Firearms without the case or manual


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intercooler
January 27, 2012, 12:51 PM
Always had/have mine. How is this viewed when buying?

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youngda9
January 27, 2012, 12:52 PM
They add some value for older firearms. The way I see it is manuals are online, and cases are cheap. They don't mean a thing to me.

I am a shooter and not a collector. No safe queens in my collection.

hogshead
January 27, 2012, 12:53 PM
If its a collectible fire arm and not a cardboard box I prefer to have them. Anything else I dont really care because I usually You Tube the takedown anyway.

Telekinesis
January 27, 2012, 12:57 PM
I like when the original case and manual/paperwork/accessories are included in the sale, but I wouldn't pay more for them to be included. The gun is the important part, and even given 2 guns, one with manual/case and one without, I'll still pick the gun in better shape over anything else. Most of my pistols tend to live in holsters anyway, so I don't have much use for the original case other than to say I have it.

intercooler
January 27, 2012, 01:02 PM
Does it mean the owner isn't real responsible? I file the manuals and keep mine in their cases at all times. Does the dog eat them?

Telekinesis
January 27, 2012, 01:26 PM
Does it mean the owner isn't real responsible? I file the manuals and keep mine in their cases at all times. Does the dog eat them?

Ever loose a piece of paper? A receipt? Maybe even a book or two? Just because the owner didn't keep a little book in a place where he could immediately get to it, doesn't mean he's irresponsible.

I don't look at the manual except for the first time or two after I take a new gun apart (if that - most combat pistols have a similar method of disassembly). I just have no immediate need for it. If you read the whole thing, its really a bunch of basic stuff that is included to give a basic idea of some of the functions of the gun and reduce legal liability of the manufacturer (lots of legalease). You don't need a manual to properly operate the gun, so a lot of people don't keep it with the gun.

As noted earlier, my pistols live in holsters and are always ready to be used. I don't need to have the manual with it to use the gun so it stays somewhere else, and there's always the possibility that it could get lost somewhere. Doesn't mean I don't know how to take care of my guns.

Part of that could be that I see my guns as tools and not really as safe queens or collectors pieces. I guess if I bought a gun with the intention of selling it later as a NIB gun or something, I would keep it all together, but other than that, I don't think I would keep the gun/manual/OEM case together.

medalguy
January 27, 2012, 01:41 PM
Depends. If the gun is a collectible gun, and it's in new condition, yes I want the box and paperwork and will pay a premium for those, but it really depends on the gun. A S&W Model 29 no dash NIB yes it's worth a premium. For a Sears .22 rifle that's been shot a lot and has scratches and dents consistent with 50 years worth of hunting, no way I'd pay a premium unless it was a difficult to clean gun and the manuals aren't available on-line.

AlexanderA
January 27, 2012, 03:32 PM
There was some discussion of this recently on AR15.com. An unfired, full automatic Colt M16 has at least $1,000 added to its going price if it has its original box, manual, sealed accessory packet, and wick in the barrel. Maybe even more than $1,000. It goes without saying that an unfired Colt goes for considerable thousands more than a generic, run-of-the-mill M16.

speedway
January 27, 2012, 04:35 PM
If it is a carry gun, it lives in a holster anyway.

If it is a higher end range gun, it better have the box.

GoWolfpack
January 27, 2012, 04:41 PM
It all depends on the buyer. It is definitely worth keeping boxes, manuals and fired casings just in case. You can justify asking more for a gun if you have all that with it. You'll lose some buyers who won't care, but there are plenty of other people around who do care and are willing to pay more for it.

Hanzo581
January 27, 2012, 04:44 PM
I keep all my cases/manuals because I am a pack rat. When I am buying I don't really care about either though, as I don't keep guns in manufacturer cases anyway and with the internet I have every manual even written.

