Has this Obama/Pelosi ammo market turned you from a shooter to an ammo hoarder?

Hi

I've been looking at ammo for my guns lately, and the only sane conclusion is I have to get rid of a bunch of stuff and setup a Dillon 550.

Examples:
Weatherby 375 H&H: bought 250 rounds 25 dollars a box, 20 rounds a box.
Cheapest I can find right now is about 45 dollars a box, for cheapest Federal 375.

30-06 is around 20 a box, for 20, shipped and taxed.
.475 and .480 Ammo are up to about 30 a box, used to be 20 for 20 for Hornady factory XTP's.

Seems like EVERYTHING I have stashed has gone up double in price, or way more.

22lr seems like the only thing to shoot anymore...

I'm sure someone will pop up and say "Hey, you should reload"... Well, if you're like me and can't afford the initial expense of getting into reloading, along with the learning curve and the time required (I have two small kids, so no time for reloading even if I could afford $400+ worth of equipment to get started and even if I did get the gear to load my own, the kids have me so distracted most of the time that I'd end up blowing my hand off), you might look into scheduling ammo purchases... buy a set amount of a set caliber once a week, and instead of shooting 3 times a week, cut back to once a month. You don't get to shoot as much, but you enjoy the time that much more.

I don't have the room to reload nor store the equipment. I store a good amount of factory ammo so I can shoot as I please and then when done shooting, I order again to replenish what I've used.

Has this Obama/Pelosi ammo market turned you from a shooter to an ammo hoarder?



NO..........I have always been an ammo hoarder. Unfortunately, too many folks wearin' the tin foil hats have driven the price of ammo and reloading supplies thru the roof.

YES,

Gun buyer, ammo hoarder, lead hoarder, bullet caster, etc.

It has made me into a re-loader. Reloading cuts the cost in half (so, where is was before Obama...) For a while in '09 I was only shooting .22LR - if I didn't reload I would go back to shooting more rimfire. Even that has gone up from $13/500 rds to $20/500 rds locally.

I always keep a par level of 3000 rounds. I then shoot down to that level. So, yes... the current admin and their games around ammo-control versus gun-control have driven me to this. And zombies, of course.

KbBailey; YES,

Gun buyer, ammo hoarder, lead hoarder, bullet caster, etc.

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better my self.

I've always bought ammo and reloading components in as large amounts as I could afford, when the price was right.
Buy in bulk when the price is low and shoot inexpensively. I'm still shooting $4.00 a box factory center-fire ammo and $2.50 a box reloads.

The year before the election when it looked like people were actually going to vote for obama, a friend and I were at a gun show stocking up, as the prices were starting to climb.
We were looking at the bullets trying to decide if we should buy a lot of bullets or a whole lot of bullets.
My friend said,
"If you don't like the prices now, you are going to really hate the prices next year".
We bought the dealer out.

This is just some of the overflow.:D
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/45incans.jpg

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/45and38reloads.jpg

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/bulletcabinet.jpg


As far as the cost of the reloading equipment? This Lee hand tool costs about $35. About the cost of 5 boxes of Wal Mart WWB 9mm you can get the basic equipment to start loading your own 9mm. In ammo reloading money equals speed. The more you spend on equipment the faster you can load. For example it takes about 30 minutes to load a box of pistol ammo with this Lee hand tool. It takes about 8 minutes to load the same box of ammo on a good progressive press like a Dillon.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Leeloader.jpg

Use some of the time you waste watching the liberal news TV talking heads and you can load the ammo you use on the weekend for half the price of factory ammo.

I won a small hotel-like safe at a business convention prize drawing, so I decided to use it to store my ammo (I used to just stack it on a shelf in my work room). I now find that my comfortable ammo level is whatever it takes to fill this little safe. I almost wish I had won a smaller safe.

What is the Obama/Pelosi ammo market?

But---but---Vito : suppose the Zombies decide to attack - backed up by US troops in blue helmets ? What will you do when the (Shudder !) black helicopters show up ??

Perceived governmental scare, paranoia, or stark reality, it really doesn't matter. Any avid shooter, fan of the second aomendment, or owner of any firearm ought to have access to, or their own supply of whatever ammo they think they might need in the event of even hard economic times. Think of it as just a goal to be constantly acted upon. If one isn't able to devote a lot o funds to the task, start off small and accumulate, reload, or maybe just start a PLAN for your ammo supply. The ultimate goal is to either have what you need or want, or always have access to it. I reload, and am slowly working to have ammo on hand for whatever guns I have. I have witnessed shortages, runs on Wal-Mart, etc, and at the very least want to have primers and powder to continue my shooting enjoyment and defense needs. I can cast bullets for many guns, and if a small supply of jacketed bullets or ammo is on hand for the others, I can cut back on shooting, and make my "supply" last into decades, if needed. But, even for a gun you may never HAVE to shoot, 50-100 rounds might be more than plenty. Anyone should be able to store that much per gun.

if you have to buy new brass every time is loading yourself still cost effective. The ranges I go to do not let you keep the brass and in the miami area you don't have many choices

Once you have more stored than you can move, you probably have excess.

