Very low velocity .223 rounds?


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zhyla
January 24, 2012, 01:02 PM
I've got a buddy in Australia. He has a bolt action in .223 for taking out large animals on his farm (kangaroos, etc).

Say he wants to shoot a rabbit or other small animal and be able to get some meat off of it, is there some .223 load that will put it down closer to a .22LR? The last small critter he shot basically exploded.

Obviously, the right answer is to buy another gun that's more appropriate, but guns are extremely expensive there and it took him years to get the paperwork done for what he has.

It does appear to be legal to reload your own ammo in Australia though I doubt he would want to go that route (farms keep you way too busy in my opinion).

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Mike1234567
January 24, 2012, 01:49 PM
Not low velocity but This Would Be My Choice (http://www.hornady.com/store/223-Rem-40-gr-V-MAX/) and I'd aim for the head. Otherwise all he'll have left is stew meat scattered everywhere.

Gdbyrd
January 24, 2012, 02:23 PM
I'll keep looking for this old thread I had saved. It was all about downloading the 223. Guys were getting it way way down using blue dot and accuracy was superb. I think it was more used for target work as they were developing loads, but there was a lot of info posted. I may be mistake. As its been awhile, but I want to say that they were able to achieve just above 22 mag performance. If I can find it I'll post a link.

I think reloading is going to be about the only option honestly unless he strictly goes for head shots as has already been suggested.

Jon_Snow
January 24, 2012, 02:38 PM
The V-maxes are designed to fragment quickly and thus tear small critters up. He might be better served by using FMJs and as Mike said, aiming for the head whenever possible.

NOLAEMT
January 24, 2012, 03:18 PM
I would look for some full metal jacket ammo, that should kill a rabbit without tearing up too much meat, but I would also look for a headshot if possible.

MDH90
January 24, 2012, 03:45 PM
What about one of those modified .223 shells that you put a shotgun primer in and shoot .22 air gun ammo? Id say that would be fine for a rabbit or similar sized game.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=593401

Vern Humphrey
January 24, 2012, 04:37 PM
The V-maxes are designed to fragment quickly and thus tear small critters up. He might be better served by using FMJs and as Mike said, aiming for the head whenever possible.
Amen.

I use the 35 grain V-Max in my .22 Hornet, and it blows holes in crows you can put your fist it -- essentially, there's nothing left around the bullet hold but a fringe of feathers. On coyotes, it doesn't exit, but blows up everything inside.

If I were limited to factory loads in .223 for small game, I'd go with FMJs and stick to head shots.

zhyla
January 24, 2012, 05:06 PM
Thanks guys, that air gun shell thing looks perfect.

rcmodel
January 24, 2012, 05:08 PM
You can do the same exact thing with a empty primed .223 case and a hand seated .22 air rifle pellet.

If you want a little more speed, add 1.0 grain Bullseye pistol powder.

I killed a gazillion pigeons on the barn roof years ago with them.

rc

NCsmitty
January 24, 2012, 05:18 PM
The chamber adapters that allow you to shoot either 22LR or 22 Mag in a 223 rifle might be something to consider.

http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm

If the guy reloaded, he could use www.hodgdon.com site for reduced loads using Trailboss powder that give 22lr velocity with a 55gr bullet.

It's hard to beat the cost of 22LR though, and it seems it would be hard to run a farm without a 22 rimfire handy.


NCsmitty

W.E.G.
January 24, 2012, 05:48 PM
Unless you just want to do a see-if-you-can-do-it with the weirdo loads, you'll be better served to just take the head-shot with full-power ammo when the small critter presents itself. If you've got time to switch ammo, you have time to take a head shot.

Little critters stay alive by only exposing themselves for the briefest moments in the field.

The idea that you are going to have a full-power cartridge in your gun, and you're going to switch it out to nail some pot-meat while the pot-meat is dashing away from you in the bushes seems far-fetched to me.

If you want to do something like loading up cat-sneeze loads for a particular pigeon-hunt, we're talking a different game.

Robert101
January 24, 2012, 06:04 PM
If he reloads it is simply a matter of reducing the load to his comfort level and try it out. I, as a general rule, do not reduce loads to more than 1/3 the max powder suggestion.

Eb1
January 24, 2012, 06:12 PM
nothing from a .223 on a rabbit is going to save meat at normal velocity. not even a FMJ bullet. there is just to many foot pounds there.
Spend $150 for a Marlin Model 60, or some other .22 LR.

