ok 1911 gurus, this question's for you


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21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 01:22 AM
Every time I get the urge to buy my 1st 1911, I stumble across the same problem: it's got THIS but it doesn't have THAT. :fire: I just want a 1911a2 which has all the cool tactical features, stock, for under a grand:

double stack
night sights
tac rail
front strap stippling
some sort of 2 tone (black & OD, FDE, etc)
upgraded hammer & trigger

Now mind you, I keep settling on a 1911 that doesn't have one of those features (almost got a Para, RIA, Taurus, SA) then right before I accept it, I say "NO, GO START A THREAD ON ALL THOSE FORUMS YOU'RE LURKING ON!!!! Instead of reading all the time, try actually POSTING."
I've looked on & off for about a year at all the usual suspects and gentlemen, I need you to say "What about the ________? How could you miss it?" because I feel like somehow I've overlooked one. Thanks everybody!:)

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DHart
January 19, 2012, 01:39 AM
I can't see a "first" 1911 being a double stack but, you want a double stack 1911? Then do it up right. STI.

Yeah, you'll spend a fair bit more than a grand, but you'll get a double stack 1911 that will do the job reliably, no B.S., no custom work required, high grade from the get-go.

Pick your caliber. Mine's an Edge in .40 because I wanted capacity and uber-luxurious shooting. Shooting .40 from an Edge feels like you're shooting a 9. Sweet. If you haven't shot one of these yet, you're in for a real treat.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/STI%20Edge/Edge_1284.jpg

HDCamel
January 19, 2012, 01:43 AM
Under a grand?
Not gonna happen.

Para 14-45 Light Rail is under a grand stock, but to get everything you want installed would put you over.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 02:46 AM
OK, I'll check it out and see if I can finagle one used or online somewhere. Thanks!


Actually I have looked at that one. Thought it sounded familiar. I have the 14-45 Black ops bookmarked but it's about $300 more than what I'd like to spend.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 02:59 AM
Um.......no, no thank you. I knew there would be somebody who would completely disregard the price, just didn't think it would be literally over 100% higher.

Guy walks into a car dealership: "Hey sir, I'm looking for a Honda, Nissan or Toyota that has power everything, is great on gas and-"
Car dealer: "Stop right there buddy, check THIS out!"
Guy: :what:"That's a Ferrari......................So anyways, about my AFFORDABLE car, not my dream car."
Car dealer: "Hey it can be affordable if you eat ramen noodles for 20 years!"

Anyhoo, I'm happy for you that you own a gun that I would never dream of purchasing on a soldier/security officer/student income. However, it would be great if you can kindly never bring it up again in this thread.

DHart
January 19, 2012, 03:20 AM
No problem. I only mentioned it because sometimes folks unexpectedly realize that they can find a way to spend more than they were originally considering. And in such cases, it's nice to at least consider some of the possible options. Life can bring unexpected surprises where we find ourselves seeing perspectives quite differently tomorrow than we did yesterday. It may surprise you, but I've seen countless folks buy a 1911 for 1k thinking that they're set... then sink another 300, 400, 500, 600 into it tweaking or modifying this and that. And the gun would never bring back what they put into it. In many of those cases, the buyers would have been much better off spending the money on the original purchase price and wind up with a better gun in the end which would retain the value of what they put into it. Double stack 1911's are uncommon beasts and many of them are probably not worth sinking money into. If you really want a quality double stack 1911 that will be reliable and retain value... you are likely to have to spend a fair bit more than 1k.

In truth, I'd steer you toward a single stack if you want to experience a true 1911. And you can do that for 1k or less.

Thanks for your service; I'd be honored to meet you.

Bobson
January 19, 2012, 03:45 AM
Why do you want stippling on the front of the trigger guard? Worthless "feature," IMO.

You don't actually grasp it with your support hand, do you? I thought that was an understood no-no.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 04:01 AM
I appreciate your advise and compliment but I simply can't be happy with a single-digit capacity out of ANY firearm, even John Browning's 1911. Everything I like is hi-cap and "tactical". But let's say......Colt, for example, made one. I'd buy it! I'm not one of these guys who's close-minded to any brand or style, so long as it's got good reviews and all. I think it's foolish and ignorant to think that way but that's just me. *COUGH! *HK OWNERS* COUGH!!!* COUGH!! * sorry I had something in my throat. :rolleyes:

The original reason for stating that it needs to be under $1000 is because, like many "toys", I may bend on the price a lil should I be truly impressed. If somebody points one out that's close but doesn't have the upgraded trigger and hammer, for example, I can live with that and get them myself later since they're not really THAT much extra if I do some research and hunting online.

Now if I said that I would pay up to $2000 then yes, I'd basically be able to build a gun from any one of a few reputable sites out there. I've seen quite a few 1911s that are in my opinion the proverbial Ferrari's that I used in my analogy. Very nice, but not for me.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 04:04 AM
Why do you want stippling on the front of the trigger guard? Worthless "feature," IMO.

You don't actually grasp it with your support hand, do you? I thought that was an understood no-no.
Typically I've seen the stippling come on both. It's not like I grip it there, no. I thought gun makers did this for aesthetics because when you look at it from the front you see the trigger guard and front strap.

DHart
January 19, 2012, 04:11 AM
I totally understand your desire for more than single-digit capacity in a defense gun!

Though I have a really cool Springfield 1911 double stack .45, my "go-to" double stack .45 preference for serious duty is either of these...
stone reliable, surgically accurate, durable, affordable.

No, they won't scratch your 1911 itch, but they sure do scratch the double stack .45 itch.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Glocks/45ACPDefenseTeam.jpg

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 04:18 AM
Don't get me wrong, my G19 is great and I love her, but should I (who am I kidding, WHEN I) end up getting another polymer, a whooooooole new thread will be posted but it probably won't be a Glock. That's actually a much easier choice since it's been discussed more than Tim Tebow in all the forums I'm on. Let's keep this thread on topic otherwise you know what's gonna happen.:cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss: It's bad enough that you threw up a non-1911 pic......BUT THE DREDDED BLOCK! DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNNNN LMAO

JTQ
January 19, 2012, 08:36 AM
Your requirements are a tough fill for a 1911. Double stacks are not common, rails didn't really appear on them until about 5 years ago, OD green and flat dark earth are not common colors for 1911's, and practically nobody stipples a 1911 front strap.

You used a car analogy earlier. It's as if you are asking for a Honda with a V8, four wheel drive, chrome bumpers, 20 inch tires, and a convertible for less than $25,000. There probably has been, at some time, a Honda with each of those features, but not all at once on the same car, and not for that price.

