[CatsDieNow]

I can finally afford to purchase my first CCW. I am female and have little hands, so this narrows things down considerably. I have been researching my options for a couple of months and decided to consider a Kahr MK9 or PM9 among others.

The problem is that I can't actually find one of these to examine. I have been to no less than 10 gun shops (in both TX and IN) no one has any in stock and doesn't know when or if they can get any. One shop said they could order it for me, but I am unwilling to do that without at least holding one first.

I have two questions:

Would anyone in the DFW area be willing to let me look at theirs? "Looking" at a range would be nifty, but not necessary. :D

Where exactly can someone built like a popsicle stick carry a mouse gun? For me, this IS full-size. It just seems like anyplace I put this, I will just end up looking like I have a gun-shaped tumor.

Any help would be appriciated.

[Onslaught]

Sorry, I can't help you with the "looking" part, cuz I'm nowhere near DFW, but I will share my impressions of the MK9.

It's a super little pistol, although a tad heavy for it's size. I bought my wife one for CCW when we were still dating, and it's her absolute favorite pistol of all time. She likes her P99 too, but nothing is better than the Kahr for her.

As for carry, I'd think something in a bellyband or Kramer confidant T-shirt holster would be the way to go.

I would at least consider the PM9 for it's 10 ounces lighter weight, and the slimmer grip as well.

I'll be the first to admit that I had lots of problems with Kahr Polymer pistols, but so far, it seems like they finally got it right with the PM9. All I hear are occasional cosmetic issues. No malfunction problems.

Good luck... Nice username!

[M1911]

Cats: Sorry, I'm not in the DFW area. If you come up to the BOS area, you can try my MK9. One concern that I would have is that the recoil spring on the MK9 is pretty stiff. I know that most of the women students that I've had would not have been able to cycle the slide or lock the slide open. My wife certainly can't.

You may well have stronger hands then they did. If you can't find an MK9 in your area, I'd suggest that you try to find a K9 or K40 and see if you can cycle the slide and lock the slide open. Realize then that the MK9 recoil spring will be somewhat stiffer than that. So if you have trouble with the K9 or K40, then you'll know that the MK9 is right out.

[Fiveshooter]

I am in the Dallas Area and have a MK40 Elite 98 with night sights.
You can find what you are looking for in stock at Bauchman Guns in Dallas (214) 351 3628. Ask for Gene if he is in. If you don't get what you want there you will see some At Docs tables at the Big Town gun show on Febuary 8th and 9th. Big Town gun show is held in Mesquite Texas.
Now about your handle:uhoh: I would be glad to meet with you and even let you shoot my MK40 but I am a Cat fan having two of my own so I am afraid our personalities may clash:) You will like the little Kahr and the Elite 98 version has an extra nice looking finish. I would recomend the MK version over the Poly gun as the MK9 has proven to be more reliable. Reliability in a self defense weapon is more important than lighter weight.
At any rate best of luck with what ever you choose and please don't KILL any CATS.:uhoh:

Best Regards and God Bless,
Billy

[CatsDieNow]

Fiveshooter,

Doh! Totally forgot about gun shows. I think I'll see if I can find Mesquite next weekend. If any THR folks will be there, I'd sure like to meet them.

The day I created my handle was coincidently the same day my former roommate's cat decided to have its litter of kittens in the middle of my bed (despite my locked bedroom door). This same cat also scared me half to death by learning to say my name while I home alone and spent the better part of the night doing so. Evil little creatures, but I have no intentions of harming them.

M1911,

I'll be sure to check the slide out. Thanks for the tip.

Onslaught,

I looked at that T-shirt holster, but it's not really my size and somewhat pricey at $43 for the XS ones. Doesn't sound like much but it would get pretty rank if you had only one.

[Shooter 2.5]

I live in Mesquite and I go to the show quite a bit. There is a company normally on the right side as you walk in the door that sells Galco holsters. I bought three of them and my son bought one. They have a tent style exhibit but I don't know the name of the company. The lady who owns the company is knowledgable.

There is also a company run by a lady who sells the gun fanny packs. I asked how fast is the fanny pack and she had a squirt gun shoved up my nose by the time I finished asking.

My favorite holster is the Galco Royal Guard. I hate the Summer Special because of the straight angle.

[M1911]

I'll be sure to check the slide out. Thanks for the tip.Glad to help. I'm also glad that you didn't take offense. I'm not in any way trying to belittle women -- there's more than a few who could kick my skinny (er, used to be skinny) little behind. It's just a practical matter that I've found that many (not all) women don't have the arm and hand strength to operate some semi-autos. And the MK9 is one of the stiffer ones around. I'd hate to see you spend a bunch of money on a gun that just doesn't work for you.

