BLM Bad News?


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lizziedog1
January 23, 2012, 01:51 PM
Over the weekend not only did I get a new gun, I visited the Wild Sheep Foundation Show in Reno.

It was a show that had hunting guides and outfitters from across the country and across the globe. Several states also booths from the Fish and Game Departments. Nevada Department of Wildlife also had a booth there.

I stopped and chatted witht he Silver State folks for a few minutes. I mentioned how lucky we are in Nevada to have some public land to hunt and shoot in.

Most of Nevada is public Federal Land under the jurisdiction of BLM.

One of the agents told me that BLM is working on shutting down target shooting on their lands. Hunting would still be permitted, but target shooting and plinking will be forbidden.

Here in Nevada we would be SOL. Seventy percent of the state would be off limits to recreational shooting.

The guy had a name tag, I looked at, but I don't remember his name. I should have written it down. My memory isn't what it used to be. I'm getting close to being able to hide my own Easter Eggs.;)

I don't know if this is true or not. But I got this from an official with our game department.

Has anyone here heard of any such thing?

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NOLAEMT
January 23, 2012, 02:07 PM
I'm not suprised.

I can't count how many times I've seen improvised "ranges" that made a landfill look tidy and organized. It is sad, but many of our fellow shooters are inconsiderate slobs.

22-rimfire
January 23, 2012, 02:14 PM
This development would not surprise me. They included National Forests in my state as WMA's, where shooting is forbidden except during hunting season except on established ranges.

JohnM
January 23, 2012, 02:21 PM
It's happening everywhere.
Just last week a range that's been there forever was closed down and all recreational shooting banned on a big parcel of land just upriver from me.
I think that land was on FS but there's a mix of BLM in there too.
A bunch of out of control tree huggers have bought a lot of the private land around there and finally succeeded in getting it all shut down.
Never thought I'd live to see the day that would happen.

buck460XVR
January 23, 2012, 02:40 PM
This development would not surprise me. They included National Forests in my state as WMA's, where shooting is forbidden except during hunting season except on established ranges.


Same here, and it has nuttin' to do with tree huggers. It has to do with safety and consideration to others that recreate on public lands. Not only has gun use gotten more popular, so have other outdoor activities on public land, such as hiking, snowshoeing, cross country skiing, etc, etc, etc. Those folks have as much right to use public lands as gun owners and they deserve to be safe. Altho I know everybody here on THR is safe and conscientious when it comes to shooting their firearms, the same cannot be said of everybody. Without an approved backstop and a safe area behind said backstop, just shooting hundreds of rounds outta high powered firearms blindly in the woods with no idea of who else is there, is not a safe thing. If you've ever been bowhunting on public land when someone decides to break in their new AR at the first wide spot in the road they come to, you know what I mean. I think this is another example of how a few bad apples spoiled it for the whole box.

happyret65
January 23, 2012, 03:21 PM
BLM is the lowest end of federal law enforcement. No one wants to work with them, a crew of clowns.

lotus
January 23, 2012, 03:34 PM
It's too bad but public lands shouldn't be a trashed-out shooting pit. I'd prefer them to establish approved shooting locations as a compromise.

lizziedog1
January 23, 2012, 04:36 PM
We have some desert shooting areas out here that are full of trash. Broken bottles, shot-up television sets, you name it.

The sad part of this is the elimination of plinking areas.

Formal ranges are great. In fact, nothing beats a sturdy bench when sighting-in or load testing.

But for fun, nothing beat shooting at clumps of dirt at ridiculous distances.

I wonder if they ban target shooting if you can get away with it shooting by claiming you were hunting jackrabbits.;)

230RN
January 23, 2012, 04:49 PM
See, that's what "Under the radar' means.

I bellyached about that gradual encroachment on shooting opportunities many years ago, and of course the usual comment is about slob shooters. Ok, I used to pick up stuff when I was done, and frequently cleaning parties were formed, but for crying out loud, among umpteen million acres of land, the informal ranges where shooters leave junk around are usually tucked away, and form only a teeny part of those umpteen million acres. I first noticed this seemingly deliberate encroachment when the dot gov started declaring all kinds of areas "monuments" and "primitive areas" and "wildlife refuges" and the like, where shooting was prohibited by prior law. I think this started in Clinton's era, but specific details are blurred by time.