If you want polymer, the Bul M-5 may come close. Kimber used to import them, and I thought Magnum Research was carrying them, but I couldn't find them on their site. You may be able find out who does have them through Bul.

http://bultransmark.net/BULM5Government.htm

bds
January 19, 2012, 09:00 AM
21Bravo, I was in similar dilemma and also "tactically" oriented. After some thought and market search, I realized that a "no compromise" and "reasonable/affordable" solution was to purchase 2 pistols:

Sig 1911 Railed TacPac $850: Stainless frame/slide with match barrel/trigger, black Nitron finish, checkered front strap, compact laser, etc.
S&W M&P45 $535: Stainless slide/barrel, black Melonite hardened slide/barrel, double-stack coated stainless magazine, adjustable back strap, 4 lb trigger job, etc.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=157182&stc=1&d=1326977991

jimbo555
January 19, 2012, 09:21 AM
Rock island has a double stack 1911 for about 450.00,which leaves some room for improvements.

Zach S
January 19, 2012, 10:17 AM
If you want polymer, the Bul M-5 may come close.
No light rail. I purchased the Wilson light rail for the KZ45 many years ago, but it took so much work to try to make it fit that I lost interest. If I did complete it, I would have had to rely on hope for holster options (that's where I order a holster, and hope it worked).

Mine was my first "new" pistol. And while I still own and shoot it, the appeal of the double-stack magazine quickly wore off. The other seven 1911s I've owned are single stack, along with the one's I've considered purchasing.

A widebody 1911 with a light rail would be great for a duty pistol. However, I'm not in uniform, and concealment is more important than capacity.

As for what you want in a 1911, it will change with ownership and use.

TwoWheelFiend
January 19, 2012, 10:46 AM
IMO with most those "features" it is no longer a 1911.

Zach S
January 19, 2012, 11:02 AM
I disagree. That's like saying the L31 Vortec isn't a first generation small Chevy.

Anyone who can tear down and reassemble a 265 from 1955 can do the same to an L31. And anyone familiar with the 1911 can do the same with a single-action widebody.

wditto
January 19, 2012, 11:29 AM
ditto on the RIA

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 11:34 AM
Your requirements are a tough fill for a 1911. Double stacks are not common, rails didn't really appear on them until about 5 years ago, OD green and flat dark earth are not common colors for 1911's, and practically nobody stipples a 1911 front strap.

You used a car analogy earlier. It's as if you are asking for a Honda with a V8, four wheel drive, chrome bumpers, 20 inch tires, and a convertible for less than $25,000. There probably has been, at some time, a Honda with each of those features, but not all at once on the same car, and not for that price.

If you want polymer, the Bul M-5 may come close. Kimber used to import them, and I thought Magnum Research was carrying them, but I couldn't find them on their site. You may be able find out who does have them through Bul.

http://bultransmark.net/BULM5Government.htm
Understood, thanks for your feedback. Since the 1911 design has been adapted and tinkered with so many times, I figured somebody would have made a decked out line with relatively simple mods. Back to the analogy, the Honda you speak of is called a civic and fits all that criteria simultaneously right from the dealership.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 11:47 AM
21Bravo, I was in similar dilemma and also "tactically" oriented. After some thought and market search, I realized that a "no compromise" and "reasonable/affordable" solution was to purchase 2 pistols:

Sig 1911 Railed TacPac $850: Stainless frame/slide with match barrel/trigger, black Nitron finish, checkered front strap, compact laser, etc.
S&W M&P45 $535: Stainless slide/barrel, black Melonite hardened slide/barrel, double-stack coated stainless magazine, adjustable back strap, 4 lb trigger job, etc.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=157182&stc=1&d=1326977991
That's a $1400 total and when the time comes, I'll give the M&P a hard look. Always liked it, BUT I'm really not in the market for both those guns; it's really an either or situation. As far as the Sig goes, it's not a double stack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bozwell
January 19, 2012, 11:53 AM
Not sure what Hondas you're talking about, but Civics don't fit any of the listed criteria. Anyways, the Para 14-45 (http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_pistol.php?id=92) looks to have most of the requested features for just over 1k. If you really want a dual tone gun, you can just Cerakote it down the road.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 11:54 AM
Rock island has a double stack 1911 for about 450.00,which leaves some room for improvements.
Yes it does. Like I said, I've look at RIA already and it doesn't come like that stock. As far as I know, you would have to add EVERYTHING on which then negates the stipulation that I'd like to buy one stock. Which is exactly why I started this thread: so I can avoid doing that if possible. Think about it. I said I considered RIA, Para, SA& Taurus among others so that must include the one you're talking about which yes, is a double stack with none of the above.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 11:56 AM
No light rail. I purchased the Wilson light rail for the KZ45 many years ago, but it took so much work to try to make it fit that I lost interest. If I did complete it, I would have had to rely on hope for holster options (that's where I order a holster, and hope it worked).

Mine was my first "new" pistol. And while I still own and shoot it, the appeal of the double-stack magazine quickly wore off. The other seven 1911s I've owned are single stack, along with the one's I've considered purchasing.

A widebody 1911 with a light rail would be great for a duty pistol. However, I'm not in uniform, and concealment is more important than capacity.

As for what you want in a 1911, it will change with ownership and use.
Thanks for your feedback sir. The gun would be for home defense and range fun.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 12:04 PM
IMO with most those "features" it is no longer a 1911.
Well in my opinion, you're wrong, since a 1911 is simply a design. No different than saying "Well you can't call it an AK any more since you put a foregrip, folding stock and 100 rounds drum on it." While I can understand where you're coming from, I gotta say I find it to be as close-minded as possible about the firearm at hand. Just because NFL players now a days wear fancy gloves, cleats and uniforms, it doesn't mean they're not playing football since Jim Thorpe used to wear a leather "helmet" and no pads.
Things that have been around a long time and have been popularized get upgraded due to that popularity along with innovation. Doesn't detract from the thing in question, except to the few who refuse to grow along with the times.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 12:07 PM
I disagree. That's like saying the L31 Vortec isn't a first generation small Chevy.

Anyone who can tear down and reassemble a 265 from 1955 can do the same to an L31. And anyone familiar with the 1911 can do the same with a single-action widebody.
Which negates the point: to buy one from the factory and not having to do that. Some of us can take things apart and put them together, but happen to work a full time and a part time job along with going to college full time and don't have the time or equipment to make all those adjustments. Make sense?