M1911

[bad_dad_brad]

The MK9 is a great little pistol. I have one. I have small hands for a man, and any one with small hands will find the MK9 quite handy and easy to shoot. It's weight is a plus for the feminine hand, as it makes it more controlable. But the slide spring is pretty stiff.

I would say that you should probably try to see and handle one before buying.

A trick to racking the slide, that I think anyone could do. Drop the magazine. Hold the pistol by the grip in your right hand. Put your left over the slide and use both hands to move the frame forward and the slide backward, and then with your right thumb, engage the slide stop. Put the mag in, slightly pull back on the slide, and let go.

The PM9 is pretty light. I have handled them, and imagine, they kick pretty good.

I have carried the MK9 in the pocket with an Uncle Mike holster, although it is a bit heavy for that. It would fit quite nicely in a fanny pack or purse.

[Zundfolge]

I carry my MK40 in an Action Direct Defender (belly band) and it's extremely discrete and very comfortable. Only downside is belly bands wear out faster then leather (which is why I ordered an Alessi Talon Plus from Lou Alessi, which should be here any day now).

http://www.action-direct.com/defender.htm (I have the model M2B)

[Alan Fud]

I have to agree, an inside the waist belly band from Action-Direct (note: if you buy more than one, they will customize it in the color of your choice inside of the regular black one ... be sure to ask for the customer service department instead of sales). While I live no where near you so I can't let you hold one, maybe the following photos of my MK9 next to some of my other guns will give you a better idea of it's size ...
http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f45.jpg
http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f46.jpg
http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f64.jpg

http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/port2-jj.jpg (http://www.FamilyFriendsFirearms.com/) » www.FamilyFriendsFirearms.com (http://www.FamilyFriendsFirearms.com) «
Alan Fud: Share What You Know & Learn What You Don't.

[Jeff OTMG]

Cats, I have an MK9 and will be in Dallas this weekend for the boat show. I will be in Friday night, staying at the Rennaisance Hotel across the parking lot from Market Hall. I have the MK8, K40 Covert, and P9 Covert. I can bring what you would like to see and you can hit the range while I hit the show. Email me if you are interested.

[CatsDieNow]

Jeff OTMG,

Thank you for your generous offer, but my professors have killed my plans for going anywhere except the library this weekend. :( I'm going to try for the gun show in Mesquite next week.

M1911,

No offense taken, I have been female all my life and I am well aware of my limited physical strength. If you and Bad_dad_brad say it might be a problem, then I definitly want to shoot a few rounds through it.

Alan Fud,

Umm...well, I haven't ever held any of those other guns either. ;)

[ajacobs]

A trick to racking the slide, that I think anyone could do. Drop the magazine. Hold the pistol by the grip in your right hand. Put your left over the slide and use both hands to move the frame forward and the slide backward, and then with your right thumb, engage the slide stop. Put the mag in, slightly pull back on the slide, and let go.

That is a good way to do it but you should not purchase the gun if that is the only way you can rack the slide. What if you have to clear a stopage during an engagement?

[hogan]

DFW Gun Range on Mockingbird near I-35E usually has a selection of Kahr pistols to rent/try and buy. The Winchester Gallery on 820 and 180 in Fort Worth has a K9 to try at its shooting range (The Shooting Gallery) and some Kahrs for sale at the store, though I can't remember which models for sale.

[Michigun]

CatsDieNow, You have already received some great advice on the Kahr… I’ll only add that I purchased a Kahr K9 for my (Very small & petite.) wife & now own a PM9 myself because of the K9 buy. She shoots & operates the K9 very well, but she hasn’t had the chance to shoot my PM9 yet. I would say that the PM9’s slide is harder to operate then the K9 from my own experience.

You asked about ‘carry” options too… have you looked into “purse carry”? This is the only way my wife does it, because she wasn’t willing to give up her current wardrobe or pick clothing around a gun. “Purse carry” was a good compromise all-around.

If you “purse carry” you’ll have a lot more options as to what you can actually “carry” size & gun type wise. I know the larger K9 “carries” very well in my wife’s purse.

I live in Michigan so letting you shoot any of my guns will make things… well… pretty difficult! ;)

We would get along great though……. I don’t care for cats at all!

Here kiddy, kiddy, kiddy… here kiddy, kiddy……. (silence)… BOOM!!! :evil: :D

[Onslaught]

Lots of folks have said that someone they know (usually female) has had trouble pulling back the slide on an MK9. I believe this completely, and I am not arguing or doubting anyone in any way. I would genuinely just like to figure out what's different here.

My wife is in NO way a physically strong woman. This isn't an insult, because she is quite shapely, she just doesn't have an ounce of muscle tone on her entire body. She has long, extremely slender, fragile looking fingers... I've wrestled around with her many times, and she has no exceptional or noteable strength that I have ever encountered. I am always opening baby food jars, pickle jars, etc for her.

