February 14th Support Starbuck's.


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Inebriated
January 24, 2012, 03:20 AM
Just saw this on another forum... interesting indeed. Would not expect Starbucks to be pro gun...

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/23/4208271/starbucks-pro-gun-policy-prompts.html

This IS for real, right?

EDIT - If this should go in Activism, please move it! I completely forgot to even check there.

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mljdeckard
January 24, 2012, 03:25 AM
And ARE YOU KIDDING ME about the language that article uses? Is that really a news story, not an editorial?

Inebriated
January 24, 2012, 03:29 AM
The language is what made me suspicious... "Assault weapons" jumped at me, so I brought it to the high road in search of its infinite wisdom.

Bobson
January 24, 2012, 03:41 AM
Sounds legit to me. PR Newswire is generally accepted as a respected source in scholarly writing.

I find it pretty ridiculous that the author(s) compared England's homicide numbers to the US', claiming the England's "sane gun laws" are to credit, while completely ignoring the fact that England's total population is roughly the same as the populations of California, Oregon, and Washington states (about 51 million for England; about 48 million for just those three states). What a joke. Talk about twisted statistics.

Inebriated
January 24, 2012, 03:51 AM
I'm glad someone else get's that the comparison is skewed... I hear it all the time, and no one get's it.

Thefabulousfink
January 24, 2012, 05:24 AM
At first I thought "What kind of editor would allow such a poorly written/researched article(unless they had an agenda)" until I saw this at the top of the page:
This section contains unedited press releases distributed by PR Newswire. These releases reflect the views of the issuing entity and are not reviewed or edited by the Sacramento Bee staff. More information on PR Newswire can be found on their web site. You can contact the service with questions or concerns here.


and this:
By National Gun Victims Action Council

This is a direct posting from NGVAC and was not vetted or endorsed by the Sac Bee. Please keep that in mind before you send any e-mails to the paper.

We all benefit when we come off as the more reasonable and calmer side of the debate. :cool:

N003k
January 24, 2012, 05:56 AM
Well, I've been trying to eat healither...but I think I'll stop in at Starbucks on Valentines day now.

Nushif
January 24, 2012, 08:10 AM
I honestly don't think starbucks is pro or con anything.

As Starbucks themselves said in a press release (which I may be misremembering) they are complying with the state laws, wherever this establishment may be at. Seeing this in conjunction with their "offend nobody" policy of not hiring people who will not cover up even small tattoos ... it seems more a corporate policy of "no offense" rather than any kind of activism. they're all about the corporate status-quo. Not anybody's rights.

Just because some business allows guns doesn't make them pro or anti gun. It makes them want people's money. Believe it or not, there is such a thing as a gray area, rather than a black and white "with us or against us" sort of situation.

Lex Luthier
January 24, 2012, 08:17 AM
As usual, any business's preference NEVER trumps my constitutional amendment rights.

It would be kind of nice to don my assault rifle while sipping a hot Earl Grey with lemon. Imagine all the nice new friends you would make.

N003k
January 24, 2012, 08:18 AM
For me, the fact that they're willing to stay out of it is enough personally. I'd rather they let people that obey the law, obey the law without further problems. If they don't want to make a stand for guns, at least make sure they have good reason not to make a stand AGAINST guns.

Nushif
January 24, 2012, 09:48 AM
For me, the fact that they're willing to stay out of it is enough personally [...]

Being one of the demographic who doesn't often benefit from this mentality I can't say agree. My decision to vote with what little money I have, my feet and most importantly my vote depends on more than one issue, especially in a corporate setting where my political vote matters precious little!
But to keep this guns related, I don't mind at all (obviously) that they're letting people OC, CCW or whatever in states that allow this .... but keep in mind, in states where this is illegal they will call the cops just as well as any other business. Think a starbucks in NYC ... Remember: in this case corporate policy is "we do whatever the state says and get any people who live there to drink our stuff." Just keeping this in perspective.

armoredman
January 24, 2012, 10:13 AM
It would be kind of nice to don my assault rifle while sipping a hot Earl Grey with lemon.
C'mon down, legal here. Don't see it at all, but legal.

I think I may finally break down and buy a cup of coffee there...do they have regular old every day coffee?

armoredman
January 24, 2012, 10:15 AM
Hmm, if they make shakes my son would have one, but NOTHING with caffeine for an 11 year old! :)

newbuckeye
January 24, 2012, 10:17 AM
do they have regular old every day coffee?

Yes, but definitely not cheap.....