The Red Hot Rider
January 19, 2012, 12:10 PM
IMO with most those "features" it is no longer a 1911.
+1

If you want all that stuff, then you're not looking at a 1911 anymore. It's like asking for a 1957 Bel Air with overdrive, turbo, fuel injection, CD/MP3 player, and built-in GPS. But that's just my $.02.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 12:17 PM
Not sure what Hondas you're talking about, but Civics don't fit any of the listed criteria. Anyways, the Para 14-45 (http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_pistol.php?id=92) looks to have most of the requested features for just over 1k. If you really want a dual tone gun, you can just Cerakote it down the road.
Yes sir, I have that one bookmared as well BUT it's already $300 over and that's BEFORE you mess with the paint job and stippling on the front strap.
Back to the car analogy, since it's just funny. I was being sarcastic because as far as I know, there has never been a company that put all those things on because it makes no sense to do so. However it does make sense for them to be on a 1911 and it's been done quite a bit, if you're willing to spend the money. I kinda think the way you threw that out there was a bit far fetched considering the wide array of 1911s out there with tons of mods. The 1911 market has developed so far beyond that old, basic 1911 and that's why I was hoping to get some direction on somewhere to look. Your comparison is like I said "I want a 1911 that's gold-plated, full auto, with a built in scope for a grand" but we both know what I am looking for really isn't that out of the ordinary. Just probably need to keep looking or waiting and I'll find one.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 12:19 PM
+1

If you want all that stuff, then you're not looking at a 1911 anymore. It's like asking for a 1957 Bel Air with overdrive, turbo, fuel injection, CD/MP3 player, and built-in GPS. But that's just my $.02.
And I respect your opinion, however I addressed that a couple posts down and disagree. Now if you happen to know of a gun, which "resembles a 1911" along the lines of what I'm looking for, I'd be happy to hear all about it. If not, I understand where you're coming from and respectfully disagree sir.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 12:25 PM
Your requirements are a tough fill for a 1911. Double stacks are not common, rails didn't really appear on them until about 5 years ago, OD green and flat dark earth are not common colors for 1911's, and practically nobody stipples a 1911 front strap.

You used a car analogy earlier. It's as if you are asking for a Honda with a V8, four wheel drive, chrome bumpers, 20 inch tires, and a convertible for less than $25,000. There probably has been, at some time, a Honda with each of those features, but not all at once on the same car, and not for that price.

If you want polymer, the Bul M-5 may come close. Kimber used to import them, and I thought Magnum Research was carrying them, but I couldn't find them on their site. You may be able find out who does have them through Bul.

http://bultransmark.net/BULM5Government.htm
Oh, I totally, forgot...the Bul has been looked at and is a fine firearm, but doesn't have a tac rail.

Bozwell
January 19, 2012, 12:26 PM
Well, keep in mind that's MSRP. Shop around and you may be able to beat that price. Stipling and the paint job can always be added later down the road. For that matter, the all black gun has more of a "tacticool" look anyways. ;)

Fact of the matter is though, you're pretty limited in your selection due to the double stack requirement. There just aren't a lot of manufacturers out there making double stacks, probably because a large segment of the market doesn't consider double stacks to be "real" 1911s (as evident from the past few posts, haha). Given that, I'd say your best bet is to get as close as you can to what you want in the initial purchase and then have a smith add any additional features you want to the gun.

DHart
January 19, 2012, 12:34 PM
21Bravo... with all the requirements you insist upon, you've specified yourself into a pretty tight bind... possibly a bit too tight for your reality.

Aside the 1911 design for a moment, let's focus on your stated application and needs... double stack .45 for home defense use and casual shooting. From that standpoint, you've got some awesome modern design choices which meet those needs, readily available, and far under your budget. I like the G21SF myself with it's 14 round capacity. But the grip is a little large for those with smaller hands. I also like the M&P45 a lot, aside from the relatively low 11 round capacity. Perhaps you could go that route for now while you save up for an STI Edge down the road?

Good luck with your endeavor.

Rail Driver
January 19, 2012, 12:35 PM
I'd just like to add that I promise you will be displeased with the results if you go out and buy a ~$1000 gun and slap in a drop in trigger and hammer.

"drop in" parts on 1911s of any flavor are a very sloppy "fit", and most are undersized for the application. I don't know how many times I've had someone come to me showing me their brand new XXXX 1911 that they "upgraded" with some new parts but it just doesn't work right. Drop in triggers slop around in the frame. Drop in hammers don't interact with the stock disconnector and sear consistently or predictably. Drop in grip safeties leave gaps at the frame tangs that can pinch the web of your hand.

In my personal experience, double stack 1911s have feed issues unless you find a combination of ammo and mags that your gun likes. It helps if you reload.

That said, from what you've said you want, you're looking for a full house custom gun for the cost of the parts... There's a lot of work that goes into getting such a mutated beast (:evil:) to run properly, and drop in upgrades can cause all kinds of trouble. If you DO get something with plans to upgrade it, don't do it yourself unless you for sure know what you're doing.

1911tuner on here is the guy you want to talk to, but I still SERIOUSLY doubt you're going to find exactly what you want in a production gun, especially for around or under $1k

JTQ
January 19, 2012, 12:37 PM
21Bravo wrote,
we both know what I am looking for really isn't that out of the ordinary.
I disagree.

Two days and 32 posts in, and nobody has recommended something that fits your requirements. I'm quite sure what you are looking for is pretty far out of the ordinary for a 1911.

I'm not saying somebody isn't going to find something for you, but your expectations for what you can find on a 1911 and for what price are out of the ordinary.

AC1911
January 19, 2012, 12:47 PM
Here's the Para Black Ops for $1,011: http://grabagun.com/para-usa-blk-ops-45acp-5-14rd-blk-ns.html

mavracer
January 19, 2012, 01:08 PM
because I feel like somehow I've overlooked one.
Nope you haven't.
Your either going to have to spend more money, do without some of the features you want, add the features yourself or have them done.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 01:09 PM
Well, keep in mind that's MSRP. Shop around and you may be able to beat that price. Stipling and the paint job can always be added later down the road. For that matter, the all black gun has more of a "tacticool" look anyways. ;)

Fact of the matter is though, you're pretty limited in your selection due to the double stack requirement. There just aren't a lot of manufacturers out there making double stacks, probably because a large segment of the market doesn't consider double stacks to be "real" 1911s (as evident from the past few posts, haha). Given that, I'd say your best bet is to get as close as you can to what you want in the initial purchase and then have a smith add any additional features you want to the gun.
Thanks man, I appreciate it and that what I might end up doing should my search come up fruitless.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 01:10 PM
double post

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 01:12 PM
Nope you haven't.
Your either going to have to spend more money, do without some of the features you want, add the features yourself or have them done.
Roger that.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 01:14 PM
I disagree.