Not that I'm applauding slob shooters, but to close off an entire area because one small area gets junked up, is a little unreasonable.

So the only reasonable explanation seems to be, to me, a semi-deliberate gradual reduction in acceptable informal places to shoot for recreation.

Well, I don't know about you, but my radar's a-workin' real good.

Terry, 230RN

hso
January 23, 2012, 05:53 PM
Not true.

We had a thread on this in Activism and the short version is that as more public land gets more mixed use the BLM and Interior and Park Service and XYZ are having to study use and make determinations on areas safe and suitable for target shooting based on other use, proximity of borders and cultural artifacts and public use areas.

ApacheCoTodd
January 23, 2012, 06:10 PM
I've been hearing the BLM issue for a very long time now and have even heard directly from BLM (rangers-cops-whatever) uniformed officers at various times some weird interpretations of actual and proposed changes. My favorite was for years there was a misinterpretation regarding the shooting - for any reason - of any caliber currently or ever having been used by ANY military world-wide.

These few clowns at least in southern and central California would run you off for shooting .308/.223/7.62X39 and the like. They never had the courage of their convictions to put anything in writing or seize weapons but obviously - we never argued. The military caliber thing morphed into a BLM/professional-urban legend for several years.

Then there's the issue of what lands are BLM controlled, which are BLM supervised and sometimes they will interpret adjoining as an issue and there's also the insidious "checkerboard" land grabs to address accessibility issues.

I'd like to see BLM on the trashheap of history with Do's Energy and Education and have BLM replaced with a truly custodial rather than control oriented organization.

After all, the BLM along with several other governmental organizations seems to forget that the land is mine, yours and that gal's over there and does not in fact belong to a governmental entity beyond the fact that said entity should be operating on our behalves rather than in the interest of it's own consolidation and garnering of power.

medalguy
January 23, 2012, 06:11 PM
I spoke with a BLM ranger not too long ago and he said the current threat is to some land in Colorado and Arizona. He didn't know about any restrictions in Nevada but then he's in New Mexico.

I agree there are a few slob shooters who dump old TVs and other trash and then shoot the heck out of it, leaving a pile of debris that's pretty hard to clean up. The ranger I spoke with was very friendly and helpful, and offered me a handful of brown BLM trash bags if I would pick up any targets and other debris left by others. I already have my own black bags but I accepted his also.

I would encourage anyone who is lucky enough to shoot on public land, whether BLM or other, to do wnatever you can to help keep the area cleaned as well as you can. It's primarily due to the trash, and the damaging of trees and other natural objects, that these closings are even being considered. Of course always know what's behind your backstop. You DO have a backstop when you shoot on public land, right? :what:

Certaindeaf
January 23, 2012, 06:27 PM
Thank God California is 7,000 miles away from you.





































That was a joke. Make ready. Perhaps.

acdodd
January 23, 2012, 09:13 PM
They backed the truck up.

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/11/17/shooters-heard-interior-will-not-ban-target-practice

ApacheCoTodd
January 23, 2012, 09:28 PM
The statement "Our goal is to leave public lands open to shooting" says it all about their attitudes.

Leave public lands open...? To a legal activity...? Where the hell do they get off?

Anyone remember the un-enforceable forest usage passes in California?

krupparms
January 23, 2012, 09:47 PM
When I went into the service, I was given a garbage bag & told to police up! I did not smoke & didn't feel I should have to pickup butt's. But it had to be done! Same here, take trash away from your shooting area! You don't have to get it all. But take what you can. This helps us all! After all the land belongs to us! We cannot stop the Government, but we can make it harder for them! Please keep the land clean! Don't give them reasons to use against us. And always use a backstop! I see alot of shooters just shooting into the woods! Good luck, stay safe!

ApacheCoTodd
January 23, 2012, 09:58 PM
When we used to shoot in the Angeles National Forrest, without exception we would take huge amounts of crap out with us from the usual shooting areas. We felt obliged to clean before and after shooting as we never wanted anyone to think they crap around us was brought by us.