2WheelsGood
January 24, 2012, 10:46 AM
Yeah, I remember a while back when groups were putting pressure on them to ban guns. They simply said: "we abide by local laws". Sure, they're out to make money, but that still means that the bean counters (pardon the coffee pun) realize that it's better for business to support local laws than it is to cave into some fringe group's demands. So still I'll support them.

2WheelsGood
January 24, 2012, 10:54 AM
If that group really cared about the victims, they'd give them free firearms training.

GoWolfpack
January 24, 2012, 11:08 AM
We've come to a very sad place when we're excited when a business doesn't violate our rights.

NavyLCDR
January 24, 2012, 11:30 AM
They tried the same thing last year. Starbucks business increased because of the publicity. I would not say that Starbucks is necessarily pro-gun. They just said they weren't going to get involved in the politics, and if a person was legal and a customer, that's all they cared about.

I think they got more positive reaction from just not caving in to political pressure and focusing on doing business.

timhernandez
January 24, 2012, 11:46 AM
My son works for Starbucks in Mi. The store he works at follows the Corp. policy and State Law on open carry. It is also frequented by the local PD as it is at a nexus in their patrol area.

It was funny/nice/refreshing to see see a local PD and an OC fella doctoring their coffee up with creme and sugar and talking firearms while most of the other people in the place ignored them.

holdencm9
January 24, 2012, 11:47 AM
I agree they are probably not "pro-gun" in the sense of the term we may think, but in this day and age, where seemingly every business has the "no guns allowed on premises" signs, it is nice that they respect the law. I really do think in this case, "no opinion" is better than nothing.

We've come to a very sad place when we're excited when a business doesn't violate our rights.

Well said!

2WheelsGood
January 24, 2012, 11:48 AM
I chose "Corporate Social Responsibility" from the drop-down. ;)

I did too. I kept it very nice...

As a frequent Starbucks customer and a responsible gun owner, I simply wanted to thank you for defaulting to our local laws in spite of pressure to make a political stand on an issue that has nothing to do with coffee.

Thank you, and I'll see you on Valentine's Day.

Sgt_R
January 24, 2012, 11:51 AM
This is an RKBA issue and THR is an RKBA forum. Any organization has issues that can be brought up, but here RKBA is our only focus.

Not to mention that nothing in that post was even remotely true:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/starbucks.asp

http://news.starbucks.com/about+starbucks/myths+facts/militarydonations.htm

Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread!

R

NavyLCDR
January 24, 2012, 12:17 PM
where seemingly every business has the "no guns allowed on premises" signs

That definitely depends on location. Here in NW Washington, the only "No Guns" sign we see are required due to prohibition of guns in over 21 places by liquor control board.

wannabeagunsmith
January 24, 2012, 02:50 PM
Those people are so far gone, they seem hopeless. I prefer to not devote my entire life fighting inanimate objects, even their organisation's title sounds stupid. Those arguments too....

Buckeye Dan
January 24, 2012, 03:48 PM
The Facebook page and it's growing:
http://www.facebook.com/events/261743290558881/

Strykervet
January 24, 2012, 07:01 PM
This should be interesting. The Spanaway WA Starbucks location, not too far away, they were ground zero for an open carry situation a while back. The audio made it on youtube and ultimately on here. The cops won the battle by making the guy leave to satisfy the sheeple, but they lost the war when a bunch of opencarry.org guys showed up. They were more than happy to gang up and force their version of the law on that one guy, but those same cops weren't so eager to force their version on an armed and po'd public. It got attention, a LOT here and the anti's boycotted and the pros supported. It ended up with the sherriff issuing a statement to the cops outlining how our law works. She didn't want to, she always stands behind that blue line and not with the public, but she doesn't work for the cops she works for us and they all learned that on that day including her. Stand up for your rights. In this case the guy could have cowtowed and the audio and video never made it out and the cops kept enforcing their version of the carry laws, and the anti's could have learned a new tattle tale tool, but it did make it out, and the backlash was in favor of constitutional rights. Now if the anti's call, the cops check it out and then give them a Kleenex.

Starbucks obviously didn't change their position. To this day, you go to the one in Spanaway and there will almost always be a pistol showing, last time I was there one was laying holstered on the table while the guy was drinking his coffee --by the front door. Most of the guys that do it make a point of open carrying just for protest, it really wasn't an issue here until the anti's wanted it banned, and nobody really open carried in public before that. Then they got the vulgar display of the 2A in response.

