Scoping and removing wood from 1964 Ishapore 7.62 Enfield


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the-jon
January 24, 2012, 12:54 PM
Hi, My name is Jon and I am a new participant here. I was recently given a 1964 Ishapore Indian-made 7.62 x .51 NATO standard ammunition rifle with 12 round magazine by a friend. It is completely encased in wood (so to speak) and thus is very heavy at over 10 pounds.

I would like to know if anyone has seen such a rifle with the forestock both top and bottom removed to the end of the rear sight ramp and shaped slightly just for looks. This seems that it would considerably lighten the rifle especially if the front and rear site guard assemblies are removed.

I have field stripped the gun, cleaned it, shot 35 bullets, re-cleaned it, and then removed all the wood to look for surprises. I am not a skilled anything as far as rifles go, but used to maintenance and repair machinery of every type and do custom and many types of stock knife-making, sharpening, and honing in saw and lumber mills lumber mills for 15 years. I am a journeyman cabinetmaker, turned webmaster (chfpatients.com) now unable to work.

This gun is only used for target shooting and plinking at public shooting ranges and thus is in little danger of its sites being damaged (I think). My friend shot .308 Winchester ammunition (180 grain) with no trouble but after two weeks of research I have discovered that NATO standard ammo is thought to have a 10% flatter trajectory. I am now attempting to adjust the front blade site as it was a mile off, or might as well have been. Being keyed (some were actually welded) I should eventually get the site where I want it. This particular gun was manufactured especially for long-range use, thus has an unltra-thin front blade sight.

My questions are :
Does anyone know of any online pictures of such a modification?
Does anyone know if such modification affects safety or accuracy?
Has anyone ever had a scope successfully attached to this specific type rifle or one very similar?
If so, did you need to go to a large fancy gun store to find a gunsmith to do the work?

The rifle is in excellent condition and it fires very, very well except for the accuracy, hopefully soon to be fixed. It does have a quite a recoil though!

I am unable to locate a local gun store of smaller size that will even attempt to scope this rifle although it seems that a decent gunsmith should be able to do this job without any extreme skill. Please do not get me wrong, it would certainly take skill; but not so much skill that only a few people in the country could do it. Thank you for any answers, leads, comments, or suggestions.

Thank you very much and I am pleased to be here. I apologize if the post is too long or too stupid. I know what my wife would say about the second. Jon.

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1KPerDay
January 24, 2012, 01:19 PM
Welcome to THR. What you're referring to is commonly referred to as "sporterizing," or, in less friendly circles, a "Bubba" job... as in "Bubba took a hacksaw to this beautiful Enfield!"

Many people have done it. Try a search for "sporterized" SMLE or enfields.

Personally, I'd try to find one that had already been done. I like the full-stocked enfields the way they are.

But I like the look of a good sporter as well.

It's your rifle and your money. But as you said, if the primary purpose is target shooting and plinking, is the weight really a concern? A fresh recrown may do more for accuracy than chopping up the rifle. SOME sporters shoot worse after you remove the stock/nose cap/etc putting pressure on the barrel. Some shoot better.

BTW you may get some people violently objecting to your use of .308 winchester ammo in your Ishy... just FYI.

BrocLuno
January 24, 2012, 01:55 PM
Welcome aboard. You are going to get some strong opinions, just bear with it :)

1Per says it about right. Go to GunBroker and do a search for enfield and 308. You should see quite a few and you can judge how good or bad it came out? You will also see some professional sporter conversions. You need all that in hand before you start cutting because you need and end game planned out. Just cutting won't make the rifle shoot better. Planned smithing with known improvements is the key.

Also do a general search for "talk" about what barrel length these rifles in 308 shoot best?

303tom
January 24, 2012, 02:32 PM
Like this ?

CnRnut
January 24, 2012, 05:48 PM
I've got a Choate stock and a "no-drill" scope mount if you looking to
"bubba" it.

Gunnerboy
January 24, 2012, 05:59 PM
Funny you mention this today i just started scopeing a no1 mk3 with a weaver side mount system, but thats probably too much work for most people being you have too remove the charger guide on the rifle in order to get the mount on the reciever, if you are interested in this type of side mount private message me and i can send you details and pictures.

ball3006
January 24, 2012, 09:33 PM
So.............you are going to take a nice milsurp rifle and hack it up? Why don't you hack up one that has already been hacked up? There are tons of them in pawn shops.....Why don't you just shoot the rifle as it is? If you are one of those guys that want a "light and handy" rifle, just buy something else or join a gym so you can have the strength to carry the Enfield.....chris3

4thPointOfContact
January 24, 2012, 10:49 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=638455, or do a websearch for Ishapore Scout.
Nice 'tankerized' Enfield; would't be any problem to do the same with an Ishie.

