Just how innacurate is your Mosin 91/30?


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jon86
January 25, 2012, 07:01 PM
I keep reading about the terrible accuracy of the mosin nagant. Just how accurate is yours? Can you hit a paper plate out to 200 yards? 300?

Just thinking out loud here, the 91/30 is one of the cheapest rifles out there. Millions of people own them. I'm willing to bet that a lot of people that own them cannot shoot very well anyway.

So, to the experts and marksman here at THR, I thought I'd ask what kind of groups are possible with the average 91/30. The reason I'm curious is because I might be interested in picking one up to use as an inexpensive paper puncher. The rifle is cheap, the ammo is cheap, but if I can't hit anything with it then it's no good to me. Thanks in advance.

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7.62x51NATO
January 25, 2012, 07:05 PM
Should hold 3-5 moa depending on what ammo, some surplus is better than others, but I don't shoot the surplus stuff anyway. However, that's just an estimate, I'm sure there are many examples that shoot better than 3-5 moa with surplus and iron sights, paper plates at 200 should be no problem, 300 you can probably do it, again this is a guess, I've only shot my mosin at 300 with a scope and handloads so...just my .02$

nathan
January 25, 2012, 07:10 PM
Depends on how tight the bore is. They can achieve 2 inch groups at 100 yds no doubt if bore is tight and with the right conditions. And most important the shooter and ammo - barrel harmonics.

snakeman
January 25, 2012, 07:23 PM
I only shot mine a few times so far but it put 5 shots into about an inch at 60 yards. Don't know if that helps but I just haven't been able to shoot much at all lately.

Cal-gun Fan
January 25, 2012, 07:25 PM
Their accuracy isn't terrible at all and can easily be made better by things like corking the barrel and polishing the trigger. However, a lot of owners don't bother to do that and just rant about them.

Tempest 455
January 25, 2012, 07:28 PM
Depends on rifle. Some of mine are better than others. My M44 is really accurate. My father in-law got one from AIM recently that I swear was never issued. All we did was lengthen the front sight post and it was very accurate at 100Y.

holdencm9
January 25, 2012, 07:41 PM
Not as inaccurate as me!

IROCZ
January 25, 2012, 07:41 PM
On mine (3) it depends heavily on the ammo. Milsurp Ruskie is disappointing but S&B makes nice little 2-3 inch groups at 100 yards if I do my part, and use a good rest...

Onmilo
January 25, 2012, 08:06 PM
I have found mine to be comparable to other military rifle designs from the era.

armoredman
January 25, 2012, 08:08 PM
I don't have a Mosin any more, but I did have a 1920 Tula that shot MOA easily with handloads. Miss that old warhorse.

cleardiddion
January 25, 2012, 08:10 PM
Haters are gonna hate.

Mine used to shoot right around in the 2.5 to 3in range.
But, I put some slices of cork under the barrel and found ammo that my 91/30 likes (Bulgarian light ball) and now I get 1.5-2in on a fairly regular basis. We once went out and shot mine at 895m just to see if we could and we managed to an appx. man-sized rock at that distance on a fairly regular basis.

Craigman
January 25, 2012, 08:19 PM
I dont shoot for groups with mine (91/30). Too many ammo variables, and I have other guns for that purpose. When I did have good ammo though, I could hit a 6" steel plate almost every time at 200yds and over half at 300 and 1 in 5 or so at 400. This was all freehand and others that were shooting it too, novices, were pretty much in the ballpark of same accuracy. I dont remember what ammo it was now:banghead:

I think they shoot just fine

wmcc75
January 25, 2012, 09:17 PM
mine shoots just fine around 3in groups at 100yrds with surplus ammo. most of the time the rifle shoots better than I do :uhoh:

Phaethon
January 25, 2012, 09:25 PM
I agree, for many people Mosins represent their only, or first high calibre rifle platform. They're an un-ergonomic rifle, optimized for Soviet infantrymen wearing thick winter clothing, and don't have the most precise sights. I expect that many people complaining of their accuracy aren't shooting that well to begin with. They also typically shoot inexpensive surplus ammunition that's at least 30-40 years old (this is, after all, another selling point for the rifle).

I fall under the category of an inexperienced shooter myself; with that said, my 1943 rough wartime production Tula can produce three to four inch groups at a hundred yards when I shoot some PPU ammo. This is about on par with what I can achieve with a 1939 VZ-24 at a hundred yards, so I'm inclined to believe that Mosins are reasonably well manufactured rifles, since I know my Mauser is capable of better.