The ammo market certainly has made me pick up .22lr whenever and where ever I see it for a reasonable price. The cheapest I have seen it locally since 2008 is $15.90 for 525 rounds of Federal. I was moving a lot before Obama took office. I hadn't bought ammo for 15 years before that and I spent about $5 on a brick of .22 back then. When I went to get some .22 in 2009, the prices were ridiculous and that was when I could find ammo.

9mm is the only caliber I can afford to buy in factory loads. But I reload that and several other calibers and shoot for 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of factory loads.

I don't generally believe end-of-the-world scenarios are going to play out any time soon. But assuming they do, .22lr would make a nice item for trade. The rounds are easy to carry, lots of guns shoot .22, and you can kill a lot of food with it.

And if the world keeps on spinning with no problems, well then I'll have a lot of fun shooting .22.

What claim does any range have to your fired brass? I'd bring a curtain to suspend to retain my brass at my feet if I had to, and pick up and take my own (ammo brought to the range) stuff. If this was not good enough for the range, then they would not get my business, and I'd find an outside range or club where you DO keep your own brass.

I'm sure someone will pop up and say "Hey, you should reload"... Well, if you're like me and can't afford the initial expense of getting into reloading, along with the learning curve and the time required (I have two small kids, so no time for reloading even if I could afford $400+ worth of equipment to get started and even if I did get the gear to load my own, the kids have me so distracted most of the time that I'd end up blowing my hand off), you might look into scheduling ammo purchases... buy a set amount of a set caliber once a week, and instead of shooting 3 times a week, cut back to once a month. You don't get to shoot as much, but you enjoy the time that much more.
This ammo market turned me into a reloader.

I also have two kids and limited time, and a small budget. Someone like yourself with only a little to invest could get a Lee Turret and all the other required items for 150-200 or less, spend some time over on the reloading forum and then start cranking out 100-150 rounds per hour at half price. I did that for a year before buying a Hornady Lock and Load and can now make 300+ per hour. It is worth while.

I would never shoot at a range that wouldn't at least let me keep my own brass.

PS: Just called Trail Glades Shooting Range in Miami on S.W. 8th st, and they said you can use your own amoo, and pick it up in your shooting area, so there is at least one range in Miami that you can keep your brass.

I feel the same as Dr.B

Most of my shooting is done with .22 anyway.....except for hunting and clay bustin'.

Stocking up on .22 is a win-win, no matter what the future may hold. Oh, and no need to worry about the brass.

Ammo prices going up are not a result of hoarding. Commodity prices of lead and copper are at a all time high. They are reopening mines that were too costly to run before because prices are now making them profitable. There is nothing imaginary about that.

Buy cheap and stack deep.

No time, $, or interest in reloading at this point. Would rather get a second job, earn more money, and just buy pallets of ammo.

I learned long ago that buying ammo in bulk is nicer than running to the store for the odd box when you want it - and if there's an emergency the shelves will be bare.

I did for a while. When the panic hit, I was pretty much dry, and I couldn't get any ammo for months. Now I have some reserves and I'm reloading. And yeah, the price of metals goes up.

I'm sure someone will pop up and say "Hey, you should reload"... Well, if you're like me and can't afford the initial expense of getting into reloading, along with the learning curve and the time required (I have two small kids, so no time for reloading even if I could afford $400+ worth of equipment to get started
I started reloading with a Lee Loader -- the kind where you drove the die down over the case with a mallet. I used Lee dippers to measure powder, and you could keep the whole reloading kit, including a pound of powder in a .30 caliber ammo can.

Unfortunately, too many folks wearin' the tin foil hats have driven the price of ammo and reloading supplies thru the roof.

This.

Last election, a bunch of people panicked and drove supply down and prices up. Well, the apocalypse didn't happen and now supplies have started to come back up and prices have eased some compared to the first year of the current administration. They haven't come back down to where they were, and they won't, not even if one of the current GOP candidates wins. But blaming whoever the current president is at the time (Dem or Repub, depending on their own preferences) is SOP among certain people, so whatever. Of course, this also ties into the other threads on the psychology of marketing SHTF scenarios as well.

Meanwhile ammo technology constantly improves, so it makes sense to have a variety, from less-expensive milsurp to newer (Critical Defense, PDX1, etc.).

But hoarding? What's the definition of that, anyway? To anti-gun folks, two guns makes an "arsenal" and more than a box of ammo is "hoarding." To folks who shoot regularly, a footlocker full of ammo is a temporary supply that must be constantly replenished.

Chacun a son gout -- "To each his own."

You CAN spend $400 to get started reloading. You certainly don't HAVE to. See post #9. And the good part is, you don't have to do it all at once. A hand press this month, a set of dies next month, etc.

Since the price of ammo has more than doubled in the last 10 years, I can't afford to "hoard" even if I wanted to.

I've been a reloader for decades. Never in large quantities, more of an experimenter. Always trying to come up with the ideal load that each firearm "likes". So I'd have 100 of this bullet, 100 of that. Maybe a pound each of several different powders. A single stage press was all I needed.

Primers were pretty much standardized on CCI, but generally 1000 or less of each type. When I got down to my last 100, I'd order more.

