[Black92LX]

Last night I was at a college party and was talking with a nice young lady about me being a criminal justice major, what i want to do when i graduate, etc. That eventually led to me talking about my passion for guns. A few minutes later she starts putting her hands in my waistband and up my pant legs:what: I looked at her kind of funny and she said "ohh sorry just checking to see if you were carrying."

This got me thinking. My University is in a not so good part of town and muggings with multiple perps and firearms happen quite often. (considering i go to a Jesuit University = rich white kids in the middle of a predominatly lower class black neighborhood. Stereotyping yes i know considering i am not one of the rich kids) Being one who usually doesn't drink i end up walking lots of girls home:D. So this made me consider carrying to parties once CCW goes thru here in Ohio. Granted i wouldn't carry if the party was in a campus owned building. Or if i did decide to drink i wouuld definatly not carry. But only carry strictly by the books.

The only problem i saw is that a college party is a place where alcohol is served. But the Ohio CCW law states specifically no carry only establishments with a Class D Liquor Liscence. And considering the parties are thrown by the run of the mill college students no class D liscence.

So does anyone forsee any problems with this idea?

Ohh and by the way the nice young lady will be going to the range with me when the weather warms up:neener:

[George Hill]

I'm in Utah... they don't have college parties here.
:(

[Hkmp5sd]

If it is legal to carry, do so. If it were illegal to carry at all places that served alcohol, I wouldn't be able to carry in my own house. They are talking about businesses, not parties.

[Car Knocker]

I trust you checked to see if SHE was carrying?

[Samurai Penguin]

First off, OH CCW hasn't passed yet, and you have no way of knowing what kind of restrictions they'll tack on it. If there's one that says anything about "school property," you may want to study very closely the definition of "school," "school zone," "school property," and so on. That's an easy way to get tripped up.

Secondly, will they stick with the No-Bar-Carry provision or will they stick on a more stringent restriction? What will be the "Carry Definition" of legal intoxication?

There's a lot to try to figure out here. When the law is finally passed, I'd go over it with a fine-tooth comb before I'd carry anywhere near a campus.

One final thought--having to draw down on or shoot someone is usually treated very differently in the court system when the perp is an Upstanding College Boy as opposed to your typical Gangsta. Basically, if you have to injure(or worse) some date-raping frat boy, not only will you probably see prison, but his parents may well sue you into the poorhouse for the next ten lifetimes. Not that this is guaranteed to happen, but we all know the Golden Rule: Those with the Gold, make the Rules.

Good luck, and of course, IANAL. :)

[Baba Louie]

I never did back in my collegiate days cause just about every party I went to had amounts of cereal malt beverage being comsumed in mass quantities as well as people smoking their own hand rolled cigarettes (the 70's folks) and likely as not the local small town police or county sheriff deputies showed up to walk around and visit now and again.
Side's that, ya might find a female companion who would rather make love than war (remember this was in the middle of Kansas in the 70's) and carrying something like that might not be conducive to a successful parlay ;)
But there was also very little in the way of negativity or people being targets of crime, unless it was assault with a friendly weapon.
Oh, some of the aggies liked to get liquored up and fist-fight, but they'd usually take on the 19 year old guys from Ft Riley, who were usually looking for coeds who liked to consume massive quantities of cereal malt beverage. And it was mostly 3.2 beer anyway (Eeeewwww)
Ah the good old days.

[Aikibiker]

Considering some of the bad things I have seen happen at parties I would and do carry. I can't describe how fun it is to have to take a pair of nunchucks away from a drunk who is hell bent on defending his ladie's honor on a guy that hadn't said more then hello to the lady in question. All part of the entertainment.

I also do not drink, ever.

If it is legal in your state go for it. When Ohio's law finally get's passed go over it with a fine toothed comb to make sure you will be legal.

Also take what Samurai Penguin said to heart about perceptions on lethal force. It would probably be a good idea to look into hand to hand training. There should be a few martial arts clubs on the campus of your university where you can get training for a decent price.

[ny32182]

Carrying at a college party is asking for trouble, IMO...

I don't know about the parties there, but at the open parties here, there is lots of drinking and sometimes fighting going on. The best thing to do is accept that environment, and either take your chances with your fists and your friends, or don't go.

Shooting college partyers is going to land you in jail for a very long time.

[seeker_two]

While I didn't carry a gun then (pre-CCW here), I did carry a knife or two to the occasional party. And I went to a college in the same type of area (think lots of lawyers, many Baptists, & a few homicidal basketball players :uhoh: ). Never thought twice about it, and never had to draw down on anyone (but for one time I had to stare down three "inner-city youths" to protect my date--good thing God protects the bold & the stupid. :what: )

A few minutes later she starts putting her hands in my waistband and up my pant legs I looked at her kind of funny and she said "ohh sorry just checking to see if you were carrying."

THAT usually didn't happen until AFTER the party...and it was a mutual "frisk"... :evil:

[Zundfolge]

Carrying at a college party is asking for trouble, IMO...
As long as you're carrying legaly and you're not drinking or using drugs, what trouble are you "asking for"?

If its not safe to carry at a college party, its not safe to be there in the first place.

[Sportcat]

Not only risky, but here in South Carolina, carrying on school/ college/ university property is a no-no!

[zahc]

If its not safe to carry at a college party, its not safe to be there in the first place.

Exactly.

Shooting college partyers is going to land you in jail for a very long time.

As well it should. Unless it was justified, and if it was, would you prefer the shootee be unarmed? Is it better to be dead? That's a pretty illogical statement right there. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around it.

[Black92LX]

Clearly some of you have not read my post very clearly.

One final thought--having to draw down on or shoot someone is usually treated very differently in the court system when the perp is an Upstanding College Boy as opposed to your typical Gangsta.