Steel Horse Rider
January 25, 2012, 09:41 PM
I don't shoot paper with mine but I can hit a 12" dia gong at 300yds about 75% of the time and a 24"x 30" steel plate at 580 yds about 50% of the time using the original sights shooting from a table rest. It is just plain fun!

LoonWulf
January 25, 2012, 09:47 PM
worst group ive gotten was 6"s from some surplus ammo i dont even remember the name of. I never bought it again, even if it was 1/2 the cost of my handloads. With handloads, Prvi, and Igman, Worst group ive gotten was 1.5"s at 100 scoped, unscoped im lucky to hold 4"s. I can hit a bowling pin every shot from any supported position, besides standing, at 250.

Dmitri Popov
January 25, 2012, 10:00 PM
Mines more accurate than I am. Just saying.

jpwilly
January 25, 2012, 10:16 PM
Here's my 91/30 at 100 yrds with surplus from sandbags this is better than the M44 and M38 I own by a inch or two with the same ammo. This type of group indicates loose fittings or a stock bedding issue IMO. The rifle could probably shoot better if I fixed it:

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/jpwilly/PU9130Scopebest.jpg

I have an EX PU M91/30 and also just picked up a Finnish M39 mfg by SAKO last week that I have yet to shoot...hopeing to do better we'll see.

Here's the M39
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/jpwilly/DSC_0024.jpg

SlowFuse
January 25, 2012, 10:31 PM
I have one Mosin that I guess I got lucky with. It holds a 1.5" group all day at 100 with Czech silver tips. Others are more like 2.5" to 3"

montanaoffroader
January 25, 2012, 10:41 PM
Haven't shot mine for group, but it shoots minute of soda can at 100 yards from a bench. Smoothed the trigger a bit but otherwise original. I may pick up another one just because..........;)

ball3006
January 25, 2012, 11:13 PM
I have several scout scoped rifles that will shoot one inch or better with Privi 150 gr sp......Old eyes make me use a scope....chris3

Ian Johnson
January 25, 2012, 11:21 PM
i had one that i really liked that I traded off to a friend and we could easily hit coke cans with it out to 60yards off hand and milk jugs offhand at 100 was very easy but it shot high even at 100, never put it on paper though, regretted trading it so much that I picked up another one from cabelas last week havent shot it yet though

fatcat4620
January 25, 2012, 11:34 PM
Sewer pipe bore+ bad shot+ new gun owner= very bad press on internet
Great bore+ great shot+ avid gun owner= good groups but this person does not care to post it on the internet since he his busy handloading his 30.06 springfield to shoot sub one inch groups.

jpwilly
January 25, 2012, 11:35 PM
I have one Mosin that I guess I got lucky with. It holds a 1.5" group all day at 100 with Czech silver tips. Others are more like 2.5" to 3"

That is better than the average Mosin for sure and would agree 2.5-4 MOA seems par for the course. The thing is the triggers are lousy, the sights aren't that good, the ammo is very old, the stocks are soft and worn in the bedding areas. We should jump for joy that they will even group that well.

35 Whelen
January 25, 2012, 11:53 PM
I'd REALLY like to see pictures of the targets with 100 yd., 1.5" groups from a Mosin and surplus ammo. It might happen once, but I doubt over and over.

I've owned, modified, loaded for and fired quite a few of these. They all seem to possess about the same level of accuracy with none of them being terrible, and some standing out a little.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Mosins/Grouplabeled.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Mosins/groupfix.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Mosins/IMG_0057.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Mosins/Group.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Mosins/M44100ydgroup-1.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Mosins/Groupsfloat-1.jpg

I finally got tired of trying to get shells in the magazine, manipulate the mini-bolt handle, etc. and sold all of mine. I just couldn't find a practical use for them, even the one I heavily modified. But, they are kind of fun to plink with!

35W

bjamesM1
January 26, 2012, 12:13 AM
I'm fairly new to shooting and wouldn't consider myself any great shot. My 13 year old son and I shoot our 91/30 at our range that has steel gongs at 200, 300, 400, 500. We easily smack the 200 most of the time. Shooter error has us missing on occasion. He falls off my pace a little at 300, but I'd say I would be able to hit the target 6-7 times out of 10 (open sites).

I can hit the 400, but I drop off quite a bit there.

I'd blame my eyes and skills for 99% of any of those misses.

