Red Jacket ARs


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GunnyUSMC
January 13, 2012, 03:29 PM
I know that most of you know the name Red Jacket Firearms and know that they do the TV show Sons of Guns. I'm no big fan of the TV show, too much Hollywood BS for me, But I do know that they make some great weapons.
I have known Will for close to 20 years and will tell you that he is not a people person, but he is honest.
Will is a gun builder and that is what he loves to do. He has never been the guy that stands behind the counter to sell guns.
Know I have another friend (Tommy) that has been selling guns for as long as I have known him, which is about 25 years are so. Hell, I even worked for him for three years before I became a LEO.
Tommy is the owner of B&J Guns in Denham Springs LA. I have bought several guns from his store over the years. B&J Guns is now the distributor for Red Jacket Firearms. I stopped by there today and looked at the Red Jacket ARs he had in stock. These are some sweet ARs and I know what will be on my 2012 Christmas list.
http://i42.tinypic.com/9zplwn.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/snjnfl.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/25i6ekj.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/sm6dmt.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/2dt7qd0.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/n1uecp.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/lzd4x.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/bdqdqt.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/mmvjpy.jpg

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kfgk14
January 13, 2012, 03:38 PM
For less money, there are better firearms. I could spec out a fully mil-spec, higher-quality build for the same price, with a free float rail, easily. Complete lower for under $300, complete upper for under $800, floated and mil-spec.

The show is alright, I'd rather watch "Breaking Bad" or "Hell on Wheels" but it's alright I guess. Explosions are cool. for a serious, hard use AR-15 though, a BCM, Colt, or Daniel Defense would serve you better.

Inebriated
January 13, 2012, 03:50 PM
They do nothing (TO MY KNOWLEDGE) that I couldn't do for less.

MikeRussell
January 13, 2012, 03:53 PM
For less money, there are better firearms. I could spec out a fully mil-spec, higher-quality build for the same price, with a free float rail, easily. Complete lower for under $300, complete upper for under $800, floated and mil-spec.

To hell with could, I did. Under a grand, 6.8 16in middy that I'd put up against theirs any day.
http://img.tapatalk.com/0c15ae15-99c5-d0d8.jpg

drsfmd
January 13, 2012, 03:55 PM
Can it be purchased without the Red Jacket logo being on every single part? That's just tacky IMO.

MikeRussell
January 13, 2012, 04:03 PM
Can it be purchased without the Red Jacket logo being on every single part? That's just tacky IMO.

Nope, thats where the inflated cost comes from LOL

ny32182
January 13, 2012, 04:08 PM
Can it be purchased without the Red Jacket logo being on every single part? That's just tacky IMO.

Theirs is just as bad, but certainly not unique in that respect; it seems that all of a sudden, every single AR assembler felt the need to put their logo on every part that leaves their building. I'm not a big fan of it either.

Nullcone
January 13, 2012, 04:24 PM
This thread belongs in the cheesy advertisement and self-promotion sub-forum.

Oh wait, we don't have one?

Probably for a reason...

El Tejon
January 13, 2012, 04:26 PM
For less money, there are better firearms

Please share with us then.

They do nothing (TO MY KNOWLEDGE) that I couldn't do for less.

Please share with the class. Tell me how to build a Katana on the cheap and I am all ears!

I have a couple of Katanas which were purchased after I got to handle the prototype at Shootrite. I am very happy with the carbines. They are going to Texas next month.:)

gun addict
January 13, 2012, 04:36 PM
my classy M4 and it's as close to my issued M4 as i can built

Colt 6721, full auto bolt carrier, KAC RAS M4 rail, panels, foregrip, Surefight weaponlight on ARMS mount, Trijicon ACOG 4x, badger ordnance tac latch

the whole thing costed me less than $900 to built overall, id take it anyday vs some unknown Red Jacket AR with their logo all over

Adam123
January 13, 2012, 04:40 PM
If someone thinks it's cool to own a firearm from a reality soap opera, more power to them. To me, it's just plain stupidity. RJF = overpriced. Their show is garbage too.

ny32182
January 13, 2012, 04:46 PM
I realize prices have come down and all, but I'd sure love to see the cost breakdown on how you get a Colt together with an ACOG, Surfire, and KAC rail for "less than $900", just for entertainment purposes.

gun addict
January 13, 2012, 04:52 PM
no prob NY, look at my old thread
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=62314

about purchasing a LNIB SIG 556 with ACOG, and Harris bipod for $800, plus an HK shotgun for $400

I sold the SIG 556 rifle only for $1000 and kept the ACOG/Harris bipod
Took the HK shotgun+$300 and traded for the Colt 6721

Bought a set of KAC rail, panel, grip and the surefight from a used parts dealer for $150
Bought a Colt Full circle bolt carrier to replace the half moon carrier for $60
Bought the badger ordnance tac latch for $20

so all in all, i got my SHTF AR set up for FAR less than what a red jacket would ask for on their unknown AR15 variant

GunnyUSMC
January 13, 2012, 04:57 PM
This thread belongs in the cheesy advertisement and self-promotion sub-forum.

Oh wait, we don't have one?

Probably for a reason...
Your post is out right rude and pertty cheesy in itself.
I do not work for Red Jacket or for BJ Guns, but the owners of the two are friends of mine.

For less money, there are better firearms. I could spec out a fully mil-spec, higher-quality build for the same price, with a free float rail, easily. Complete lower for under $300, complete upper for under $800, floated and mil-spec.


To hell with could, I did. Under a grand, 6.8 16in middy that I'd put up against theirs any day.


So you can build and sell your ARs with a Lifetime Guarantee ?
I did not start this thread so that others could brag about how good and cheap they could build ARs.
I started this thread to let others know where they coud get A Red Jacket AR if they wanted one.
No, Red Jacket will not make a gun with out there logo on it, but then agan will most other gun co. do that.

ny32182
January 13, 2012, 05:01 PM
I think that link goes to the wrong thread...

But regardless, comparing a factory new price to something you were able to to piece together used with a couple once-in-a-lifetime deals/trades is not really apples to apples.

But I bought my 6920 for $1075, and 6921 for $1050, both NIB... and that is just a couple examples of rifles that are going to be more highly regarded than a Red Jacket AR for less than their listed price. There are many more examples.

Once something is that popularized on TV, you are going to be paying for the name.

rc109a
January 13, 2012, 05:06 PM
I am not bashing or anything else, but I do need to ask this question:

What makes their AR better than others?

The reason for this question is that almost every part that I can visually see is made by other companies and I can buy them just as easy.

This is not a put down or sarcasm, but a question I ask anyone who tries to sell me a rifle.

blarby
January 13, 2012, 05:08 PM
From all of the banter on the interwebs, combined with some really amazing legal paperwork I've seen leads me to believe red jacket items might be collectible soon.

As you appear to have a little better insight, perhaps you can share what you know of red jackets' future ?

gun addict
January 13, 2012, 05:09 PM
seriously with the red jacket, what am i paying for with $1150? It's magpuled out so obviously the furnitures arnt top notch and most people would have to switch it out with a set of quality rails. Are the barrels chrome lined? M4 feed ramp? What grade of steel is used on the barrel? How bout the bolt/bolt carriers? Whos the maker of the lower because Red Jacket surely didnt make it themselves.

What does lifetime guarantee even mean? If i break an extractor do i then sent in the rifle to Red Jacket for replacement or should i do it myself by spending $5? Would Red Jacket replace the barrel if i run over 100,000 rounds through it and completely trash it or decides to abuse the hell out of the rifle?

all in all im paying the price of a Colt or Daniel Defense M4 for an AR with unknown qualities, with a name on it that isnt highly regarded by the gun community..........think i'll pass

GunnyUSMC
January 13, 2012, 05:24 PM
Well I can't answer all of your questions, but I know where there is someone that can.
Give them a call, send an email or write a letter.
Red Jacket Firearms.
9653 Mammoth Ave
Baton Rouge, LA 70814
Toll Free: (800) 951-1319

Fax: (225) 448-3169
RJF@redjacketfirearms.com

P-32
January 13, 2012, 05:28 PM
It would be my guess a hand fitted by a gun smith firearm is going to be better than a mass produced one. And then you have to make a little $ on it. Just like buying a Colt over something else, you pay for the Pony. Not in just AR's either.

Having said that, I would think there are people on this board who could figure out how to get a piston AR to work. I know to Red Jacket TV show is just that....and not going to let us see what really gpes on because if they did, no one would watch it.