MICHAEL T
January 27, 2012, 04:48 PM
I hate the plastic cases I don't keep them. They take up to much room. Manual I read and then not worried about what happens. To much junk comes with the new pistols .That you don't need . I haven't room or need for this stuff so it goes. Pistol is for useing not collecting . Want to collect take up stamps or coins or X wifes.

mgmorden
January 27, 2012, 05:01 PM
I've always kept all of my cases - the manuals I really, really (REALLY) couldn't care less about. They're typically thrown out shortly after purchase.

Overall though I don't view it as a negative if a used gun doesn't come with a case. I've bought many of them and only once gotten on in the original case, but I've never gotten a dud on a used handgun. I just buy a case for the gun for storage (MTM makes a "long term storage box" that is basically a plastic box that works great).

berettaprofessor
January 27, 2012, 05:23 PM
I keep the manuals in their original cases just so I can sell them or pass them down with the documentation. For that matter I keep the stupid gun locks with those that come with them (ruger, beretta's etc). But when I need to look something up, I use the electronic version which I obtain for each gun.

As a community it would be nice to have them. If Stevespage 7b ever went down, there is no other central source for that many manuals that I know of. And I've got several manuals that aren't on Stevespages...made PDF's of them but I don't know how to contact the webmaster to provide them.

Owen Sparks
January 27, 2012, 05:26 PM
If you ever think you might sell or trade KEEP THE BOX and everything that came with it. This usually helps with reasle value. I have even seen dealers at gun shows who sold empty boxes just for this purpose.

mdauben
January 27, 2012, 05:50 PM
I don't really care one way or the other, but I will take the presence or absense of such items into concideration when I looking at the price. In other words I would explect a lower price on a gun that was missing those items.

Does it mean the owner isn't real responsible? I file the manuals and keep mine in their cases at all times. Does the dog eat them?

A number of my guns came in simple carboard boxes so there are certainly better things to store them in than their original packaging. I tend to save the boxes that things come in, but some people don't have the room to store everything.

W.E.G.
January 27, 2012, 06:06 PM
Just because something is old, does not mean its valuable.

Most of the time its just old.

I have saved a few "original boxes."
This one is probably worth keeping.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/SW%20686/686-modificationmarkings.jpg

This one... not so much.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/rifle%20pics/WASR-3/brownbox4.jpg

wally
January 27, 2012, 06:18 PM
If you buy a kel-Tec make sure you keep the box, it helps with sending it back.

I like Kel-Tec's designs and their customer service, but I don't like that 2 of my 5 have had to be returned for repair (my RFB's been back three times, my P3AT only once, but they sent me a lot of parts to fix it myself to keep the return count at one).

I try to save the box and all the other stuff, but with the Century boxes, why bother, maybe they will be worth more than the guns some day because of this. :)

rellascout
January 27, 2012, 06:35 PM
If it does not have the box it loses value for me. How much depends on the gun. If it is a common place gun like a Glock it might just be a few bucks but the box still has value.

Older guns the value of the box goes up considerably. IMHO

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/rellascout/colts-5.gif

AlexanderA
January 27, 2012, 07:41 PM
I bought a new 2nd generation Colt SAA back in 1971. The box (a "stagecoach" box) was shopworn, so I threw it away. If I had the box now, even shopworn, it would add a lot of value to the gun.

mljdeckard
January 27, 2012, 07:44 PM
For modern guns, doesn't make much difference to me at all. I can find a pdf for the manual for any gun manufactired in recent memory. Just because they still have the box/case doesn't mean they took good care of it.

bruzer
January 27, 2012, 08:22 PM
HOW MUCH FOR THE AK BOX! I've always wanted one. I'll send you a cashiers check for $1000 bucks. Cash it, keep $500 for yourself and send me the box and the other $500. It's win, win for both of us.
Mike

303tom
January 27, 2012, 08:33 PM
I have bought very few that were in a box or have a manual...........

JohnBT
January 27, 2012, 08:44 PM
"Does the dog eat them?"

No, cardboard boxes were used for targets or thrown in the trash. All those inserts and ads? They're targets. I don't save a lot of boxes. I might keep an LCD tv box for 3 months in case the tv is a dud, but that's it.