Two days and 32 posts in, and nobody has recommended something that fits your requirements. I'm quite sure what you are looking for is pretty far out of the ordinary for a 1911.

I'm not saying somebody isn't going to find something for you, but your expectations for what you can find on a 1911 and for what price are out of the ordinary.
Two days and 32 posts?????? BAAHAHAHAHAHAH Sir, I've been on a lot of forums for a lot of years, not as many or as long as quite a few people, I'm sure...32 posts and 2 days is nothing.:neener:

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 01:17 PM
21Bravo... with all the requirements you insist upon, you've specified yourself into a pretty tight bind... possibly a bit too tight for your reality.

Aside the 1911 design for a moment, let's focus on your stated application and needs... double stack .45 for home defense use and casual shooting. From that standpoint, you've got some awesome modern design choices which meet those needs, readily available, and far under your budget. I like the G21SF myself with it's 14 round capacity. But the grip is a little large for those with smaller hands. I also like the M&P45 a lot, aside from the relatively low 11 round capacity. Perhaps you could go that route for now while you save up for an STI Edge down the road?

Good luck with your endeavor.
I hear ya and that's why I bring my question to the forum: to hear from y'all. I do want a 1911, however, not a Glock. I already have one and it's almost perfect. Did the lil mods myself.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 01:18 PM
I'd just like to add that I promise you will be displeased with the results if you go out and buy a ~$1000 gun and slap in a drop in trigger and hammer.

"drop in" parts on 1911s of any flavor are a very sloppy "fit", and most are undersized for the application. I don't know how many times I've had someone come to me showing me their brand new XXXX 1911 that they "upgraded" with some new parts but it just doesn't work right. Drop in triggers slop around in the frame. Drop in hammers don't interact with the stock disconnector and sear consistently or predictably. Drop in grip safeties leave gaps at the frame tangs that can pinch the web of your hand.

In my personal experience, double stack 1911s have feed issues unless you find a combination of ammo and mags that your gun likes. It helps if you reload.

That said, from what you've said you want, you're looking for a full house custom gun for the cost of the parts... There's a lot of work that goes into getting such a mutated beast (:evil:) to run properly, and drop in upgrades can cause all kinds of trouble. If you DO get something with plans to upgrade it, don't do it yourself unless you for sure know what you're doing.

1911tuner on here is the guy you want to talk to, but I still SERIOUSLY doubt you're going to find exactly what you want in a production gun, especially for around or under $1k
Thanks so much for your thoughts. I'm not looking to mod a 1911. I want it out of the box that way.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 01:19 PM
Here's the Para Black Ops for $1,011: http://grabagun.com/para-usa-blk-ops-45acp-5-14rd-blk-ns.html
WOW I've never seen it that cheap! Def gonna bookmark that page. THANKS!

tuj
January 19, 2012, 01:26 PM
Why do you want stippling on the front of the trigger guard? Worthless "feature," IMO.

You don't actually grasp it with your support hand, do you? I thought that was an understood no-no.

There is a technique that uses the support hand index finger in front of the trigger guard. The Beretta 92F was modified to incorporate a curvature in front of the trigger guard to allow this technique.

As for the OP's question, +1 go with STI if those are the things you want. STI builds some good double-stacks.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 01:27 PM
There is a technique that uses the support hand index finger in front of the trigger guard. The Beretta 92F was modified to incorporate a curvature in front of the trigger guard to allow this technique.

As for the OP's question, +1 go with STI if those are the things you want. STI builds some good double-stacks.
STI makes one heck of a double stack but they're so far outta my price range they're a no go. Thanks though!

DHart
January 19, 2012, 02:01 PM
The Para models haven't exactly enjoyed a wonderful reputation for quality, nor reliability, over the years, and I'm not sure what the move from Canada to the USA has done for that. If you choose a Para (true with any gun, of course) you'll want to make sure you do exhaustive reliability testing before bringing the gun into your defense rotation. 1911's in general and especially double stack 1911's can be prone to finickiness with regard to magazines, mag springs, ammo brands & bullet profiles, extractor tension. I love 1911's, have or have had about 30 different models of them, and have had quite a few years of working with and tweaking them. That said, my go-to defense guns are not 1911's, primarily because I prefer carrying higher capacity defense weapons.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 02:10 PM
The Para models haven't exactly enjoyed a wonderful reputation for quality, nor reliability, over the years, and I'm not sure what the move from Canada to the USA has done for that. If you choose a Para (true with any gun, of course) you'll want to make sure you do exhaustive reliability testing before bringing the gun into your defense rotation. 1911's in general and especially double stack 1911's can be prone to finickiness with regard to magazines, mag springs, ammo brands & bullet profiles, extractor tension. I love 1911's, have or have had about 30 different models of them, and have had quite a few years of working with and tweaking them. That said, my go-to defense guns are not 1911's, primarily because I prefer carrying higher capacity defense weapons.
I truly thank you for your post. From my understanding, Paras are a bit overpriced for the quality, as you said, and that's why I'm either hoping to get one on sale or to hear another suggestion entirely for a 1911 (STYLE) pistol. I've done my homework over the last year or so as far as mags, springs and ammo goes, but I'll add extractor tension to my assignment. Thanks again!

Jim Watson
January 19, 2012, 02:43 PM
I agree with JTQ and mavracer.
You have fallen victim to the common Internet Delusion of "I want it and therefore they must make it, and cheap, too." Well, they don't have to make a gun to your tastes. And apparently they don't. You've looked, we've looked (Well, I haven't because one or another poster has already checked all the catalogs and www sites I know of.) and it isn't there.

I think you have three choices:
Pay more.
Get less.
Do some very carefully chosen work on an existing model. I have a FLG that could make a plain vanilla $450 RIA come in at your budget but his type is not common.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 02:52 PM
I agree with JTQ and mavracer.
You have fallen victim to the common Internet Delusion of "I want it and therefore they must make it, and cheap, too." Well, they don't have to make a gun to your tastes. And apparently they don't. You've looked, we've looked (Well, I haven't because one or another poster has already checked all the catalogs and www sites I know of.) and it isn't there.

I think you have three choices:
Pay more.
Get less.
Do some very carefully chosen work on an existing model. I have a FLG that could make a plain vanilla $450 RIA come in at your budget but his type is not common.
You're right.