But we also know if you have all the parts a AR lower only takes about 30 mins (with a short break) to put it together with only the safety needing some hand fitting. Maybe.

MikeRussell
January 13, 2012, 05:29 PM
Please share with the class. Tell me how to build a Katana on the cheap and I am all ears!

How inexpensive do you want it? You could use a PSA upper (uses a FN barrel) which would cost you under $450 (then swap the handguard for another $150)...or you could assemble one with a Wilson Combat match grade barrel, NiB BCG, and handguard like mine for about $700. Then you can build a lower with a match grade trigger set & good collapsible stock for another $400.

Taking the most expensive upper example, adding the lower, tossing in a set of Magpul flip up BUIS, you are just under $1200 for a rifle that will shoot better than you can...in either 5.56, 6.8, or 7.62x40 (Wilson's barrels all run the same price).

Bartholomew Roberts
January 13, 2012, 05:30 PM
Please share with the class. Tell me how to build a Katana on the cheap and I am all ears!

The AR in the picture above is not the Shootrite Katana; but some other Red Jacket AR, though at the Katana's MSRP of $1,849.00, you certainly have a lot of options in what you can build in an AR for that price.

The AR in the picture above appears to be Red Jacket's KMP-DI rifle (priced at $1,155). Basically, it meets the same specs as a Colt LE6920; but has Magpul furniture and a Magpul MBUS instead of a detachable carry handle. It also has a $55 muzzle device that basically only works with Red Jacket suppressors.

The KMP-DI looks like a good quality rifle; but I don't see any major innovation there. It is a comparative product to a Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, etc. at a slightly higher price point.

GunnyUSMC
January 13, 2012, 05:45 PM
The AR in the picture above is not the Shootrite Katana; but some other Red Jacket AR, though at the Katana's MSRP of $1,849.00, you certainly have a lot of options in what you can build in an AR for that price.

The AR in the picture above appears to be Red Jacket's KMP-DI rifle (priced at $1,155). Basically, it meets the same specs as a Colt LE6920; but has Magpul furniture and a Magpul MBUS instead of a detachable carry handle. It also has a $55 muzzle device that basically only works with Red Jacket suppressors.

The KMP-DI looks like a good quality rifle; but I don't see any major innovation there. It is a comparative product to a Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, etc. at a slightly higher price point.
You pretty much hit it on the head.
But it's not like Red Jacket is having trouble selling guns. They have a 3 month back order.
I also know that I can build an AR from parts for much less. I have a new Rock River lower in the safe.
I did ask my friend if he would cut me a deal on one of the ARs he had in stock, he said no.

Dr.Rob
January 13, 2012, 05:49 PM
So it's not the piston gun?

I can't see the advantage over a Colt at that price point. Are there significant internal differences?

Golderpuff
January 13, 2012, 06:15 PM
I am sorry but this thread is one more reason to not be an active member here. If this statement puts the mark on my head then so let it be. I thought this was "The High Road" not the "bash some ones thread and insult thier friends" forum.

BrocLuno
January 13, 2012, 06:15 PM
I think they are kinda cool. Will seems to be an honest business person who stands behind his work. So, if I wanted a gun with a long warranty and a known place of business, I'd consider it. Too many fly-by-nights in this game. I'm not even sure Colt will be around and doing warranty work when I need it :(

Sure, you can build a kit gun for less and it may work better (?), but how about just comparing running NIB rifles from known MFGs? Is Red Jacket out of line? I don't think so.

They need to capitalize on their TV show now, as that won't be available forever. If I were Will, I'd be doing the same thing, but I might add a bit more chrome (bling:)) and a bigger logo :evil:

What's that value of your kit gun 20 years from now? What's the value of a Red Jacket 20 years from now? My bet is that it will still bring top dollar :)

However, before I buy a Red Jacket, I'll be looking for a HydraMatic Div M-16 just like I humped. With that in the safe, maybe a Red Jacket would be next :)

To those of us who have been shooting more than a 1/2 century - lasting value is a good thing. Which rifle would a family member want to inherit? Could I get mine signed (in Choktaw) by Will - bet it would be worth even more :neener:

Arkansas Paul
January 13, 2012, 06:20 PM
I am sorry but this thread is one more reason to not be an active member here. If this statement puts the mark on my head then so let it be. I thought this was "The High Road" not the "bash some ones thread and insult thier friends" forum.


The last time I checked, it wasn't mandatory to be an active member here. You like it, great, stick around. You don't like it, find one you do like where no one has those pesky opinions that you don't agree with.

Wes Mantooth
January 13, 2012, 06:26 PM
I am sorry but this thread is one more reason to not be an active member here. If this statement puts the mark on my head then so let it be. I thought this was "The High Road" not the "bash some ones thread and insult thier friends" forum.

The original OP basically made an unsolicited advertisement for his friend's businesses and ask if their products were cool. How can you not get strong opinions? But it's no harm-no foul. I'm sure the Gunny got a little fired up when his friends were being crushed in forum form. My guess is he's over it. After all...this is a discussionforum.

BTW. The guns are cool. The show...just more "reality" tv crap. But it's good PR for the shop.

gun addict
January 13, 2012, 06:26 PM
didnt realize that i have to be nice and agree wholeheartly with everything posted.

"why yes! That Iver Johnson 1920s 22lr pistol you bought for $600 is a fantastic purchase and it totally the best choice all around for CCW/Home defense/ Elk hunting"

Wes Mantooth
January 13, 2012, 06:28 PM
I would love to have a AR like that. Even if it's bedazzled with the Red Jacket logo.

JoeMal
January 13, 2012, 06:30 PM
I would love to have a AR like that. Even if it's bedazzled with the Red Jacket logo.Get out your checkbook...all it takes is money and a clean record

And I agree with most in that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You can get a helluva AR for $1200 these days....so asking 'what's so special' about the RJF AR isn't out of line IMO. Sure, it's decked out in Magpul, but so what? What about the guts? If it's backed up with data and results, then fine. Otherwise, I think it's common and fair to ask questions

Tempest 455
January 13, 2012, 06:50 PM
Nice AR. However, I will take my LWRC! :)

https://home.comcast.net/~ericdouthitt/DSCN7792.JPG

fatcat4620
January 13, 2012, 06:54 PM
Throw in the supressor and $1500 OTD would sell a lot of these.

trex1310
January 13, 2012, 07:37 PM
For that kind of money you could get a Ruger SR556. :D

Inebriated
January 13, 2012, 08:54 PM
Please share with the class. Tell me how to build a Katana on the cheap and I am all ears!

Umm...... Do you really not know how you can build an AR under $1900??

crossrhodes
January 13, 2012, 08:59 PM
Well this old Gunny will save his duckets and buy an LWRC or build, as I often do, my own with all the bells for around $1000.

Girodin
January 13, 2012, 10:17 PM
These are some sweet ARs

Serious question, what makes them sweet?

What justifies their price.

I put together the following AR for less money.

It is a Noveske 16" N4 Light Recce, BASIC upper on a CMMG lower.

The upper cost me $685 (with $100 coupon code at midway)
The lower I paid about $200 for but one could do something similar for less these days.

It wears a Troy rear sight which cost $100. I own both the MBUS rear and the Troy rear and the troy is a much more robust and better sight.

It also has a MIAD grip, CTR stock, BAD lever, and ASAP which cost me $23, $75, $25, and $25 respectively. We can round up to $150. That is $1135. It would be just about the same price as the Red Jacket if I added an MOE hand guard in place of the Daniel Defense 9.0 rail I have on order.

What barrel is on the redjacket? Is it of the same quality as a Noveske?

In what way would this rifle be better than a another Mil spec rifle that can be built for much less, say a BCM or even a PSA? These are serious questions that I would be interested in hearing an answer to. Thanks.

riomedinamike
January 13, 2012, 11:55 PM
For everyone who slams another person's product, or the price they can get for it, then this is (still) America, go start your own company, hire the employees, and build a better product and sell it at a lower price. You will soon be very successful.

I own Colts, Bushmasters, Sigs, but the reason I build my own AR's is because I can get exactly what I want in a rifle. I get some pride in knowing i read the books, watched the videos, and actually created something that works, and works well. I don't have much mechanical ability, and I can't build an AK, FAL, HK, or an M1A.

But the beauty of the AR is its modularity, and if I can build ten + over the years, then anyone can. And you can build an $700 AR, or a $$$$ AR, but to be honest, they end up pretty much the same. If you have only one AR, and shoot 20k rds a yr through that one gun, it's going to wear out. I don't shoot that much anymore, and with more AR's, I can spread the round count around.