The problem here is not fights at the parties. i have yet too see one! In three years. the problem is the neighborhood that i walk the ladies home in and most of the perps are that gangsta sort. And have been armed in the past!

Even if there was a problem at the party it would not be worth drawing for. I am talking about walking ladies and drunk friends home in the rough neighborhood.

Most of the parties here are off campus. So i am not too worried about the school zone thing. And i believe it is written as buildings for universities.

Also Ohio CCW has been passed and the law is written it is just in it's 90 period before it goes into law. i have read it over and over!

[Ryder]

its not safe to be there in the first place.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter. Five years of college here and I never went to an open party. I only partied in privacy with friends. Strangers are strange for a reason!

[BowStreetRunner]

i think you are asking a good question..........
if i was going to drink i wouldn't carry
and if i did carry i wouldnt let anyone know, not anyone, even if a girl frisked me (well, maybe later........:rolleyes: )
but i digress..........
i think its all up to you.........im sure the class you have taken or will take in OH will pinpoint the hazards of a self-defense or third party defense shooting (legally, civil and criminal)
BSR

[Black92LX]

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter. Five years of college here and I never went to an open party. I only partied in privacy with friends. Strangers are strange for a reason!

Same here. Once again the party is not the problem.
IT IS THE WALK HOME!

[Greg L]

Hey J,

There is a building over on Winding Way (or at least there was 15 years ago :uhoh: :D ) that has a bunch of select fire M16s in the basement. Swing by there & "borrow" one for your trip home. Either that or a Bradley will probably, probably mind you, get the young fluff home safely. Not that I would have any knowledge of any of this mind you :evil: .

PM me when you get a chance & we can try again.

Greg

[Glock_PhD]

As long as your being smart legaly and consumption wise carry. Just because you are being a college student and having a good time doesn't imply in any way you should give up your right to protect yourself. Carry!

[Standing Wolf]

I'm several decades too old to hang out at college parties. That said™, if I'm beyond the front door, I'm carrying: my life is worth defending wherever I am.

[El Tejon]

Carried during university, never had a problem. Was spotted only once at a grocery store sophomore year by my sifu (cheap IWB and belt under my blue jean "hood" jacket, learned lesson). Even when we had parties at members of my martial arts clubs or the rifle & pistol team, no problems.

Of course, it was Indiana, so most everyone at the party was responsible and armed (and used to drinking heavily:D).

Hey, Black, she touched you. Take it for an old bull, that's a good sign, young man. Usually it's just the arm.:D Did she laugh at your jokes and look at you as you talked?

[Black92LX]

Hey, Black, she touched you. Take it for an old bull, that's a good sign, young man. Usually it's just the arm. Did she laugh at your jokes and look at you as you talked?

Yeah she sure did. and after awhile was all about holding my hand. (quite a few folks mentioned some things today) though that situation was really hard for me considering it has been less than a week since my girlfriend of 4 years and i decided to go our seprate ways.

and greg you've got a PM

[Samurai Penguin]

The problem here is not fights at the parties. i have yet too see one! In three years. the problem is the neighborhood that i walk the ladies home in and most of the perps are that gangsta sort. And have been armed in the past!


'Kay, granted. You did say "when the CCW passes," though, so I was under the impression it hadn't gone through the final tweaking yet. My bad on that score.

Thing is, the walk home might be the most dangerous part. Good on ya for realizing that and being concerned. The point I was trying to make, however, is that sometimes life doesn't turn out quite how you might expect. What if you find yourself in a situation where it isn't the gangstas confronting you, but a bunch of drunken jocks?

All too often, there's a certain population of college students--particularly athletes, though not exclusively--who've grown up shielded by their parents' money and been brought up thinking that the sun shines out their nether orifice, and that anything they do is going to bring them no or negligible consequences. They can be even more dangerous, since a gangsta usually knows what a gun can do, while Mr. Young-Spoiled-&-Stupid just can't believe you'd actually hurt him. (Let's just say I've seen that mentality at work and leave it at that...I ain't admittin' to nothing! ;) )

It's fine to recognize an obvious threat, and be prepared to meet that threat. But focusing on that one set of circumstances to the exclusion of all else can't be good. If you've ascertained that you can carry where you need to without going to the pokey, then cool, strap it on. I'm just hoping you think about different possible scenarios and the fact that justice ain't necessarily blind when it comes to certain classes of people.

Just My Opinion, No Warranty Expressed Or Implied, Effects In Other Universes Unknown, Do Not Taunt Happy Fun Ball, Void Where Prohibited, Not Available In Certain Areas, I Am Not A Lawyer, All Resemblance To Any Actual Opinions--Right Or Wrong--Is Purely Coincidental, I Had Nothing To Do With It.

:D

[SapperLeader]

Im a college student, and my personal policy is that as long as your not drinking, doing drugs, or violating a state law, go ahead and carry. Since I dont drink or do drugs, and its ok with my state law ecept at uva, I carry. Im usually not too worried about the actual event, but its usually a 15 minute walk to my truck in the dark, and then 45 minutes home driving. Thats a long ways where something bad could happen, and ive avoided two potential muggings at my school already. As for the girl feeling you up for a gun, good luck with that, and i hope the range date develops into a date of a different sort :).

[Black92LX]

What if you find yourself in a situation where it isn't the gangstas confronting you, but a bunch of drunken jocks?

That's the nice thing we have none. We don't have a footbal team, and i work the basketball team (biggest sport here). by the way we just sent The University of Cincinnati and Coach Thuggins home with their tales between their legs!
So that is really not a problem. I know it sounds crazy but the students here are all actually really good drunks. It's by no means the run of the mill state university. being one that transfered in. it is very calm here in comparison

[ny32182]

As long as your carrying legally and not drinking or using drugs, what trouble are you asking for?

