[conw]

Thinking here, these are things most people do not obey, but which could prevent many mishaps. I try to teach these to people...'most everyone I know, new to knives or not, screws up #1 and #3.

1) Know what is behind/under/beyond the cutting edge and sharpened portion(s) of the knife. Attempt to keep your body and limbs out of the extended path of the knife when at all possible.

2) Handle the knife in as slow and controlled a manner as possible; if dynamic force must be used, pay special attention to rule #1 and #3.

3) Do not put backward pressure on the spine of the knife such that it could close on your fingers or hand, regardless of locking mechanism.

[hso]

1) Unless you only make push cuts it is nearly impossible to make it clear that you con't cut toward your flesh.

2) You must rely upon locking mechansims, but the rule should be not to put pressure on the back of the knife so that it might close on your fingers/hand.

[conw]

HSO, re point #1, I see it as a semantic contention. Not to say it is not a valid point you are making. But when I say "toward" I don't mean in the general direction of, but a matter of avoiding direct impact...e.g. if you are cutting toward yourself, move out of the way as much as possible.

Re point #2, I am changing it a little to reflect your suggestion. And making it #3.

[memphisjim]

in the boy scouts they teach not to release a knife to another until they verbally tell you that they have a firm grasp my troop used "got it"

[conw]

memphis I agree that is a good teaching point with both knives and guns.

I altered rule #1 and rule #2 to apply not only to when the knife is in use, but also administrative handling. I think it encompasses your point now. What do you think?

[1KPerDay]

#4 a dropped knife has no handle.

[conw]

1k I agree but I like to think that is covered under #1 and #2. It can be explained specifically but I don't think it is broadly applicable enough to be a "rule."

[rcmodel]

#5) A dull knife is more dangerous then a sharp knife.

But based on my experiance, I have my doubts about that rule right there :D

rc

[memphisjim]

i think the dull knife theory is do to the extra effort its implementation requires, and subsequent shift from precision to force

[Owen Sparks]

As I understand it there is really only one safety rule when it comes to knives:

NEVER CUT TOWARD YOURSELF.

With fixed blades such as on power tools like table saws the rule is reversed:

NEVER PUSH DIRECTLY TOWARD THE BLADE.
This means keep your hands well off to the sides or use a push stick in case you slip.

There are a lot of things you could add to avoid these two situations but these are the basics.

[conw]

owen, partly agree, but tried to adjust it so that it somewhat accounts for safety of others, and situations where that is unavoidable.

[Flintknapper]

I've found that simply using "common sense" and being familiar with the weapon is enough for most folks.

All other trespasses tend to be self correcting. ;) (with edged weapons)

[conw]

What is viewed as common sense by some, may not be apparent to someone who is handling your knife and isn't used to using very sharp pocket knives. These are meant more to clarify and organize, than to instruct "old hands." I think, like the 4 rules for firearms, they should be emphasized during teaching (whether kids, or older newbies).

[Bobson]

I'm thinking I may have never learned to use a knife properly, and just got lucky year after year... either that, or completely misunderstanding this rule.

You must rely upon locking mechanisms, but the rule should be not to put pressure on the back of the knife so that it might close on your fingers/hand.
What exactly does this rule mean? How are you supposed to use a knife to cut something without applying pressure to the back of the knife?

[conw]

Should read spine of the knife, good catch. Of course that should have been clear from the part that added "such that it could close on your fingers or hand." :scrutiny:

[Bobson]

Should read spine of the knife, good catch. Of course that should have been clear from the part that added "such that it could close on your fingers or hand." :scrutiny:
Nah, I wasn't trying to catch anything - I was actually confused. I had to look up "which part of the knife is the spine" just now before I even knew what you meant. Makes sense now though.

Just pretend I wasn't here lol. :uhoh:

[conw]

No, thanks for your input. I made a change that improved clarity.

[Flintknapper]

Conwict wrote:

What is viewed as common sense by some, may not be apparent to someone who is handling your knife and isn't used to using very sharp pocket knives.



If the person is not intuitive enough to know that sharp edges (and points) require careful handling (and maybe even a little inspection) BEFORE use…then they lack common sense, period.

Work more on instilling “common sense” in people and less on making “rules” and we end up with a better product (a thinking man).


If a person chooses to ignore the dictates of “common sense” (I.E. keep the sharp edges away from yourself by whatever means necessary), then the resulting injury becomes the “lesson” and the problem “self-correcting” as alluded to in my previous post.

These are meant more to clarify and organize, than to instruct "old hands." I think, like the 4 rules for firearms, they should be emphasized during teaching (whether kids, or older newbies).