Good luck on your next purchase, or build.

fallout mike
January 14, 2012, 12:10 AM
Rio, your post lacks coherence. You bash the people that are bashing red jacket by say this is still america and start your own company? If this is still america then they have the right to state their opinion, on a open web public discussion none the less. Then you say the reason you build your own is bc you get exactly what you want and for $700 in that they are all basically the same. This is nearly exactly what everybody is saying. All these opinions are bc of a thread by someone wanting other peoples opinion on the matter. If you don't want to hear peoples opinions then don't ask the questions.

GunnyUSMC
January 14, 2012, 12:37 AM
Now for all of those that posted that Red Jacket's ARs are over priced and how you can build one so much cheaper, How much woud you sell it for?

The original OP basically made an unsolicited advertisement for his friend's businesses and ask if their products were cool.
So you are saying that everytime someone post about a gun they want to buy or bought, they are unsolicited advertising.
I posted about my S&W M&P 45 and that I got it from Bud's Guns. Was that unsolicited advertising?
I did advise that BJ Guns was the new distributor for Red Jacket Firearms, but at no time did I ever give any contact info.

The original OP basically made an unsolicited advertisement for his friend's businesses and ask if their products were cool.
I never asked anything like that. What I stated was.
I stopped by there today and looked at the Red Jacket ARs he had in stock. These are some sweet ARs and I know what will be on my 2012 Christmas list.


##
I am sorry but this thread is one more reason to not be an active member here. If this statement puts the mark on my head then so let it be. I thought this was "The High Road" not the "bash some ones thread and insult thier friends" forum.
I thought so to. In 10 days I have started 35 topics and mad 118 post in those topics and other threads. In only two threads have some members been rude. The funny thing is those two threads were about ARs. :rolleyes:

Now if you don't like Red Jacket's ARs, no skin off my back. If you think they cost too much, don't buy one.
But what ever you think about them is no reason to be rude.

All these opinions are bc of a thread by someone wanting other peoples opinion on the matter. If you don't want to hear peoples opinions then don't ask the questions.
Here is where the problem is. I never aske for anyones opioion. :rolleyes:


I do have question. How many have had a Red Jacket AR in your hands or even seen one in person?

fallout mike
January 14, 2012, 12:45 AM
Well, this is a discussion forum. If you start a post about something then its bc you want a discussion about said subject. This is not twitter or facebook where you just start random threads meant as idle comments. If you start a thread it is indeed asking for input.

GunnyUSMC
January 14, 2012, 12:55 AM
Then that input should be done within the rules of the forum in which it is posted.
An opioion can be stated without being rude.

fallout mike
January 14, 2012, 01:16 AM
Agreed. But there are over 153,000 members on this site. Some are rude. Unfortunately you have to think about what you post or you will get railed on if you leave an opening for it.

imsobored
January 14, 2012, 01:33 AM
Itll be like that anywhere, AR and Glock fanboys. You inquire about something not an ar or glock, you get a bashing and a multitude of suggestions for what your not looking for. Then they get rude when you dont like their suggestion. If its not an Ar or glock, then your wrong.
and not everyone wants to build their own, but you get bashed for wanting to spend a bit extra to have it already built. AND by the way, i like the show.
**puts on flame suit**

*edit* if your not doing what the mainstream is doing, then your wrong

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using tapatalk

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
January 14, 2012, 01:39 AM
Well, I guess I am in the "Not sure if I'd be able to depend on that warranty" crowd. Considering he has lost his FFL and is being sued for fraudulently trading stocks in his company then transferring his INC company to an LLC company without notifying the stockholders, I would kind of have to wonder how he will stay in business and be able to hold up his warranty. Seems like an underhanded type of person to me and not that trustworthy. With those facts in hand, I really don't see where you can call him "honest".

Think I will stick to ASI. Granted they are a little on the high side of the curve, but they have a PROVEN track record (without the retarded TV show) and make some damn fine AR10's. Just got mine a little while back and so far it's been a tack driving machine! Guaranteed 3/4 MOA @100 is hard to throw your nose up at.

cleardiddion
January 14, 2012, 02:05 AM
No offense but I have to agree with a lot of the previous posts saying that I don't see anything special beyond a lot of RJ scratches over every part on the rifle.

Now, if anything was in the rifle which made it rise amongst the reset, at least something unique, it would pique my interest but I'm not seeing it.

GunnyUSMC
January 14, 2012, 02:58 AM
Well, I guess I am in the "Not sure if I'd be able to depend on that warranty" crowd. Considering he has lost his FFL and is being sued for fraudulently trading stocks in his company then transferring his INC company to an LLC company without notifying the stockholders, I would kind of have to wonder how he will stay in business and be able to hold up his warranty. Seems like an underhanded type of person to me and not that trustworthy. With those facts in hand, I really don't see where you can call him "honest".


Where are you getting your facts on these things?
Will did not loose his FFL, I don't think BATF would allow hin to keep building and selling weapons without a FFL.

Like I said before, I don't care for the TV show, due to the Hollywood drama that is added, but I do know Will and have seen his work over the years.

No offense but I have to agree with a lot of the previous posts saying that I don't see anything special beyond a lot of RJ scratches over every part on the rifle.

Now, if anything was in the rifle which made it rise amongst the reset, at least something unique, it would pique my interest but I'm not seeing it.
No Offense taken. You said nothing rude, just stated your opioion, unlike others.

Dr.Rob
January 14, 2012, 03:20 AM
I didn't view the OP as spam. After the TV show talked about Red Jacket DOING AR's a lot of people want to see and review the 'streetable' rifle.

Glad to see someone found them for sale and posted some pics. I'd just like to know more about it.

Girodin
January 14, 2012, 03:36 AM
Will did not loose his FFL, I don't think BATF would allow hin to keep building and selling weapons without a FFL.

Perhaps he didn't loose it but he did lose it. This has been widely reported and discussed. Google Will Hayden lost FFL.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/12/23/sons-of-guns-atf-william-hayden-firearms/#.TvSOF_mImPU

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/73201-red-jacket-firearms-vince-quit/page__fromsearch__1

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1267812_Red_Jacket_lost_ffl_.html&page=6

That last one also gets into a lawsuit Will is facing over allegations that constitute some very illegal to say nothing of unethical behavior. How well do you know him? Granted they are allegations at this point and we will have to wait and see where the suit goes from here.

I see you totally dodged my questions about what barrel those guns have and what makes them worth more than a Novekse.

Also with Vince leaving I would be even more skeptical of the quality of work coming out of RJF. When a guy goes on camera talking about not needing to use a gauge to measure head space and instructing his workers to just eyeball it, that is not someone I want putting together a gun I plan to shoot. I almost had them do a Saiga SBS build for me. After seeing their show I'm really glad I didn't.

tahunua001
January 14, 2012, 03:48 AM
For less money, there are better firearms
Please share with us then.

Quote:
They do nothing (TO MY KNOWLEDGE) that I couldn't do for less.
Please share with the class. Tell me how to build a Katana on the cheap and I am all ears!

I have a couple of Katanas which were purchased after I got to handle the prototype at Shootrite. I am very happy with the carbines. They are going to Texas next month.

you can build that exact same gun from palmetto state armory(minus the tacky RJF etches) for about $750. why would I pay red jacket $1200? PSA is all milspec.

now back to the OP. there is nothing wrong with a RJF gun and I rarely(if ever) will judge someone based on the guns in their collection but I just got disenfranchised to anything that has to do with RJF after seeing all the hollywood bucksnot they feed to the masses. if I had a friend that built guns in the area and needed the business, I would not hesitate to help him out but I would be remiss if I did not point out that there are cheaper options.

jnoble87
January 14, 2012, 04:49 AM
Wow...The whole lot of ya need to take your Midol and get off the PC a bit. It might be cold out in some parts of the world but daaamn...Get off your butts and go shooting, find another hobby, build a ship in a bottle....DO SOMETHING, other than being mall ninjas and armchair commandos.

RJF Has some decent weapons, but like any business they have to make their money off the deal too. Sure those guns probably aren't worth the asking prices full amount, BUT......You gotta make a dime somehow, and by stamping the now made popular by YOU RJF logo on the side of a cheap(er) grade rifle, you have just efficiently made the value of that weapon increase. The show is popular no doubt. But it's just entertainment. Jesus fella's, Reality T.V. ain't meant to be taken seriously.