DHart
January 19, 2012, 03:48 PM
21Bravo... just for interest sake regarding 1911 double stacks.. this gun started out as a Springfield GI Hi-Cap. I think I paid about $550 for it. new. Then I sent it to John Harrison where we did a lot of upgrades to internal components, mods, and finally re-finished with IonBond. Now I probably have a little more than $2k into it, which I know you don't want to do. However, one possibility for you might be to acquire an SA GI Hi-cap and do some mods to it.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Springfield%201911s/SAHiCap_lft.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Springfield%201911s/SAHiCap_rt.jpg

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 03:54 PM
http://www.armoryblog.com/firearms/hand-guns/rock-island-double-stack-tactical-1911/comment-page-1/


PLEASE GO AHEAD AND SAY SOMETHING NOW HATERS!:neener:

Rail Driver
January 19, 2012, 04:03 PM
http://www.armoryblog.com/firearms/hand-guns/rock-island-double-stack-tactical-1911/comment-page-1/


PLEASE GO AHEAD AND SAY SOMETHING NOW HATERS!:neener:
First: your comment is FAR from "high road" material.

Second: The gun isn't available yet. It "may be released in the next few months".

Third: It's a Rock Island. I haven't met one yet that didn't need work out of the box. They're not bad pistols, I've owned a few and currently own one now. But they need work on fitting and reliability before they're suited to carry or competition.

Fourth: It doesn't have frontstrap checkering, it won't ship with night sights, it's not two-tone (though they'll probably release a two-tone version after the initial release of the gun).

Basically, you've "settled" for a cheaper gun, without all the features you asked for, after not finding exactly what you want.

Several people have showed examples much closer to what you were looking for than that Rock Island, if you ignore price.

nonamehavei
January 19, 2012, 04:15 PM
Ok, somethin now haters!:neener: makes about as much sense as asking for help on 4 different internet forums and getting upset when they try to help you. JMHO

Auto426
January 19, 2012, 04:16 PM
Sounds to me like the OP isn't actually interested in a 1911. From that list of features, it seems that he would be better served by something like an HK45 or a Sig 220 variant.

That, or buy a standard 1911 with a rail and get some 10 round magazines.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 04:23 PM
First: your comment is FAR from "high road" material.

Second: The gun isn't available yet. It "may be released in the next few months".

Third: It's a Rock Island. I haven't met one yet that didn't need work out of the box. They're not bad pistols, I've owned a few and currently own one now. But they need work on fitting and reliability before they're suited to carry or competition.

Fourth: It doesn't have frontstrap checkering, it won't ship with night sights, it's not two-tone (though they'll probably release a two-tone version after the initial release of the gun).

Basically, you've "settled" for a cheaper gun, without all the features you asked for, after not finding exactly what you want.

Several people have showed examples much closer to what you were looking for than that Rock Island, if you ignore price.
Wow.

First: I've read on this forum several hours a day, several days a week since 2008 and I don't need a lecture from you. I didn't use any foul language and didn't insult anybody, regardless of the snobby remarks by elitist 1911 owners (possibly only 2nd to HK owners) so relax and it'll be ok.

Second: You're stating the obvious, which is fine, but I wouldn't post something obvious without knowing it myself would I?

Third, not only are rocks highly regarded as among the best cheap 1911s out there, but I've personally had the pleasure of shooting one at the range and I liked it. Apparently you live next to a giant sign that says "BRING YOUR TINKERED WITH 1911 RIA's HERE TO BE FIXED BY A PROFESSIONAL SINCE YOU MESSED IT UP"

Fourth: actually it DOES have a few grippy lines on the strap as you can see in the picture so that's better than nothing and it has ample rear grips as well which is a bonus. NOTHING WHATSOEVER is said about the sights but if you'd like to enlighten me, please do. From what I can see the sights are clearly a step up from fixed crap GI sights. And like I've heard from literally everybody, getting 2 tone is practically out of the question and I accept that.

Basically I've found what I'm looking for without settling without settling for one of the examples several other people have showed, the majority of which I already covered in the OP and your caveat "if you ignore price" is literally the worst possible way to help someone who is looking for a budget firearm.

Are we done here?

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 04:24 PM
Ok, somethin now haters!:neener: makes about as much sense as asking for help on 4 different internet forums and getting upset when they try to help you. JMHO
Please post where I got upset and I posted on about 10 forums, FYI, which is the reason I found my answer. Seriously, I'd love to see the post where I got upset.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 04:26 PM
Sounds to me like the OP isn't actually interested in a 1911. From that list of features, it seems that he would be better served by something like an HK45 or a Sig 220 variant.

That, or buy a standard 1911 with a rail and get some 10 round magazines.
While I almost went with an HK45 I actually decided against it do to the fact that it's not a 1911 style gun so at the end of the day it really won't have what I want. The Sig isn't something I want, however.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 04:27 PM
21Bravo... just for interest sake regarding 1911 double stacks.. this gun started out as a Springfield GI Hi-Cap. I think I paid about $550 for it. new. Then I sent it to John Harrison where we did a lot of upgrades to internal components, mods, and finally re-finished with IonBond. Now I probably have a little more than $2k into it, which I know you don't want to do. However, one possibility for you might be to acquire an SA GI Hi-cap and do some mods to it.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Springfield%201911s/SAHiCap_lft.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Springfield%201911s/SAHiCap_rt.jpg
That is one of the most beautiful pistols I've ever seen, hands down.

Rail Driver
January 19, 2012, 04:45 PM
Wow.

First: I've read on this forum several hours a day, several days a week since 2008 and I don't need a lecture from you. I didn't use any foul language and didn't insult anybody, regardless of the snobby remarks by elitist 1911 owners (possibly only 2nd to HK owners) so relax and it'll be ok.

Your comments in this thread to people trying to help have been pretty rude and offensive if you ask me. You're right, you don't need a lecture from me... You needed a lecture from your parents when you were a child, to prevent rude behavior. It's obviously too late for that.

Second: You're stating the obvious, which is fine, but I wouldn't post something obvious without knowing it myself would I?
It's not available, hence it's not a current option. Obvious or not, you didn't mention that it isn't available, so I thought I'd let you know in case you missed that one line down at the bottom of the page.

Third, not only are rocks highly regarded as among the best cheap 1911s out there, but I've personally had the pleasure of shooting one at the range and I liked it. Apparently you live next to a giant sign that says "BRING YOUR TINKERED WITH 1911 RIA's HERE TO BE FIXED BY A PROFESSIONAL SINCE YOU MESSED IT UP"

Sure they're highly regarded. I never knocked the guns. If you re-read my post a little slower, you'll see that I stated "they're not bad pistols, they just need work". The first RIA 1911 I bought came to me from the factory with extractor and ejector issues. The second one I bought came from the factory with a loose rear sight and slide/frame fit issues. The third one I bought wouldn't feed with the supplied magazine. The one I currently own runs very well, however I got it used and it had already been brought up to carry condition. In the interest of full disclosure, I'm not a professional gunsmith and I don't do this as a job, I do most of my own gunsmithing work and on my own guns - My statement was in regards to new in the box Rock Island Armory guns, not bubba'd, tinkered or otherwise modified firearms. Aside from my own RIA 1911s, I've handled and fired dozens of examples of RIA 1911s, both new unmodified guns and "tinkered" guns ... Not just one at a range one time. I've NEVER seen a new, unmodified Rock Island Armory 1911 that didn't need at least minor tweaking to get it into carry or competition ready status. Your assumptions are amusing, however.