Accurate enough and fun enough for me.

TenDriver
January 26, 2012, 12:21 AM
I can bust clays at 200 yds with mine. Bulgarian? surplus ammo.

bjamesM1
January 26, 2012, 12:11 PM
I bust clays at 100 and just go for the steels at 200! Too far to walk!

303 hunter
January 26, 2012, 09:46 PM
Look for a pre or post war rifle. The mosins made during wartime were hastily produced with little attention to detail. I have a 1932 hex receiver Tula that will shoot 1.5-2" groups at 100 meters. If you can find Polish surplus ammo, try it. The accuracy is much better than Russian.

SlowFuse
January 28, 2012, 10:49 PM
Here you go 35whelen. You're lucky I had a nice day to punch a few pcs of paper. A little on the windy side but a very nice day today. This is from my 91/30, 1927 is the year, hex receiver. This is using Romanian 149 grain sitting in a lead sled.

http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo67/SloFoFo/utf-8BSmVtaXNvbi0yMDEyMDEyOC0wMDE0OS5qcGc.jpg

http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo67/SloFoFo/utf-8BSmVtaXNvbi0yMDEyMDEyOC0wMDE0Ni5qcGc.jpg

morcey2
January 29, 2012, 12:32 AM
My Finn-capture 91/30 will do 2" groups easily... If I'm not the one shooting it. That's with Russian surplus 148 grain ammo. I'm thinking about getting a set of mojo sights for it and seeing what it can do with some handloads. I think most of the refurbs can outshoot the person shooting them.

Matt

smithman 10
January 29, 2012, 12:32 AM
Was shooting my 1891/59 today with surplus ammo. From a solid rest at 100 yards. My groups were, let's say larger than I would like -BUT I shot it just as well as my M-1 Garand from CMP (Danish VAR barrel). I shot both of them better 10 years ago.

64 year old eyes and iron sights at 100 yds - hard to get tight groups but I believe the Mosin Nagant is capable of all you need out of a military rifle.

And that Garand gets heavier every year! That's why I like shooting the Mosin carbine more as the years go by - nice and light.

TurtlePhish
January 29, 2012, 12:41 AM
Finnish rifle teams used to win competitions with unmodified WWII M39s.

DCoke
January 29, 2012, 01:43 AM
No problems reaching out to 600 yds with iron sights either...can hit the gong at that range half the time and hit the gong at 300 yds 80% of the time....hit 200 yd gong 100% of the time.....that's no lead sled and bench firing....it depends on the rifle, the shooter and the ammo...I use all surplus....but that isn't a bad thing...until it comes time to clean the rifle afterwards...then I pay for it in elbow grease.

shiftyer1
January 29, 2012, 02:01 AM
I haven't shot mine past 100yards because I can't see past that but at 100 yards I can hit a 1/2 gallon milk jug everytime.

35 Whelen
January 29, 2012, 02:07 AM
Here you go 35whelen. You're lucky I had a nice day to punch a few pcs of paper. A little on the windy side but a very nice day today. This is from my 91/30, 1927 is the year, hex receiver. This is using Romanian 149 grain sitting in a lead sled.

Nice group and nice rifle. Is that a 100 yd. group? No offense, but it seems to me it be darn near impossible to see the 1/4" lines or the little 1" square on that target with open sights at 100 yds.

35W

caribou
January 29, 2012, 02:43 AM
The highest scoreing Sniper in the World use a Mosin Nagant. ask 800+ Dead Russians how accurate they are, as well as in the Olympics, and Russian Snipers during WWII killed Thousands of Germas.

I make a living with mine, and I'm very interested, because only acurate rifles are interesting.

HavelockLEO
January 29, 2012, 12:04 PM
I have two Russian 91/30's ones got a sewer pipe counter bored barrel, the other a pretty decent shiney bore, both are pretty accurate. My Finns on the other hand, one captured 91/30 and a scoped M39 are more accurate than my 03A3, I do more plinking with the counter bored sewer pipe though, just cause, lol

SlowFuse
January 29, 2012, 12:12 PM
Thanks 35. It's my favorite milsurp. By far the best shooting of the group I have. I have another 91/30 that averages 2.5 to 3 no matter the ammo or the time spent to punch a nice group. Also a 1944 that's about the same, I'd sayaround 3" at best. I don't blame you for not believing something a random person is stating on the internet. Its the best way to be I guess. But no fairy tales here. As far as yardage, it wasn't lasered but stepped off at 125 paces, which I figure is close. Its more like wherever a good level spot is to set my table up. And yes, sight post covers up a good portion of part of the target, but I guess you just learn to overcome stuff like that.

mgregg85
January 29, 2012, 01:34 PM
I haven't shot mine on paper yet but I can peg milk jugs at 100 yards so Minute Of Milk Jug.