But in short. I reckon if there is something to bitch about and you get the greater mass majority of the human populous a place to do said bitching, it will be done...In great extent..

Hacker15E
January 14, 2012, 05:12 AM
you can build that exact same gun from palmetto state armory(minus the tacky RJF etches)

To be fair, PSA's crossed cannons are on just as many of their own parts they sell.

MikeRussell
January 14, 2012, 07:50 AM
To be fair, PSA's crossed cannons are on just as many of their own parts they sell.

The crossed cannons are on the left side of the lower receiver (where everyone gets their rollmark put) and it's painted (not engraved) on a small spot just under the rail of the upper receiver on the front, left side. That's it. Just to clarify.

Robert
January 14, 2012, 09:26 AM
Nice looking rifle, a bit over priced imo but if it floats your boat then that is fine by me. Honestly I do not mind the logo, I think it is rather well done. Nor do I have an issue with them putting it on the rifle THEY built. If I were building rifles and were that proud of them I'd put my logo on it as well. Don't like it, then don't buy it.

Now,
If someone posts something that you, not just the OP but anyone, feels is outside of the rules of THR or is in poor taste the best thing you can do is hit the report button. It is the little red and white triangle that appears in every post under the poster's information. This will alert the Mods and they will have a look. Sometimes you are right and something is done about the post. Sometimes you are wrong. Either way that is the correct way to handle things. Taking childish cheap shots at the board, and it's vast majority of fine members, as a whole is not the way to do things. If THR does not suit one's needs and or wants there are plenty of other places on the internet to find someone to agree with you.

Again, you is used in the general sense of the term and is not, I say again NOT, directed at the OP.

Hacker15E
January 14, 2012, 10:31 AM
The crossed cannons are on the left side of the lower receiver (where everyone gets their rollmark put) and it's painted (not engraved) on a small spot just under the rail of the upper receiver on the front, left side. That's it. Just to clarify.

It's also on the bolt and the side of the stock, too.

WNTFW
January 14, 2012, 10:37 AM
"Nice looking rifle, a bit over priced imo but if it floats your boat then that is fine by me. Honestly I do not mind the logo, I think it is rather well done. Nor do I have an issue with them putting it on the rifle THEY built. If I were building rifles and were that proud of them I'd put my logo on it as well. Don't like it, then don't buy it. "

Pretty much my feeling. At least you know up front it will have all the logos. I bet the guys that are new to guns buy them up. Then maybe not who knows.

What I would not do is pay extra without knowing what I get for my money. Some of what people pay extra for is smoke and mirrors. A warranty is not important to some and deal breaker for others.

If I meet someone who bought one I will probably say "nice rifle" and let them be happy with their purchase. They had to make the decision what to buy and don't need to justify it to me. Just think about all the folks out there that think we should not be allowed to own AR's or Ak's.

For everyone that see RJF and SOG in a bad way there are a bunch of people that love it.

I am somewhat indifferent about the whole Red Jacket thing.

MikeRussell
January 14, 2012, 10:45 AM
It's also on the bolt and the side of the stock, too.

What stock? I've only bought parts from them, not complete rifles. I'm assuming that you mean the basic M4 type, because my Magpul stock didn't have anything of theirs marked on it.

Tirod
January 14, 2012, 11:06 AM
Anyone actually own one and can give an accuracy report, along with some shooting with a wide variety of ammo?

In this price range, it needs to be well under 2MOA, and tuned to handle full power loads. If it chokes on Wolff, so be it. On the other hand, handling cheap fodder reliably hints the gas port was modified and it might be overgassed for NATO stuff.

Frankly, logos and Magpul are way too much the focus here, which tells me exactly why I wouldn't bother. Tier One makers don't slather marketing logos all over their stuff, it's purchased because of what it DOES, not how cool it looks. If it's not accurate and reliable, a ton of Etch a Sketch on all the parts won't make it better.

Real eval reports are all about a reproducible milspec ten shot group at 100m, and how many rounds it went without lube before choking. Until then, it's just an unknown and pretty pics don't mean a thing.

TITAN308
January 14, 2012, 11:11 AM
Here is where the problem is. I never aske for anyones opioion.

Posting this on a public forum means you wanted to see what people had to say. Lets not kid ourselves. If you did not want to open up subject for discussion then you would not have created the thread.

With that said - I have no opinion one way or the other. ;)

I too am someone who is developing new AR-15/10 platform products, so take it from me - a majority of people on internet forums are <deleted> bags hiding behind a monitor. I've had a couple of really bad trash talkers that I took some time to locate their name/info and find them on websites like Facebook. Soon as the cover is blown 99% of them magically stop their obnoxious trolling. Hmm, I wonder why?

fallout mike
January 14, 2012, 11:12 AM
A trend I'm seeing here is many people saying this or that is better and then saying they don't even know what parts were used. If you don't know how can you even have an opinion on what's better.

Tirod
January 14, 2012, 11:21 AM
So, other than the Magpul dress up, what parts are used in these things? Where's the specs and some pics of the internals to determine a level of quality?

Nobody has proved or disproved any of the comments. If this is worth the money, then OK. But inquiring minds want to know. I don't take infomercials at face value.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
January 14, 2012, 11:52 AM
Just my opinion:

1. I won't be buying anything from them based on what little I've seen of the show.
2. I don't like the logo's everwhere.
3. "Red Jacket" sounds like a condom brand to me---just sayin.

I have no dog in the fight other than I'll never buy anything from them.

jnoble87
January 14, 2012, 11:53 AM
Soon as the cover is blown 99% of them magically stop their obnoxious trolling. Hmm, I wonder why?

Because when you take the anonymity out of the equation, it becomes real.

GunnyUSMC
January 14, 2012, 01:12 PM
I see you totally dodged my questions about what barrel those guns have and what makes them worth more than a Novekse.

Nope, I didn't dodge it, just didn't think that I had to answer the same question in the same thread a 2nd time.

Here it is since you did not read post number 19 on page one.
Well I can't answer all of your questions, but I know where there is someone that can.
Give them a call, send an email or write a letter.
Red Jacket Firearms.
9653 Mammoth Ave
Baton Rouge, LA 70814
Toll Free: (800) 951-1319

Fax: (225) 448-3169
RJF@redjacketfirearms.com


But you did dodge my question, or is it you just skipped over everthing that has been posted just to state your opinion.
So, since you may have missed my question post #40 on page 2, here it is.
I do have question. How many have had a Red Jacket AR in your hands or even seen one in person?

I do find it funny that with all the opinions that have been posted, no one has answered my question. So that makes me wonder if any of the negative opinions are based on facts. :confused:

Also with Vince leaving I would be even more skeptical of the quality of work coming out of RJF. When a guy goes on camera talking about not needing to use a gauge to measure head space and instructing his workers to just eyeball it, that is not someone I want putting together a gun I plan to shoot. I almost had them do a Saiga SBS build for me. After seeing their show I'm really glad I didn't.

So you are saying that the only guy at RJF building any quality is Vince? The same guy that builds the so called junk on the TV show.
But if Vince built AR of his own and put them on the market, would you by them?
I guess you have no clue where TMZ and the others got all that trash talk from. It all started from Vince's Facebook account after it was hacked.
Now I can't give you all the ends and outs about the Facebood thing because, I don't do the Facebook thing.

HKGuns
January 14, 2012, 01:19 PM
My mama taught me if you don't have anything nice to say, keep your mouth shut. I don't "always" follow that advice. But, it would appear not everyone's mama taught them very well.

I don't think the post was advertising, I find it interesting as it relates to the TV show. Some of you are just out of line with your accusations.

In only two threads have some members been rude. The funny thing is those two threads were about ARs. :rolleyes:

ARFcom infiltrators, I'd say. Thinks its bad here? -Stay away from that site.

Hacker15E
January 14, 2012, 01:52 PM
What stock? I've only bought parts from them, not complete rifles. I'm assuming that you mean the basic M4 type, because my Magpul stock didn't have anything of theirs marked on it.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/6/1649.jpg

MuleRyder
January 14, 2012, 01:58 PM
My 2 cents for what it's worth...I have no idea of the quality of their work, having said that, I would not buy anything from them simply because the guys working in his shop don't seem like professional gunsmiths. Maybe they do great work, but they look and act like bubbas on TV. As for the logos, they are just cashing in on their 15 minutes of fame just like OCC. I'm sure that for every person that dislikes the logo, there is someone who would buy it because it has the logos.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
January 14, 2012, 02:02 PM
NOT from TMZ but the ACTUAL court complain document! http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/08/18/Bum.pdf

Now, to answer your FFL statement here is the most CURRENT FFL for Red Jacket Firearms. Will Hayden LOST his FFL and had to use Vincent Buckles. Then after Vince left he is now operating under someone else's. This is directly from Current Disclosure Division of FFL's in the country.