I explained this in my first post. When you go to a college party, you are willfully entering an unstable situation. Its your decision as to weather you want to do that or not. If you use your firearm in said situation, "justified" or not, you WILL be burned in court, and you WILL go to jail. Period. And I can't say I'd have much sympathy. Drunken parties and loaded firearms don't mix. I don't know how much more obvious that could be.

If its not safe to carry at a college party, then its not safe to be there in the first place.

Agreed. A college party is not "safe", ever. Accept this fact, and make your decision with that in mind. Twice in three and a half years, I've found myself driving a buddy to Oconee Memorial Hospital at 5am with folding knife lacerations requiring stitches. If the same thing had occured as a mugging on the street instead, would my buddies or myself have been justified in pulling a sidearm and killing the other guys on the spot? Maybe. If any of us had pulled firearms, resulting in dead frat boys in said incidents (at drunken college parties), I wouldn't be typing messages on THR right now, I'd be doing time... because there is no way to convince anybody, especially an entire jury, that you were justified in killing someone over a scrap at a sorority party.

As well it should. Unless it was justified, and if it was, would you prefer the shootee be unarmed? Is it better to be dead? Thats a pretty illogical statement right there. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around it.

I have no idea what it is that you are talking about here.

Now I realize that Black92LX is talking about the walk to and from the party. If his party is ONLY with a group of people that he entirely trusts, and he will not be drinking any signifigant amount, go for it. Otherwise, I'd highly recommend that he drives that Mustang of his to and from the party rather than walking, and leaves the gun in the car. JMO. Obviously, YMMV.

[Josey]

There may be a blood alcohol limit for Ohio CCW. It, IIRC is significantly LOWER than for DUI. You could drink a couple of beers and violate the law. If you had to even pull your weapon, you could lose your CCW and see the grey bar motel. I used to leave mine at home. Party time and firearms just don't mix. Another issue, what if the young lady accuses you of date rape? "He had a pistol and forced me!"

[Kilroy]

Going to stupid places, college alcohol parties in bad parts of town, to associate with stupid people, a wide spectrum under the influence, is an invitation to trouble. You don't know who will find out, how they'll act and what they may ultimately say or do at another place and time.

In this day and age, talking guns in such venues is foolhardy.

[yesterdaysyouth]

(considering i go to a Jesuit University = rich white kids in the middle of a predominatly lower class black neighborhood. Stereotyping yes i know considering i am not one of the rich kids)

i'll assume you're talking about XU and norwood... great place isn't it???


:D

from what i read friday the sheriffs are hung up on releasing mental health records, saying that it could be june before the law takes effect....

oh, and stay away from those rifle team women...:D

[Andrew Rothman]

"The best way to handle any potentially injurious encounter is: Don't be there. Arrange to be somewhere else. Don't go to stupid places. Don't associate with stupid people. Don't do stupid things."
John Farnam, Defense Training International, Inc.
http://www.defense-training.com/quips/19Mar03.html

If you're worried that a party might cause you to need to draw, don't go.

If you're not, pack with confidence.

[Black92LX]

i'll assume you're talking about XU and norwood... great place isn't it???

that;s it. though norwood really isn't the problem. it's all the thugs coming over from Evanston. Campus is pretty much smashed between norwood and evanston. two great places to live:rolleyes:

[cookhj]

when i was at VMI, we shot against XU's rifle team at XU. i don't know how you go to school there. i was uneasy walking around during the day time!

[Black92LX]

it's amazing how much this area has changed. it used to be such a nice area of town 30 years ago. but now you have this prestigous school that is always ranked high n all the polls straight in the middle of two little hellhole cities.

how many years ago were you here??

[Bill Hook]

I'd carry if I went to Xavier. Perhaps you should have all the parties at your place, then invite the girls to stay, rather than walk home in such a dangerous neighborhood. ;)


I don't think Norwood was ever "nice," only a good deal better than it is today. Perhaps like St. Bernard.

[Ukraine Train]

I visited some friends at XU last fall, I'd pack there for sure. Saying that you shouldn't go to parties there due to crime is unreasonable, though, IMO. Parties are what make college fun lol. My school is a similar situation. It's in Flint, MI and I usually find myself walking to/from parties with friends in the dead of night where A LOT of houses and cars get broken into.

[Drjones]

My initial reaction is to say "of course!"

But then you have to take into account our corrupt legal system and society of sheep.

Taking that into account, I must say; if you are expecting trouble, why are you even there in the first place?

However, I do not think that we should have to alter our lives according to what trouble we think we may encounter. If you want to go somewhere, go there darnit! If you want to be armed, be! If you encounter trouble, act accordingly.

[clubsoda22]

i've had this discussion. I go to a widener university in chester, a mice midpoint for drug trafficing between wilmington and philly. Lot's of rich white kids in a poor black neighborhood. campus bans guns in their buildings, so we are unarmed. We have muggings all the time. I mentioned CCW as a solution to muggings here and was overheard by a campus safety officer and had my room searched at 2:30AM. I'm 18 so i don't carry, but when i'm 21 i will have a licence to carry and plan to. The penalty for having a gun on campus is suspension or expulsion, there are no legal problems. The way i look at it, with all the muggings on campus, may of which end in injury and involve guns being pulled, i'd feel safer carrying. The only way they will ever know i'm carrying is if i have to use it. If i have to use it, the last thing on my mind wil be getting kicked out of school. Better finishing my degree at another university than ending up dead.

Simplue solution: if you carry and don't want people to know, use deep cover and don't talk about it. Also, don't drink and avoid trouble. Personally, i don't go to parties and by the time i turn 21 i expect to be living a shorty walk off campus.