I was content if I had 100 loaded rounds of each rifle caliber on hand and maybe 200 or 300 of each pistol caliber. Didn't want more because I might find a better load before the on-hand quantity was shot up.

Now, thanks to O&P and their anti-gun sideshow, bulk orders of bullets and brass are the order of the day. Several thousand of each type of primer is on hand and I get real nervous if the quantity of any type drops below 2000. Powder is ordered in 4lb. and 8lb. quantities.

Also the goal is to have at least a five hundred rounds of each caliber on hand (rifle and handgun) and at least a few thousand of any round that can be fired in the available semi-auto rifles, pistols and .357 revolvers. The emphasis on "best load" has been replaced by what's most cost effective (for awhile, it was what's available). To meet that goal a lot of steel cased Russky ammo has been delivered here that never would've been considered a few years ago.

Though I swore I'd never go back to progressive reloading presses, I'm leaning toward a Dillon 550. It's not about fun and games any more.

I keep a large supply of ammo on hand because I shoot various calibers and whenever I see a good deal I buy what I can afford to.
I'm not a tinfoil hat type but I am a realist-there are some people in DC and locally who would disarm citizens in a minute-there is also a chance of civil disorder,so better prepared than not.
That said,I just like shooting a lot when I go to the range.
I have found two commercial reloaders in my area and they are extremely reasonable-particularly on 45 Colt and 44 Special as well as 45 Auto Rim and 44 Magnum.
This ammo is not loaded hot at all,more like cowboy level or a little above,making for pleasant range sessions-I like shooting single action revolvers a lot so brass recovery in that case is easy and cuts the resupply price by a few bucks a box.
Sometimes I see Graf&Sons or Ammoman run a really good price on stuff like 38 Super-no shipping,no tax,and a low price-can't beat that.Graf even throws in nice premiums sometimes.
BVAC bulk ammo from Cheaper Than Dirt isn't bad either-but they charge shipping.

Since the price of ammo has more than doubled in the last 10 years, I can't afford to "hoard" even if I wanted to.
But just think what it will be in another 10 years.

This 9mm cost a little over $4 a box. Check the dates.:)
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/9mmWWB.jpg

I have been comparing the price of supplies to the cost of factory made in the 9mm and 45 online. Maybe I have not found the right source for supplies because so far the the time invested to load 1000 rounds is worth more at the federal minimum wage than the savings I can realize.
Can you guys share where you are getting supplies at the best prices so as to save reasonable money.
I have been seeing 124 gr bullets at around $95/1000, primers at $25 and powder at about $15. If you have to purchase even 300 brass casings you it's around $40 so before shipping or taxes I would be in for $175 and I can buy 1000 rounds or Ruag 124 9mm at $200 locally. I guess that over a years time I could save around $1500 but the time invested seems to cancel that out. What am I missing?

Sharpdressedman,
I go to trail Glades every Thursday night for tactical practice with a group and the range Nazi's don't let you police much of your brass. You can maybe scoop up 50 shells before you are asked to stop. I think they sell the brass to companies for reloading for retail.

What am I missing?


trickyric-

Look at tjconevera.com. 1000 115 plated 9mm with 1000 pieces of brass for 119$.
The savings is in the brass, reuse it and you will be loading a 1000 rounds for half of what you pay for that Ruag stuff.
And if you use powders like Universal the ammo will be a whole lot cleaner.

Get a basic Lee press and dies and you will pay for the initial startup costs in the fist batch.

When the herd stampedes it stampedes and the duration of the stampede is dependent on which way the political winds are blowing.

Hysteria may be too strong of a word but then it’s descriptive of what occurs with panic buying. The internet fuels the fire with rumors, innuendo, speculation and WAG (AKA= Wild Ass Guess). It is I have a friend of a friend of an individual that is in the know and THE Word is.

You betcha with the election coming up and commentary fueling the fires of fear its going to be a record year.

So, what exactly has driven the prices of ammo up? Is is hysteria/Obama/Pelosi/ or is it commodity prices of metals? Or a combination?

I poured a cup of coffee this morning, opened the newspaper, saw an ad for next week's gun show at the raceway complex and thought to myself, "I need to get a lightweight hand truck for hauling ammo home."

I don't mind carrying 2 Georgia Arms ammo cans of .45 through the parking lot, but that's my limit these days.

Luckily, I'm still shooting Wolf Match Target I bought for $15 a brick years ago. It's $46 in the J&G flyer I got the other day. Dang.

I buy in volume because it is cheaper, it has nothing to do with Obama or Pelosi.

Way back - early 60's the house rule was buy 2 shoot 1. got a stash you would not believe.

I'm with Trickyric. There is no savings unless you remove the "cost of your time" equation. If you enjoy it, you probably break even. If it's like a second job to you, you'd be better off working more or getting a second job to earn $ to buy ammo in bulk.

9MM is a concern, but, usually last on my reloading list. I'm in the really hosed categories, and, would like another one, 45 Colt.

Calibers I need to reload: 375 H&H, 30-06, .475 Linebaugh, .500 Linebaugh, regular and Maximum, .500JRH, .45 Super, .357.