RED JACKET FIREARMS, L.L.C.Limited Liability CompanyBATON ROUGEActive

Business:RED JACKET FIREARMS, L.L.C.
Charter Number:40202398 K
Registration Date:5/7/2010
Domicile Address
9653 MAMMOTH DR
BATON ROUGE, LA 70814
Mailing Address
9653 MAMMOTH DR
BATON ROUGE, LA 70814
Status
Status: Active
Annual Report Status: In Good Standing
File Date:5/7/2010
Last Report Filed:4/28/2011
Type:Limited Liability Company

Registered Agent(s)
Agent:VINCENT GORDON BUCKLES
Address 1:9653 MAMMOTH DR
City, State, Zip:BATON ROUGE, LA 70814
Appointment Date:9/27/2010

Officer(s) Additional Officers: No
Officer:JOSEPH WHITNEY MEAUX
Title:Member
Address 1:9653 MAMMOTH DR.
City, State, Zip:BATON ROUGE, LA 70814
Officer:VINCENT GORDON BUCKLES
Address 1:9653 MAMMOTH DR
City, State, Zip:BATON ROUGE, LA 70814
Appointment Date:9/27/2010

Officer(s) Additional Officers: No
Officer:JOSEPH WHITNEY MEAUX
Title:Member
Address 1:9653 MAMMOTH DR.
City, State, Zip:BATON ROUGE, LA 70814
Officer:VINCENT GORDON BUCKLES
Title:Member
Address 1:9653 MAMMOTH DR.
City, State, Zip:BATON ROUGE, LA 70814
Officer:CHARLES RILEY WATSON
Title:Member
Address 1:9653 MAMMOTH DR.
City, State, Zip:BATON ROUGE, LA 70814

Sorry GunnyUSMC but your "friend" is not what you seem to want to believe.

TexasPatriot.308
January 14, 2012, 02:57 PM
for less money, Armalite or Colt...what more do they have to prove, plus no cheesy TV show to go with them.

Girodin
January 14, 2012, 02:59 PM
I do have question. How many have had a Red Jacket AR in your hands or even seen one in person?

Nope I haven't. I'm not the one asserting they are sweet ARs either. You made the assertion and were asked to tell what made them sweet. If I understand correctly your answer is, "I don't know, call RJF." If you can't tell me what makes it "sweet" when asked maybe you shouldn't be telling everyone it is in the first place.

I can tell you what makes my Noveske sweet. It is highly accurate and dead nuts reliable with any ammo, including cheap Russian steel case. The fit finish and workmanship is all very good. Oh and it is put together by someone who understands the importance of head space on a rifle.

So you are saying that the only guy at RJF building any quality is Vince?

That is a pretty big jump from what I wrote. I said I would question even further their quality now that he is gone. He seemed like the most qualified of the lot to me.

Are you still asserting Will didn't lose his FFL?

How about the lawsuit over him defrauding his investor?

Vince may have initially put the FFL stuff out there, and then later asserted his facebook was hacked, but it is something that is independently verifiable and people have looked into it. Importantly Will has never come out and said it is not the case. He is a fairly active member over on the S12 boards and the moderators there clamp down pretty hard on any criticism of their business members. If it was untrue I think the would have closed the thread and made statements correcting it.

If Will is your friend why not just call him up and ask him? I'd love to hear what he has to say.

Ole Humpback
January 14, 2012, 04:28 PM
NOT from TMZ but the ACTUAL court complain document! http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/08/18/Bum.pdf

Issuing unregistered investment securities is a bit of a sticky wicket no matter how you look at it. IIRC, Section 63 of the SEC code deals with the licensing required to sell securities of this nature. I also do believe that there is a threshold limit to the value of the individual securities and total dollar value of securities sold before you are required to be licensed to sell unregistered securities. However; the context of the information I just posted is what I remember from a conversation I had with my Uncle on the topic from a year ago and he is licensed to sell unregistered securities.

That court complaint is only a brief summary of what has happened. I don't see several years worth of audited financials by the States AG & the SEC as well as Red Jacket. Just because someone filed a complaint against them doesn't mean it actually holds water. There is more to that complaint than anyone here has access to, so until I start seeing audited financials, asset transfers, business liscenses and so forth I'm not taking sides one way or the other. I guarantee that if everyone went to their county courthouse and spent the day looking just through the FILED liens (not served or paid), they'd never do business with anyone in their county ever again, theres that many of them.

Also, to those of you who are DIY'ers and build the guns yourself for less than what RJF is asking and complaining about there prices, you all are missing some very key things in that equation. Sure, you may have better parts, but RJF is paying for overhead that you aren't while still trying to make a dollar. OH&P markup rates for Over The Counter sales (they aren't a contract manufacturer afterall) are in the vicinity of 150% just so they can cover the costs of handling materials, payroll, and bills. Gunsmiths aren't cheap, skilled labor (gun builders) who can strip down and rebuild almost any gun on Earth aren't cheap, and those machining centers aren't cheap either. That HASS VF2 SS VMC that we all see them machining parts on, as configured, is almost $100k direct from HASS. Thats not counting all the tools, fluids, training, and support that Mastercam & Sandvik or HASS supply on a yearly basis to keep that VMC running.

Stuff costs money. Just because you can build an AR yourself, doesn't mean you have the tools or means to do stuff on the scale of RJF.

Cal-gun Fan
January 14, 2012, 04:33 PM
The way I understood it Red Jacket has more than one shop. They have the shop in the show, and then they have a second shop where most of their firearms are made.

GunnyUSMC
January 14, 2012, 07:17 PM
Nope I haven't. I'm not the one asserting they are sweet ARs either. You made the assertion and were asked to tell what made them sweet. If I understand correctly your answer is, "I don't know, call RJF." If you can't tell me what makes it "sweet" when asked maybe you shouldn't be telling everyone it is in the first place.

I think that you really need to go back and read this thread word for word.
No one asked me why I thought they were so sweet, not even you.
I was asked what brand parts he used and some other questions that I do no know the answer to. And I was not rude when I said that they should contact RJF and ask them.
But now that you have asked why I think they are sweet, I will tell you.
The finish on the guns look very good. It may not show that good in my pics, but I was using my old Fuji A825 to take the pics.
The actions are smooth and the trigger pull was very nice.
I like RJFs flash hider. And I like the MOE stock set.
And I also like the fact that they are build not to far from where I am.

I will try and stop by his shop next week and talk with him.

Girodin
January 14, 2012, 08:07 PM
No one asked me why I thought they were so sweet, not even you.

Really?????? You may want to fact check a little better.

I think that you really need to go back and read this thread word for word.

I think you need to follow your own advice, particularly before calling me out. But I'll make it easy and refer you to the very first line I typed in post #37.

The finish on the guns look very good. It may not show that good (sic) in my pics, but I was using my old Fuji A825 to take the pics.


How does the finish compare to other brands?


I like RJFs flash hider.

Have you actually fired it? How does it compare to say a vortex? Or are you just saying you like the look.

And I like the MOE stock set.

Can't one just add that stock to any AR? Nothing really special there. Oh and by the way it is actually a CTR not an MOE stock. However one can still just add it to any AR though.

And I also like the fact that they are build (sic) not to far from where I am.

Built or assembled?

chad1043
January 14, 2012, 08:38 PM
Wow these AR threads get heated. Glad there is another company offering another weapon that we have the freedom to purchase if we so choose.

taliv
January 14, 2012, 08:43 PM
guys, keep it high road or this thread will get closed

BrocLuno
January 14, 2012, 08:47 PM
Wow, the one really cool thing about this thread is that GunnyUSMC had his learning curve shortened by about about 2 months with this one. Gotta be careful how you "phrase things" starting a thread :banghead:

Yeah, the AR fan boys (actual users not included in this group) will tolerate nothing out of their small group of select toy parts. It's part of the AR culture that keeps me away from black rifles and their discussions.

