91/30 Mosin Nagant, how many are mounting scout scope on dovetail beneath rear sight


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hang fire
January 13, 2012, 01:37 PM
Many today are removing the Mosin Nagant 91/30 rear sight and utilizing the existing dovetail (which is almost 12 mm across top flat) for mounting scout scopes. The dovetail does not exist on all MN, the M44 does not have it, but think all 91/30s do.

IIRC, around 1941, Izhevsk and Tula started pinning the rear sight to the dovetail, but Tula dropped the practice after a few months and continued to soft solder the sight to dovetail. To remove sight with the Izhevsk, drift out the two pins, sometimes a little solder was applied, and the pins are very hard to get out, but with a little heat they come easy. On my Tula shown, the sight was soldered and had a small set screw in rear of sight base with slotted head. When tried screw driver, the slot just twisted out, milled it out, (could be drilled out just as easy) applied a little heat until soft solder flowed and sight pushed right off to the front. While area was still hot, wiped the remaining solder off, then used steel wool to remove the tinned effect.

I used this 3/8"/11 mm (adjustable for either)_dovetail to Weaver adaptor, it attaches to the MN dovetail with two SH cap screws., but some are using 3/8”/11 mm ring mounts.

Got it on Amazon for $8.50, originally for air guns, but the quality is top notch.

http://cdn.pyramydair.com/images/zoomed/UTG-Tactical-Rail-Adaptor-22cal_MNT-PMTOWL_rail-adaptor_zm.jpg

http://cdn.pyramydair.com/images/zoomed/UTG-Tactical-Rail-Adaptor-22cal_MNT-PMTOWL_rail-adaptor_zm2.jpg


Got 11 mm dovetail to weaver mount installed on the MN dovetail and very pleased with it. The Tula came prebubbarized and picked it up for $25.00, made a lace up cheek piece. It is very accurate with HC GC cast boolits and is now my designated truck gun. The scope is a $42.00 NCStar 2-7 pistol scope, and eye relief is dead on. No way was I going to put a 100 dollar saddle on a 20 dollar horse.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010313.jpg

This is the full dog set screw which comes threaded into mount and prevents sliding under recoil.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010318.jpg

I milled shallow recess in MN dovetail to accept the full dog set screw, very much doubt there will be any movement of the scope/mount as some have suggested would take place under recoil.


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010316.jpg[/QUOTE]

The thought crossed by mind for backup sights if the scope fails while in the field. These Mendoza sights too are made for air guns, but they are very sturdy. Would have to be, for some air guns have a subtle, but vicious recoil that have ruined many a scope. As the mount is easily removed, one could just slide the pre zeroed metal sight onto dove tail and tighten in place.


Mendoza Micrometer open rear sight, +/- 20 bucks, says will fit 11 mm or 3/8” dovetail

http://cdn.pyramydair.com/images/acc/Mendoza-Receiver-Sight-2004.jpg

They also make an aperture for around 30 bucks

http://cdn.pyramydair.com/images/acc/555-12-2000-2003.jpg

I was going to order the open rear, but thinking maybe the aperture sight with the disc removed, might make a good ghost ring alternative. But I am having a hard time finding the aperture sight for sale, as all seem to be on back order.

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LoonWulf
January 13, 2012, 02:21 PM
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2879/img20111026144209.jpg
By kaby1010 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/kaby1010) at 2011-10-30

I used a plain one piece air gun mount. I shimmed the front with a strip of metal, as they dovetail tapers a bit. Also if you feal like ruining the rear sight. A 581 series mini-14 rear peep fits onto the blade of the existing sight with very little modification. You WILL need a higher front tho.
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6628/img20111205185858.jpg
By kaby1010 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/kaby1010) at 2011-12-05

hang fire
January 13, 2012, 02:34 PM
I considered using a lower mount and yours looks good. I have seen some of the low scope ring mounts and they too make for a lower scope.

But with the cheek piece weld, this one works out naturally shoulder mounting on target for me.

desidog
January 13, 2012, 03:25 PM
Interesting project. I'd love to hear how it is doing after a 4th or 5th range trip.

hang fire
January 13, 2012, 03:35 PM
It now has two shooting trips under the belt with about 150 rounds total. 40 rounds of combloc milsurp and the rest cast boolit handloads. Has not shifted zero and the NCStar scope looks to be holding zero through 2-7 power change ranges with no problems, which I was a little leary of.

Here in a little retirement community it is easy for me to test shoot, as we live only a couple hundred yards from BLM land and old duffers are banging away at all hours of the day.

LoonWulf
January 13, 2012, 03:46 PM
Ive put about 80 hot handloads tru my rifle with the scope on it. No issues with the mount (4"s of aluminum rail clamps pretty good), but i broke one of those NCstar scopes. I think they are kinda hit or miss. I forgot to mention, that i like the look of those mendoza sights. I used a couple mendoza air rifles, and found them to be of good quality.

wnycollector
January 13, 2012, 03:57 PM
i broke one of those NCstar scopes


Been there, done that also. I have moved on to Bushnell 2-6x32 trophy XLT pistol scopes on S&K scout mounts for my 98K and 91/30. The glass is pretty decent for a $150 scope but, more importantly, these scopes have withstood lots of rounds without loosing zero.