I was happy concealing it, but if it becomes an issue I'll wear it on my forehead if that is what it takes. I also don't buy too much into the anti boycott. They tried it here already and it didn't work, and they pushed for a lot more than one day. Besides, most are still boycotting it anyway --I do that, I won't buy BP gas for life, I'll walk first and they are the cheapest station around. Also, I went to the big anti site here in WA, Ceasefire. They have less members than a small local gun forum that just started up a year ago.

I'll get a cup of coffee on that day, and I'll get one for my fellow anti as well.

Superlite27
January 24, 2012, 07:03 PM
Some folks just aren't seeing the forest through the trees.

HELOOOOO!

You want to argue whether or not Starbucks is or is not anti, or pro, firearm.

You want to discuss whether or not their coffee is good or bad , or the price they ask is too much.

Some might discuss the stereotypical employee, or customer, or the kind of tattoo the girl you saw drinking Starbuck's coffee last week had.

Leave it up to the ambivolent to digress. Keep pointing out the pretty trees and wondering where the forest went.

All I know is:

1) (INSERT ANY COMPANY) CURRENTLY ALLOWS FIRARMS IN THEIR ESTABLISHMENT.

2) SOME ANTI RIGHTS ACTIVISTS WANT THIS TO CHANGE.

3) I DO NOT.

4) THESE ANTI RIGHTS ACTIVISTS ARE GOING TO BOYCOTT (INSERT ABOVE COMPANY) IN ORDER TO EFFECT THIS CHANGE.

Therefore, I am not going to offer my opinion on the kind of clothes that people in (insert above company) often wear. I am not going to offer an opinion on what color hair, kind of car, type of computer, political persuasion, sexual preference, color wallpaper, type of wood the chairs are made out of, cleanliness of windows, or whether or not my late grandmother once fell down while walking past one of these (insert above company)'s front door.

The anti's are going to boycott in order to pressure them to adopt an anti-gun agenda?

ANYONE who calls themselves a firearm rights supporter should be realizing that opposing ANY boycott aimed at removing their rights might possibly be a good idea.

If the anti's want something, I want the opposite.

Therefore, I'll be buying FOUR coffees at Starbucks on this day. The other three are for folks who aren't as concerned about firearms freedom as I am and decide to do nothing.

1911Jeeper
January 24, 2012, 07:57 PM
For standing firm in the face of the hysterical demands of an anti-(insert your political cause here) group, I will buy all of my daily fix of coffee from Starbucks on Valentine's Day.




.

hso
January 24, 2012, 08:13 PM
Yep, thread in Activism running on it.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7904731

The point is that if the Antis are going to try to hurt a business for treating us fairly the least we can do is offset any losses they might have on Feb. 14 by seeing to it we give them our business on that day. It also can't hurt to tell them we appreciate their fair-mindedness.

It doesn't matter too much who the business that is being singled out happens to be. What matters is that the Antis have singled them out to try to force them to establish a national company policy to deny law-abiding gun owners access with their firearms to their establishments. It is in our self interest to see to it that the Antis don't get their way. If all that takes is buying a cup of coffee and a muffin to make the Antis look like marginalized crackpots that's a pretty good deal.

I sent this too them and intend to follow up.

I've just heard that there's a planned boycott on Feb. 14 by anti 2A groups attempting to punish Starbucks for their decision to follow state and local law instead of changing company policy on law abiding customers carrying firearms legally. While I'm an occasional customer I'll make a point of doing my share to offset any business Starbucks may loose due to this proposed boycott. I'll see to it that my family and I are in Starbucks at least once on Feb. 14.

Thank you for not caving in to the radical beliefs of a small vocal group of marginalized extremists.

archigos
January 24, 2012, 08:31 PM
I'm thinking of drawing up a business-card size printout to give them stapled to a nice tip. Anybody want to volunteer any concepts for this? (Disclaimer: I am no graphic artist... it'd basically be what a complete novice can do with GIMP.)

7.62 Nato
January 24, 2012, 11:37 PM
The best we can do is make up for the people that WON'T go to Starbucks on Valentine's Day. Even if you are not a regular there, please find your way to one on that day so that their numbers don't take a dive at all. The best we can do is show the anti-gunner's stance had no effect.
I'm not a Starbucks fan but I'd love to see them report record sales for that day. However, I don't expect our support to make any more difference in sales than those boycotting.

It would be nice if someone made an online card , or "coupon" people could print off and give the cashier stating why they chose to patronize Starbucks that day. Similar to the "no guns= no $" cards given to anti 2A businesses.