And, the really ridiculous part is that a lot of the AR fan boys/girls never humped one, never crawled in the mud with one, did guard duty in the rain or snow with one, have no idea what it's like to live with a weapon. They just like the "erector set" mall ninja apocalypse zombie idea that one day they'll use it :(

Ain't goinna happen, but that's a whole nuther debate :evil:

Keep your flame suite on Gunny - this will get more interesting as time goes on :neener:

MuleRyder
January 14, 2012, 09:02 PM
This has been an eye opening thread in regards to AR fans. I for one will never start a thread about an AR for fear of getting beat to a bloody mess.

CmdrSlander
January 14, 2012, 09:22 PM
I'm willing to bet their stuff was cheaper and better built before they had a TV show.

ChisumTK
January 14, 2012, 10:11 PM
didnt realize that i have to be nice and agree wholeheartly with everything posted.

"why yes! That Iver Johnson 1920s 22lr pistol you bought for $600 is a fantastic purchase and it totally the best choice all around for CCW/Home defense/ Elk hunting"

I just want to say that this, on post #29, by gun addict is hilarious. I almost cried because I was laughing so hard.

BrocLuno
January 14, 2012, 10:31 PM
It did raise a laugh here as well :)

gun addict
January 14, 2012, 10:32 PM
yes! Now i can finally do my own stand ups, although i doubt the public audiences would find that joke entertaining

GunnyUSMC
January 15, 2012, 12:24 AM
Wow, the one really cool thing about this thread is that GunnyUSMC had his learning curve shortened by about about 2 months with this one. Gotta be careful how you "phrase things" starting a thread

Yeah, the AR fan boys (actual users not included in this group) will tolerate nothing out of their small group of select toy parts. It's part of the AR culture that keeps me away from black rifles and their discussions.

And, the really ridiculous part is that a lot of the AR fan boys/girls never humped one, never crawled in the mud with one, did guard duty in the rain or snow with one, have no idea what it's like to live with a weapon. They just like the "erector set" mall ninja apocalypse zombie idea that one day they'll use it

Ain't goinna happen, but that's a whole nuther debate

Keep your flame suite on Gunny - this will get more interesting as time goes on
Today 08:43 PM

Yes, I have found that the only low spot on The High Road is a few of these "AR fan boys" It appeares if they have to put something or someone down to fell good about what they have or like.
If I see a topic about a gun that someone says they like, but I don't. I don't feel the need to post a bunch of bashing BS and clame that "well, you ask for my opinion". Most offten I will just go look at something else.

I am one of those that have used the M16A1 and the A2, in all those fun places, all over the world. I know how to use one and have done more the just shoot paper bad guys.

I don't really need a flame suit, I have thick skin.;)

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
January 15, 2012, 01:28 AM
Sorry if your feelings have been injured Gunny (and the other couple of girlies that are screaming "AR fanboys") but YOU chose to "advertise" for the Red Jacket Firearms L.L.C. made AR and in so doing, you have gotten replies of truth. We have only showed that you can do something cheaper and possibly even better without having to buy something that is overpriced. Could you please show us a damn thing that they make at RJF other than suppressors and flash hiders (threaded to accept ONLY their suppressors). They are simply an assembly plant much like several others that do the exact same thing with the exact same or even better quality for a lower price. And THEY have not lost their FFL's! YOU sir chose to advertise for an underhanded individual not US! Can't take the heat, get out the kitchen!

I'm no AR Fanboy as a couple have so low roadly put it. I've carried them in service for a LONG time. I now own an AR 10 and absolutely LOVE the overpriced, overweight, overbearing beast! Put together by a company that has specialized in the AR15 and AR10 for a long time now not just since the mall ninja craze!

GunnyUSMC
January 15, 2012, 05:11 AM
Freedom_fighter_in_IL

My feelings have not been injured.
I didn't even call you an AR fan boy. But I have found that the AR bunch on this forum are rude. I have found in life that you don't have to be rude to disagree or when stating an opinion.

HKGuns
January 15, 2012, 09:47 AM
Gunny, just wait till I post pictures [advertising?] of my soon to be next AR purchase!

They're going to get the hippie shakes when they see my brand spanking new HK MR556! It makes that Red Jacket look down right bargain basement and it'll make you feel better as well!

Arkansas Paul
January 15, 2012, 10:39 AM
I'll take some of the heat off of you Gunny. Here it goes.


Glocks are WAY better than 1911s. And they look better too.

There.

digdeep74
January 15, 2012, 10:45 AM
GunnyUSMC this just brings me back to some advise that my step father a Vietnam vet was kind enough to teach me "80 percent of the people you meet aren't worthy of a conversation":banghead:
Best advise ever except i teach my four children 90%.

I think you should buy one and post it in the for sale ads for about 1900$ just to watch the same folks raise hell .
ill buy the popcorn!

This is why i dont post much dont feel like getting into a debate about preference when thats generally not what im looking for .
We should start a thread called MAN CAVE just for those who can handle expressing their wants and desires without another telling them how stupid there opinion is .

Arkansas Paul
January 15, 2012, 12:06 PM
We should start a thread called MAN CAVE just for those who can handle expressing their wants and desires without another telling them how stupid there opinion is .


We already have that. It's titled "Show us a picture of your reloading bench" and it's the best thread on the entire forum.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=218720

digdeep74
January 15, 2012, 12:10 PM
God if i reload too ill be divorced:cuss: thanks for the heads up ill have to check that out!


that little thing up there is my wife as im setting up the reload area of my man cave.

Elkins45
January 15, 2012, 12:15 PM
AR prices (in terms of real dollars) have plummeted over the last eight years since the AWB expired. For $1200 I would expect a gun to come with a top of the line barrel, and that the builder would take pains to publicize that fact. I can't see myself dropping that much without knowing the maker, regardless of who the assembler happened to be.

Arkansas Paul
January 15, 2012, 12:34 PM
God if i reload too ill be divorced


Nah, just tell her you'll save money. Of course we all know it's BS overall, but technically, per box you will.

I've gotten more ideas from that thread that I can think of. There are truly some amazing man caves on display there. Some guys have must have an unlimited budget.

Off topic I know, but hey, at least we aren't being mean. :)

mgregg85
January 15, 2012, 12:38 PM
Over a $1,100 for a basic M4gery? Why not just buy a complete lower and complete upper from bcm? You'll come out with more money for ammo and with a weapon that is equal or possibly better than that. And you won't have to wait six months for delivery.

I really liked this part from their website...
The upper and lower receivers are forged from 7075-T6 aluminum, equipped with a either a 1/7 Twist rate M4 profile chrome lined barrel or a match grade 1/7 stainless barrel, fluted for stiffness and superior accuracy.

Anyone want to explain how fluting a barrel will increase its stiffness?

fallout mike
January 15, 2012, 12:39 PM
Arkansas paul, he brought the heat on himself by starting this thread and then saying he, asked for no ones opinion? What does he think this is? A show & tell where no one comments or says their opinions?

digdeep74
January 15, 2012, 12:47 PM
Just becuase you can build a rifle cheaper means nothing .
Would you do it for me for cost hell no!

I am a machine builder for a major oilfield service company and im sure i could build my own machine cheaper than they sell it for but then i would have to market it, make design changes ,back it liability wise,provide my own benifits and fund all the parts out of pocket .


BACK TO BEING FRIENDLY AND OFF SUBJECT:
Those reloading man caves scream my name and im officially inspired!

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
January 15, 2012, 01:43 PM
Glocks are WAY better than 1911s. And they look better too.

1911's at NOON Paul! Thems fightin words! *Slaps Paul with glove on BOTH sides of face* :D

BrocLuno
January 15, 2012, 01:59 PM
Are there any Red Jacket GLOCK's :p

GunnyUSMC
January 15, 2012, 02:50 PM
Are there any Red Jacket GLOCK's
No, but they do have a 1911
http://i42.tinypic.com/2m7gm78.jpg
It looks ok, but not my cup of tea.

Arkansas paul, he brought the heat on himself by starting this thread and then saying he, asked for no ones opinion? What does he think this is? A show & tell where no one comments or says their opinions?
Hear is what I can't understand. I make a post theeling about to guys I know and have known for some time, One has a Co. that makes guns (are call it what you want) And the other sells guns. I went by my friends gun shop and saw that he was selling my other friends gun.
Shame on me for thinking that someone here would like to see them.

Now I know that people will post there opinions whenever someone makes a post. That is fine with me. But I did not ask anyone for there opinion. I would have had to write something like "What do y'all think about this" or just flat out "What's your opinion".
I still find it funny that all the ones with the strong opinions have never met Will or even seen one of his ARs.