[t-stox]

Unless your truly worried about being jumped after the party on the way somewhere brother, DONT DO IT!!! If someone starts sh*t with you what you gonna do? shoot him? Even if you don't drink others will and sh*t could start. If you can't defend youself without a gun what good are you anyway?? I mean this in the case of a bar room brawl not in cases of mugging or whatever. Alcohol and guns don't mix, and if enough incidents happen the gov't will ban CCW soon enough. In fact most "gun deaths" involve some substances as well. Dont give the anti's an excuse!



P.S. if your concerned about getting into fights at partys or bars and don't want to fist fight you might consider using "non-lethal" stuff like pepper spray or mace or even a replica gun that way you'll just scare them off.

[clubsoda22]

I can't believe i forgot to mention this, but, i am completely substance free. This includes all illegal drugs as well as most of the legal ones. For instance, i don't smoke tobacco and very rarely use alcohol and when i do it's always in a safe environment, around people i know and in moderation. I don't even take prescription pain killers when my doc writes me a script for them. I generally don't attend parties, especially not the frat parties that hapen here on campus, unless i'm asked by a female to escort them (as there have been several instances of sexual assault at these parties). If you remember the scene from the bodyguard where kevin cosner is drinking straight orange juice at the party....that's usually me. I usually carry non-lethal idiot repellant in the form of Fox Labs 2% OC spray and have never had the occasion to use it as i have talked my way out of all but two encounters in my life--in both of which i was being actively attacked--though i wouldn't have drawn a gun, or even pepper spray in either. As a note, technically i'm not even allowed to have pepper spray on campus under the same policy that forbids firearms.

You should make a decision on my opinions based on the above information.

Note to t-stox: replica gun is a VERY bad idea. If you're gonna pull out something that looks like a gun, it better be able to fire bullets and you better have a good reason for doing it.

[Stinkyshoe]

This is a good thread. I admire you for being a gentleman and walking the drunks home, but shouldn't they learn to be responsible for their self inflicted condition?

Also this notion of carrying a gun and having to pull just because someone wants to fight or get rough. If someone pulls a gun of knife or club or some weapon...by all means defend yourself. If they are just getting mouthy and throw a few punches, disfuse the situation and back away. I guess if a drunk guy just wants to fist fight, I wouldn't be to worried. I hope that the gun isn't the only way you know to defend yourself.

Carry proud and responsible....atleast you get to carry in your state :cuss:

[clubsoda22]

I admire you for being a gentleman and walking the drunks home, but shouldn't they learn to be responsible for their self inflicted condition?

Not so much walking them home as watching out for them for the duration of a party. Many of the sexual assaults aren't because the got completely wasted and passed out on a frat guys bed, girls have been surrounded buy numerous males and verbally intemidated an propositioned. These guys are almost without exception pussies and take no more than a "leave her alone" to send them packing. Others instances have involved "date rape" drugs being slipped into their beverages. Optimally I'll catch the guy in the act, otherwise, i can recognize the symptoms. It's kinda handy having an E.M.T. covering your 6 if you pass out, and even handier having a 6'0" 230lb guy around if one of the frat guys then decides to try and drag you into their bedroom. I however keep it as my policy to not intervene if they get "girls-gone-wild" syndrome and start lifting their shirt and making out with every frat guy they see, in that case, it's their mistake to make. Same goes if they pop ecstacy and start sliding their hands down everyones pants. I make sure that they are not taken advantage of when they are unable to resist, not when the are unwilling to resist.

As far as drunks wanting to fight, most of the time they end up dropping themselves with a wild swing before you even have to do anything but step back or duck.

[Model520Fan]

What if you find yourself in a situation where it isn't the gangstas confronting you, but a bunch of drunken jocks?

All too often, there's a certain population of college students--particularly athletes, though not exclusively--who've grown up shielded by their parents' money and been brought up thinking that the sun shines out their nether orifice, and that anything they do is going to bring them no or negligible consequences. They can be even more dangerous, since a gangsta usually knows what a gun can do, while Mr. Young-Spoiled-&-Stupid just can't believe you'd actually hurt him. (Let's just say I've seen that mentality at work and leave it at that...I ain't admittin' to nothing! )

It's fine to recognize an obvious threat, and be prepared to meet that threat. But focusing on that one set of circumstances to the exclusion of all else can't be good. If you've ascertained that you can carry where you need to without going to the pokey, then cool, strap it on. I'm just hoping you think about different possible scenarios and the fact that justice ain't necessarily blind when it comes to certain classes of people.


So, if this situation comes up, should he forget about the gun, because they're preppy jocks? Or should he have not been carrying it in the first place, because he might come up against preppy jocks instead of "gangstas?" What if he can't walk a date home without a chance of landing in the pokey? What do you think he should do in that case?

[Diggler]

Black92LX,

You should have told her that she forgot to check to see if you were using a SmartCarry.

:evil:

[Black92LX]

I admire you for being a gentleman and walking the drunks home, but shouldn't they learn to be responsible for their self inflicted condition?
on this campus i wouldn't let a group of 7 compleltely sober girls walk home by themselves in the dark!

I feel very uncomfortable if i am with a couple other guys walking after dark.

[clubsoda22]

So, if this situation comes up, should he forget about the gun, because they're preppy jocks? Or should he have not been carrying it in the first place, because he might come up against preppy jocks instead of "gangstas?" What if he can't walk a date home without a chance of landing in the pokey? What do you think he should do in that case?

I pretty much agree with you. This is the reason why it is vitally important to carry non-lethal attitude adjustment. That way, if one of these drunken morons starts giving crap and decides he want's kick your but, you can pull something other than your piece. I like pepper spray. If you draw a gun and he goes "what are you gonna do, shoot me?" and continues to advance, it's gonna be a hard call to pull the trigger on someone you know is unarmed and is simply under the influence. If you pull a can of pepper spray and tell him to back off and he goes "what are you gonna do, mace me?" you can say "yes" and teach his dumb, drunk a$$ a lesson. Fog him, kick him to the ground and walk away. If he's got three buddies, fog all of them. Use the entire can and RUN. Call the police, tell them there's four drunk aryan-youth-looking guys in white polo shirts that tried to attack you and they should be readily identifiable by the UV marker dye.

