at 1200 its about the same agian. The main advantage of the 357 sig in my opinion over the 40sw is the accuracy advantage.
Pat

[jval]

I agree when you talk specific loads....thanks

[jval]

Pat, since you are Glock armorer, what's your opinion on shooting 155 gr reloads (my own reloads--at the low end with 7.2 grs of Unique Pwdr) from the unsupported Glock 22 chamber? I recently started reloading and have not had any problems in over 300 rounds, but was cautioned by a couple of friends. My reasoning is that my reloads are likely to be more consistant loads that what I can buy at some gun show.

thanks...jack

[walking arsenal]

not much i can say that everyone else hasnt. sig good, ammo spendy.

W.A.

[355sigfan]

Reloading for Glock 40's is a bit scary. I have had some bad experiences. But I now use reduced data from a few reloading manuals that keep the pressures around 25000 cup. Just enough to cycle the action. If you spend about $150 on a KKM barrel then you could load till your hearts content.
Pat

[arinvolvo]

Sigfan, have you actually KB'd a glock? Or are you just full of hot air?

[355sigfan]

Sigfan, have you actually KB'd a glock? Or are you just full of hot air?

END QUOTE

First off watch your attitude. I believe we are all supposed to abide by a few rules including no personal insults. And yes I have the unfortunate experience of having a few GLocks KB on me. One was a 22 with AA #5 powder and a load 2 tenths of a grain below the max. The second time was when I mistakenly used magnum primers instead of standard primers. My fault on the second one. In both cases the mags were ruined and the extractor was blown off the gun. The frames did ok. I had a Sig 229 in 40sw KB on me with someone elses reloads. Most of this happened when the 40 first came out. I don't own a 40sw auto pistol any more. Seen too many blow and have heard of plenty more blowing for other people.

When I was at my Glock armorers course. I asked the instructor if Glock was going to ever provide more case support for the 40sw guns to keep them from blowing up so much. He was not happy and said I was full of it. BUt then 3 other officer in the class shared a recent experience with 4 guns KBing in that area the previous weak with Federal ammo.
Pat

[clubsoda22]

BUt then 3 other officer in the class shared a recent experience with 4 guns KBing in that area the previous weak with Federal ammo.

Isn't the older federal .40 known to have problems when it comes to guns KBing?

[George Hill]

That's enough of this one.
Lights out.

I'm not going to have any more of this... you know who I'm talking about. Follow the forum rules or find a new forum.