Oh! I also have a Man Cave. Just closed in the carport. It 15x25 ft.

Hacker15E
January 15, 2012, 02:59 PM
Just becuase you can build a rifle cheaper means nothing .
Would you do it for me for cost hell no!

I am a machine builder for a major oilfield service company and im sure i could build my own machine cheaper than they sell it for but then i would have to market it, make design changes ,back it liability wise,provide my own benifits and fund all the parts out of pocket

I think you're missing the point completely; people who are saying "you can build it for cheaper" are using the word "build" very colloquially. In reality, they are talking about the ability for a consumer to purchase parts of equal quality for a lesser price from a vendor (who is assuming all the costs and liabilities you are referring to), and assemble them into a useable firearm.

You're right -- if they were talking about literally building one, that is not something that could be done for less money. The word "build" gets thrown around a lot in AR circles, when they really just mean assembling parts that are essentially all ready complete.

Elkins45
January 15, 2012, 02:59 PM
Oh! I also have a Man Cave. Just closed in the carport. It 15x25 ft.

That's great. Just don't go and do something crazy like find a used metal lathe on Craigslist so you can start fitting your own barrels and modifying bullet molds. That's when you'll know you've gone over into the deep end!

Now if you'll excuse me I need to get back out to my workshop so I can put my new metal lathe together... :D

eastbank
January 15, 2012, 03:50 PM
when on the TV show they said the japanese service rifle had no safety(it does), ammo was hard to get(its not),was not safe to fire(it is) and then charged a out of this world price to clean it,they lost me forever. if a so called expert did not know these things,how can you believe any thing put on the show? eastbank.

digdeep74
January 15, 2012, 03:52 PM
Quote:
Just becuase you can build a rifle cheaper means nothing .
Would you do it for me for cost hell no!

I am a machine builder for a major oilfield service company and im sure i could build my own machine cheaper than they sell it for but then i would have to market it, make design changes ,back it liability wise,provide my own benifits and fund all the parts out of pocket
I think you're missing the point completely; people who are saying "you can build it for cheaper" are using the word "build" very colloquially. In reality, they are talking about the ability for a consumer to purchase parts of equal quality for a lesser price from a vendor (who is assuming all the costs and liabilities you are referring to), and assemble them into a useable firearm.

You're right -- if they were talking about literally building one, that is not something that could be done for less money. The word "build" gets thrown around a lot in AR circles, when they really just mean assembling parts that are essentially all ready complete

I dont think im missing the point in my sweetest baby jesus voice...lol
I think you are. The ones who are sying they could "build one"cheaper wouldnt do it for nothing for thousands of people would they, its a business meant to make MONEY not friends. .

Arkansas Paul
January 15, 2012, 04:32 PM
I actually like the looks of that 1911, but could do without the billboard. I'm not fond of that on any gun. I hate that Remington plastered it on their 1911.

Erik M
January 15, 2012, 05:08 PM
Nothing I have seen in pictures leads me to believe that the quality would best that of Noveske, Rainier, or LMT. This unsolicited ad will not change my opinion. Best of luck to them in future ventures as I was informed they lost their FFL license and one of the men in the shop took over management.

Stevie-Ray
January 15, 2012, 06:58 PM
Glocks are WAY better than 1911s. And they look better too.

[The Survivors]Blasphemy! You'll smoke a turd in hell for that.[/The Survivors]

Actually, I think the RJF ARs look pretty good. But, I'll keep my Colt.

BrocLuno
January 15, 2012, 07:42 PM
Still looking for a Hydramatic Div :)

MikeRussell
January 15, 2012, 08:17 PM
The ones who are sying they could "build one"cheaper wouldnt do it for nothing for thousands of people would they, its a business meant to make MONEY not friends. .

For thousands of people, I'd build them for $100 over cost. So, one like that pictured would be around $900.

MikeRussell
January 15, 2012, 08:19 PM
That's great. Just don't go and do something crazy like find a used metal lathe on Craigslist so you can start fitting your own barrels and modifying bullet molds. That's when you'll know you've gone over into the deep end!

Now if you'll excuse me I need to get back out to my workshop so I can put my new metal lathe together... :D

I would LOVE to have a lathe, it would definitely solve the problem of trying to get someone to machine a blank for me to fit a 7mm ARk project I'm wanting to do!

MikeRussell
January 15, 2012, 08:27 PM
The word "build" gets thrown around a lot in AR circles, when they really just mean assembling parts that are essentially all ready complete.

Which is what RJF is doing. They have a manufacturer put their rollmarks on the uppers & lowers, they buy their barrels, stocks, grips, handguard, & internals...then assemble them. About the only thing they may make is their flash hider, but if they were smart they'd farm that out.

Very few in the AR market make their own barrels/bolts/BCGs, few make a special upgraded trigger group, few make their own stocks, their are a handful of forges & manufacturers that make & machine upper & lower receivers. Most companies are just assemblers that may or may not do custom fitting.

Tirod
January 15, 2012, 08:47 PM
Well, I built my AR, and didn't use any Brand Name parts. Cost me about $1k, what the heck, doing the best I could over two years, I was still buying retail.

Oh, BTW, I have spent some time eating, sleeping, and sweating with one.

The first post needs some review - Gunny said up front he didn't care for the TV hype, it was a personal relationship with one of the assemblers and the recent distribution setup with a gunshop nearby. OK.

I think what might have set my teeth a bit on edge are the terms "Magpul," "sweet," and then a lack of info about what constitutes the gun, ie what parts?

The biggest issue with another "Maker" out there is that the AR fanboys do know very well who actually makes parts. If those sources aren't named, well, it could easily be import Korean, Chinese, or Israeli.

Hey, like it or not, parts are not all Made in the USA. And, if you bring your 1911's to the barbecue, can you actually know it is? Cause the six leading low price 1911's aren't.

At least I think I know where my Glock was made.

Entirely why some were making the TV show or who's got the FFL an issue goes to Not Sticking To The Freaking Topic, which seems to be an ongoing situation in this day of ADD and the internet.

So, aside from having some alternate stock supplier, and their logo all over it, and the assessment it's "sweet," just exactly are we supposed to think? Some creds would do better, like used by the #xx placed Three Gun Competitor, or built to milspec (and yeah, that's a nest of snakes.)

Otherwise, I could easily assume the gun I built was the better one. I at least know where most of those parts were sourced. For $1k retail, Red Jacket could have done it far less, buying parts in volume - and done it cheaper. There's a big difference in $599 S&W's, vs. a Colt.

Tell us why RJ is charging Colt retail, do we actually get our money's worth.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
January 15, 2012, 08:54 PM
Entirely why some were making the TV show or who's got the FFL an issue goes to Not Sticking To The Freaking Topic, which seems to be an ongoing situation in this day of ADD and the internet.

Tierod, That was brought up in response to the Warranty issue. If the man can't keep his FFL and keeps getting sued for underhanded business acts then how could we trust that he will be in business to HONOR that warranty? Lifetime warranty doesn't mean squat if the guy is out of business 5 years down the road now does it?

Tirod
January 15, 2012, 09:45 PM
It took a few posts to express what you put in a few sentences.

We've gone five pages and still no idea of what's in the gun. Somebody tell me that, in one post, which I've already asked for, twice.


Barrel, chamber, twist, number of lands, profile, chromed or what?
Bolt carrier type, bolt material, MPI by batch or individually?
Who forged and machined the upper and lower?
Milspec or commericial buffer tube, buffer, make action spring?
Whose trigger?
Make flash hider?

AR parts have a legion of suppliers, it's been on the market 45 years. If this was a new bolt action we'd just say "how nice" and ask for a range target for accuracy. The maker would actually be ho hum, ok it's Who? A Kreiger barrel on a modified 700 receiver, oh. Of course it's a Fajen stock.

Semi auto actions are a bit more complex. What parts come from where is important. If you were gifted a 1911 it sure might make some difference if the parts were marked Shi Tzu Armory. Or Keltec.

Actual "Silverados" don't run 350 motors. If you own one, you need to know.

What parts are in this gun?

Woodshark
January 15, 2012, 10:57 PM
Churches do not pay [U]income[U] taxes, they still have to pay property, occupancy, utility taxes. It would not surprise me if they were taxed on equipment also. Municipalities regard churches as business like any other when it comes to leeching cash.

crazy-mp
January 15, 2012, 11:04 PM
Whats the deal with their QD suppressor flash hider? They use a external thread and no ratchet mechanism to keep the suppressor from backing off? Sounds like the future owner(s) are going to have many a baffle strike.