Has this Obama/Pelosi ammo market turned you from a shooter to an ammo hoarder?

Once the panic buying settled down things could have returned to normal if we could have kept our debt in check.

So, what exactly has driven the prices of ammo up? Is is hysteria/Obama/Pelosi/ or is it commodity prices of metals? Or a combination?

Look at the price of Gas these days. Everything is more expensive because we keep printing money to pay for the deficit we keep spending and it is devaluing the dollar.

Weak dollar= more expensive metals, more expensive ammo, more expensive food and gas et.al.

No

I buy ammo to shoot, but I shoot a lot.

Maybe I have not found the right source for supplies because so far the the time invested to load 1000 rounds is worth more at the federal minimum wage than the savings I can realize.
Seldom is anyone paid for their personal time.
How much are you paid for wasting your time watching TV or being on THR?

Reloads cost about half the price of factory ammo. If that cost savings isn't worth your time then pay for factory ammo.

Personally, when I started shooting in 1960 I couldn't afford to buy 38 and 45 factory ammo, so I started reloading.
Now days I can afford to buy factory ammo but it seems silly to pay double for my shooting, when I can load thousands of rounds in my free time.

My Dillon is always ready to go. I can sit down for a half hour, like when I'm waiting for supper, and load several boxes. Time better spent than watching the TV news liberal talking heads.:)

Look at the price of Gas these days. Everything is more expensive because we keep printing money to pay for the deficit we keep spending and it is devaluing the dollar.

Weak dollar= more expensive metals, more expensive ammo, more expensive food and gas et.al.
Ain't it the truth,
BUT.

All we have to do is, each one of us taxpayers pay the $135,368 we owe and the cost of ammo will come down.
It would help if your children would pay the $48,858 they owe.:)

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Here.
1968: mean income: 28k
Rent: Same apartment: 250 dollars

Now: Mean income 20K
Rent: 1650, and only because it's price controlled.

Disposable income goes down as fixed costs have sky rocketed.

Hysteria? Hardly. There's nothing wrong with buying something before the price increases. And its not just ammo that's gotten more expensive. Prices are higher for most things thanks to this administration and ol nancy. :(

Prices are higher for most things thanks to this administration and ol nancy.


Care to explain how those two are responsible for prices going up?

Prosser: Who was making 28K as a MEAN income in 1968? Who was that "average" guy making that much in '68? Not too many in the US Army. My dad was in construction, feeding a family of seven, mom didn't work outside the house, and he probably never made over $15k then. I used to work with some pharmacists then, and I don't think a pharmacist was making that much then, and I would bet that a pharmacist was ABOVE mean income then. I think that figure may be off a bit.

I buy ammo to shoot. My shooting suffers from an ebb and flow of interest. But I continue to buy ammo. The result is an accumulation of factory loaded ammo that is available to shoot when I want to without thought of whether the local store has any in stock or at what price. Sometimes it looks like I am an ammo hoarder.

But I have to say honestly, that I cache a significant amount of 22LR ammo because it is my favorite round to shoot day in and day out.

I have been comparing the price of supplies to the cost of factory made in the 9mm and 45 online. Maybe I have not found the right source for supplies because so far the the time invested to load 1000 rounds is worth more at the federal minimum wage than the savings I can realize.

You can't equate your free time with any wage scale on a practical basis. If that truly is the case in terms of your belief system, just buy factory ammo and shoot less. Shooting is not an inexpensive hobby. It does not have to rule your life in terms of disposable income.

Prosser, if those numbers (#45) are about you personally, I would have to say that in 1968 you made a significant income. As mentioned earlier, my Dad never made more than about 22K per year in his entire life and he raised 7 kids. You need to consider moving somewhere cheaper to live. When I got out of college, if I made 12K, I thought I was doing pretty well for the time and being a member of the working class.

I'm getting into reloading one item at a time: the Lee Breech Lock Press Kit for Christmas, Lee manual last week, bullet puller this week, you get the idea. Makes it more affordable in bite-size chunks. I'm also shooting more .22LR and planning to buy more .22s, so I have a multi-front approach to rising ammo prices: shoot more .22 now, buy 4 centerfire factory ammo and shoot 1 or 2, and begin reloading to build up a stockpile.

Neither. I reload so no big deal. I just crank out ammo as I get time and try and keep ahead of my shooting habit. Right now I am out of 357 magnum, low on 357 sig, 40, 10mm and 9mm. I have plenty 38/44's, 38 special and 38 supers.

Thinking about that, I should be in front of the press instead the monitor.

Like always happens, someone blames the ills of the market driven world on politics.

Can anyone point to specific legislation sponsored, endorsed and signed into law by the current administration which has driven the prices of ammo so high???

For sure the market place was driven by peoples' fears or misconceptions about the intentions of the current administration, no matter how unfounded they were. But I don't recall any legislation enacted.

Can anyone point to specific legislation sponsored, endorsed and signed into law by the current administration which has driven the prices of ammo so high???

For sure the market place was driven by peoples' fears or misconceptions about the intentions of the current administration, no matter how unfounded they were. But I don't recall any legislation enacted.