John

theicemanmpls
January 27, 2012, 09:08 PM
Why a cardboard box increases the value of a firearm, is a total mystery. One can't do anything worthwhile with the box. Maybe burn it? Target practice?How about just recycle it deep within your outgoing cardboard. I sure don't want Joe the garbage man knowing I just bought a $3,000 Les Bauer.

No, on second thought. I will keep the box. I will play along with this moronic game. Maybe I can get more trade in value for the Taurus I just bought? Not! Really, how many of you keep the boxes for everything you buy?

The plastic case? Some are good for nothing. Yet, I will save it, if the pistol may in the future have some value. I think the box and case game is absurd.

Now, I can see the old Barbie Dolls in the original box as a collectors item. You could see Barbie's face through the plastic, and the box let you know what kind of Barbie you are getting. I like the "Divorced Barbie". She comes with all of Kens stuff. Has anyone noticed, Ken don't have any boy parts?

Guns are usually not packaged with the same eye catching marketing hype. I don't get it. I suggest a picture of a scantly dressed young woman holding the firearm. Sex is great for sales.

Regarding the manuals. They are filed away. I use the Internet, if the need arises.

Lex Luthier
January 27, 2012, 09:30 PM
That stuff matters in rare collectible cases only.

Generally the lack of original box and manual is a negotiating point for cheapskates when they're buying, and a bonus feature for cheapskates when they're selling. The box and the manual do not make the firearm go bang any better. I would rather have a nice zip case thrown in.

mljdeckard
January 27, 2012, 09:44 PM
I inherited my dad'sold Ruger Mk I, which he bought used, and going through everything, I found the box. I was thinking, 'ok, that makes it a set.' However, the pistol itself is so hammered, I need to refinish it, thereby eliminating any collector value in the first place.. And I'm never selling it anyway, so why do I care if it adds value in the first place?

Weevil
January 27, 2012, 10:09 PM
Nice to have but not a deal breaker if they're gone.


Especially nowadays with the internet. The manuals are all online as well as links to tutorials, videos, and any parts available, and of course the makers site.

intercooler
January 27, 2012, 10:16 PM
I like keeping them in their case and like the stuff they come with originally (just me). My old Bersa didn't come with a case but I bought one and included it when I sold. Manuals I understand but just wonder where all these cases went to?

Weevil
January 27, 2012, 10:23 PM
Yeah I've got all the manuals and most of the cases for the guns I've bought new or had them when I got them.


Some of the cardboard boxes got thrown out but all the hard cases or fancy paper boxes are stored away.

aaronu
January 28, 2012, 03:32 AM
What about the other way around?

I have an old box and manuals for a High Standard pistol that I don't have. I've always wondered if there isn't some High Standard HD owner out there who would appreciate having them.

Zach S
January 28, 2012, 10:05 AM
I don't worry about keeping cardboard or fragile boxes. The box my Para Companion came in broke during a move... I still have most of the plastic boxes that actually hold up.

I have bought some used guns that didn't come with a box, didn't bother me a bit. If you buy from a dealer, he may throw a $10-$15 plano or MTM case in, if you ask.

If I sell or trade a gun, I make sure it is in a $10-$15 plano or MTM case, or the factory one.

lowerunit411
January 28, 2012, 10:32 AM
i keep all of the packaging and documentation on new guns i buy and prefer to buy guns that have all of that with them. i will pay a little more, i think, for guns with all of the "stuff", but if i want the gun and it isnt part of the deal, i buy it anyway.

Cluster Bomb
January 28, 2012, 10:45 AM
i try to get or keep boxes for my guns. manual are ok, i try to get them when they are cheap enough.

I am still looking for a 1968 era Colt trooper box. even though she isnt mint.

I figure it will hold its value more, and in many cases is more sell able with everything.