LoonWulf
January 13, 2012, 04:41 PM
Mine is a simmons pro pistol 4x, actually off my contender 7-30 waters. It get stuck on there when im doing load development.

hang fire
January 13, 2012, 11:24 PM
wnycollector"

I have a 2-6x32 trophy XLT pistol scope on my FN K-98 Mauser scout in 7.62x51. (rebarreled by the Israelis) But the eye relief is touchy and sight picture is hard to acquire if in a hurry.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/Scout2.jpg

VT Deer Hunter
January 13, 2012, 11:27 PM
I got the one that goes on the chamber. And it is good, use a normal scope and all that.

rondog
January 14, 2012, 12:55 AM
Here's how I did mine.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/my%20Mosins/DSC_0484.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/my%20Mosins/DSC_0490.jpg

hang fire
January 14, 2012, 03:08 AM
rondog, where did you get that mounting system? Is there a brand name?

wnycollector
January 14, 2012, 08:21 AM
Rondog's mount looks like an AR riser mount very similar to one I have on a .22lr upper.

Hangfire, I agree with you about the sight picture be slow to acquire with the XLT scope on higher magnifications. I bought my 2nd XLT scope a few months ago for the 91/30 because my first scope had withstood getting pounded by a 1000+ rounds of 8mm on my 98K.

Tempest 455
January 14, 2012, 08:57 AM
Did you tryo Mojo? All my Mosins have a Mojo sight. Makes they way more fun to shoot and can be put back to original in less than 5 min.

https://home.comcast.net/~ericdouthitt/DSCN6182.JPG

mgkdrgn
January 14, 2012, 10:53 AM
+1 on the Mojo. Did wonders for me on my M44. I'm planning on putting another on my 19/30

hang fire
January 14, 2012, 12:54 PM
wnycollector:

After my post on the 2-6x32 trophy problem, I wqs comparing the pics of where scopes were mounted on the MN and Mauser. The Mauser mount brought the scope much closer to my eye than the MN one and did not give proper eye relief.

So this morning I switched scopes on the rfles. Eureka, problem solved, the NCStar works fine on the Mauser and the 2-6x32 Trophy installed out on far end of mount on the MN now gives a fast and clear sight picture.

hang fire
January 14, 2012, 01:40 PM
Tempest 455:

Have heard good things about the Mojo, but it will not work for what I want. As it mounts on the existing sight base, whereas I want the backup metallic sight to mount on the existing MN dovetail.

The Mojo Idea is not new, and Williams makes the fire sight system for the SKS. I have this rear sight from Track of the Wolf on a couple rocklocks of mine, it is installed in dovetail out on the barrel and getting a clear sight picture is sure a boon for my old eyes.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/rs-ca-peep-16_0.jpg

rondog
January 14, 2012, 01:48 PM
rondog, where did you get that mounting system? Is there a brand name?

I got it from Optics Planet. Called a Leapers Accushot, p/n RGPMOFS38-25H4. It's a mount made for .22's and airguns, they have several varieties. That one is a "high profile", you might consider the "medium profile", it's a tad lower. I think it cost a whopping $13.95, with shipping, about $24 total. The scope is an NcStar SPB2732B, 2-7x32, also available from Optics Planet.

This is another that I bought from there, it's a RGPM2PA-25M4, also a Leapers Accushot, same price. This one would have been perfect, but it's too long for a stock 91/30, it hits the handguard. If you're putting a 91/30 action in an aftermarket stock with no handguard, this one would be the shizz! It's 100mm long, and the 3 screw base clamp grips like a gorilla. Comes in high or medium height, 1" or 30mm rings. And four clamping screws on each ring. It's a helluva mount for $13.95 plus shipping. I put it on my Glenfield 75C .22 rifle, and you can see how good it looks.

<edit> I forgot to mention that the front ring has a set screw in the bottom of it that screws down onto the dovetail to lock it in place for extra anti-movement support. If a guy really wanted to, you could drill a little dimple in the dovetail for that set screw to seat in.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/my%20other%20rifles%20and%20long%20guns/DSC_0001.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/my%20other%20rifles%20and%20long%20guns/DSC_0002.jpg

Optics Planet and Leapers have the best selection and prices, IMO, but they've got TONS of products to surf through.

wnycollector
January 14, 2012, 02:25 PM
After my post on the 2-6x32 trophy problem, I wqs comparing the pics of where scopes were mounted on the MN and Mauser. The Mauser mount brought the scope much closer to my eye than the MN one and did not give proper eye relief.

So this morning I switched scopes on the rfles. Eureka, problem solved, the NCStar works fine on the Mauser and the 2-6x32 Trophy installed out on far end of mount on the MN now gives a fast and clear sight picture.