Aside fron having to fight it out, drunks can generally be walked away from, avoiding the whole mess.

Then, when you're walking away and you run into a bunch of gangsta's who whip out a lead pipe and threaten to dust you, then you can use the gun.

[Sportcat]

One guy who carried on campus... http://wltx.com/sports/sports.asp?storyid=16116

Of course, this idiot pointed it at somebody. If I get more details I'll post them.

[SapperLeader]

Most of the college parties Ive been too have the goofy drunks, not too many of the mean drunks. If your worried about fellow party goers, I think clubsoda22 has a good idea about having oc spray in addition to your normal load out. I usually cut down on my pocket knives to one knife, carry my usual guns, and I may have to consider adding the oc spray myself for the less lethal option.

[clubsoda22]

Most of the time OC isn't even needed with drunks. They usually take care of themselves weather it be stumbling over their own feet or loosing their balance with a wild swing.

[Gus Dddysgrl]

I've carried on campus and in class. I don't really go to parties so I don't know what I do. When I did go to a party once or twice I wasn't that into carrying yet so it didn't cross my mind. I wish I had been carrying sometimes. It would have given me more confidence when walking back to my car or where ever I was going.

I never drank since I didn't really like anything they had there. I do not smoke or do drugs so that's no worry. If I were you I'd carry when you can. Good for you and you're new "friend". ;) Hope it all works out. :)

[clubsoda22]

where do you go to school gus?

[Gus Dddysgrl]

Mil Vil also known as
MU also known as
Millersville University

Go Marauders!!!!!!!

[HankB]

If there was an optional social occasion - like a party - that, for whatever reason, (bad part of town, bad guests, too many aggressive drunks, dopers, etc.) made me think beforehand that I was really likely to need a gun for my safety . . . well, I simply wouldn't go.

If none of the above applied, but somewhere along the line things started getting out of hand - dopers light up, drunks that aren't mellow - I'd leave early.

I have a CHL and practice regularly, but given a choice, I would much rather avoid trouble than have to deal with it.

As far as carrying on campus . . . well, I would pay attention to what the law says.

As far as school rules go . . . well, I was never altogether religious about mere rules of any type . . . I was just careful not to get caught. ;)

[clubsoda22]

Hank, i'd rather have a party filled with dopers than drunks. I've never seen a violent pothead.

[Gus Dddysgrl]

Concealed means concealed. I don't know the rules, but I will carry anyways since I'm good at acting cute; if I am caught I can get out of trouble. Heehee :neener: :D

If I recall correctly the law around here doesn't say anything about college campuses, but it's up to the school.

[Sportcat]

I don't know the rules, but I will carry anyways since I'm good at acting cute; if I am caught I can get out of trouble. Heehee

Just what the anti's want to hear :rolleyes:

[The Undertoad]

Timely thread, as I turn 21 next month. :D

At my college it is not illegal to carry but it is against school policy. I have to store my rifles off campus at a friend's apartment :banghead: I'll be moving off campus next semester for DAMN sure.

Even in a smaller town like Williamsburg we get crap sometimes. Marines love to come to our frat parties (yes, I'm in a frat, but we're good guys) and gang up on individuals. An alum got the crap kicked out of him by 4 Marines last year. He's a tough guy but is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu trained and took the first guy to the ground...the others promptly had a boot party. :( (And I know there are plenty of good soldiers out there, about half my friends are military or ROTC). Most of the fights and trouble I've seen on campus are actually due to non-students.

I carry a knife at all times. Mostly as a tool, but I guess it could be used as a weapon if circumstances dictated. Never regretted it. Never had to show or use it in violence either. The one time I was in a situation, my friend and I got out by using Sneaker Fu and quick wits.

Sorry for getting off topic. But yeah, even in smaller towns there can be problems. I have friends who carry here on campus and I know they aren't alone. Went to a school-sponsored gun control debate last semester. The anti's got their asses handed to them but were too smug and entrenched to realize it. :barf:

[BHPshooter]

I'm in Utah... they don't have college parties here.

Just curious, but what college do you attend, George?

They sure do at USU. I haven't been to any but the school-run parties, but even those are so huge (over 25,000 people at their halloween party) that drugs and alcohol make an appearance. And that's just in the last few years, after USU became a "dry campus."

I'd wager that I saw nearly as many people drunk last year at school as I would have if it were still a "party campus."

Black92LX, If you're not drinking, I'd carry. Of course, like you said, the need isn't at the party, it's after the party. I'd have some OC spray for the party, just in case...

Clubsoda22 said it best when he said that he will defend those unable to defend themselves, not those who are unwilling.

Just be sure that you don't get made... It sounds like a ladyfriend of yours would have come dangerously close! :D

That said, it sure is funny to watch drunk people, isn't it? :evil:

Wes

[Bill Hook]

They don't at BYU.

[Drjones]

Hank, i'd rather have a party filled with dopers than drunks. I've never seen a violent pothead.

You've never hidden food from a pothead, have you?



:D :D :D

[cidirkona]

I carry where ever and when ever legally possible.
-Colin

[Samurai Penguin]

I pretty much agree with you. This is the reason why it is vitally important to carry non-lethal attitude adjustment....If you pull a can of pepper spray and tell him to back off and he goes "what are you gonna do, mace me?" you can say "yes" and teach his dumb, drunk a$$ a lesson.

Then, when you're walking away and you run into a bunch of gangsta's who whip out a lead pipe and threaten to dust you, then you can use the gun.

BINGO. :D

Aside fron having to fight it out, drunks can generally be walked away from, avoiding the whole mess.