If i had a choice between 100 extra for a used in box than used without box. depending on the gun I would do it.

it depends on the person really. I dont have any safe queens. but I do like to keep my guns value and also keep a projected value in mind.

lets say 1000 people wanted my Ruger redhawk in 7" stainless well mine has box and manual. im selling mine next to a guy whos selling his without a box and manual for $100 to $200 less than mine. If mine is in better shape than his i woul project that somone will purchase mine. However people would be more inclined to buy his first. seeing it as cheaper. for the same gun.

it is tough to say really, but i project that if i keep it for +/- 50 years and those boxes are rare and I have 2. maybe it will add more that a $50 price tage increase in my eyes.

khegglie
January 28, 2012, 10:53 AM
Am looking at the case that came with my latest Beretta...cardboard box with lawyer language instruction book and a lock with no key; I offered to sell the lock as is back to the lgs salesman(we both laughed).

The CZ 83 I got at the same time has a good plastic case with cleaning tools, manual and a sighting in target.

NEITHER added to the sale price. After reading this thread I will toss the Beretta box and keep the CZ box just to pass down the goodiers in the off chance I sell/trade.

CajunBass
January 28, 2012, 10:56 AM
If it's an old Smith & Wesson revolver, yea, I want the box, papers, tools, everything that came with the gun. It's not a deal breaker if they're not there, but I'm willing to pay more for them.

Of course, back in the day, almost nobody saved them. I just tossed that stuff away. Or, I'd take a gun in and trade it in and tell the dealer, "I've still got the box and all the papers." and the dealer would say "Who cares?" I've seen them take the gun out of the box, and toss the box into the trash, and put the gun on the rack.

Which is why those boxes are worth so much today.

Specs
January 28, 2012, 11:06 AM
If you want to sell on a private FTF basis, it's nice to advertise "LNIB" in your description. I have bought a few used guns with no box and then picked up correct for model (not year) from Ebay or elsewhere. My collection is mostly Ruger and each has it's own Ruger plastic case except for the newer models which come in cardboard box with gun rug.

PapaG
January 28, 2012, 11:09 AM
When doing appraisals, 100% to us means new, in box which includes the paperwork. It can be unfired but if it don't have the supporting stuff, it isn't NIB. LNIB would rate 98%.

intercooler
January 28, 2012, 12:35 PM
My Witness models have amazing cases. For someone to not offer or have those with the firearm would have been a great loss IMO.

EddieNFL
January 28, 2012, 12:45 PM
We seem to fall into one of two categories - shooters or collectors.

maskedman504
January 28, 2012, 12:49 PM
We seem to fall into one of two categories - shooters or collectors.

I shoot all my guns often and keep every one of them cased. I now keep the nice plastic cases they come in- the manual, tools, etc fits nicely in there and protects the gun. I went to the Dick store ( i hate that place) and bought soft cases for all the rifles and pistols that had their original packing discarded. It takes up some more space maybe, but I have a full size Liberty. I just like that they are protected and I can pack each one with a silica gel packet.

I just bought two Springer 1911s- a EMP and a SS Trophy Match. Manual, tools, holster and xtra mag pouch I will never use. Hard plastic with fitted foam- you paid for it, why would you throw that away?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7854765&postcount=1


YMMV.

xfyrfiter
January 28, 2012, 12:51 PM
Had a friend (now dead, rip) that had every revolver that Ruger made before 1985, all were new unfired and had nylon tywraps on all hammers. He also had all of the boxes and manuals. He told me that the value of this collection was almost double of LNIB because the actions were unopened, and cylinders never rotated, and all had original packing.

EddieNFL
January 28, 2012, 02:31 PM
Had a friend (now dead, rip) that had every revolver that Ruger made before 1985, all were new unfired and had nylon tywraps on all hammers. He also had all of the boxes and manuals. He told me that the value of this collection was almost double of LNIB because the actions were unopened, and cylinders never rotated, and all had original packing.
That's like marrying a virgin and never consummating the marriage.