As much as I like Ishapore 2A1's... they're not Enfields and not really in the 'collectible' category.

sayak
January 24, 2012, 10:57 PM
Here we go again! This is America, do with your rifle as you see fit. Check out this link:
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=82 The rifle is great as is, but you can learn alot from others if you want to "sporterize" it tastefully. It is not different than updating any other piece of equipment such as cars or aircraft.

Nullcone
January 24, 2012, 11:17 PM
Step 1: Clean up Ishy as best you can.
Step 2: Enjoy as is or sell to someone who likes smelly old things.
Step 3: (If needed) Buy an el cheapo bolt action rifle/scope combo from Walmartstan for your range work (Savage would be my manufacturer of choice).

the-jon
January 25, 2012, 09:51 AM
Hi everyone,

I should have stated what my disabilities are. I need to lighten the rifle simply to prevent exhaustion during any given shooting session. I have class three Stage C heart failure, rheumatoid arthritis both severe and progressive, fibromyalgia both severe and aggressive, severe chronic insomnia for the past 20 years which is how long I have had heart failure, cervicalgia - A very severe mass of rheumatoid arthritis on the cervical spine (neck), scoliosis of the thoracic spine, a partial dislocation called subluxation of the lumbar spine, two bulging discs in the sacral spine, degenerative disc disease, a severe partial tear in my left hamstring along with tearing of the tendon sheath, Hypogonadism, bilateral carpal tunnel syndrome, bilateral greater trochanter bursitis, and bilateral osteoarthritis in knees and hips. There is more but I'm sure you get the idea of why a lighter front end on the rifle would benefit me.Wherever I used the word severe, aggressive or progressive, they were the specialists' words - not mine.

Perhaps that explains my need for a lighter rifle. This has nothing to do with the looks of the Enfield, which was a gift from a friend who knew I wanted to shoot again before my time runs out now that some of my specialists simply call me terminal.

I am now shooting NATO standard rounds since I found out the trajectory might be flatter at the distances I shoot. I tried adjusting the front sight yesterday and found it quite easy to adjust. I hope to go out tomorrow to the public shooting range at a nearby conservation area and finish getting my sights accurate.

If anyone would like to see if I am telling the truth about my disabilities, you can see the site that I created and ran for over 10 years at CHFpatients.com. All the content, graphics and design are mine. I used Dragon software once I got really sick ( by MY standards) and that is how I am writing these posts. That url is not an advertisement since I no longer run the site and just leave it online for others who need the information. It had eight years in a row at the number one return on Google for the search "heart failure" without me ever paying them one dime. I am now too sick to even run a website. Sorry I have not updated my own illnesses and meds section in a few years but why bother? (Check the source page for author and copyright info)

However, I suppose I have a pitbull personality and I do everything I can to stay active. Until I partially dislocated my spine last July, I was still lifting weights.

I will go through and read all the posts as my eyes allow; however I I must say I will probably not finish any that touch on the argument that Enfield should stay an Enfield because it does not apply to me and I did not make that clear in my first post. I apologize for that error.

I have already had all the wood off the Enfield and some of the metal that could come off and stay off, should I customize the gun. I can drop almost 4 pounds or very close to it. This would be a tremendous advantage to my exhaustion problems while shooting. Trust me -- it's mighty hard to hit a target with your whole left arm shaking from fatigue. And YES, I use sandbags for some of my shooting, but it's for FUN, so plinking has its role also.

Must go now to see my PCP and will be back later to start reading some posts. To all who gave useful information, thank you so much. Jon.

303tom
January 25, 2012, 10:13 AM
http://www.atigunstocks.com/9-enfield

1KPerDay
January 25, 2012, 11:28 AM
I have class three Stage C heart failure, rheumatoid arthritis both severe and progressive, fibromyalgia both severe and aggressive, severe chronic insomnia for the past 20 years which is how long I have had heart failure, cervicalgia - A very severe mass of rheumatoid arthritis on the cervical spine (neck), scoliosis of the thoracic spine, a partial dislocation called subluxation of the lumbar spine, two bulging discs in the sacral spine, degenerative disc disease, a severe partial tear in my left hamstring along with tearing of the tendon sheath, Hypogonadism, bilateral carpal tunnel syndrome, bilateral greater trochanter bursitis, and bilateral osteoarthritis in knees and hips.
Damn. :(

You know your limitations better than any of us, but you should be aware that with lighter weight comes heavier recoil, if that's a concern. Feather-light .308s aren't really pleasant to shoot.

Have you considered alternatives? A pistol-caliber carbine like a Marlin camp rifle or a Colt AR-15 in 9mm? A good .22? Maybe a lever action .38 special? All are good and light, and won't pound you.

Good luck!

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