Neverwinter
January 25, 2012, 12:20 AM
It behooves them not to cave to special interests groups who want them to act beyond what is required by law. Sure, they might lose a small minority who will boycott, but that is likely to be less than if they were to explicitly prohibit in all stores.

springfield30-06
January 25, 2012, 09:41 AM
I will be there on Feb. 14, but this isn't just a one day event according to the National Gun Victims Action Council. The boycott STARTS on Feb. 14 and is supposed to last until "Starbucks rejects the NRA's pro-gun agenda by banning guns from their stores, and becoming an aggressive corporate activist for sane gun laws."

Here's a link to their Facebook page National Gun Victims Action Council - Facebook Page (https://www.facebook.com/GunVictimsAction)

Link to their post where the boycott will last for a long time according to them Boycott will last until they reject the NRA (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=314072431963134&id=190262334344145)

Here's their web page NGVAC website (http://gunvictimsaction.org/)

2WheelsGood
January 25, 2012, 09:47 AM
Here's a link to their Facebook page National Gun Victims Action Council - Facebook Page (https://www.facebook.com/GunVictimsAction)

What I find funny is that their facebook page says they're out of Chicago... home of the most ridiculous gun laws in the US.

W.E.G.
January 25, 2012, 03:54 PM
You gotta wonder what REALLY made Starbucks adopt the "we just follow state law" policy.

Were it not for the fact that so many businesses persist in "banning guns," one might think Starbucks' position on the issue is just a common-sense thing. I'm skeptical.

Could they be... THE GOOD GUYS???

hso
January 25, 2012, 05:12 PM
Whether the owner of Starbuck's is one of the "good guys" conciously supporting RKBA or whether he's a pragmatist calculating that the safest corporate position is to follow the law of the land, we do know that the Antis are the the bad guys. Whatever we can do to confound them is in our best interest. If that means buying a pound of Starbuck's coffe on Vallentine's day, so be it.

7.62 Nato
January 25, 2012, 05:13 PM
Here you go.

hso
January 25, 2012, 05:14 PM
Whatever confounds the Antis is in our best interest. If that means buying a pound of Starbuck's coffee on Feb. 14, I'm all for it.

2WheelsGood
January 25, 2012, 05:14 PM
Here you go.

Let's be clear. They do not support gun owners. They support the law. Huge difference.

2WheelsGood
January 25, 2012, 05:21 PM
Just now I got this message back from Starbucks. Note, I didn't say anything about supporting open carry. They assumed I meant that:


Thank you for contacting Starbucks Coffee Company.

Thank you for your feedback regarding Starbucks' policy on open carry laws.

At Starbucks, we deeply respect the views of our customers and recognize that there is significant and genuine passion surrounding the issue of open carry weapons laws. We comply with local laws and statutes in the communities we serve. Our long-standing approach to this issue remains unchanged and we abide by the laws that permit open carry in 43 U.S. states. Where these laws don't exist, openly carrying weapons in our stores is prohibited.

As the public debate around this issue continues, we encourage customers and advocacy groups from both sides to share their input with their public officials. We are extremely sensitive to the issue of gun violence in our society and believe that supporting local laws is the right way for us to ensure a safe environment for both partners and customers.

If you have any further questions or concerns that I was unable to address, please feel free to let me know.

7.62 Nato
January 25, 2012, 05:21 PM
I don't care to play semantics. I'm not a schoolyard lawyer, and didn't stay at Holiday Inn.

I'll take their support, and show them mine.

2WheelsGood
January 25, 2012, 05:25 PM
I'll take their support, and show them mine.

So will I, but as the letter I just posted above shows, they don't support gun owners any more than they support the Antis. They support the law only. And I would hope you can see how big the difference is. NRA supports gun owners; Starbucks supports the law. And to that end, that image you posted is not accurate.

7.62 Nato
January 25, 2012, 05:30 PM
So will I, but as the letter I just posted above shows, they don't support gun owners any more than they support the Antis. They support the law only. And I would hope you can see how big the difference is. NRA supports gun owners; Starbucks supports the law. And to that end, that image you posted is not accurate.
Maybe you should skip the coffee. I'm outa this thread.

EnfieldEnthusiast
January 25, 2012, 05:31 PM
If Starbucks really mean what they say & they support gun rights,then I for one will always buy those lovely grande lattes from them,as well as those lovely club & BLT sandwiches(Instead of going to a Turkish/greek-run diner:-) & will continue to give them my business.The most ironic thing about this is,that alot of Starbuck customers,(From what Ive seen of them,in central London:-)are trendies & alternatives,(Think of the characters in the movie The Beach & Dr Caroline Lucas Green Party MP for Brighton Pavillion-lovely lady,to chat to,but Im at odds with her & her parties anti-gun attitudes:-)whom are usually anti-gun &whose political allegiancies are affiliated with the centre-Left & far-left.However the rockers &punks,seem to be more pro-gun though and I know this,because I've hung around with this crowd before.