BUT, she has absolutely no problem pulling the slide of her MK9 fully rearward. :confused: She's done it with no problems ever since the very first time she fired it. It's a very early model, so maybe the springs were weaker?

I don't really know the answer, but I wish we could find someone around here who's wife/girlfriend couldn't pull the slide back on their MK9, so we could get together and compare. Is it the pistol, the springs, or something else I'm missing?

I wonder, has anyone done any experimenting with lighter recoil springs on the baby Kahrs? I know they had a K9 that was a "Lady-something" version with a lighter recoil spring and trigger mechanism... Perhaps Kahr could give some advice on lighter springs? If you didn't use +P ammo, then I'm sure you could go lighter on the springs.

At any rate, don't go into this thing expecting not to be able to pull that slide back, because I guarantee you won't be able to if you think that way. If my wife can do it, you can too.

The MK9 is a great pistol, and a perfect choice for many females, so I hate to hear that so many can't operate it.

[CatsDieNow]

Michigun,

I have never carried a purse. Seems kind of silly to walk around with all of your important stuff convieniently in one easily identifiable package.

I spent the better part of twenty years in Mishawaka, IN and still get home occasionally.

As I said before, I do not intentionally harm the monsters, but I feel absolutly no grief for any flat cats I see in the road. :p

[Michigun]

"Seems kind of silly to walk around with all of your important stuff conveniently in one easily identifiable package."

I have 2 words for ya... "purse retention"! :)

She has always had a purse so "purse carry" was easy.

How about a "arss pack"?

[hogan]

Cats, in rereading some of the posts about recoil spring tension it occurred to me to mention that the "Covert" line of Kahrs is nearly the same size as the MK and PM lines but has a .5 inch longer barrel and may be a little easier to pull. Also they are quite concealable due to the same length grip. DFW Gun Range had Coverts available when I last went there (about a year ago). My wife (5'8" and fairly strong) has some difficulty racking my MK40. She also doesn't practice all aspects of gun handling nearly enough so I got her a small, hammerless revolver (Taurus 650). However she qualified for her CHL with a Glock 22 which she handled very well. (She scored 8 points higher than I did on the shooting test!)

[Alan Fud]

CatsDieNow: ... I haven't ever held any of those other guns either ...If you name a common item that we both might have (pen, coins, etc.), I'll take a photo of the MK9 next to it for comparison purposes for ya ;)

[tomkatz]

My wife has no exceptional strength either(I do the jar opening thing etc. all the time for her too)she is 115 lbs. soaking wet, and she has no problem racking the slide on her k9. After she tried a few different guns she kept coming back to my k9, so it became hers. She loves it, we both work for a school district so work carry is not an option. Other times she carries in a small bianchi belly bag. Like Onslaught said, try one out, but go into it confident that you can do it.....tom

[Zundfolge]

My wife is quite strong ... stronger then many men we know. She practices martial arts, lifts weights and works out religiously yet she has a heck of a time racking any semi auto.

I am convinced that this problem some women have with racking slides on autos is in their head. I think my wife is still a little afraid of the gun and isn't comfortable gripping it tightly and giving it a good yank (either afraid it will "go off" or afraid it will bite, I'm not sure).

[CatsDieNow]

Actually, I've always thought that the jar opening problem had more to do with the anatomy of my small hand than the lack of upper body strength. I just can't get a good grip on them...wrap that lid in a dishtowel and it pops right off.

Maybe the same is true for handgun slides.

[Michigun]

Yes, but if you wrap a handgun slide in a dishtowel, you run the risk of getting it caught up in everything… kidding… :)

[Shooter 2.5]

Cats,

The company that makes the fanny packs with the built in holster is Conceal 'N Draw.

The company I buy my Galco holsters from is S&S Holsters.

Both companies should be at the Mesquite show. Good for you for not keeping a gun in a purse.

[Michigun]

"Good for you for not keeping a gun in a purse."

You talk about "fanny packs", but yet you say this? Please explain.

[CatsDieNow]

Yeah, I thought of that as soon as I hit the submit button. :p

Smaller fluting (is that what those grooves are called?) would be nice though.

[Michigun]

Are you talking about "slide serrations"?

[Handy]

Another slide technique for extra leverage:

With a normal firing hold, point weapon to left (if right handed). Put the meaty part of the non-firing hand over the main bulk of the slide and squeeze tightly with fingers (the muzzle will be pointing in the same direction as you left elbow). Bring the weapon close to your chest and push your hands toward each other. This allows you to use chest, shoulder and arm muscles and is similar to the "jar opening" motion, without the twist. Uses the palms, keeps you fingers from getting scratched.