The legislation passed by this administration was the federal budget. The Federal Reserve (independently run) is in charge of paying for this insane budget so they keep printing money and devaluing the dollar. Everything is bought and sold on a global economy so when the dollar is weak, our stuff costs more.

You can say I'm hoarding, but I say I've saving to have ammo to shoot when I retire. (soon! if plans stay on track)

For the last time I am not hoarding, I'm just setting up a good supply before the hoarders do. Really you sound just like my wife.

No, but right wing propaganda causing fear driven hoarding did get me to start reloading.

No, but right wing propaganda causing fear driven hoarding did get me to start reloading.

Sooooo true!

i still belong to the NRA but sometimes........ughhh......

No.

But a Gingrich or Santorum administration could.

I have been comparing the price of supplies to the cost of factory made in the 9mm and 45 online. Maybe I have not found the right source for supplies because so far the the time invested to load 1000 rounds is worth more at the federal minimum wage than the savings I can realize.
Can you guys share where you are getting supplies at the best prices so as to save reasonable money.
I have been seeing 124 gr bullets at around $95/1000, primers at $25 and powder at about $15. If you have to purchase even 300 brass casings you it's around $40 so before shipping or taxes I would be in for $175 and I can buy 1000 rounds or Ruag 124 9mm at $200 locally. I guess that over a years time I could save around $1500 but the time invested seems to cancel that out. What am I missing?
Those who choose to reload earn minimum wage at their work and have nothing better to do with their free time? One sales person at Walmart who knows nothing about shooting made an astute observation. She said they will buy less food or cheap food but will buy ammo even if it becomes more expensive then it is now. That is Krazy!

The last few posts above this show me there is rational thinking and hope for this country, especially with open minded gun owners. Our current financial issues stem from the out of control spending long before the current administration. And guess what, we can still buy black guns and ammunition.

If we just say NO to current prices by not buying and hoarding ammo the problem will go away.

In one word: YES.

Maybe... but then we may be sorry that we didn't pony up the cash today when prices double in a couple of years. Investing is an educated guessing game that's affected by chance.

People stock up on ammo because it makes them feel good.

It makes certain people feel good to know, that in the event of a major disaster, at least they will not have to worry about not having bought ammo when it was available.

But really, how many rounds of handgun ammo do you think you will get to squeeze off before the Zombies get to you by virtue of their overwhelming numerical superiority?

+1 on using a lee handloader while watching the news or your favorite waste-of-time sitcom. I did this when I "had no room and no time" and it was very effective. Initial setup for a hand press, and the various required accessories can be had for about $150 including a reloading book. Range pickup brass is free in most places.

I now have a garage and have graduated to a progressive (LnL), but I do use the hand press to pop primers before I tumble the brass.

I do try to keep a good supply of bullets, primers, and powder for each caliber that I shoot regularly. I try to buy a couple hundred bullets for rifles or premium pistol bullets that I don't "need" every time I order my pistol bullets in bulk.

RE: Post #64... And food and water and toiletries and...

Rational thought equals stable market prices equals stable commodity prices equals stable consumer prices. When was the last time you remember stable market prices? Did I hear you say, "Never."? That's what I thought you said...

The ammo shortage of a few years ago didn't have anything to do with the President or the Democrats (and I say that as somebody who votes as a liberal Republican)

We had a war going on in Iraq and another in Afghanistan. In 2005 or so the congress decided that all ammo used by the US Military should come from American companies. This was a good decision, and made to protect our production base for ammunition.

So for about 4 years Winchester and Remington and Federal were making ammo to fill military contracts FIRST and the police contracts SECOND and fulfilling demand from the public was a lower priority.

Price went up because of demand and because China is buying lots of copper because they have a huge building boom going on. (China is still buying lots of copper in Africa)

Ammo is again widely available and the prices have come down a little bit.

For those who don't reload, .22 conversion units for your various weapons are a good way to maintain basic proficiency at low cost.

Has this Obama/Pelosi ammo market turned you from a shooter to an ammo hoarder?

It turned me into a bitter, bitter man who clings to his guns, vast cache of ammunition, and religion. ;)

Can anyone point to specific legislation sponsored, endorsed and signed into law by the current administration which has driven the prices of ammo so high???


Well, shredding brass then selling the scrap to china doesn't help.

I don't hoard to be ready for zombies, commies, liberals. I keep a good supply on hand because I like to shoot, my kid LOVES to shoot, and it ain't going to get cheaper. I can afford it now, will I be able to later? No idea.

As I thought, for the most part just fear mongering and no hard legislation. Jeff22 has it right.
jmstevens, I doubt shredding brass had anything to do with legislation. Sounds more like internal DOD policy by a descendant of Robert McNamara.
I guess the point I've been making is that there hasn't been any real policy changes by this administration, or the one before either.

No, it was a change in policy very recently. They were selling it to places like Georgia Arms for reloading at a higher than scrap price. It was something Hillary pushed as I recall. The government loses money by scrapping it. It is a "behind the scenes" thing.

Has this Obama/Pelosi ammo market turned you from a shooter to an ammo hoarder?