It looks like the problem is solved. All this talk of Mausers and Nagants has made me want to go shooting. Once my sons get back home I think we are going to go run to the range today before the sun sets:)

hang fire
January 14, 2012, 03:44 PM
rondog: Many thanks for the info. I especially like the looks of the RGPM2PA-25M4 with the three SH cap screws and will be ordering one out. At prices these quality items are going for, one is not out much $ to experiment betwixt them.

LoonWulf
January 14, 2012, 03:50 PM
Thats pretty much the same mount i have. Got mine off ebay, or deal extreme. You do have to cut the rear band off the hand guard to make it fit tho.

rondog
January 14, 2012, 04:56 PM
Thats pretty much the same mount i have. Got mine off ebay, or deal extreme. You do have to cut the rear band off the hand guard to make it fit tho.

Yeah, I suppose I could have done that, but didn't really want to modify the rifle. I already had that 75mm offset mount which works fine, so I just put the other one on the .22 Glenfield. I'm very happy with the way it looks, and I doubt it'll ever shake that mount loose!

They do offer a 75mm mount that's very similar to the 100mm mount, but it only has 2 screws on the base and 2 on each cap. If they had a 75mm mount that was identical to the 100mm with 3 base screws and 4 on the caps, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

Here's their Accushot line.... http://www.opticsplanet.net/leapers-accushot-riflescope-mounts-rings-amp-bases.html There's many things here that'll work on a Mosin 91/30, but ya gotta be careful ordering because some are very similar, but have Weaver clamps instead of the airgun/.22 clamps, or have 30mm instead of 1" rings. And they vary in heights too.

LoonWulf
January 14, 2012, 05:00 PM
You could drill and tap the base screw, i dont think you NEED more then 2 on the caps, but more is always better LOL. As for durablility those things held up to my old b18 springer, that gun shook 3 or 4 decent quality air gun scopes loose, but never budge the mount.

rickhall4318
January 14, 2012, 09:55 PM
On my 91/30 I drilled out the set screw and melted the solder that held it all together. After heating and beating the crap out of the pins with a punch and a ball peen hammer, removed the rear sight. Then attached highrise Weaver style scope rings and an AIM 3-7x40 scope. Then I put the pin closest to the rear back in. to facilitate that I had to take the dremel tool to it but works great.

jmartillaro
January 23, 2013, 12:16 PM
RONDOG
I saw your pics on the dovetail mount for your mossin. i have several questions.
1 does that mount work with a 91/30 rifle?
2 how has it stood up too fire. any lose of zero or loosening?
3 can you reverse the mount so your eye can have a closer relief or with the bolt get in the way?

Screamin'Eagle
January 23, 2013, 12:37 PM
I use Weaver T-22 mounts on the dovetail base. They work good and you can place them exactly where you want them to mount the optic. They can be found at many brick and mortar gun shops as well as places like Midway. They are usually priced around $12.

Clark
January 23, 2013, 04:58 PM
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/006.jpg
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/extrahole.jpg

I have designed and built many scope mounts for the Mosin Nagant, but I now realized that the best trade off is to use an off the shelf ATI mount from Amazon and get the bolt handle welded.

If one pays for a couple 10-32 holes to be drilled and tapped and pays for a bolt handle to be welded, the money is recovered in the cost savings with a conventional riflescope.

Scout scopes are not a bargain for what you get.

I am, however, about to put a scout scope in an 1895 Winchester, but it ejects straight up. The Mosin Nagant ejects to the right.

Build enough Mosin Nagant sporters, and I think you will come around.

juk
January 23, 2013, 10:20 PM
This looks like a lot of very useful info for someone that would like to play around with their Mosin a bit. I was wondering about the overall price differences between the ATI mount and reg scope vs the rear sight rail mount and scout scope. Which is more stable though?

rondog
January 24, 2013, 02:57 PM
RONDOG
I saw your pics on the dovetail mount for your mossin. i have several questions.
1 does that mount work with a 91/30 rifle?
2 how has it stood up too fire. any lose of zero or loosening?
3 can you reverse the mount so your eye can have a closer relief or with the bolt get in the way?

OK, I got your emails, but this thread is so old I'd forgotten about it.

1. In my photos in post #11 above, That IS a Mosin 91/30.
2. To be honest, I haven't shot it enough to really give a good evaluation, I just have too many other things to shoot that are more fun, and very little range time.
3. Yes, you can reverse the mount, but then the scope is too close to your eye and it messes up the long eye-relief. For me, it works best just like it is. I would like to change the scope, and move from an NcStar to a better quality scope, but that's not a pressing issue at the moment.

I don't really like the look of that offset or "dog leg" mount, but it sure works good. I much prefer the other mount I posted photos of on my .22, but it's just too long for a stock 91/30, I'd have to trim down the handguard and don't want to do that.

Tempest 455
January 25, 2013, 08:13 AM
I used a Rock Solid mount on mine. 500+ rounds later and it's still holding zero.

https://home.comcast.net/~ericdouthitt/DSCN9427.JPG

https://home.comcast.net/~ericdouthitt/DSCN8161.JPG

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