Fourth: actually it DOES have a few grippy lines on the strap as you can see in the picture so that's better than nothing and it has ample rear grips as well which is a bonus. NOTHING WHATSOEVER is said about the sights but if you'd like to enlighten me, please do. From what I can see the sights are clearly a step up from fixed crap GI sights. And like I've heard from literally everybody, getting 2 tone is practically out of the question and I accept that.

Rock Island Armory doesn't ship ANY guns that I'm aware of, with night sights. The sights on the gun in the pictures from your link are novak sights, the same as came on two of the pistols I bought. There are 'grippy lines' on the front strap of the gun in question (as can easily be seen in the images from your link) (Edit to add, there are actually some faint vertical lines that were obscured by the shadow in the picture, I apologize for missing them.)

http://www.armoryblog.com/wp-content/gallery/shot-show-2012-media-range-day/shot-show-2012-media-range-day-rock-island-double-stack-1911-magwell.jpg http://www.armoryblog.com/wp-content/gallery/shot-show-2012-media-range-day/shot-show-2012-media-range-day-rock-island-double-stack-1911-45acp.jpg

Basically I've found what I'm looking for without settling without settling for one of the examples several other people have showed, the majority of which I already covered in the OP and your caveat "if you ignore price" is literally the worst possible way to help someone who is looking for a budget firearm.

If that's what you want to call it, that's what you call it. Personally I don't consider "Under $1000" to be a budget gun. If you wanted a budget gun and not a full or semi-custom gun, then you need to realize that some of the features you were looking for simply won't be found, and your "find" does nothing but confirm that since half of your "required features" don't exist on the gun you settled on.

Are we done here?

I believe so.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 05:05 PM
If anyone has read all my posts, I don't think I need to defend what I said. I don't believe in going back and forth all day to argue with random people on the internet so I'm done replying to certain individuals who got all butt hurt. I know that from the first comment on, I've been respectful and that's a fact: look at the verbiage I used, patience I showed with people constantly repeating the same things that I went over in my OP and the praise I've given to those actually trying to steer me towards a 1911 style gun that's double stacked, with night sights, tac rail, upgraded trigger and hammer, in 2 tone, with stippling.

I actually reread every single post prior to writing this because we all make mistakes and I'm not immune to doing so. Perhaps I was overly blunt or short at some point so if that's the case and people got all teary eyed and huffy, I am so sorry. Being a little blunt or callous tends to happen when you're a man with a military background, kinda makes you that way.

Out of all the places I posted this, only here & glocktalk have been the places where people have actually tried to make me look bad. I'd say a lil ribbing about JMB rolling in his grave is in order w=for my kind of thread, but starting the whole flame-behavior? Not cool and I'm done responding to those kind of people and their posts. Every other site has had an overwhelming ratio of positive, helpful people. What are people going to think when they google something in a month, a year, 10 years and are lead to this thread and read all the responses?

nonamehavei
January 19, 2012, 05:24 PM
You seem sensative, sorry didn't mean to hurt you feelings, just read this same post on 4 different internet forums I frequent and your responses to some people offering good advice you didn't want to hear seemed a little terse.

cor_man257
January 19, 2012, 07:39 PM
I'm a man with military background. Its no excuse for lack of manors.

You have never swore, but that certainly doesn't mean your posts have been high road. They have been rude and terse with those who were attempting to help you. Smack talking the high road wont get you any further help from its members either.

The things you asked for in a firearm were unreasonable given the price limit. Your unhappy with that. Well the world isnt all peaches. And you DID settle. Because the link you posted doesnt contain all the features you want. And its not even avalible yet.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 08:00 PM
I'm a man with military background. Its no excuse for lack of manors.

You have never swore, but that certainly doesn't mean your posts have been high road. They have been rude and terse with those who were attempting to help you. Smack talking the high road wont get you any further help from its members either.

The things you asked for in a firearm were unreasonable given the price limit. Your unhappy with that. Well the world isnt all peaches. And you DID settle. Because the link you posted doesnt contain all the features you want. And its not even avalible yet.
Show me where I was rude.

Sauer Grapes
January 19, 2012, 08:01 PM
Lok for a "new" double stack model to come out of RIA very soon. Don't know what it's got on it, but I've heard it's coming out very soon.
If I wanted a DS 1911, I think it would be a STI. No, they aren't a $1000, but there ya go anyway.
Consider it a lifetime investment....;)

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 08:06 PM
Lok for a "new" double stack model to come out of RIA very soon. Don't know what it's got on it, but I've heard it's coming out very soon.
If I wanted a DS 1911, I think it would be a STI. No, they aren't a $1000, but there ya go anyway.
Consider it a lifetime investment....;)
I think I'd end up saving for an STI over a Para based on what you and others have said about them. Gotta at least put rounds downrange before I simply buy one though and there's the hard part. Maybe I'll run into a guy at the range who has one. That's happened with some very cool guns with matching owners.
I can wait a lil bit for a gun to come out that's basically a prototype, that's not a problem. I posted a link for the newest I've seen (apparently yesterday!)

cor_man257
January 19, 2012, 08:15 PM
Anyhoo, I'm happy for you that you own a gun that I would never dream of purchasing on a soldier/security officer/student income. However, it would be great if you can kindly never bring it up again in this thread.

Rude. You could have said what you did alot better.

As far as the Sig goes, it's not a double stack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Once again, someone tried to suggest something, and instead of kindly saying thanks but it isnt what im looking for you were rude.

This is just the first page.

hercster
January 19, 2012, 09:05 PM
It's not a 1911 but it covers most of your grocery list.

Look at the FNP -45 in either the Tactical or Competition configuration. They are essentially the same gun but with different sights and an extended and threaded barrel on the Tac.

You will get 15 + 1 rounds of 45 ACP in a very capable gun for under your $1000 target. I bought the Competition and then did modifications to make it the same as the Tac with the exception of the barrel. I did this to take advantage of the premilled slide that takes a a Trijicon RMR or similar red dot sight which when mounted co witnesses with the tactical sights. I love this arrangement!!

I'm very happy with the FNP even though it was purchased as a stop gap while I wait for a SIG Legend. I'm comparing the FN with a custom 1911 and a very well configued and tuned SIG X-five.