If we had England's gun laws we would expect 375 gun homicides each year—97% less than we have. England's gun laws are based on protecting public safety, ours on maximizing sales for the gun industry." Non-Sane Gun Laws
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/23/4208271/starbucks-pro-gun-policy-prompts.html#storylink=cpy
LOL,ahhahhahahah!!!!ROFL ahaha.Oh no they aren't,they are repressive because a group of insecure,do-gooding,bigots,didn't like the look of certain types of firearms and banned them,outright,after our two major gun massacres.Britain had lower gun crime,many years ago,than now due to changes in our society.Go figure that over a coffee,whilst I recover from pulling my stomach muscles,due to excessive laughter.

Double Naught Spy
January 25, 2012, 06:09 PM
I think a lot of the boycotts of businesses by gun owners are just plain silly. It makes the gun community look rather vindictive and petty. Besides that, people missing from a business are not immediately noticed. They are just absent and the business owner won't ever have a clue.

However, going in support of a business, wearing pro 2A material, is very positive and it let's the people in the business know who its clients are.

Personally, I don't care what their motivation is as the net result is that it supports us.

I am not a coffee drinker, but I will go buy one of their $6 cups of hot chocolate and maybe even one of the (are they really?) $4 muffins as well.

Superlite27
January 25, 2012, 07:05 PM
If Starbucks really mean what they say & they support gun rights

They don't "support gun rights", per se.

They simply refuse to ban them where they aren't illegal.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

Ambivalence is far from "support", but when compared to outright hostility....I'll take it.

hso
January 25, 2012, 07:53 PM
The question should be what marginalizes the Antis in this case more than whether Starbuck's is pro-RKBA.

If the Antis want to hurt Starbuck's for not bowing to pressure to put a restrictive national corporate policy in place against carry in their stores, we as RKBA supporters should make sure that their effort has no teeth and gets no positive press.

It isn't about "supporting" Starbuck's as much as it is about taking advantage of an opportunity to confound the Antis.

2WheelsGood
January 25, 2012, 08:30 PM
The question should be what marginalizes the Antis in this case more than whether Starbuck's is pro-RKBA.

I agree, and I'll be there too, but saying that "Starbucks supports gun owners" is not only incorrect, it also puts Starbucks in a position they have publicly stated they don't want to be in. Nowhere in that letter I posted does it say they support gun owners or anyone else. They are trying to stay completely neutral, and it doesn't seem wise of us to try to slant this in our favor by making untrue claims. 99.9% of the stores in my area also abide by the laws, but that surely doesn't suggest they support gun owners. In fact, we don't know that behind the scenes Starbucks isn't doing everything they can to support new gun control measures. If stricter laws are passed, it's actually in their best interest; it takes the pressure off of them.

I was at Starbucks this morning, and I'll be there on the 14th, and obviously I felt strong enough about this to send them a letter. But I won't fool myself into thinking their stand is anything but based on the bottom line.

Ryanxia
January 26, 2012, 10:35 AM
It amazes me how people can fight the Constitution and actually succeed on many occasions.

hso
January 26, 2012, 09:20 PM
Let us be sure we understand that Starbuck's may not "support" us, but that they're standing up to the Antis trying to force them into something against us. All the same. but "The enemy of my enemy...".;)

Derry 1946
January 27, 2012, 01:43 AM
Isn't Feb 14 the Top Shot season premier? Great combo.

7.62 Nato
January 27, 2012, 02:22 AM
I'm thinking of drawing up a business-card size printout to give them stapled to a nice tip. Anybody want to volunteer any concepts for this? (Disclaimer: I am no graphic artist... it'd basically be what a complete novice can do with GIMP.)
Here you go. Got it from another site.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7907461#post7907461

68wj
January 27, 2012, 05:43 PM
I will be there. Sig line changed to inform those that don't check this sub-forum.

2WheelsGood
January 27, 2012, 08:16 PM
I'd imagine it's still up to the franchise owner to have the final say.

Starbucks stores are all corporate owned.

Snowdog
January 27, 2012, 08:20 PM
Starbucks stores are all corporate owned.

Ah, all the more reason to support their decision.

Sgt_R
January 29, 2012, 03:50 AM
I got the exact same reply today. The way it's worded, I think they'd probably send the same response to an "anti" as well.