Yes.

The legislation passed by this administration was the federal budget. The Federal Reserve (independently run) is in charge of paying for this insane budget so they keep printing money and devaluing the dollar. Everything is bought and sold on a global economy so when the dollar is weak, our stuff costs more.

Well the exchange rate of dollars per euro peaked in July 2008, at $1.58 per euro. Right now it's at $1.32 per euro.

Now, for sure, the Chinese Yuan is a lot stronger versus the dollar than it was in June 2005 (it's 6.35 per dollar versus 8.27 in June 2005), but while that does mean all the junk we buy from China is more expensive, it also means that American manufacturing is more competitive, and that it's easier for them to buy stuff from us.

If you wanna talk about why FOOD costs more, that's got everything to do with Goldman Sachs (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/04/27/how_goldman_sachs_created_the_food_crisis) bundling food commodities into a single bond that people buy on the assumption that the price of food will go up...which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. As with the housing crisis, it was Wall Street that screwed us over, not the federal government.

As for government once-fired brass getting turned into scrap, the government plan to do that was quickly killed when it popped up in early 2009. The scrapping is going on now, but that's because ATK/Alliant Tech Systems, the company that runs Lake City Arsenal, goes and buys the once-fired brass directly from military bases and then destroys it on site, and pays the military bases then and there. The officers in charge of the bases are the ones who sold you out, not Obama and Pelosi; you were sold out to Alliant Tech Systems, not anti-gun activists.

Here's the ATK/Alliant flyer for the program that destroys all the once-fired brass that would otherwise be sold to the public: http://www.progunleaders.org/ammo/SCSBrassRecycle%28small%29.pdf

Page 11 of the ATK/Alliant .pdf here (http://www.progunleaders.org/ammo/ATKOverviewBrassProjects-1.pdf) says the same thing. "Keeps military-grade brass from being reloaded by unauthorized users."

When Obama was elected, with a democratic congress, it created one of the greatest runs on guns, EVER. The combination did more for the gun industry then WW 2. The major companies, Ruger, etc. have been running 24/7 since that time, and making TONS of money. They keep raising prices, people keep buying guns. Oddly, there hasn't been a real attack on the law. In fact, Obama has been waiting for his legacy: hoping to stack the Supreme Court. Currently the court has ruled for the Second Amendment, 5-4, in a couple cases. These are historic cases, but, those of us that follow that, know it could change with one conservative judge having a heart attack..

Also, Obama has not taken on the gun issue, since the current political climate suggests that would keep him from being relected. Remember, he started with a Democratic House, lost that, and taking on guns might well be political suicide in his attempt for a 2nd term.

IF he manages to make it to second term, he has nothing to loose trying to keep guns out of the common people's hands. He doesn't really care about american jobs, etc. Rumor is his plan is to try and take out the Second Amendment, if he makes it to second term.

All that said, his actions, and the democrats, have fueled a gun buying frenzy. If you buy guns, you have to buy ammunition, and, as others have pointed out, it also seems Congress is attacking guns by selling vital supplies of raw products to producers like China. That's what we, China's colony do.
Supply raw product for them to produce a finished good.

Prosser, what raw supplies does Congress sell to China? What raw supplies do they even have authority over?

"Well, shredding brass then selling the scrap to china doesn't help."
Jim Stevens

I'm really curious how you can even question this. Our entire nation, and the majority of the 6th largest economy in the world, ****'s Silicon Valley industry, has been in the process of being outsourced to Mexico, India, China, etc.

Congress and the president have actually PROMOTED moving our key industries offshore, NAFTA etc.

Seems they are intent on selling out the American job market, in the name of free trade? Why?

Wait, the OP makes 20k a year and wants to reload a bunch of specialty calibers?

Son, you need to sell some guns, standardize and make do with what you got.

I couldnt make ends meet on 3x that income.

Much less afford to feed a bunch of elephant rifles.

I bought a Lee starter kit for $90. That gets you everything to reload single stage except dies, which it uses standard dies you can reuse later. Dies are less than $35.

And it isn't politics or demand for ammo driving up prices, it's the Chinese buying materials on the world market driving up copper and tin, as well as lead.

I'm really curious how you can even question this. Our entire nation, and the majority of the 6th largest economy in the world, ****'s Silicon Valley industry, has been in the process of being outsourced to Mexico, India, China, etc.

Congress and the president have actually PROMOTED moving our key industries offshore, NAFTA etc.

Seems they are intent on selling out the American job market, in the name of free trade? Why?

The shredded brass gets sold to American companies, who then sell it to China--it ain't the government selling it to China.

All those Silicon Valley jobs, they aren't getting outsourced by Congress--they're getting outsourced by the companies that pay for the jobs. When does Congress ever tell Microsoft or Apple or Citrix or whoever, "send this job overseas!!!" Congress doesn't control that; the business doing the hiring and firing do.

The companies (not Congress, not Obama) sell out the American job-market ("outsourcing," they'd say) because it boosts their profit margins. It's not some government conspiracy with a sinister ulterior motive; it's a corporate strategy with an explicitly-stated goal of making mo' money, regardless of whether or not it's good for America.