In the no good deed goes unpunished department - we were once accused of unlawful dumping for having all the trash in the truck - law dog figured we had brought it out but the names on some of the trash seriously left us outa the running for ownership. The previous morons were actually shooting their own trash that they had brought out.

medalguy
January 24, 2012, 12:19 PM
Exactly why I took the BLM trash bags, so in case I ever got stopped with a load of trash I can show the BLM marked bags. Unlikely anyone would use their bags to BRING trash out to dump it. Besides I carry the ranger's card in my "range truck" whenever I go out there.

mgmorden
January 24, 2012, 12:38 PM
This is pretty standard stuff on this side of the country - no shooting on public lands EXCEPT during an open hunting season or on one of the several specific ranges they have set aside with constructed backstops and tables and such.

IMHO, this is probably a good thing. As much of a pro-gun person as I tend to be, having people shooting at make-shift ranges without a proper backstop wherever they feel like is asking for trouble. I'm all for setting aside funds to build and maintain public ranges where people can shoot for free - but it should actually be at a RANGE, not just some random spot people feel like popping off rounds.

22-rimfire
January 24, 2012, 03:05 PM
Anyone that has tried to cleanup shot up trash learns that even if you are willing to load and transport that TV or other big item away, it is frequently unsafe as compared to handling an intact TV set with no sharp edges. You have to be prepared with the proper gloves, shovels, heavy duty trash bags, and ability to transport the stuff to a landfill (disposal which you have to pay for). I don't care much about cig butts, but I guess when you use the argument that "if a million people put out their cig here it would be a real litter problem." which is true. Again, the damage done by a few causes problems for the majority.

mgmorden
January 24, 2012, 03:17 PM
"if a million people put out their cig here it would be a real litter problem."

Well, not even being a smoker (and finding the smell of one horrendous), even I can acknowledge that a million cigarette butts primarily consisting of paper, cotton, and tobacco are very quickly going to break down into compost, whereas an equivalent mass of shot up televisions and other plastic junk will be there for many generations to come.

X-Rap
January 24, 2012, 03:30 PM
In CO there is a lot of public but it is falling to over regulation quickly. Ask anybody on the Front Range if they know of any informal shooting areas open within an hour of the big metro areas.
In the west I am not aware of such restrictions yet but I do see a lot of trashed areas and while they are a disappointment to see they are far from remediation so I still don't go along with the closures. Divert some of the community service workers or jail house laborers to those places in addition to citizens. I would also say some prosecution of those who are trashing the areas would also be effective. The LE budget for Federal Land agency's has increased greatly so give them something to do.

ApacheCoTodd
January 24, 2012, 08:26 PM
Exactly why I took the BLM trash bags, so in case I ever got stopped with a load of trash I can show the BLM marked bags. Unlikely anyone would use their bags to BRING trash out to dump it. Besides I carry the ranger's card in my "range truck" whenever I go out there.
That is an outstanding idea!

230RN
January 25, 2012, 12:13 PM
hso remarked, re

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7901593&postcount=9



Not true.

We had a thread on this in Activism and the short version is that as more public land gets more mixed use the BLM and Interior and Park Service and XYZ are having to study use and make determinations on areas safe and suitable for target shooting based on other use, proximity of borders and cultural artifacts and public use areas.



True enough from my and others' point of view. I hate to antagonize moderators, but...

It is only now that shooters have again become aware of the problem and starting squawking about it. Any amount of current blather about new guidelines and reviews is just that, blather.

They'll maybe retrench on establishing new "guidelines" and weaselword them into being "oh-so-reasonable" but the long-term strategy is entrenched and it will start to happen again.

Hey, I've seen this kind of cycle occur time and time again. Push, get pushed back, retreat, then push again in a year or two or five or ten.

Sorry, but as I said, my radar's working juuuuuust fine.

And as I've said before, "If they can, they will. If they can't today, they'll try again tomorrow."

Maybe I'll make that my new sig line.

Terry, 230RN

ETA:
Cf also:
http://gunrightsmedia.com/showthread.php?p=5376440#post5376440

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