Basically what they're saying is "We don't want to take a side in this debate, but we will uphold and respect the law. If you don't like the law, then contact your local officials and have it changed." I can completely appreciate that.

R

Snowdog
January 29, 2012, 07:54 AM
I got the exact same reply today. The way it's worded, I think they'd probably send the same response to an "anti" as well.

Basically what they're saying is "We don't want to take a side in this debate, but we will uphold and respect the law. If you don't like the law, then contact your local officials and have it changed." I can completely appreciate that.

I got the same canned response and I must say that I agree with your entire take on it.

Of course, I still plan on the venti and muffin on the 14th if nothing more than to provide financial equilibrium during the boycott.

docnyt
January 29, 2012, 06:00 PM
Try the Americano. ;)

R

Agreed.

hso
January 29, 2012, 08:25 PM
Remember, we're not "supporting" Starbucks, but confounding the Anti group that wants to punish them into changing their national policy against us.

Oh, the other relevant fact is that his National Gun Victims Action Council was just formed in 2010 and is only trying to get attention to make themselves relevant. By taking a public poke at a large company like Starbucks they hope to draw attention.

The best thing we can do is to confound them by quietly seeing to it that Starbucks has a banner day on Feb. 14 and higher sales this Feb. than last Feb. Let the folks at Starbucks know that you're bringing money to them to make sure that crybaby organizations seeking attention like this one don't profit from their behavior and that we appreciate their neutrality. No flashy overt attention seeking behavior on our part should be seen lest we're equated to these fools.

BTW, if you don't want to drive to get a cup of coffee you can always buy a bag of beans online at http://www.starbucksstore.com/. Just be sure to place your order on Feb. 14 and make a comment that we respect Starbucks' neutral policy and appreciate their not bowing to pressure from a fringe group trying to have them set national policy outside of local laws.

T.C.
January 30, 2012, 04:41 AM
For the last decade I have noticed the label of weapon is the new description of firearms. Becareful what you say the 2nd ammendment does not protect weapons.

(What you say can and "WILL" be used against you in a court of law.)

Sam1911
January 30, 2012, 09:47 AM
Becareful what you say the 2nd ammendment does not protect weapons.


I beg to differ:

The 2nd Amendment protects our right to keep and bear ARMS. ARMS are WEAPONS. ARMS does not indicate toys, tools for procuring food, or interesting pieces of memorabilia.

The fact that we have the 2nd Amendment and that it recognizes a legitimate and rightful need for honest people to keep and bear implements of destruction and death is incredibly significant and helps define a bit about who we are as Americans.

We are not unique in that we may hunt, or that we may poke holes in paper from far away, or that we may hang shiny things on our walls. We are unique in that we recognize an inherent right to the means, and at times the USE, of lethal weapons in the defense of ourselves, our loved ones, and our country.

Mamby-pamby soft-peddling of the concept to try to hide the purposely lethal utility of our ARMS is a serious mistake and shirks from the right and responsibility belonging to free peoples.

Support and thank Starbucks (and any other company who does likewise) for recognizing that the right of a free people is to be armed -- to bear weapons -- in their daily lives.

Archaic
January 30, 2012, 07:47 PM
Only in **********.

I just joined the FB group.

Hondo 60
January 31, 2012, 12:21 AM
It may not be cheap.
But for one day I'll support them.

Skylerbone
January 31, 2012, 02:20 AM
Not at all opposed to supporting Starbucks, or the notion that we as residents of this republic have a right to bear arms. What is alarming to me is the notion people have that within the confines of a privately owned (or publicly traded) company that the proprietor's right to forbid firearms is trivial. There is no law I am aware of that allows one to carry in opposition to posted signs, and owners/individuals have that right.

I am pleased to hear that a company like Starbucks has chosen to ALLOW carry in accordance with local laws and I too will support them with my business. I will not however make overt attempts to display any weapons or otherwise make spectacle over a cup of coffee. That is the sort of tactic that changes corporate policies and IMO is reticent of the radical minority. Best case scenario, as has been mentioned, is for corporate to note no significant impact or indeed a spike in sales. We've already given a fringe group more than their 15 minutes.

NinjaFeint
January 31, 2012, 03:01 AM
Not at all opposed to supporting Starbucks, or the notion that we as residents of this republic have a right to bear arms. What is alarming to me is the notion people have that within the confines of a privately owned (or publicly traded) company that the proprietor's right to forbid firearms is trivial. There is no law I am aware of that allows one to carry in opposition to posted signs, and owners/individuals have that right.