Usually. It's only a problem when you get the ones who are drunk enough to be aggressive, but not drunk enough to be too uncoordinated. Those are the dangerous ones. At that point, Sneaker Fu if you can, non-lethal if you can't, or...well, I'd hate to have to go there, and I'm sure we all feel similarly.

[clubsoda22]

Usually. It's only a problem when you get the ones who are drunk enough to be aggressive, but not drunk enough to be too uncoordinated. Those are the dangerous ones.

Even if they're not uncoordinated, their reaction time is still slowed. Basically what i'm saying is that no matter how drunk you are, a kick to to balls will drop em short of pepper spray. However, i do like pepper spray for one other reason. If you have to get the cops involved, it will be very easy to pick out the guys involved from the crowd with a blacklight. UV marker dye = caught red handed...or purple faced rather.

Clubsoda22 said it best when he said that he will defend those unable to defend themselves, not those who are unwilling.

Words to live by. Here's the kicker though. Say i see two girls obviously (as in weapon is out and a lot of yelling, maybe someone on the ground) getting mugged outside the library, do i intervene? No, because i'm legally disarmed by the state for another 2 years. I'm not rushing a mugger with a can of mace and a pocket knife. I can take care of moron frat boys, but the criminal element in this town is another story.

The real test is that when i am legally able to carry, would i risk suspension or expulsion in the same scenario (this would be clearly an act in defence of another)? The answer is yes. If they wanted to kick me out of school for it, there would be little i could legally do to stop them as i obviously willingly violated the policy, however the power of the media is what i would use. If i have two people talking to fox, cbs, abc, nbc news saying "he saved our lives and they crucified him for it." Have friends launch editorials to every major and small town newspaper in the state and surrounding states. Use my clout at the campus radio station to get a message read every hour and possibly also influence other radio stations in the area. How's it gonna look when the university kicks out one of their community service leaders for saving two innocents from the hands of a derranged lunatic?

[Ala Dan]

yes, but only a very attractive female! ;) :cool:

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[cookhj]

let's see, i was at XU either in late '97 or early '98 i believe.

[Kharn]

I definitely wouldnt carry a gun at a college party. Too many chances for something to happen, and you'd look really bad in the cops eyes if/when they show up to break up the party and find out you're packing.

I carry my two knives (CRKT M16-12Z for heavy-duty stuff, and a CRKT KISS for when I dont want to alarm anyone with the M16, my coworkers didnt like the M16 one time I popped it out) 24/7, clipped to the insides of my pockets (the pocket clips are visible, but the tops are covered by my shirt), while at a party on Sunday night (first night back in the dorms, I'm not THAT much of a drinker :D ) one of my group was sitting down about 2' from where I was standing. After we'd each had a few beers, he just reached over and pulled the KISS out of my pocket, which I immediately noticed and reacted to by (non-violently & discretely, nobody else noticed what was going on) grabbing the knife and the two/three fingers he was holding it with (he hadnt opened the blade, he was trying to figure out what it was, as the pocket clip is much larger than the M16's) until he let go.

Now the KISS has a lanyard run through the keyring hole, which is then attached to my keys (which are clipped to my pants). If I hadnt been talking to our mutual friend (who was sitting next to the first guy), I might not have noticed the knife grab. :eek:

Kharn

[BHPshooter]

Words to live by. Here's the kicker though. Say i see two girls obviously (as in weapon is out and a lot of yelling, maybe someone on the ground) getting mugged outside the library, do i intervene? No, because i'm legally disarmed by the state for another 2 years. I'm not rushing a mugger with a can of mace and a pocket knife. I can take care of moron frat boys, but the criminal element in this town is another story.

I'm with ya, I can't get my permit for another 10 months. :mad:

I can see what you're saying about not rushing in with mace and a knife.I guess it all depends on circumstances, though. If I knew that they truly needed help, I'd have to do it.

The real test is that when i am legally able to carry, would i risk suspension or expulsion in the same scenario...?

Or even jail or death, for that matter.

If suspension, expulsion, and jail were the options, then I'd still go for it. I mean, it's the right thing, damn it, regardless of what Big Brother says. Death... well, you've gotta die of something. I'd rather die with my spurs on, to tell the truth.

There's a major "rule of invisible positives" thing going on nowadays, reinforced by the media. People only see evil, crime, and corruption, but never see people doing something good for their fellow man. This is also reinforced by the fact that doing the right thing often has a harsher penalty than the BG will ever see.

Well, I'm unashamed to say that I'd jump in if I were truly needed, and I'd kill the cretin if I had the chance. It's time we made violent crime a hazardous career path. Since the Justice system won't, I guess it's up to us.

Sorry, I didn't mean to rant. :o

Wes

[gulogulo1970]

No.

Carrying around young, drunken students that might want to start a fight is not a good idea. I've seen too many drunken brawls.

Now, carrying around young, stoned students...well you don't need a concealed weapon. Maybe a concealed bag of chips. I've never seen a stoned person start a fight.

[VNgo]

I don't carry a gun on campus because it's against Caltech's rules and would get me expelled, but I do carry a knife. Or a full-length sword, if it's one of the house parties -- those are usually costume parties, and no one has to know it's a live steel blade.

[cidirkona]

I called an officer to ask him if it was ok to unload and lock my CCW pistol in my car if I parked on campus and he said "Yup, just make sure it's out of sight so someone doesn't try to steal it and that it's unloaded so you're not responsible for anyone using it if they do get ahold of it. If you feel you need to carry in class, be sure it's concealed well, because the very sight of it could cause problems for those uncomfortable around firearms."

"Umm... I wasn't even thinking about carrying in class..."

"Good idea."

"Ok, thanks officer, you've been helpful!"