And NAFTA? That was negotiated by George H.W. Bush, who got unseated before formal signing. It was passed in the House by 132 Republicans and 102 Democrats; in the Senate, it was 34 Republicans and 27 Democrats. It's not just Democrats like Obama and Pelosi who sell out the American manufacturing base--it's BOTH parties. Don't think for a second that Gingrich or Romney are the least bit opposed to NAFTA; heck, Newt even voted for it!

Scrap brass is a supply and demand kind of thing. Brass is high and has been high for a good while now at scrap yards.

It does not suprise me that military brass is being run through a pug mill for scrap. The part that bothers me is what Beagle-Zebub said which is the "unauthorized users". Why would American users be unauthorized in general?

We had a war going on in Iraq and another in Afghanistan. In 2005 or so the congress decided that all ammo used by the US Military should come from American companies. This was a good decision, and made to protect our production base for ammunition.

So for about 4 years Winchester and Remington and Federal were making ammo to fill military contracts FIRST and the police contracts SECOND and fulfilling demand from the public was a lower priority.

I believe that is correct in a general sense. Whether or not we like it, government decisions (usually internal) influences the pricing inside the US on products like loaded ammunition. The factories can only produce so much and production has to be prioritized. This happened during WWII as well. As I understand it, it was hard to buy loaded centerfire ammuntion during the WWII years.

Beagle: Since when did facts ever get in the way of a conspiracy theory? :D

The prices of food, shelter, clothing, fuel, insurance, health care -- everything! -- are up.

I buy some ammo, but I buy mostly components to make my own, and one reason is because these things are very durable.

Food, even the freez-dried stuff, is far more perishable. So is fuel. Insurance is only good if the thing it is designed to provide is actually available when the need arises.

Ammo will always have value.

The companies (not Congress, not Obama) sell out the American job-market ("outsourcing," they'd say) because it boosts their profit margins. It's not some government conspiracy with a sinister ulterior motive; it's a corporate strategy with an explicitly-stated goal of making mo' money, regardless of whether or not it's good for America.

Companies do in fact outsource jobs do enhance their bottom lines. They lay people off, freeze or cut wages, use cheaper materials, etc. if those practices are expected to boost profits. That's their right and their duty to shareholders.

They can spend less to make the product overseas and bring it back than they can to make it in the US because of corporate tax rates, overblown US wage expectations, onerous regulations...the list goes on. Government, unions, and consumers in general all have played and continue to play a role.

Businesses are in business to make money for their owners. They are not in business to provide jobs or to make customers happy unless those things also help them make money.

Companies that forget that are doomed to go out of business because of competition from companies that remember it.

I don't hoard ammo Per say, but for the first time in 40 + years I’m aware of how much ammo I have on hand. I also try and stock up if I see a decent deal. I also restock any ammo shot, ASAP.

I’m not too worried about being able to find ammo, but I like most of us have noticed a definite price increase.

Yeah, I got a nice supply going, but I wouldn't say Obama is the biggest threat. He hasn't signed any anti-gun legislation. Newt and Romney have. I'd be more worried about them.

Our government writes laws that make it more profitable for companies to take stuff off shore. It's called TAXES, regulation, fees, etc.

Soon we'll be in the Soviet boat:
We've outsourced everything in the name of profit, but, the people who are supposed to be able to buy our products are out of work, so they can't buy the product.

J.C. Penny and Sears both just filed for bankruptcy. Tell you something?

I don't know how many of you were around 30-40 years ago but much of the current pricing is supply and demand. Massive hoarding by many creates a short supply, driving up costs. Remember the car anti-freeze shortage? It went from $5.00 a gallon to $20.00 a gallon in a months time. I still have some of the gallons of anti-freeze my dad bought, contributing to the price increase. Same thing happened to toilet paper once. Now THAT was scary. To a lesser extent, the gas shortage of the late '70s was exacerbated by hoarding. People were filling up 5 gallon jugs in the trunk of their cars.

This ammo pricing thing is to a certain extend the same scenario.

Thank you obama.

I got to looking around the place today and found about 1,500 45 ACP lead bullet reloads, over 2,000 FMJ 115 grain 9mm bullets, several thousand 38 SWC and 45 ACP lead bullets and about 1,500 cleaned .380 brass, I didn't know I had. Then there was the 400 rounds of .223 Wolf and 1,400 rounds of factory .380 I ran across last year.
Just a little of the stuff I bought when it looked like obama might somehow get elected.


Time to add to the hoard since it looks like obama will get elected again.

Maybe it's the heartless capitalist in me, but if I'd stocked up on ammo when it was 1/4 the price, I'd be selling it now and not throwing it down range! Heck, the smart play would have been to sell one's ammo about three years ago and buy a ton of stock when the market was tanked!

I convinced demand is high as a delayed result of the Great '08 Run on Guns that got a huge number of non-shooters into the game. My local range has never been busier. General currency devaluation and a far greater demand for lead and copper drove component prices up. Like it or not, there is always more money to be made turning lead and copper into electronic gadgets than into casings.