I am pleased to hear that a company like Starbucks has chosen to ALLOW carry in accordance with local laws and I too will support them with my business. I will not however make overt attempts to display any weapons or otherwise make spectacle over a cup of coffee. That is the sort of tactic that changes corporate policies and IMO is reticent of the radical minority. Best case scenario, as has been mentioned, is for corporate to note no significant impact or indeed a spike in sales. We've already given a fringe group more than their 15 minutes.

This plus I don't like their coffee, atmosphere or prices. Plus, let's be real, they won't notice the dent in sales. Volume is way too high to notice a few thousand cups either way and it will likely cancel out to an even lower number if people actually boycott/support as they say they will.

So good on them for making one choice I like, I just don't like anything else about them.

Flopsweat
January 31, 2012, 09:27 AM
Not at all opposed to supporting Starbucks, or the notion that we as residents of this republic have a right to bear arms. What is alarming to me is the notion people have that within the confines of a privately owned (or publicly traded) company that the proprietor's right to forbid firearms is trivial. There is no law I am aware of that allows one to carry in opposition to posted signs, and owners/individuals have that right.

My understanding is that in most states (there are exceptions) it is not illegal to carry in a business that prohibits firearms on the premises. There is no law in my state that gives such signs the power of law. It is illegal to refuse to leave when asked, but that is not the same thing.


I am pleased to hear that a company like Starbucks has chosen to ALLOW carry in accordance with local laws and I too will support them with my business. I will not however make overt attempts to display any weapons or otherwise make spectacle over a cup of coffee. That is the sort of tactic that changes corporate policies and IMO is reticent of the radical minority. Best case scenario, as has been mentioned, is for corporate to note no significant impact or indeed a spike in sales. We've already given a fringe group more than their 15 minutes.
I agree 100%. Open display of firearms would be counterproductive.

NavyLCDR
January 31, 2012, 11:25 AM
I agree 100%. Open display of firearms would be counterproductive.

So, even though I normally open carry in Starbucks about once a month (everytime I visit them), that I can't open carry like I normally do on February 14th?

Prophet
January 31, 2012, 12:10 PM
I'll be stopping at the Starbucks for a drink on Valentines Day. Anyone who respects that Starbucks respects our rights (for whatever reason) should too. If I were over the age of 21 I'd OC to show my solidarity with the 2nd amendment and would explain why I was patronizing them on that day. I think it's silly to let the anti's voice be the only one heard. I say show them that normal, everyday Starbucks patrons own and carry firearms.

Superlite27
January 31, 2012, 02:28 PM
Just a suggestion for folks who will also be spending money at Starbucks to confound the boycott by anti-firearm rights activists of February 14th:

Making the rounds in several other forums I frequent is a suggestion to use $2 bills for your purchases that day.

I think this is an excellent idea. For those who live in CC only states or choose not to OC, this could be also be a good way to let Starbucks know that this particular money comes from 2nd Amendment supporters since you can't obviously appear as one. (Unless you have the NRA coat, hat, belt-buckle, shoe strings, ballpoint pen, checkbook cover, etc. as a dead giveaway.) This way, our support is easily figured out when the accountants wonder, "Where'd all these $2 bills come from?" without forcing the support/not support decision onto them. It lets them maintain their neutrality while also subtly letting them know where the money is coming from. (If they have the wherewithal to figure out the $2/2A correlation.)

First4Freedom
January 31, 2012, 02:55 PM
Emailed them and will support the cause of course.

Hypnogator
January 31, 2012, 03:24 PM
It isn't about "supporting" Starbuck's as much as it is about taking advantage of an opportunity to confound the Antis.

Actually, it's both. I'm always up for anything to confound the antis, and this has the advantage, if enough of us gunnies patronize Starbucks on Feb 14th, of partially, or even completely offsetting any business loss they might experience as a result of the boycott. If they actually increase sales on Valentine's Day, other businesses that might be contemplating gun-ban signs, or those who have posted such signs, might re-think their position. :what::eek::cool:

Flopsweat
January 31, 2012, 04:03 PM
So, even though I normally open carry in Starbucks about once a month (everytime I visit them), that I can't open carry like I normally do on February 14th?
I could have worded that better, couldn't I? Fortunately I have a feeling that if you are at Starbucks on the 14th you will be open carrying.

Skylerbone
January 31, 2012, 04:34 PM
I don't condemn open carry, keep in mind that can vary state to state. Those of us here at home can strap an AR to our backs and stroll right in. As mentioned, spectacle. It the difference between OC with your Model 60 snubbie that day or choosing the Desert Eagle to make a point. Imagine hundreds of baristas nationwide calling corporate with concerns about patrons "flashing" firearms in front of all the love birds.