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 10:03 PM
Rude. You could have said what you did alot better.



Once again, someone tried to suggest something, and instead of kindly saying thanks but it isnt what im looking for you were rude.

This is just the first page.
The gentleman suggested a gun that runs closer to NEARLY TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS and another gentleman suggested TWO guns lol. Really? I'm asking about a 1911 style pistol on a budget and I get an STI and an M&P/Sig combo? :rolleyes: My responses were appropriate. Had they not been, those guys would have given me an earful, deservedly.
If you read the entire post, not just picked out a line, you'll see I clearly was polite prior to pointing out how out of scope the suggestions were. It started by me writing this "Um.......no, no thank you. I knew there would be somebody who would completely disregard the price, just didn't think it would be literally over 100% higher." and then we had our lil car analogy joking going back and forth. It's RIGHT there and you've read it at least twice.

If I really wanted to be rude, which I haven't been but you're trying to push me because you have nothing better to do, I'd have said something like "Do you know what simple instruction are? It's very easy to do. Learn to read and don't suggest something stupid like a freakin race gun for a guy trying to buy a gun on a budget!!!!" as one of my coworkers said when I showed several of them this thread. Perhaps there's something lost via the internet but when I've talked to shop owners and shooters alike I usually hear the same thing "There's gotta be something out there that's not too expensive". I don't get crap like you're giving me SO BACK OFF!

Dhart seems like a cool guy and him and I went back and fourth a few times having a civil discussion. If the guy was offended he certainly wouldn't have said all the things he did, but here you come trying to kick up dirt like so many internet forum nazis before you. You're really splitting hairs if you think that I'm rude because I'm pointing out that gun after gun after gun that get's tossed out there are suggestions which were either already discussed in my initial post, don't have something integral to the design of the weapon like oh I don't know being a wide body double stack or having a tac rail, or are so far out of the price range that they're simply not feasible and I mean WAAAAAAY more than a couple hundred bucks like the Paras. It's almost like it's an opportunity for you and some of the other guys to say "Hey, these are my guns and I'm going to put them up on a pedestal even though they aren't what you're looking for and while I'm at it your choice sucks!"

21Bravo
January 19, 2012, 10:06 PM
It's not a 1911 but it covers most of your grocery list.

Look at the FNP -45 in either the Tactical or Competition configuration. They are essentially the same gun but with different sights and an extended and threaded barrel on the Tac.

You will get 15 + 1 rounds of 45 ACP in a very capable gun for under your $1000 target. I bought the Competition and then did modifications to make it the same as the Tac with the exception of the barrel. I did this to take advantage of the premilled slide that takes a a Trijicon RMR or similar red dot sight which when mounted co witnesses with the tactical sights. I love this arrangement!!

I'm very happy with the FNP even though it was purchased as a stop gap while I wait for a SIG Legend. I'm comparing the FN with a custom 1911 and a very well configued and tuned SIG X-five.
I love this gun. Before I decided to go with a 1911 for now, I was trying to decided between an M&P45, an XDM45 or the FNP45. I couldn't shoot any at the time so I put that one on the back burner. Another thread for another year. That's my rule, BTW: One gun a year. I allow the gun nut in me that much leeway.

Jim Watson
January 20, 2012, 12:18 AM
Hey, you can go ahead and buy your 2012 gun now and maybe the RIA will actually be on the market for 2013. How's that for optimistic planning?

21Bravo
January 20, 2012, 12:27 AM
Hey, you can go ahead and buy your 2012 gun now and maybe the RIA will actually be on the market for 2013. How's that for optimistic planning?
Great man, thanks for that.

dom1104
January 20, 2012, 09:20 AM
Folks like 21Bravo are the reason I dont sell guns anymore.

rbernie
January 20, 2012, 09:34 AM
Enough bickering, gang. If you don't like the premise or behavior in the thread - please just ignore it or report it.

21Bravo
January 20, 2012, 11:25 AM
I apologize for my part in the back and forth

rxspeed88
January 20, 2012, 11:40 AM
21bravo..... after reading this thread, i dont think that they currently make a pistol that will work for you. Either settle on a cheaper gun that you have to work a bit or ante up and pay for an sti or something like that. You get what you pay for. Cheap, fast, reliable.... choose 2.

21Bravo
January 20, 2012, 12:12 PM
21bravo..... after reading this thread, i dont think that they currently make a pistol that will work for you. Either settle on a cheaper gun that you have to work a bit or ante up and pay for an sti or something like that. You get what you pay for. Cheap, fast, reliable.... choose 2.
You are correct, sir. The new Rock is as close as I'm going to get but being that it will be under $1000, be a 1911A2/2011/double stack/widebody WHATEVER, have a tac rail, have the trigger and hammer done, have some lines on the front strap........I'll take it with a huge grin on my face. It's really as close as I'm going to get but I couldn't be happier about the maker, the look of the gun, and the features (although it's been pointed out the RIA doesn't do night sights so I'll need to upgrade those, and clearly it's not 2 tone either so I'll have to get that done. The best part is, RIA doesn't hold you upside down and shake you when you want to purchase a gun and they make very good quality firearms for the money so I should still be able to do the sights and paint job while keeping my total under a G.

21Bravo
January 20, 2012, 12:16 PM
Totally forgot to mention, the 1911forum has a thread for the 2012 ShotShow and there are a couple pix of the gun.

Fishslayer
January 20, 2012, 09:17 PM
Don't get me wrong, my G19 is great and I love her, but should I (who am I kidding, WHEN I) end up getting another polymer, a whooooooole new thread will be posted but it probably won't be a Glock.

Don't worry about it. You could ask about "Best single action .22 revolver?" & the Austrian fanboiz are gonna show up with their Koolaid...:evil:

As for you shopping list, I just don't think it's gonna happen under a grand. Even used, 1911s are red hot right now.

flatlander937
January 20, 2012, 09:56 PM
That RIA 1911 looks neat... I wonder when a realistic expectation of it shipping will be though? And reliability would be something I'd be weary of in a 1911 design(double stack 1911 in particular).

I have a 1911 myself and love them, but the Para double stack 1911 that I shot had enough malfunctions that it rubbed me the wrong way(with multiple different magazines, albeit all Para factory mags).

FWIW here is the 1911 E-zine SHOT show article... maybe you can ask the guy who was there(John) more details on the pistol since he's handled it himself?

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=98226

http://ezine.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=120
(You gotta scroll down a bit, not the first post)


I was going to suggest the FNP line as well... I will eventually be looking for a double stack handgun for home defense, and after shooting an FNP-9 I'm heavily leaning towards them... it had a reasonable trigger in DA and a quite nice SA trigger for the remaining shots.