Whatever, I like my gas guzzler, and I like to shoot. I'll find a way.
TCB

Maybe it's the heartless capitalist in me, but if I'd stocked up on ammo when it was 1/4 the price, I'd be selling it now and not throwing it down range! Heck, the smart play would have been to sell one's ammo about three years ago and buy a ton of stock when the market was tanked!

I told my friends at the time, we could make a fortune on our stock of .380 ammo alone.
(Just in the last few days I loaded another thousand plus rounds of that $3.00 .380 ammo):)

Obama will get reelected. And yes, this is a good time to buy ammo. Next year prices will be exploding, again. Blame whatever forces you wish. But that's what will happen. I've got a government job so I don't really care anymore.

I think the big push would be in the second term when he has nothing to lose. Whether he tries anything or not, stocking up on ammo before next year would seem wise.

How much does a stationary press cost anyways at its cheapest

the prices of ammo have made me hoard because I know what the cost is to replace it

I'm thinking of getting the RCBS starter kit. Anyone have experience with it ...bench mount single stage press included ....everything but dies and bullet material ...any thoughts ?

If you think prices are high now...


A self-guiding bullet that can steer itself towards its target is being developed for use by the US military. The bullet uses tiny fins to correct the course of its flight allowing it to hit laser-illuminated targets. It is designed to be capable of hitting objects at distances of about 2km (1.24 miles). Work on a prototype suggests that accuracy is best at longer ranges.
. . .
"We can make corrections 30 times per second..."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16810107

Lookout boys!!! And girls if you are on this site. If we as conservatives loose this election. Ammo will vanish off the shelves. Reloading componants will vanish also. And what is left, and what does make it back onto the shelves will be priced like an oz. of gold. Obama is waiting to strike at our gun rights. Be very aware and get your supply now.
Anyone who thinks the ammo run in late 08 thru 09 was because of anything less then the DEMOCRATS taking the WH, and having congrees in the bag is foolishy mistaken. It was for that reason alone that ammo and reloading supplies vanished. We have a anti american as a President, and a communist filled congress that follows his lead. So a vote for freedom is a vote for the RIGHT. Otherwise it is a vote for a COMMUNIST REGIME!

We have a anti american as a President, and a communist filled congress that follows his lead. So a vote for freedom is a vote for the RIGHT. Otherwise it is a vote for a COMMUNIST REGIME

What a joke!...I have no idea what to say bout that. :confused:

I have over 1,000 rounds .223, 600-700 rounds .204, 200-300 rounds .243 and 2,000 or so of .22 rimfire and about the same .17HMR. Also have about 500 rounds each of 12 and 20 ga. When I realized how much I have, I thought that seemed like a lot, but I have lots of friends who have a lot more than that. I reload all my rifle, but do not reload shotgun shells. At gun shows, I have found some really good deals so I buy a bunch when I find such bargains. My general rule of thumb is to keep around a 1,000 rounds of any rifle ammo that I shoot lots of prairie dogs with----.223, .204, and .17 HMR. I have gone with 500 rounds of .223 and ran out!!

time to lock this thread before it gets any uglier.

J.C. Penny and Sears both just filed for bankruptcy. Tell you something?

Do you have a reference. If this was true, I can't imagine missing it on the news. I know that both are struggling and Sears has been struggling a long time now.

Sorry this isn't related to the ammo hoarder topic. But I have said that both Sears and JC Penny should have stayed in the Sporting Goods business.

I don't think I have turned into a hoarder, but the past shortage and increase in price per box did get me into reloading. My only regret is that I didn't start reloading, or saving my brass, earlier on. I have found it to be a fun hobby in itself.

That being said though, I do like to keep a more than ample supply of reloading components on hand.

Check the Huffington Post, where my gf gets most of her news.

She went to the closing sales for a J.C. Penny's, and Sears this week.
Sears is supposed to close 100-120 stores, as of 1/26.

I find these general indicators important. I agree that Sears should have stayed with the firearms/sporting industry. J.C. Penny's should be selling ammunition...

The store closings doesn't exactly inspire that our economy is going gangbusters...

My opinion is that anyone pinning everything on Obama is going to be sorely disappointed after the next election. Romney will probably win, and just watch, there's no way everything's going to magically fix itself. The President is just a figurehead at the head of the ship.

Where the president hurts the industry is expanding the scope of federal agencies, and allowing those agencies to create law. The ATF/BATF is a great example of an agency that shouldn't exist, and has very restrictive laws that should not exist.

Couple that with unconstitutional state laws, like we seem to have every other week in ****, and you end up with freedoms disappearing.

For instance my friend is dying and his efforts to will his machine guns is a nightmare thanks to the above.

Likewise when you allow the EPA latitude and direction in areas with the underlying intent to really be attacking the hunting industry, you loose freedom.

If you combine such situations, you can see that shooting sports can be driven out of the economic range of the average american.

It sure looks like the intention of our government is just that. Between the ATF harassing gun store owners, and closing them, we are loosing gunstores,
supplies, and everything else. The only mixed blessing is the gunmakers are unable to keep up with the demand for guns, resulting in higher gun prices, which achieves the apparent goal of getting guns out of the hands of the masses.