I carry a 3.9" knive everywhere else but court houses and airplanes. In Arizona only a 4" and longer knife is a weapon, anything less than that is a box cutter and not a weapon until used as a weapon. I'm thinking about getting myself a 3" knife because 3.9" still looks pretty close to 4". Everywhere else besides bars, restaurants that serve alchohol, and government buildings I carry the 3.9" and the .380". :D

-Colin

[ny32182]

So some of you guys are talking about carrying while:

1)Underage
2)On campus (I assume forbidden by at least school rules, and in my case, state law.. its a felony to have a gun on campus)
3)At a drunken party...

That really is asking for trouble, BIG time. Hell, thats asking for major prosecution/expulsion even if you DON'T pull a gun, if someone sees it. Whats more important to you guys, going to parties with a gun (and it seems, no intention of partying anyway) or graduating without landing in federally subsidized housing for a while, and losing your right to ever own a gun again? And thats if you DON'T shoot somebody. Sheesh...

I was thinking of a situation where you are of age, have a permit, and are at an off campus location... where it would at least be legal to carry, but would still be a very bad idea.

[The Undertoad]

I was thinking of a situation where you are of age, have a permit, and are at an off campus location... where it would at least be legal to carry, but would still be a very bad idea.

I pretty much feel the same way... it is legal to carry here (with a CHL), just against school policy. Also can't have guns, explosives, ammo or toy guns in your room if you live on campus. :rolleyes: Gee, I feel safer already.

[Black92LX]

I was thinking of a situation where you are of age, have a permit, and are at an off campus location... where it would at least be legal to carry, but would still be a very bad idea.

that is the exact situation i am refering to!

[ny32182]

Yes, Black, I was looking at clubsoda and fumegator's descriptions of their situations... In which it seems to be even way less of a good idea than in does in yours, IMO...

Of course everyone is gonna do what they're gonna do. Best of luck.

[BHPshooter]

Yes, Black, I was looking at clubsoda and fumegator's descriptions of their situations... In which it seems to be even way less of a good idea than in does in yours, IMO...

Maybe you'd better actually read my post. :scrutiny:

:scrutiny: Where in my post did I say, "I'm going to carry a gun on campus, even though the only time I've been on campus I was underage, didn't have a licence, or even own a handgun!" :scrutiny: My post was about helping people who were under attack, with my bare hands if necessary. Yeah, it was not 100% on-topic.

If you can't do hypothetical discussion, don't come down on those who can. I stand by what I've said many times before -- I don't carry a gun, and I don't advocate carrying one without a permit to anyone.

:rolleyes: Wes

[Obiwan]

Only if I were a woman.....

Then I could get totally stinkin drunk and shoot some guy and claim he was raping me.:D

[Drjones]

Then I could get totally stinkin drunk and shoot some guy and claim he was raping me

The sad thing is that you wouldn't get charged with anything and would actually have a parade thrown in your honor.




:cuss: :cuss:

[Kharn]

Obiwan:
:scrutiny: Huh? :scrutiny:

Kharn

[clubsoda22]

Yes, Black, I was looking at clubsoda and fumegator's descriptions of their situations... In which it seems to be even way less of a good idea than in does in yours, IMO...

When did we ever suggest carrying underage? This is the second time some brain-doner on this board has accused me of this. I bitch and moan that i can't carry for another two years, but i specifically state in nearly all of my posts that i do not carry. :rolleyes:

In my state there are no laws against carrying on a college campus, only primary and secondary schools. I never stated that i carry to college parties A)because i don't carry B)because i don't party.

I assure you i am still the most law abiding member of this board.

Now, back to my chat with fumegator.

As for jail and death. Jail is not much of a possibility given my clear description of the scenario (obvious mugging with weapons drawn). Would i put my life on the line for others? I believe the answer lies in my extra cirricular activities. Every so often (pretty much every week) i strap on a bulletproof vest and run EMS in this crack house infested neighborhood and they don't even pay me to do that! answer your question? Maybe i'm to theological for your tastes, but in my religion saving anothers life is the equivalent to saving an entire world. The way i look at it, if it costs me my life, i know there's a spot for me in heaven. However, to hopefully avoid this, i do a lot of practicing with my chosen weapon.

[SapperLeader]

I dont think any of the college students posting in this thread are advocating under age carry. Both clubsoda22 and fumegator have said they are underage and dont carry, and a few like myself are of age and do carry.
When I said I do carry at a college party I was thinking more of a small gathering of under 1-2 dozen, not a frat house kegger with hundreds. The only time Im unarmed are in areas my state deems its illegal for me to carry, and in my state universities are not one of them. School is one of those places I want to be armed most, and I go to a nice school.
Heck, ive almost been mugged twice on my school, and im not exactly a soft looking target. I figure if Im 5'11, 185, buzzed head, and very military looking, and ive had a couple close encounters, im definitly carrying, and providing a escort for female friends and any guys that want to tag along too for the long walks back to the parking lots. Concealed means concealed, and if your not drinking, and not getting in to a ruckus for the sake of it, its your descision, and be smart about it.

[zahc]

Here's another underage non-person who doesn't carry.

[ny32182]

You're college students, in a thread about carrying at college parties, talking about going to said parties just for the sake of... defending people, and the possible consequences from getting in a lethal fight: jail, death, etc. The assumption, in this thread specifically, is that you mean to do so with a gun. Otherwise, your chances of a fight turning lethal are pretty damn small, and you're posting in the wrong thread anyway. I doubt I was the only one that made that assumption, given the circumstances.:rolleyes:

[Black92LX]

talking about going to said parties just for the sake of... defending people

actually i have better things to do than to go to parties just so i can defend people or walk them home. i go to these parties because i like to hang with friends and just relax. no i usually don't drink, but i am not the only one. i am one of the partiers not just a defender.

lets put it in this into a perspective. lets say you are going to a new years eve party with a bunch of 30-40 year olds that will be drinking all night. you know you are not going to drink but still enjoy the company of these folks. unfotunatly this party is in a bad neighborhood, and you have to walk a few blocks to get back to your car. would you carry then?