I don't know what your trigger + safety preference is... but have you looked at the HKs? The LEM trigger is really awesome, though I haven't live-fired one... the first pull is long but smooth, then after that it has a nice and reasonably short take-up for follow-up shots. HK stuff is about as tactical(not tactiCOOL) as you can get... Not too many government/military agencies issue 1911s anymore... though that is for many different reasons.


I know you weren't asking for suggestions on anything non-1911 based... but figured I'd throw it out there since *IMO* most tactical BS is marketing hype for the people who've played too much Modern Warfare or whatever the latest and greatest video game is.

I also understand that sometimes you just want what you want because you want it... And I've been there too... so since I'm not paying for it I hope whatever you end up getting you are happy with:cool:



Also I apologize that my post is stupid long as most of mine usually are... my mind rambles on and I can type pretty fast so...:rolleyes:

jackpinesavages
January 20, 2012, 10:01 PM
Double stack 1911? That's be the STI 2011 series.

Go through Dawson Precision. Done.

21Bravo
January 20, 2012, 11:18 PM
Double stack 1911? That's be the STI 2011 series.

Go through Dawson Precision. Done.
C'mon man PLEASE READ

21Bravo
January 20, 2012, 11:24 PM
Don't worry about it. You could ask about "Best single action .22 revolver?" & the Austrian fanboiz are gonna show up with their Koolaid...:evil:

As for you shopping list, I just don't think it's gonna happen under a grand. Even used, 1911s are red hot right now.
I'm gonna get the Rock when it comes out. It has the main components I need and some of the other things I want, and should be well under $1000, giving me room to throw some night sites on there and get a paint job while still under budget. Whatever's left will go to good mags. It's as close to what i'm looking for as possible and I'm very happy that I posted my thread all over the forums I'm on because I wouldn't have found it otherwise. As has been pointed out, there is not EXACT gun for what I said I wanted. I expected that; I'd been researching for about a year and came to that conclusion prior to starting the thread. It's why I started the thread. Through the ShotShow this year and guys posting and my continued searching, I came across the new Rock.

Bozwell
January 20, 2012, 11:57 PM
That's not something I'd spend my money on but glad you found something you like. Then again, for that matter, I think I'd have a hard time trusting a double stack 1911 as a defense gun period, much less a cheaper one. To each his own though and glad you found one you like. :)

21Bravo
January 21, 2012, 12:00 AM
That RIA 1911 looks neat... I wonder when a realistic expectation of it shipping will be though? And reliability would be something I'd be weary of in a 1911 design(double stack 1911 in particular).

I have a 1911 myself and love them, but the Para double stack 1911 that I shot had enough malfunctions that it rubbed me the wrong way(with multiple different magazines, albeit all Para factory mags).

FWIW here is the 1911 E-zine SHOT show article... maybe you can ask the guy who was there(John) more details on the pistol since he's handled it himself?

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=98226

http://ezine.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=120
(You gotta scroll down a bit, not the first post)


I was going to suggest the FNP line as well... I will eventually be looking for a double stack handgun for home defense, and after shooting an FNP-9 I'm heavily leaning towards them... it had a reasonable trigger in DA and a quite nice SA trigger for the remaining shots.


I don't know what your trigger + safety preference is... but have you looked at the HKs? The LEM trigger is really awesome, though I haven't live-fired one... the first pull is long but smooth, then after that it has a nice and reasonably short take-up for follow-up shots. HK stuff is about as tactical(not tactiCOOL) as you can get... Not too many government/military agencies issue 1911s anymore... though that is for many different reasons.


I know you weren't asking for suggestions on anything non-1911 based... but figured I'd throw it out there since *IMO* most tactical BS is marketing hype for the people who've played too much Modern Warfare or whatever the latest and greatest video game is.

I also understand that sometimes you just want what you want because you want it... And I've been there too... so since I'm not paying for it I hope whatever you end up getting you are happy with:cool:



Also I apologize that my post is stupid long as most of mine usually are... my mind rambles on and I can type pretty fast so...:rolleyes:
Sir, you've got nothing to apologize for. I wish half the people out there were as helpful as you. I appreciate your suggestions and have thought about all those options already myself, as they're pretty much the logical ones considering what I'd like. However, I'm not going to stray from the 1911 style platform and get a hi-cap poly this time. Probably down the road a few years and it may be the FNP45. couldn't decide between that, the XDM45 and the MP45 when I had all 3 in front of me last year. At that point, none were available to rent and test out though so all I got was my initial impression, which was that I wanted all 3!!!!!!!

I did mention the 1911 forum thread a couple posts under yours & although that site is amazing for it's sheer depth of knowledge, it's all got it's share of know-it-alls and I did more reading than asking there due to the way I've seen them jump all over guys in the past, for essentially doing what I did: putting a wild, different idea out there and not settling when being told "you're stupid and don't know what a 1911 is". This site doesn't have very much of that and like you, there were some genuinely helpful folks who added to the discussion.

While I've heard some bad things about double stack 1911s/"2011s", I won't settle for the thought process that I just need to save up a few years and get an STI. I can't say I don't want one, they're pretty much perfect I guess. Then again, for example, somebody can tell me how amazing their Lexus is, doesn't change the fact that I like Fords and that's what my budget allows me to get lmao! Like I said in my OP, I considered ones that were around my budget, including the Paras, but I just didn't get all warm and fuzzy due to their rep. Now, that's changed a bit because I've since heard quite a few Para people speak up and tell me which ones to stay away from and I take that kind of sound advise to heart.

21Bravo
January 21, 2012, 12:02 AM
That's not something I'd spend my money on but glad you found something you like. Then again, for that matter, I think I'd have a hard time trusting a double stack 1911 as a defense gun period, much less a cheaper one. To each his own though and glad you found one you like. :)
Thanks sir, I'll do the whole pix, vid & RR ASAP........that may be in 9 months, mind you! who know's when the beast is gettin' unleashed. I'm 1st in line when it does and whatever happens, I'll let people know so that they can decide how they feel about it.

RugerNut9
April 29, 2013, 03:47 PM
I bought a Kimber Custom TLE/RL II brand new for $1025 with night sights, ambi safety and its stippled everywhere that matters! I know its more than 1k but you get what you pay for!

BRFussell
April 29, 2013, 05:55 PM
I would look seriously at the Para. There has been a big change there in quality and customer service. Travis Thomasie, from Para, frequents some of the 1911 forums and is very quick to get any problems resolved.

9mmepiphany
April 29, 2013, 06:26 PM
You guys had to revive a 16 month on post to add comments?

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