This position should also make it easy to push up on the slide latch, which is a good idea because you are likely covering the ejection port with your left. Extract the loaded round by hand. Do not point the weapon directly at your body during the process.

This is not a great technique for IDPA matches, but gives more leverage on a slide than anything else.

[Shooter 2.5]

Michigun.

The only time I use a fanny pack is when I'm on a bike. I also keep it over my right hip since I'm left handed.

All of the other times, the pistol is in the IWB holster.

Compare that to a woman who leeps a pistol in her purse. Also, remember there is an entire breed of criminals called "purse snatchers".

[bad_dad_brad]

Cats,

If the MK9 does not work out, consider a Lady S&W .38 revolver, a Ruger SP101 .38 revolver, or if you still want a semi-automatic, the Beretta Cheetah in .380 with a tip up barrel.

The 86FS Cheetah is a semi-automatic that you do not have to rack the slide to chamber the weapon. Like the Beretta Jetfire, Tomcat, and Bobcat, the 86FS model of the Cheetah has a tip up barrel. You just flip a little lever and the breach of the barrel tips up. You can then just drop a cartridge in, push the barrel down, and you are ready to go. I have recommended this quality pistol to several women who had trouble operating a semi-automatic slide. From the Beretta web site:

86 FS Cheetah._
This is the only .380 pistol on the market that offers a convenient tip-up barrel. This unique Beretta feature permits easy, direct chamber loading and unloading without operating the slide.The fixed barrel of the Model 86FS Cheetah is attached directly to the frame and ensures outstanding accuracy. The matte black finish is embellished with the distinctive gold trigger and walnut grips._

[Handy]

Well, it's not a unique Beretta feature, but I think Beretta is the only one who makes a .380 like that.

[Novcon]

Cats:

I live about 1 1/2 hours from South Bend and happen to own a MK9 Elite, you are welcome to shoot mine if you like. The local range is about 10 minutes from my house. If you want to try it out, just send me an E-mail and let me know when you will be in the area.

P.S. my wife is 4'7" and has had 2 strokes and she can rack the slide with some effort. The strokes have made her left arm very weak.

[mini14jac]

My wife and daughters have slight frames, but they have learned how to rack the slide on any semi-auto.

The secret is to exert force with both hands.
Grip the slide with one hand, and as you are pulling the slide back with that hand, shove the grip away with the other hand.
Do it quickly, and let the slide snap forward when it is all the way back.
Even my 90lb. 16 year old was able to do it! :D

As for carry, consider the fanny pack, a concealment purse, or just a good sturdy purse with lots of pockets.

My wife has a KelTec P32 that she had me install the pocket clip on.
It clips inside the waist of her jeans and disappears.

I had a MK9 that I loved, but found it too heavy for me to carry.
(That made it a joy to shoot though.)

I now have a PM9 that I love.
In all but the tightest jeans, it carries nicely in a pocket.
Pleated slacks are even better at concealing the gun.
You will have an easier time carrying in a pocket than most of us guys do, because women generally have more of an "hourglass" shape, which helps keep your pants up.

We guys tend to be more "wineglass" shaped. :rolleyes:

Many of us here on THR are involved in the life-long search for the "perfect" carry gun.
That is half the fun!

[Michigun]

"Also, remember there is an entire breed of criminals called "purse snatchers"."

I'll defiantly agree that concealing under clothing on your body is the better way... however "purse carry" can very effective, especially if done correctly. I wasn’t kidding when I talked about “purse retention”. “Purse retention” also makes you a hard target for the “purse snatcher”.

You have to remember here, you have to find a “carry system” that works for you, because “having a gun” is one of the most important things for self-defense.

Galco makes a whole line of purses build for CCW… easy gun access, great retention, good looks, etc, etc…

There are classes out there that teach ladies how to carry a purse to ovoid “snatching”.

[M1911]

I don't really know the answer, but I wish we could find someone around here who's wife/girlfriend couldn't pull the slide back on their MK9, so we could get together and compare. Is it the pistol, the springs, or something else I'm missing?My wife is about 105 lbs. Not much upper body strength. She can retract the slide on a K9, but even after I put a Lady K9 spring in it, she can't lock it open to save her life.

Actually, now that I think about it, I suspect part of the problem is finger length. It's easy for me to reach the slide stop with my right thumb while the gun is in my right hand. I can easily push up on the slide stop with my right thumb. She can't. If she pivots her right hand around enough so that she can push up on the slide stop with her right thumb, then the backstrap is pushing against her fingers, not her palm, which is much weaker.

[CatsDieNow]

I want to thank you guys for all your advice. I now have a much better idea of what to look for. My plan is to do some more research at Mesquite.

Novcon: I expect to be going home in 6 weeks or so. I'll shoot you an email when I do.