7.62 Nato
January 31, 2012, 05:01 PM
This is about gun owners showing support for Starbucks because they didn't cave to the Antis and ban gun posession on their property where they could have. Don't turn this into a CC vs. OC debate or contest. This is about all gun owners whether you carry or not.

Skylerbone
January 31, 2012, 07:08 PM
And part of that support IMO entails treading lightly. A little civility on the part of firearm owners will lend less credence to the anti's movement. I'm not turning this open discussion into anything it is not already become and I'll thank you to allow me my say.

I open carry where appropriate in my own estimation and I conceal where I prefer discretion. My firearms are not props, they serve a purpose and every owner owes himself an education in how best to arm and carry, which ever methods work to advantage.

Dave Workman
February 1, 2012, 01:09 PM
As a lot of you know, I've covered this Starbucks stupidity since 2010 in my Examiner column and in GUN WEEK.

I've already heard from gun owners all over the place who plan to turn out on Valentine's Day for a cup, and put their money where their mouths are.

The final analysis, as I wrote here (http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/nw-gun-rights-activists-coffee-up-as-starbucks-posts-profits) about a week ago, is Starbucks' bottom line.

If this manufactured fear had really worked, Starbucks would have lost business. Instead, their profits have steadily increased in the wake of the original Brady Bunch campaign.

It is very "High Road" to support businesses that refuse to buckle under and treat armed citizens like lepers. ;)


What I find objectionable is that these people want to force businesses to be their surrogates in a campaign of social bigotry v. gun owners. That's not just low road, it's plain darned tacky.

Dnaltrop
February 1, 2012, 11:15 PM
Starbucks and I have never seen eye to eye, as someone who roasts his own green coffee beans with a stovetop popcorn-popper (for far less than the cheapest bulk-food store), our opinions on where dark roast ends, and scorch begins are widely spaced.

I even vaccum-seal grounds for road trips, Life is too short for bad coffee...

Even I will set aside my personal feelings and toss them a few bucks, the coffee cake isn't bad. I can give them that much for their minimal adherence to local regulation.

Steve Raacke
February 2, 2012, 02:05 AM
Regarding the planned Starbucks protest by the National Gun Victim's Action Council (NGAC).... Here's an idea I've seen passed around on another forum.
When going to Starbucks to support them on Feb 14, first stop by your local bank branch and swap some of your money (1, 5, 10 or 20 dollar bills) for the more uncommon $2 bills. Spend the 2 dollar bills at the Starbucks and thank them for supporting your Second Amendment rights while paying with those 2 dollar bills. $2 bills=2nd Amendment. It will remind them of the business they received from legal gun owners when they count the register at the end of the shift and see it stuffed with $2 bills.

newbuckeye
February 2, 2012, 07:04 AM
My understanding is that in most states (there are exceptions) it is not illegal to carry in a business that prohibits firearms on the premises.

Ohio is one of those exceptions. It is up to the owner and sometimes just the manager weather the sign is posted or not. We also have forbidden zones that don't need a sign, like a church.

Dnaltrop
February 2, 2012, 04:03 PM
I like the $2 bill idea... A Lot.

doc540
February 18, 2012, 08:08 PM
I sent an email to Starbucks regarding 2nd Amendment issues.

Here's their reply: (emphasis mine)
"Dear Doc,

Thank you for your feedback regarding Starbucks' policy on open carry laws.

At Starbucks, we deeply respect the views of our customers and recognize that there is significant and genuine passion surrounding the issue of open carry weapons laws. We comply with local laws and statutes in the communities we serve. Our long-standing approach to this issue remains unchanged and we abide by the laws that permit open carry in 43 U.S. states. Where these laws don't exist, openly carrying weapons in our stores is prohibited.

As the public debate around this issue continues, we encourage customers and advocacy groups from both sides to share their input with their public officials. We are extremely sensitive to the issue of gun violence in our society and believe that supporting local laws is the right way for us to ensure a safe environment for both partners and customers.

Sincerely,

Matthew

customer service"

That's what I call a hit and a miss.

Looks like they confused "concealed carry" with "open carry", but I give'em an "A" for effort.

Flopsweat
February 20, 2012, 10:46 AM
I went for coffee twice, tipped heavily and bought extra stuff. I would normally be in a Starbucks once or twice a month. If enough of us did that, corporate will notice.

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