[ny32182]

Yes... because: a party where the average age is 30-40 is totally different from a party where the average age is 20-22. Its a different, much less volatile environment. In my experience.

[cidirkona]

In either case, I wouldn't stay too long after I found out a party or the partiers were 'volatile.' I also usually don't go to parties where I dont' know at least half of the people there well.

"I don't avoid conflict, only violence." -Someone I forget the name of...

-Colin

[BHPshooter]

You're college students, in a thread about carrying at college parties, talking about going to said parties just for the sake of... defending people, and the possible consequences from getting in a lethal fight: jail, death, etc. The assumption, in this thread specifically, is that you mean to do so with a gun.

I have trouble coming to the same "assumption." However, that's just a difference of perspective, I guess.

Let me make it clear, once and for all: I don't drink, I don't party, and I rarely attend such. The only reason I have ever gone is purely for socialization.

Is there any reason that a person who isn't drinking, is not wild, and otherwise stays away from any avoidable confrontation should waive their right to self defense? If I happen to be there, should I not defend anyone who is an innocent?

This is all purely hypothetical, just like before. It's all a big IF, so I don't understand why you're getting razzled.

Jail is not much of a possibility given my clear description of the scenario (obvious mugging with weapons drawn).

That's true, given any rightheaded justice system, but I wouldn't be so secure about it in someplace like NYC or San Francisco.

Every so often (pretty much every week) i strap on a bulletproof vest and run EMS in this crack house infested neighborhood and they don't even pay me to do that!

:eek: :eek: Geez... I hope your major turns into a high paying career, with those kind of risks.

answer your question? Maybe i'm to theological for your tastes, but in my religion saving anothers life is the equivalent to saving an entire world. The way i look at it, if it costs me my life, i know there's a spot for me in heaven. However, to hopefully avoid this, i do a lot of practicing with my chosen weapon.

Precisely what I'm saying, you just took it one step further. I don't want to assume that solely saving a person's life will guarantee me occupancy in heaven, but what I meant was that I would do it because it's the right thing. If I die, no biggie -- I was doing the right thing. Ending up in heaven would be icing. ;)

Of course, I'd rather live to run away another day. :D

I'm glad to see someone sees it like I do. ;)

Wes

[cidirkona]

Thefumegator wrote:
I don't want to assume that solely saving a person's life will guarantee me occupancy in heaven,

Oh, it won't, John 3:16,17 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=JOHN+3&language=english&version=NIV) could give you alittle insight on that one though. ;)

A quick mind, some kind words and well tied shoes will help with much less hassle before a weapon will - but if the first three fail...

-Colin

[cracked butt]

I would say no to carrying to a party.

I lived in a fraternity house while in college.

We had alot of parties.

I had to forcefully remove someone from the premises once- he attemted to sexually assault my girlfriend a week earlier and I made it clear to him that he was not welcome in the house anymore.

We had exactly one fight at a party: A freshman who happened to be a stud hockey player started making remarks to a tall scandinavian farmgirl about her sexuality because she played on the woman's rugby team. She picked him up, body slammed him, kneeled on his chest and pummelled him to a pulp. Noone was able to pull her off him, because we were laughing so damn hard.:evil:

Most people who go to college house parties are there for a good time, in my town, there was always two or three big bruisers like myself who stayed sober until all of the guests left, for "risk management" purposes.


Biggest problems come in taverns especially in college towns. You often run into peolple with a chip on their shoulder who are itching for a fight and alcohol doesn't seem to temper them much either. Worse yet, if someone who is looking for a fight is somehow offended by you or sees you as weak, might follow you home and attack you away from the crowd- seen it happen to a few people. I've been in a few brief fights in taverns while in college- always a drunk guy starting a fight with one of my friends- one guy who started a fight was even a bouncer at the bar who I sent to the emergency room to get half of his ear stitched back on after he sucker punched my friend.:fire: But carrying to a tavern and having to use it after having a few drinks almost seems like a no win situation. Sometimes its handy just to learn to fight real dirty.

[clubsoda22]

You're college students, in a thread about carrying at college parties, talking about going to said parties just for the sake of... defending people

Hold on just a second, you make it sound as if i'm a vigilante. THe only time i go to parties is when a female asks me to come as a friend just to watch her back because the walk to and from the parties are hazardous and if she get's liquored up it's comforting to know i'm around to make sure she dosn't get into any trouble.

and the possible consequences from getting in a lethal fight: jail, death, etc. The assumption, in this thread specifically, is that you mean to do so with a gun. Otherwise, your chances of a fight turning lethal are pretty damn small, and you're posting in the wrong thread anyway. I doubt I was the only one that made that assumption, given the circumstances.

Yep, with a gun, when it's legal for us to do so.

Back to the convo. Basically, i'm not a very religious person, though i find the thought of an afterlife comforting. If there is no afterlife and we simply rot in the ground, then i can still be comforted in the fact that others would understand an know that i did the right thing.

[Obiwan]

Sorry Kharn....Colorado joke.

We have some ladies who are trying to bring federal charges against the university because they were supposedly raped at a party for prospective football players.

What it sounds more and more like is that they were smashed and woke up feeling like maybe they made bad choices....like when they handed out condoms to the players!

Of course, saying that gets you branded as some heartless jerk....even if you are a woman.

Evidently drunk women are not supposed to be in control of themselves but drunk men are.....go figure!

One of the people investigating tha allegation asked why these young ladies were getting hammered with the jocks and has been villified by the NOW hags as not having compassion.

Even the DA was not willing to pursue this...hence the federal court route.