M1key
January 24, 2012, 06:54 PM
From Seafire over on the 24hourcampfire.com forum

Also a THR thread http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-446724.html

EDIT: Okay fine....no reloading
_________________________

oldpapps
January 24, 2012, 08:34 PM
"... the right answer is to buy another gun that's more appropriate, but guns are extremely expensive there and it took him years to get the paperwork done for what he has.
It does appear to be legal to reload your own ammo in Australia though I doubt he would want to go that route (farms keep you way too busy in my opinion)."

With out the option of reloads, the pot is going hungry. If reloading is an option, I would go with loading cast lead bullets, the lower velocity and less meat damage can well be achieved.

Always error on the side of safety,

zhyla
January 24, 2012, 08:56 PM
Thttp://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm

The MCACE guy is not reachable and hasn't been for years. Somehow people keep recommending his products.

Thanks all you guys who ignored my assertions that neither buying a new gun nor reloading was a viable option in this case.

TwoWheelFiend
January 24, 2012, 08:59 PM
Huh I never knew you could use Blue Dot for .223. I've allways used it for pistol ammo.

Eb1
January 24, 2012, 09:04 PM
Your welcome, but if reloading was not an option, and buying a gun is out of the options. Your pretty much up a creek, and knew the answer to the question before you even asked..

35 Whelen
January 25, 2012, 12:01 AM
It's going to be either a chamber adapter or handloading.

If you want a little more speed, add 1.0 grain Bullseye pistol powder.

1.0 gr. of B'Eye behind a pellet, believe it or not will give you LOTS more speed...too much I'm sure. I've fire-lapped a couple of 223's lately and I use a 53 gr. cast bullet and 1.0 grs. of B'Eye. That load spits the bullets out with quite a bit of authority, WAY faster than I expected.
Years ago I used to load .22 caliber pellets in my 220 Swift with only a primer. So with the smaller .223 case, I bet just a primer would be enough. At most maybe 1/2 gr, of B'Eye.

35W

Mike1234567
January 25, 2012, 11:04 AM
What about trapping?

benEzra
January 25, 2012, 11:16 AM
I have an old .223 chamber adapter for .22LR that I bought way back, if you can still find one. You assemble it prior to loading it in the rifle, and it feeds from the magazine like a .223 round. If you bought a few of them, you could even make followup shots.

The MCACE guy is not reachable and hasn't been for years. Somehow people keep recommending his products.
The company is still paying the monthly fees to keep their website up, so it appears they're still in business. I suspect that you might have outdated or incorrect contact information?

To order E-Mail (lilred@ak.net) us!
You can also order by calling or writing us at:
MCA Sports/Ace Bullet Company
2800 West 33rd Road
Anchorage, Alaska 99517-2201
(907) 248-4913

If you call, keep in mind the time zone; Alaska is GMT-9:00.

HoosierQ
January 25, 2012, 11:41 AM
Maybe this bloke should get a .22?

Cal-gun Fan
January 25, 2012, 06:45 PM
OP mentioned that wasn't the best option.
That shotshell 223 thing looks like it'd be great for busting crows up at our cabin...hmmm

Matthew Courtney
January 25, 2012, 07:40 PM
The MCACE guy is not reachable and hasn't been for years. Somehow people keep recommending his products.

Thanks all you guys who ignored my assertions that neither buying a new gun nor reloading was a viable option in this case.
Whoa friend, you never asserted that reloading wasn't a viable option..... only that your buddy "didn't want to go that route". In fact, when one asks " is there some .223 load that will put it down closer to a .22LR", one sounds like they are seeking information which might help sell the buddy on the reloading option, or maybe looking for a recipe to load up for the buddy to try.

If you didn't want a handloading recipe, could you clarify what you mean by " is there some .223 load that will put it down closer to a .22LR"?

mtrmn
January 25, 2012, 09:43 PM
I've head-shot several smaller critters with full power FMJ's---it wasn't pretty most of the time. Each shot had different results, but most left little to salvage for eating.

SifuGun
April 9, 2012, 01:04 AM
Also if you used 1 grains of bullseye, what happened with the rest of the empty case. Have you found it safe or ok to shoot an almost empty case? I hear some people stuff the empty area with cotton, is that necessary?

SifuGun
April 9, 2012, 01:09 AM
why would you use Bullseye, why not just a smaller amount of what you normal use to load the 223 round? I have unique which is #26 of about where be is #1 out of 131 on a scale of fastest burning to slowest. Could i use unique instead of bullseye?

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