Stevie-Ray
January 28, 2012, 04:38 PM
I have the original boxes for about half my guns, same with manuals. The world kept turning after I seemingly lost the others.

PapaG
January 28, 2012, 05:53 PM
I don't have a gun that I haven't fired except for one damascus ML double with badly eroded breech plugs.
I also have every box and manual for every new gun I've bought. One of which, my 870 TB, I've fired close to 400,000 times since I got it in '72.
I guess I shoot my guns and collect the boxes.

Sulaco
January 29, 2012, 08:51 AM
Telekenesis wrote:

"I like when the original case and manual/paperwork/accessories are included in the sale, but I wouldn't pay more for them to be included. The gun is the important part, and even given 2 guns, one with manual/case and one without, I'll still pick the gun in better shape over anything else. Most of my pistols tend to live in holsters anyway, so I don't have much use for the original case other than to say I have it."


I agree with this.

grendelbane
January 29, 2012, 09:37 AM
I very carefully store the manual inside the box, which I then store inside a closet.

Then, some one always throws them out for me, usually a week before I decide to sell it. Usually, after I have told some one that I have the box and manual.

So, its not like I have the option of keeping the box and manual. I would if I could, but I know that it is going to be thrown out. Nothing will stop this process, other than locking them away in a safe.

JohnBT
January 29, 2012, 09:45 AM
And what was FN thinking when they put a huge gun like the FNP-45 in a small suitcase? Talk about taking up shelf space and collecting dust. It's nearly as bad as Rock River's big blue plastic rifle case.

Somebody's pic of the FN case:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtn6Y5TGJvzfR_j5pM2h9xrx_317caJycoMTsOrHorhTRq9NKo_v_XXedu

John

we are not amused
January 29, 2012, 03:44 PM
I have just realized that every gun I own, was bought used except one, a Raven .25 automatic, which I do still have the original box and manual for. Anybody want to offer me a premium price for it?:p

Every one of the rest of my guns came without the original box or manuals.

Some were inherited from my Dad or Uncles, some were bought from dealers, some from individuals, some were bought at estate auctions. My sole consideration was for value of gun. My purchase of a Kel-tec 380 was based upon the fact that the used gun I bought was almost a hundred dollars less than the brand new Ruger LCP I had gone to the gun dealer to buy. With the money saved, I purchased two extra magazines, and a holster.:D

If I buy another brand new weapon, or a used one with box and manual,I would try to keep them, but they would not be a top priority with me.

Dr.Rob
January 30, 2012, 03:09 PM
MANY MANY manufacturers will supply a manual for FREE, it's part of the 'safety' and consumer protection era of thinking.

There's a brisk market on e-bay and gunbroker on vintage hangtags and manuals, but if you have something made in the last 20 or so years chances are the mfg has a manual for it.

Archaic
January 30, 2012, 06:39 PM
So many of my guns are either bought used from an individual, inherited, swapped, etc. that I've never really worried much about the case. Mostly I'm more interested in whether it reliably goes bang when I pull the trigger. I've been able to find paperwork online for even the old oddballs (the Savage 20V), so I'm not too concerned with the manuels either.

mo841
January 30, 2012, 07:20 PM
When I buy a used gun I do not expect a box or manual to come with it. I also would not pay extra for the box and manual. When I buy a gun new, the box and manual usually gets tossed because its all the same " don't point at ur head and pull the trigger" type information. The only gun I have the manual for is my 500 because it comes with a nice case and I just stuck it behind the padding. I do think it is important to keep something like a cleaning kit that came with the gun because that is something usefull and cool to have.

Trebor
January 30, 2012, 10:49 PM
It depends on the gun. The more collectible the gun, the more valuable it is to have the original box, manual, warranty documents, tools, etc.

For some S&W collectors the tools and stuff can be harder to find than the guns, so a gun with a complete set of accessories (as shipped) is more valuable than a lose gun.

For guns that aren't collectible, but are "shooters," it really doesn't matter much to most people.

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