How quick is their QD mount? Look how many times the threads go around the flash hider, versus a real QD mount.

http://advanced-armament.com/repository/product/brakeout-main.jpg

Girodin
January 15, 2012, 11:45 PM
Somebody tell me that, in one post, which I've already asked for, twice.


Barrel, chamber, twist, number of lands, profile, chromed or what?
Bolt carrier type, bolt material, MPI by batch or individually?
Who forged and machined the upper and lower?
Milspec or commericial buffer tube, buffer, make action spring?
Whose trigger?
Make flash hider?


The guy that is telling you it is a sweet rifle couldn't even correctly identify the stock that was on the rifle. I'd imagine he doesn't have a clue where the barrel came from or anything else that might be indicative of whether it is actually "sweet."


I'm not the one pimping these things but I'll take a stab at answer as much as I have been able to find. My response are in bold.

Somebody tell me that, in one post, which I've already asked for, twice.


Barrel, chamber, twist, number of lands, profile, chromed or what?

There are two options either a 1/7 Twist rate M4 profile chrome lined barrel or a match grade 1/7 stainless barrel. According to RJF website the SS barrel is "fluted for stiffness and superior accuracy." I'll let Will or his appologists try explain how fluting a barrel makes it stiffer or more accurate, should be very entertaining. Their website provides no info on chamber, lands, or, importantly, where these barrels come from

Bolt carrier type, bolt material, MPI by batch or individually?

Their website states the following (of course their website also states barrels are fluted for stiffness) "Bolt- Meets and/or exceeds all Mil-Spec requirements. Each is individually MPI and HPT (High Pressure Tested) tested and certified. High Nickel and Chromium content alloy for longevity and the ultimate in reliability. Every bolt is equipped with an extreme duty extractor and spring set. Fully stress relieved and surface hardened."

Who forged and machined the upper and lower?

RJF is not saying.

Milspec or commericial buffer tube, buffer, make action spring?


RJF is not saying.

Whose trigger?


RJF is not saying.

Make flash hider?

Some have said RJF is making this piece.




The OP has already stated he doesn't know any of this stuff. I asked him what then makes it sweet and he responded by denying I have asked and then saying that it has Magpul MOE furniture and a pretty finish and is put together near his home. I pointed out to him where I did ask and asked some followup questions and despite having posted since then the OP has ignored me.

My sense of it is that the OP is an acquaintance of Will who was not privy to the facts that indicate Will's character may be very questionable and who does not know a lot about ARs. He put up some friendly free promotion for RJF. Nothing wrong with that. I do think it is silly he got upset when people inquired about what made the rifle sweet or pointed out there were better values on the market.

ugaarguy
January 16, 2012, 12:02 AM
Girodin & Tirod, the specs on the RJF lists on the Shootrite Katana may provide some clues:
The Shootrite Katana
Barrel: 16-inch thin profile, with standard A2 diameter for sight base.
by E.R. Shaw
Flash Suppressor: Standard A2
Upper Receiver: Les Baer, Flattop w/o forward assist.
Daniel Defense, MPI bolt.
Modifications to bolt assembly:
Chrome silicon extractor and ejector springs.
Original solid firing pin retaining pin.
Bevel edge of ejector for feeding reliability.
Charging Handle: Bravo Company Gunfighter
Ejection Port Cover: Mil-Spec.
Gas Tube and Pin: Mil-Spec.
Handguard: Hiperform, Carbon Fiber one-piece unit.
Refinished in satin black, with sling mount and light rail.
Front Sight: Mil-Spec A2, with spring and detent.
Light Rail: 2 ” Picitiny Rail Mounted to handguard at 11:00 for right hand shooter.
(Rail bolted with washers and thin nylock nuts and epoxied to handguard.)
Front Sling Mount: Attached to handguard @ 6:00 position.
(Bolted and expoxied as light rail.)
Rear Sight: Daniel Defense, A1.5.
Katana Parts List – Lower
Lower: Daniel Defense Mil Spec.
(Logo engraved, manufacturer name, and Katana serial number to match upper.)
Internal Parts: Mil-Spec internals
Stock (Standard): Fulton Armory, A1 stock, with sling mount attached to left side, for right-handed shooter. (Bolted and epoxied as light rail.)
(Requires filling in hole from original sling mount, and painting flat black.)
Stock (Optional):Magpul CTR, commercial dia. retractable 6 position stock
Grip: DuckBill Tactical Grip.

ETA: Link - http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=42&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6.

Here are a few thoughts. There's a $75 up-charge for the MagPul CTR collapsible stock & commercial buffer tube assy. That, in and of itself isn't bad, but when you factor in the $1850 base, and $1925 total price it's ridiculous that you don't get a commercial buffer tube assy. The parts listed are good, but I don't see them justifying the $1850 price of the Katana.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
January 16, 2012, 12:20 AM
So ugaarguy, what you are saying is, They get about $800 dollars worth of parts, spend an hour and a half assembling it (very slow estimate) charge customer $1850 bucks. Damn I'm in the wrong business! I mean I can see making a buck and overhead costs and all (considering I have my own business) but DAYUMN that's awful steep for an assembly job!

Robtattoo
January 16, 2012, 12:34 AM
Pfft....Nancy boy substitute for an AK :what:



:neener: :D

GunnyUSMC
January 16, 2012, 08:06 AM
I know that others will state their opinion when I post something and I have no problem with that.
But don't go saying that I asked for your opinion, because I did not.
No, I am not one of the AR guys that has to know everypart of every gun.
I know how to use an AR and how to keep one running in the field and have used them for more then shooting paper targets.
I like the look of RJF's AR. Others here don't. Many say that they can build one for less, hell I know that I could buy the parts and build one for less.
But I didn't make this post to see how much cheaper others can build an AR.


I have many guns at home and I can't tell you who made every part on every one. I also think that S&W's AR is pretty sweet or should I say nice, it seems that some of you got upset the last time I used the word sweet. And I have no clue who makes their parts.
And does it really matter to y'all so much why I like RJF's AR.
I have never seen so much dislike for something by people that have never even looked at one.


I guess since I couldn't even correctly identify the stock set on the rifle, I have blown any chance to ever get into one of the AR fan clubs.:rolleyes:

eastbank
January 16, 2012, 08:32 AM
well you sure as hell should know about rifles your giveing advise on, (japanese ww-2 rifle) i don,t have time for people who try to blow smoke up a customer,s AsS, if he would do that why wouldn,t he do it about another firearm?.the show is on par with pickers, storgage wars(just watched a show where S&W,colt,browning and a old win 86 firearm were found, worth over 20,000 dollars) and pawn store shows. not to mention the legal issues he has. eastbank.

Tirod
January 16, 2012, 09:16 AM
Gunny, I couldn't tell you exactly where every single part in my AR actually was made, this industry gets stuff from each other worse than a legendary biker picnic.

If there's an issue, like I said, the terms "Magpul" and "sweet" likely set it off. It tainted the entire nature of the post, and had it been done by someone with a different online monicker with less posts, it might have been ignored.

However, "GunnyUSMC" is going to give people a preconceived notion of a dry, hardbitten firearms expert. Precisely why I don't use any of my military rank or MOS qualifications as a handle. Raises too many expectations.

Apparently what RJ does is base a lot of the build on Daniel Defense parts, that's not a slouchy Brand, they do their own machine work. Remains to be seen how much RJ actually does. CNC lathes, etc., aren't cheap and require big capital investments.

Given that the original post came off sounding like a 2 post junior high schoolers infomercial on an adult forum about a duty/combat weapon made by a less than professional level TV show staff, it's really not surprising when folks got bent at the contrast. "Sweet" and "GunnyUSMC" doesn't work for them - which is a reflection on their bias, there it is.

The gun does sound overpriced, why not just get a DD and forego the Magpul entirely. The money saved would finance a 4G phone for a year.

I haven't worried much about joining the AR club, a lot of those guys haven't humped one or actually raised their hand and pledged their life to the Constitution. Considering they trick out their guns far beyond combat standards, it only shows their focus on CNC and credit card use to establish some social pecking order. Has nothing to do with actual service to their country.

They don't get free meals on Veterans Day.

Sam1911
January 16, 2012, 09:38 AM
High noise, Low signal = failure to communicate.

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