CZguy
January 29, 2012, 01:57 PM
After I got a M39 (Valment) I sold all of the other Mosens. The Finn's are a much better rifle.

This way I can still shoot the surplus ammo, but with accuracy.

crazy4milsurps
January 29, 2012, 09:43 PM
As much as I love the 91/30, for me it makes a better club than rifle. I've had 6-7 over the years and not one of them matched my Lee's accuracy.

jpwilly
January 30, 2012, 01:26 AM
2MOA seems rater inaccurate to me.

Most battle rifles are 2-4 MOA and 2MOA is good for a WWII rifle! They weren't shooting paper targets after all.

BemidjiDweller
January 30, 2012, 02:07 AM
My mosin's seem to be accurate, but I haven't done any benchrest paper punching with them. They are minute of old engine parts at 100 yards so far.

MilsurpShooter
January 31, 2012, 06:50 PM
As long as I do my part she does her's. PU Scoped 91/30 from 1923. I think Hungarian surplus, copper washed steel case with yellow tip. Took her out after a snowstorm to make her feel at home, was probably about 17 degree's outside and she shot like a champ

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk277/Teutonic_Knight_Funnay/Stuff/Range%20Trips/DSC00064.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk277/Teutonic_Knight_Funnay/Stuff/Range%20Trips/6c961a4f.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk277/Teutonic_Knight_Funnay/Stuff/Range%20Trips/0081c92c.jpg

savage1r
January 31, 2012, 07:35 PM
Accurate enough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl3JRI75SsI)

joustin
January 31, 2012, 07:43 PM
At 100 yards mine is at least minute of German :)

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Pyro
January 31, 2012, 08:05 PM
Mine has a shorter front sight so you need to aim low almost two feet to get a 'bullseye' hit at 100 yards. It's natural for me now, just gotta know how your rifle shoots. Another fellow at the range is big on milsurp rifles, always comes over to give me a handshake for leaving the original stock on it (even though it's non-matching and in poor shape).
I can throw a fist sized group at that range given I find a decent aiming point below the target.

CZguy
January 31, 2012, 08:07 PM
At 100 yards mine is at least minute of German

Just a thought.........some of us are of German decent.

crazy4milsurps
January 31, 2012, 08:11 PM
minute of Nazi or fascist will suffice

Powerglide
January 31, 2012, 10:50 PM
All mine have been darn accurate and a couple, exceptional, even with funky ammo.

tahunua001
February 1, 2012, 04:07 AM
ok my ADHD is horrible tonight so I haven't read the whole thread.

wasn't it a 91/30 that Vasili Zaitzeff(dont know proper spelling) used at Stalingrad?

I think the main thing is that many shooters are loosing a lot of their shooting skills with iron sights and are growing more and more dependent on optics. because of my eyesight I have optics on every gun I own with the exception of my newly acquired enfield NO 4 MK 1. if I really concentrate I can hit minute of pop can but normally off hand I shoot about minute of milk jug. last time I went to the local Nazi range(not nice, I know but they have way too many rules and regs to make shooting fun anymore) the rifle range was reserved for the local mosin club and they were blasting away like they were storming berlin. I really cant see too much accuracy when you're firing 10 rounds in 20 seconds out of a bolt action...

War Squirrel
February 1, 2012, 04:45 AM
deleted

crazy4milsurps
February 1, 2012, 11:09 AM
One thing to take in, the current 7.62x54 surplus is intended for machine gun use. These rounds haven't been produced for accurate shots fired from a Mosin Nagant in a very long time.

Tempest 455
February 1, 2012, 11:34 AM
I thought Mosins were intended to be fired with the bayonet on.

Just changes POI. I adjust my sights to shoot without.

jem375
February 1, 2012, 11:39 AM
Mine sucked, gave it away at the local gun range after shooting it...

Clark
February 2, 2012, 03:36 AM
I have a dozen Mosin Nagants in various stages of modification.

I made a 5 minute video I made about testing various trigger modifications.
I show how to bend and test the sear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPn8IdNJ_SE&feature=plcp

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