Not to diminish the need/desirability of safety while handling or using edged weapons, but I am not convinced we need “rules” (with their own numbers) in order to achieve it.

Not all of the “rules” would even apply to certain knife types or fighting techniques. Additionally, certain risks are acceptable, though I understand your endeavor to minimize them.

[conw]

I'm not sure I see which rules must necessarily be foregone in order to defend onself with a knife.

Whether or not you feel something is common sense, doesn't mean it's a good idea to let someone (e.g. a kid) cut himself/herself. I do agree we don't necessarily need numbered rules...but it's worked well with guns. Knives generally can't injure people as easily and badly as guns, but my point with the post is more that I don't think safety is taught as systematically as with guns, and that - to me - is a bad thing.

[Owen Sparks]

You should never put any part of your body in the direction of the blade in case something suddenly slips or gives. My brother-in-law stuck his hand into the blade of a table saw like this and it was ugly. A lot of people get hurt cutting toward themselves in the same way. Always think,

"if something gives will I hit the blade or will the blade hit me?"

This will take care of 99% of knife accidents. For example, a couple of quotes from above are covered by this:

"A dropped knife has no handle."

"Do not put backward pressure on the spine of the knife such that it could close on your fingers or hand, regardless of locking mechanism."

These "rules" both are based on avoiding putting part of your body in the potential path of the blade.

conwict is worried about the safety of others. If you must cut in close proximity to other people the rule could be modified thusly:

NEVER CUT TOWARDS YOURSELF OR OTHERS.

[Flintknapper]

Its really very simple, one rule:

Keep the sharp edge (and point) off of YOURSELF or anything else you don't intend to cut/stab.

How that is ACHIEVED is where the common sense comes into play and the "techniques" for doing so can be taught (and should be).

Pointing out where the potential for trouble lies (to someone yet unfamiliar) is great (better than learning the hard way), but I think the idea of trying to apply "rules" to knife handling in the same manner as you would firearms... won't get you the desired results. Too many variables.

If you intend to instruct people (and apparently you are) make sure they have the mental capacity, maturity and common sense necessary.... before letting them handle a knife in your presence. Otherwise, they don't get to participate.

I have had to turn away more than one person that I thought presented a danger to themselves or me. Just part of it.

[wheelgunslinger]

pointy end toward enemy/object to be cut.

[zhyla]

I've found that simply using "common sense" and being familiar with the weapon is enough for most folks.

All other trespasses tend to be self correcting. ;) (with edged weapons)

I agree. The reason the "four rules" of firearms safety exist is because a mistake with a firearm can kill someone.

Mishaps with knives rarely get you anything worse than a few stitches and a dumb look on your face. Which is why I won't bother memorizing any rule other than "be careful, that's sharp."

[Owen Sparks]

Safety rules have to be trained to the point that they are instinctive. After a while it just becomes part of you.

[heron]

Think before you act.

Sounds simple, and it is, but too many people don't do it.

[Marlin60Man]

As far as the safety of others is concerned: The Blood Circle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_circle

Keep other people outside of the circle.


The only real rule I observe with knives is not using my hand as a cutting board. Common sense is one thing, but I've seen no shortage of intelligent people try to cut something in their hand, and go straight down through into their palm. Your hand is not a cutting board!

Some might see this as a common sense thing, but on the other hand, some people just don't appreciate how quickly and easily a sharp knife will go through something compared to the average shape of a persons' pocket knife. The first time they're handed a chef's knife, fillet knife, hunting/skinning blade... Yeah, they won't appreciate how sharp it really is.

[conw]

Interesting concept M60M. I have never articulated it but definitely stay out of that circle with all but a few people when knives are being used.

[twofifty]

Think things through before you act.

[twofifty]

or

What if?

[JohnKSa]

I'll give it a shot.

Rule 1: When not actually using a knife, sheath it or fold it or otherwise cover/shield the cutting edge. NEVER walk or run with a knife that is opened/unsheathed.

Rule 2: Chopping or vigorous cutting actions should be ALWAYS directed away from body parts. Any time the blade is "aimed" in the general direction of something that shouldn't be cut, the knife should be moved in small controlled motions using ONLY movements of the wrist and hand, NOT the elbow and/or shoulder.

Rule 3: Be aware that blades can break and locking mechanisms can fail. Use your knife so that if it breaks or folds unexpectedly the chance of serious injury is minimized.

[GLOOB]

Regarding the NEVER CUT TOWARD YOURSELF rule, I think some people take this too literally. Cutting towards yourself can give you a great amount of control. If you aim it right and keep the tip pointed away and your off thumb clear, it can be very safe. If the knife runs away from you, you'll just thump yourself in the midsection with the butt end, first.